Roy Bailey returns his MBE

Subject: RE: Roy Bailey returns his MBE
From: Andy Jackson
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 12:40 PM

To seperate Folk Song from politics...
Listen with your heart and an open mind.

Politics and religion between them cause most of the worlds grief. We would be better of without either of them.

Subject: RE: Roy Bailey returns his MBE
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 10:21 AM

You can't separate politics and folk song.

eric

Subject: RE: Roy Bailey returns his MBE
From: GUEST,padgett
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 05:25 AM

I think we are talking politics not folk music here

Ray

Subject: RE: Roy Bailey returns his MBE
From: GUEST,des
Date: 03 Sep 06 - 10:33 AM

and Prince Charles and unto Roy Bailey this is your MBE for folk singing but whatt do you sing about about and roy replied the overthrow of the ruling class !

but congratulations for adding to the Blair must go campaign i dont want a Cameron government either

Subject: RE: Roy Bailey returns his MBE
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 01 Sep 06 - 02:09 PM

Tony Benn
Jeremy Dear (NUJ)
Alice Mahon
Dave McCall (TGWU)
John McDonnell MP

Am I mistaken or are these not members of the Labour Party?

Subject: RE: Roy Bailey returns his MBE
From: VIN
Date: 01 Sep 06 - 08:34 AM

I recall the last verse in the Old Man's Song:

We're living on a pension now that doesn't go too far
Not much to show for a life that seems like one long bloody war
When you think of all the wasted lives, it makes you want to cry
I'm not sure how to change things,
But BY CHRIST we have to try!

Anyone in/aroung Manchester, England area check this out.......

Challenging for Labour's Future

The Mechanics Institute
103 Princess Street,
Manchester, M1 6DD

Manchester
Thursday 7th September 2006
7.30pm


Speakers include:
Tony Benn
Jeremy Dear (NUJ)
Alice Mahon
Dave McCall (TGWU)
John McDonnell MP

For more details, please email [e-mail] or ring [phone]

Subject: RE: Roy Bailey returns his MBE
From: squeezeboxhp
Date: 31 Aug 06 - 04:03 PM

ray
i am sure Roy Bailey knows you and your mate JB.you both deserve some recognition but will probably not get it,
i am unlikely ever to be close to the politics of Roy or Tony but can appreciate their feelings
but remember this is a folk related thread not political and the man does what he feels to feel good with himself. OK by me

Subject: RE: Roy Bailey returns his MBE
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 31 Aug 06 - 01:07 PM

The fiddle player from the Elastic Band was charged with committing rubbery with violins!

Subject: RE: Roy Bailey returns his MBE
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 31 Aug 06 - 12:04 PM

robbery involves violence or trespass

Subject: RE: Roy Bailey returns his MBE
From: Scrump
Date: 31 Aug 06 - 10:56 AM

What's the dirrerence between "robbery" and "theft"?

I'll get me coat...

...agh! it's bin nicked!

Subject: RE: Roy Bailey returns his MBE
From: Paul Burke
Date: 31 Aug 06 - 10:54 AM

What's the difference between property and theft?

Subject: RE: Roy Bailey returns his MBE
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 31 Aug 06 - 10:51 AM

I take it you're referring to this Roy Bailey?

Sorry, being an American, I didn't recognize him.

Subject: RE: Roy Bailey returns his MBE
From: Ringer
Date: 31 Aug 06 - 10:41 AM

What's the difference between "redistribution of wealth" and theft?

Subject: RE: Roy Bailey returns his MBE
From: GUEST,padgett
Date: 31 Aug 06 - 09:59 AM

Guest The Queen is us, that is our Sovereign we the people

Roy was given the MBE by the Queen for us [the people] in recognition of his services to Folk music

We do not have an elected Queen unlike other countries where they call them The President

Our Queen is in theory non political

I do know Roy Bailey but dont think he knows me ~ which can be unfortunate for him [wont go into that one]

Ray

Subject: RE: Roy Bailey returns his MBE
From: MBSGeorge
Date: 31 Aug 06 - 06:56 AM

I wouldn't know Roy Bailey if I passed him in the street but I know OF Roy Bailey and imagine there are a lot of people who know OF him but haven't seen him.

I think he can hold his head up high that he's sticking to his principals.

George

Subject: RE: Roy Bailey returns his MBE
From: GUEST,jOhn
Date: 31 Aug 06 - 06:45 AM

if he dident want it, he should of sent it to Frankie Dettorie, hes just had his nicked.

