Lyr Req: Four Little Johnny Cakes (Banjo Paterson)

Subject: whats the song called?
From: Forsh
Date: 30 Aug 06 - 07:20 PM

four little johnie cakes?
sitting on the stump, my little tea & sugar bag looking nice & plump
etc?

Subject: RE: whats the song called?
From: Forsh
Date: 30 Aug 06 - 07:27 PM

forget it..found it!

Subject: RE: whats the song called?
From: Snuffy
Date: 30 Aug 06 - 07:37 PM

Share it with us then

Subject: RE: whats the song called?-4 johnny cakes
From: Helen
Date: 31 Aug 06 - 12:32 AM

It's called Four Little Johnny Cakes and I first heard it sung by a 3-chord wonder who used to go to our regular Tuesday night sessions. According to that site it was written by Australian poet Andrew "Banjo" Paterson, and the site not only has the dots and lyrics but even a recipe for the Johnny Cakes.

Helen

Subject: RE: whats the song called?-four little johnny cakes
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 18 Sep 06 - 03:17 PM

Toadskin is mentioned in this Australian song (see Mudcat DT). It is paper money, and the term seems to have originated in the United States. See new thread 94775: toadskin
In that thread, Bob Bolton found that the earliest version was about three johnny-cakes (1898) and suggests that the song dates back to the Australian Gold Rush era.

The earliest references to 'johnny cake' are from the United States. The earliest reference in the OED is from 1739, The Carolina Gazette, an advertisement for iron plates on which "Johnny Cakes or gridel bread can be cooked." the next is 1775, in "Florida," "Not withstanding it (rice) is ... only fit for puddings..." A 1793 quote concerns the corn variety. I would guess that the term is much older than 1739, and may have originated in the UK.
The Indians made a cake using corn (maize) and the name was often applied to this variety (or did the settlers devise the corn variety, and it became used by the Indians? (I don't know whether this is verifiable or anecdotal, but the stories are told in articles on early colonization).

'Johnny cake' is a name for a rural 'down-easter' or rustic (Used by Dana in 1834 and by Charles Dickens in his book, "American Notes."
This use does not seem to have been exported.

American songs mentioning 'johnny cake' go back to at least the 1840's ("Come all you Virginia Girls," Traditional Ballad Index), but a parallel to the Australian song has not been found.

Did not only 'toadskin' come from the United States, but also 'johnny cake'?

Subject: RE: whats the song called?-four little johnny cakes
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 19 Sep 06 - 12:27 AM

G'day,

Helen: 'Banjo Paterson published Four Little Johnny Cakes in his 1905 (and later editions) Old Bush Songs - not his own work, but songs he had gathered ("collected") through his own experience and the resources of the The Bulletin ... "The Bushman's Bible".

The earliest date for the song is a quote of the verse in 1898. As it was then called an "old w(h)aler's song"... a song of the itnerant workers about New South Wales ... it fairly neatly dates back to the US and Australia Gold Rush eras ... when there was a lot of contact in both directions. The appearance - and adoption - of a few 'Yankee' terms would be no surprise.

Regards,

Bob

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Four Little Johnny Cakes (Banjo Paterson)
From: GUEST,keberoxu
Date: 13 Dec 19 - 03:34 PM

"Jonnycakes" is what they are called in the state of Rhode Island.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Four Little Johnny Cakes (Banjo Paterson)
From: ChanteyLass
Date: 14 Dec 19 - 02:25 PM

It appears that the Australian recipe doesn't use cornmeal, but . . .

Correct about Rhode Island, Keberoxu. I'm a believer that we learned about jonnycakes from the Narragansett Indians. East of Narragansett Bay, most people make them with milk, while those of us in the West Bay make them with water. Since they are bland, I like to pour on some maple syrup regardless of which recipe I use.

There are several recipes here.
http://www.quahog.org/factsfolklore/index.php?id=206


More information can be found with a Google search.
https://www.google.com/search?q=jonny+cakes+in+RI&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari

Annoying that both these sites stick the "h" into jonnycakes!

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Four Little Johnny Cakes (Banjo Paterson)
From: GUEST,keberoxu
Date: 14 Dec 19 - 03:29 PM

well, ChanteyLass, you sound like you know what you are talking about.

Questions are raised about the name or names.

What did the Narragansett people call these things, I wonder?

"Jonnycakes" like as not is a word
derived from the English immigrants, rather than
the Narragansett Indians?

And if that is the case,
would this word not be derived from
"journey cakes,"
a phrase that turns up in at least one sea chantey?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Four Little Johnny Cakes (Banjo Paterson)
From: Hrothgar
Date: 14 Dec 19 - 06:57 PM

A "Toadskin" was a ten shilling note, so called because of its brown colour.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Four Little Johnny Cakes (Banjo Paterson)
From: ChanteyLass
Date: 15 Dec 19 - 09:11 PM

Yes, the name jonnycakes was derived from "journey cakes." I don't know what the Narragansetts called them.
Also, a saying about people of French-Canadian descent (I'm one!) is "Pea soup and jonnycakes makes a Frenchman's belly ache."