Subject: RE: Roy Bailey returns his MBE
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 31 Aug 06 - 06:25 AM

New Labour and Socialism make strange bedfellows though Freda!
G.

Subject: RE: Roy Bailey returns his MBE
From: freda underhill
Date: 31 Aug 06 - 06:11 AM

Giok

from my reading of Roy Bailey's statement, I don't think it was done in attempt to influence the way anyone else thinks. I think he just didn't feel right, and had to give it back, in order to feel okay about himself again.

It's good to be able to sleep at night


freda

Subject: RE: Roy Bailey returns his MBE
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 31 Aug 06 - 05:51 AM

Well said VIN, well said Giok.

Subject: RE: Roy Bailey returns his MBE
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 31 Aug 06 - 05:28 AM

This has wandered a long way from the subject, but then thread creep is not unknown on Mudcat.
I think that some of the curmudgeonly remarks expressed here, and often 'amazingly' by people called Guest. I bet it wasn't Roy Guest!
The awarding of an honour is recognition for work done, and services rendered, what it's called is irrelevant, as are the comments made about that name.
The returning of said honour is a deeply symbolic act, and is an indication not of the paucity of that honour, but of the deep sense of betrayal felt by the recipient.
The only fear I have is that this gesture will be in vain, as Tony Blair in particular, and New Labour in general are deaf to the protestations of their supporters, and will remain so until the approach of the next election.
Cynical moi?
Giok

Subject: RE: Roy Bailey returns his MBE
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Aug 06 - 05:02 AM

Scrump,

Gordon's so called stealth taxes have made it possible to spend more on health and education than would otherwise be possible.

I have canvassed for 30 odd years on policies of tax and spend, we failed to carry the argumnet and we were kept from power until Blair promised something.

Yes, we all know the war was wrong, most of the Labour Party agree.

Subject: RE: Roy Bailey returns his MBE
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Aug 06 - 04:57 AM

According to fiddler, Roy has always been political. Why, then, did he accept such a ridiculous honour 'Member of the British Empire' from an unelected head of state, the Queen?

Subject: RE: Roy Bailey returns his MBE
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 30 Aug 06 - 12:16 PM

"I think the best chance, however slight, for the redistribution of power and wealth is through the Labour Party, not through posts and demos"

This is my point. What is yours?

Subject: RE: Roy Bailey returns his MBE
From: Scrump
Date: 30 Aug 06 - 10:53 AM

GUEST wrote:
"I think the best chance, however slight, for the redistribution of power and wealth is through the Labour Party, not through posts and demos"

Well, they seem to have made a good job of redistributing most of the power and wealth amongst themselves, and b*gg*r the taxpayer.

Oops - did I just think that or say it out loud?

Subject: RE: Roy Bailey returns his MBE
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Aug 06 - 09:08 AM

As I have said above, much respect to Roy.

I simply restate my point - I think the best chance, however slight, for the redistribution of power and wealth is through the Labour Party, not through posts and demos.

Subject: RE: Roy Bailey returns his MBE
From: VIN
Date: 30 Aug 06 - 09:01 AM

Les in Chorlton, yes Labour did introduce the minimum wage which did take a lot of people to a higher level which shows how outrageous their pay must have been before. The minimum now is still not what you could call a 'living' wage; could even be said to be legalised poverty pay. The bosses of the supermarket chains are currently trying to get future rises to even this measly minimum curtailed as it hits their massive profits.

The anti labour laws passed down from the last Tory rabble to the current labour (tories in red clothing - thank you spot the dog)government will make sure that low paid workers will continue to 'benefit' from this low pay trap! What's this got to do with folk music? Well the history of labour struggles over the centuries is recorded in many, many folk (and contempory songs), well expounded by the likes of Roy Bailey.

Subject: RE: Roy Bailey returns his MBE
From: billybob
Date: 30 Aug 06 - 07:52 AM

I agree a letter to the Times signed Roy Bailey MBE may have more effect, however if Roy felt he had to give the MBE back good on him.My father was awarded the MBE in the 2000 honours list for many years service to the Royal Airforce Association, a charity to help ex servicemen who are elderly or facing hard times, he also has worked for 40 years for the talking newspaper for the blind. Not a political honour but recognition for years of service to the community.It was my proudest day to be at the Palace and see him presented to the Queen. Many other ordinary peop;e are honoured in this way, not pop stars or footballers or civil servants,but quiet non assuming folk who hide their good works with modesty. If the honours system continues let us hope that these are the people we continue to put forward, which is something we are all at liberty to do!

Subject: RE: Roy Bailey returns his MBE
From: GUEST,Floor Zit
Date: 30 Aug 06 - 07:03 AM

That bug*ers ANY chance of a knighthood for Martin Simpson then? ;-)

Subject: RE: Roy Bailey returns his MBE
From: GUEST,hugo
Date: 30 Aug 06 - 06:14 AM

good for roy!!
hugo

Subject: RE: Roy Bailey returns his MBE
From: fiddler
Date: 30 Aug 06 - 04:59 AM

Futile or not RB made a gesture, he can now live with his concience and presumably sleep well at night.

He earned the award and is expected to use it to further the work he is doing. Roy has always been very political this is a political gesture. I may not agree with all his politics but I have a hell of a respect for him and this is a fine political gesture, done in the furtherance of his work and beliefs and I support him for it.

I do also agree that when we follow the Spooky Mens suggestion and 'Vote the b*st*rds out' what we get to replace them will be very little better (if at all!).

Well done Roy!

Andy

Subject: RE: Roy Bailey returns his MBE
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Aug 06 - 04:41 AM

Lots of us were with T Benn in 1980s. Nobody much voted for us, we got 18 years of Tories and a lot of knocking and leafletting and the defeat of Neil, why was I the fisrt Kinnock............. to get back to power.

The Labour Party will re- organise and move on but just like last time it will take time.

Subject: RE: Roy Bailey returns his MBE
From: shepherdlass
Date: 29 Aug 06 - 05:06 PM

eric the red - You said worst ever Labour government but what's the alternative? A counter argument (borrowed from comedian Mark Thomas) is that it doesn't matter whether you're run over by a one-ton or a two-ton truck, you're still flattened. If New Labour (paltry minimum wage and all - trust me, I've lived on it) are an actual alternative to the Tories then I'm Tony Benn. Glad Roy Bailey's now noticed this.

Subject: RE: Roy Bailey returns his MBE
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 29 Aug 06 - 11:25 AM

minimum wage?

Subject: RE: Roy Bailey returns his MBE
From: Dave Wynn
Date: 29 Aug 06 - 10:46 AM

Handing the gong back will achieve nothing but personal satisfaction for Roy. This is good enough reason. It's his gong and he can do with it what he pleases.

Don't criticise this labour government. I am a Tory and they are persuing better Tory policy's than the Tory's could.

Spot the Dog

Subject: RE: Roy Bailey returns his MBE
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Aug 06 - 10:13 AM

That would be the T Benn who did so much to promote unity in the party in the 70s & 80?

A man who knows the answer to everything in general and nothing in particular?

Sorry, drifting off as ever. Total respect for Roy but since he accepted the award on the behalf of "the folk community" or some such thing, did he need to ask us how we feel?

But still I suspect most folkies support Roy.

Les

Subject: RE: Roy Bailey returns his MBE
From: VIN
Date: 29 Aug 06 - 09:01 AM

Nice one Roy. I think this is typical of Roy Bailey. He's a person who joined the Labour Party (not New Labour) as the Blairite hi-jackers now call it, which although wasn't perfect did have some definite social principles as laid out in the old clause 4 part 4. If all the PLP members had Roy's principles, then we would not perhaps have seen our representitive (Blair) strutting the world stage in our name refusing to condemn outright the genocide, slaughter and destruction that has occurred in Iraq and now Lebanon.

I believe Tony Benn has a plaque hanging in his office which reads:

Dare to be a Daniel,
Dare stand alone,
Dare have a purposr firm,
Dare let it known.

Wel done Roy Bailey!

Subject: RE: Roy Bailey returns his MBE
From: manitas_at_work
Date: 29 Aug 06 - 08:27 AM

Peace,

Why would Roy mention the Israelis? He is protesting against the UK government's actions in supporting the invasion of Iraq and not about Hamas' missile attacks on Israel or Israel's attacks on Hamas (and anyone else nearby).

Subject: RE: Roy Bailey returns his MBE
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Aug 06 - 05:33 AM

The alternative is for the Labour Party, with some attempt at dignity, to reacert its authority, change the leader and quite a few policies.
Les.

Subject: RE: Roy Bailey returns his MBE
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 29 Aug 06 - 03:59 AM

Worst Labour government in history, but what's the alternative ?

eric

[ and well done Roy ]

Subject: RE: Roy Bailey returns his MBE
From: The Badger
Date: 28 Aug 06 - 07:58 PM

He helped get them in, so it is only right he should help get them out!

Subject: RE: Roy Bailey returns his MBE
From: GUEST,Geoff P
Date: 28 Aug 06 - 12:06 PM

Well done Roy !!!!

Geoff

Subject: RE: Roy Bailey returns his MBE
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 28 Aug 06 - 10:58 AM

- it tends to make all folkies look woolly minded.

No, no this is a jest too far Drummer!

Subject: RE: Roy Bailey returns his MBE
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 28 Aug 06 - 09:54 AM

I don't think we are bombing people into accepting Christianity.

I think its valid what he did. John Lennon did something similar over Vietnam. Just wish he'd worded it more carefully - it tends to make all folkies look woolly minded.

Subject: RE: Roy Bailey returns his MBE
From: Flash Company
Date: 28 Aug 06 - 09:33 AM

A government that includes a prat who said during the debate on the licensing act that 'Three Folksingers singing in a bar is my idea of hell' is hardly going to be embarressed by Roy's gesture! My darlin' Sheila is wont to say when anyone criticises TB 'Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never harm me'.
It don't matter what anyone says or does, this government will continue on it's own foul way, and, regrettably, probably get re-elected. That is assuming they don't cancel the next election on security grounds!

FC

Subject: RE: Roy Bailey returns his MBE
From: GUEST,Cath
Date: 28 Aug 06 - 09:02 AM

Anybody can propose anyone else for an award for whatever they like - whether it is accepted or not is another matter.
Many years ago some of the regulars of the Folk Club at the Nook in Holmfirth put forward Angela Roberts who was licensee at the time. She didn't get an MBE or an OBE but she was invited to the palace along with David, her husband. Anyone who remembers David can imagine the scene.
Angela was absolutely delighted, they had a wonderful time and David was on his best behaviour.

Subject: RE: Roy Bailey returns his MBE
From: r.padgett
Date: 28 Aug 06 - 05:00 AM

Roy's MBE was for services to Folk music (I assume) proposed by Folk music people and accepted as such. This makes it an award given not by the government but by The Queen on behalf of the people of this country

Roy's political beliefs are not those of all of us (folkies) on every issue

I personally believe that the Rule of Law needs to come from the people of any country, and dictatorships and oppression cannot be tolerated

Such an act (to return his MBE) must be heart rendering and a very great gesture

When I started this I thought he was in err, and had sleighted the Folk Community, now I really dont know!!

Ray

Subject: RE: Roy Bailey returns his MBE
From: Betsy
Date: 28 Aug 06 - 03:54 AM

The award (I'm only summising) would have been proposed by someone(s) in the Labour Party (Democrats in the US ). The process is heavily vetted to ensure the individual does not have any skeletons in his cupboard. It is awarded in recognition of services to the NATION by the individual, from the people of Britain, and is not a wholly political award .
That Roy has seen fit to return it - is a personal choice and we need to respect it.
I would have thought, better to return it, on a point of principle concerning the reason he received it - Folk Music - if he was so moved.
After all, he didn't receive it for his political views.
There is an avenue of thought that says it would have been much better to have kept the award , and then his letters and thoughts may have carried more weight than us average Joes.
A letter to the Times signed by Roy Bailey M.B.E. DOES carry much more weight than signed simply Roy Bailey and certainly has more chance of being published.
Apologies to our overseas friends who may find this matter a little confusing,it is part of the British Class and Honours system, which which strangely enough, many Socialists feel comfortable in accepting, when bestowed upon them.
It's called an Honour,and it IS an honour to be recognised by your peer group as being that bit more special.
Keep singing your songs Roy, and pray to God that you never have to wrestle with some of the awful decisions which face senior politicians all over the REAL world.
They,like us, can't be correct ALL of the time.

Cheers,
Betsy

Subject: RE: Roy Bailey returns his MBE
From: DoctorJug
Date: 28 Aug 06 - 02:57 AM

I suppose if you're sleeping under tarps and using your dead neighbour's shop for a toilet it's some comfort to know that Mr. Bailey has handed back his gong.
Really, though, he's done what he can. Can we all say that?

Subject: RE: Roy Bailey returns his MBE
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 28 Aug 06 - 02:49 AM

Strange how these kind of threads bring out the best in people.

Subject: RE: Roy Bailey returns his MBE
From: GUEST,PJS
Date: 27 Aug 06 - 07:02 PM

"Just like you hide under a guest name who cares about what you think."
Yas


Scooby Doo? Yas?

- Maybe as many as care about anyone Else's on a forum.

PJS