Subject: BS: Are the mods Anti-English From: GUEST,A regular member Date: 01 Sep 06 - 07:23 AM Simple question for you: Are the moderators of this site anti-English? There are a couple of depressing pro IRA terrorist threads that live here, totally unregulated. Would Mudcat tolerate pro AL QEADA threads? I think not! What say you? |
Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English From: Paul Burke Date: 01 Sep 06 - 07:29 AM The mods were anti-rocker. I can't see why the cat would censor pro-AQ threads if members discussed the issue in a civilised manner. After all,there are pro-Bush threads. Do you have a problem with issues being discussed? |
Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English From: Paul from Hull Date: 01 Sep 06 - 07:31 AM I say 'enough is enough' "GUEST,A regular member", & although you phrased it as a question, that cant help but be an accusation. No reason to think the Mods are anti-English, though without doubt some Members are...which I suppose is their 'right' even if they are 'wrong' to be so. |
Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English From: GUEST,Norman Normal Date: 01 Sep 06 - 07:32 AM The pro IRA terrorist threads are anything but civilised, and you have not answered the question Paul.A simple yes or no will do. |
Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English From: Big Al Whittle Date: 01 Sep 06 - 07:34 AM Probably the most anti English are us English ourselves. We have to put up with us. |
Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English From: Paul from Hull Date: 01 Sep 06 - 07:47 AM I have no idea if the Mods are anti-English at all....I see no evidence for it. Wile I acknowledge that the Irish-related threads were unmoderated, I see that as Joe's commitment to free speech, nothing more. Granted, we Brits were arguing at a disadvantage on those threads (& I suppose that parallels the terrorists vs security forces in the real world) but should the Mods have stepped in for that reason? The time to kill a thread is early on, if its a troll starting it or hijacking it early, not after reasoned debate has begun. |
Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English From: Dave the Gnome Date: 01 Sep 06 - 08:08 AM There are at least 4 questions in trhe opening post Norman. Which one are you refering to? |
Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English From: Paul from Hull Date: 01 Sep 06 - 08:17 AM Norman, I dont know if you consider me as evading the question above, & I'm not too fussed if you do think that, but... No, I DON'T think the Mods are Anti-English. Perhaps some Members who are also Moderators have some bias, I dont know, but if they are American (or Australian, for that matter) that would hardly be uncommon. ...& I agree the threads you are referring to were certainly NOT very 'civilised'. |
Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English From: John MacKenzie Date: 01 Sep 06 - 08:17 AM Some of the moderators on this site are English I believe, are we talking treason here? I always take the Pro IRA threads with a pinch of salt, drinking a pint of Guinness doeasn't make you Irish, neither does having one Irish ancestor out of a hundred European forebears. Many of the people posting on these threads are operating on the basis of knowing the words to the bloody Fields of Athenry, and such like maudlin songs. The few who do know what they are talking about are drowned in the floods of Mother mo chride, from a host of underdog sympathisers, and a dash of anti English sentiment. Giok |
Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English From: Paul from Hull Date: 01 Sep 06 - 08:28 AM Amen to every word of that, Giok! I look forward to having a bloody good laugh on the day that the first African-American President of the U.S., early in his tenure, flies into Dublin on a trip to 're-acquaint himself with his Irish roots'. Speaking of which, why doesnt that sort of thing include Poland, or Italy, etc, etc? Why just Ireland? Any opinions? |
Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English From: Divis Sweeney Date: 01 Sep 06 - 09:17 AM Many of you speak as if the Provisional Irish Republican Army are up and running. This isn't 1975. If any of you came forward looking to join the Provo's, the answer would be, they no longer exist. For any of you that didn't know, The leadership of Oglaigh na hEireann formally ordered an end to the armed campaign on the 28th of July 2005. All IRA units were ordered to dump arms, and they did. All Volunteers were instructed to assist the development of purely political and democratic programmes through exclusively peaceful means, and they did. The IRA leadership also authorised a representative to engage with the IICD [Independent International Commission on Decommissioning] to complete the process to verifiably put its arms beyond use in a way which will further enhance public confidence and to conclude this as quickly as possible, this has now been carried out. Two independent witnesses, from the Protestant and Catholic churches, did testify to this. The Army Council took these decisions following an unprecedented internal discussion and consultation process with IRA units and Volunteers. I was proud of the comradely way in which this truly historic discussion were conducted. The outcome of our consultations show very strong support among IRA Volunteers for the Sinn Fein peace strategy. The overwhelming majority of people in Ireland fully support this process. They and friends of Irish unity throughout the world want to see the full implementation of the Good Friday Agreement. Not withstanding these difficulties, decisions have been taken to advance republican and democratic objectives, including my goal of a united Ireland. I believe there is now an alternative way to achieve this and to end British rule in my country. It is the responsibility of all Volunteers to show leadership, determination and courage. I am very mindful of the sacrifices of our patriot dead, those who went to jail, Volunteers, and what we had to put up with. I reiterate my view that the armed struggle was entirely legitimate.I am conscious that many people suffered in the conflict. There is a responsibility on society to ensure that there is no re-occurrence of the pogroms of 1969 and the early 1970s. There is also a universal responsibility to tackle sectarianism in all its forms. I understand there is bad feeling towards all Oglaigh for the campaign in Britain, I am sorry for any loss of life. The campaign is over and please allow those interested in the subject to debate it's history if so required. I am a republican, and very proud of it, if any of you have a problem with that, sorry the problem is yours. DS |
Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English From: catspaw49 Date: 01 Sep 06 - 09:24 AM Welcome to the latest N.I. thread. In this corner we have Divis Sweeney and in the other 9723 corners we have............LMAO! Spaw |
Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English From: Stu Date: 01 Sep 06 - 10:51 AM I have to come out in defence of Divis here - he has always spoken with candor and his posts have gone some way to changing my view on the nature of the conflict - and I agree the implementation of the Good Friday Agreement is a key requirement for peace in the north. I wonder though - if I were to show the same committment to the English nationalist cause as Divis does to the Irish nationalist cause, that wouldn't go down too well anywhere. Now let's be clear, I am categorically NOT making a judgement on anyone or their beliefs, just musing on the nature of nationalism in the Islands we share. The oft-stated idea that waving the English flag is somehow shows support for the BNP (whose name includes the word British, note, not English) or hides some sort of racist overtones has to change, and English people have to be able to freely identify with their national symbols if they want - if everytime an Irish, Scottish or Welsh flag was waved in England the wavee (?) was called a racist/BNP/oppressor of whoever this country would be a bloody miserable place to live, and the bigots doing the shouting would hopefully come in for some serious flak. Anyway, I personally don't like the concept of nationalism in a political sense - it leads to division. I look forward to the day a United Isles of the West is declared, each country celebrating our own cultures and shared heritage, making our own laws for our own people, so we can finally get on with being the brother and sisters we truly are rather than the bickering siblings kings, queens, priests, vicars, bishops, cardinals, imams, generals, politicians and assorted knobheads have made us over the centuries. Heck, the music would be the best! |
Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English From: leeneia Date: 01 Sep 06 - 11:06 AM I just went to the music threads and counted 30 threads that are about English music or English events. That ought to answer the question. |
Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English From: Dave the Gnome Date: 01 Sep 06 - 11:29 AM This whole thread is nonsense. There is not and never have been any 'depressing pro-IRA threads'. There has been lively debate on both sides. There has been some annoying name calling and mis-information on both sides. There has been some wonderful and enlightening rhetoric on both sides. There has never been and never will be any pro or anti anything threads on the mudcat. Someone may start one but I can guarantee that before long the opposite view will be voiced. Whoever 'a regular member' is should know that if they are indeed a regular member. But if they are why sign out? Makes them worse than an anonymous troll. This is my last post on this thread and I would ask everyone to stop right here and let the shitstirrer try another place. Cheers DtG |
Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English From: Big Mick Date: 01 Sep 06 - 11:50 AM Everyone knows I am a mod. Everyone knows that my sentiments are Republican and Nationalist with regard to the country of my Grandparents. I can assure you that I have more than one Irish ancestor, but that really isn't the subject being discussed and it is a cheap shot to try and make it so. Ours is a land of immigrants and we identify with our cultural heritage. I would say when I came to Mudcat in 1998, I had an unreasonable anti English bias. It was founded in ignorance. The result of all these years of exposure to folks on both sides of the equation has been to diminish that bias to a great degree. I would say I have no bias against English people, but I have had my opposition to the English governments policies in the North of Ireland strengthened to a great degree. Without exception, the English folks I have met have been kind people. I have enjoyed getting to know them and count many as friends. In the end result, my life has been enriched and enhanced coming to know them. As to my duties as a moderator, there has been absolutely no difference in how I would treat pro English policy posters from posters who reflect my own biases. In fact, usually I leave moderation of those threads to others because of sensitivity to charges of bias. But I will say this. While these threads have plenty of heat, there has not been flame. I can remember back to 1999 or so when we had a long running thread on "Back Home In Derry". It got heated, but we all agreed that it was useful and, for the most part, respectful. We have no need to stray away from controversy here. In fact controversy has probably spawned as much folk music as any factor. I think it is a good thing, done right. Mod's at the Mudcat are not here to control the conversation. We are here to make sure personal attacks aren't allowed (we don't always do this as well as we should), to fix links or edits, and avoid lengthy cut and pastes, etc. Personal attack is a hard one to define. Usually the use of gratuitous vulgarity is the hallmark. Calling someone's viewpoint foolish, ill informed, etc. is not a personal attack. Calling someone an asshole is. Unless something is clear and unequivocal, we usually talk it over before dumping it. I can assure you of one thing. I am not anti English, and usually stray away from any moderating decisions on these threads so as to avoid the bias charge. The conversations I have seen between Keith of Hertford, Divis and others are usually well within the boundaries. They are not always pleasant but usually kept with civil norms. All the best, Mick |
Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 01 Sep 06 - 11:51 AM Sorry Dave, but I have been a staunch opponent of terror in persuit of political gain, and want to say that I would not expect the mods to close threads where people express views to the contrary. I would like to challenge Sweemey's post. No doubt he will put it all up again. |
Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English From: Epona Date: 01 Sep 06 - 12:04 PM Sweemey? I thought you were a stickler for spelling, Keith. Has the night begun already for you?! :) E |
Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English From: wysiwyg Date: 01 Sep 06 - 12:07 PM I think Mudcat doesn't have "mods" as people usually think of them-- as usually seen at other discussion boards. People so often forget that Mudcat predates current discussion/message board culture, and is its own creature. What we have are volunteers who mostly help fix broken HTML. Now, each of these volunteers is a human being with their own likes and dislikes. That doesn't necessarily mean that they perform their Mudcat chores in a biased way. ~Susan |
Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 01 Sep 06 - 12:18 PM Epona, just a typo this time, but guilty of plenty of genuine mispellings. These threads are just friends chatting. No need to reach for a dictionary. |
Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English From: Grab Date: 01 Sep 06 - 12:21 PM Would Mudcat tolerate pro AL QEADA threads? Obviously not a mod myself. But I hope that the mods wouldn't remove such a thread. I also hope that members would be telling the person starting it (most probably an anonymous Guest) they were talking out their arse. But if someone's got a new opinion or new idea to throw into the mix, whether or not it makes any damn sense, I hope this wouldn't lead to deletion. Graham. |
Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English From: Epona Date: 01 Sep 06 - 12:49 PM I'll remember you said that, K! ;) E |
Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English From: Den Date: 01 Sep 06 - 01:12 PM The answer to the first question, are the moderators anti-English? In my oppinion no. The rest of the poster's post is propagandistic drivel. |
Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English From: The Shambles Date: 01 Sep 06 - 01:27 PM Now, each of these volunteers is a human being with their own likes and dislikes. That doesn't necessarily mean that they perform their Mudcat chores in a biased way. It doesn't necessarily mean they do not. Our forum may be more prepared to take your assertion that they were not acting in a biased way - on trust, if our forum were trusted enough to be to know who these 'mods' are and how many of them there are. |
Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English From: Bert Date: 01 Sep 06 - 01:29 PM No. |
Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English From: Paul from Hull Date: 01 Sep 06 - 01:39 PM Bah! I typed a long post in reply to Divis earlier this afternoon (it would have been the next post after his) but it didnt send, my computer went glitchy, then I had to go out anyway. Damned if I can be arsed to post it all again now. |
Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English From: Azizi Date: 01 Sep 06 - 01:43 PM Paul from Hull, I'm not sure why the thought of the first African-American President of the U.S. {or any other African American for that matter} re-acquainting him or herself with his Irish roots causes you to have a "bloody good laugh". Given the fact that African Americans are probably the most racially mixed people on earth, there's bound to be some of us who can trace our 'roots' to Ireland. Why would the fact that we'd want to experience our Irish ancestry be laughable? |
Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English From: Paul from Hull Date: 01 Sep 06 - 01:58 PM Sorry Azizi, I meant no offence (& you DID actually coe to mind while I was posting that). Can I rephrase that earlier post & say that the humour to be found n that situation would be imagining said African-American President making a stop in each & every European Capital? THAT was the context in which I meant it, & I know that looks like back-pedalling, but I hope the intial idea is clearer now, & any offence I caused you to take, put to rest? Again, apologies. |
Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English From: The Shambles Date: 01 Sep 06 - 02:13 PM What we have are volunteers who mostly help fix broken HTML. 'Mostly' being the operative and totally misleading word. The true nature and current level of imposed censorship remains unknown to our forum. See the following thread for more details - and which you could even post to (at the moment) - as it currently remains open. Closed threads and deleted posts |
Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English From: John MacKenzie Date: 01 Sep 06 - 02:20 PM "and which you could even post to" |
Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English From: Azizi Date: 01 Sep 06 - 02:23 PM Paul, yes of course I will accept your apologies on behalf of myself and whoever else that comment might pertain to. I get what you are saying, but still... Nevermind. It's not something to waste energy over. Btw, you said that when you wrote that post, I 'coe' to your mind. I hope 'coe' is something good. :o) Best wishes, Azizi |
Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English From: Paul from Hull Date: 01 Sep 06 - 02:34 PM Ok, if anyone finds that missing 'm'.....*G* I grant you, Azizi, it wasnt very tactfully put at all...if there is still something about it that 'rankles', I'd prefer to try & put it right...send me a P.M. if you wish? |
Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English From: katlaughing Date: 01 Sep 06 - 02:49 PM It would be a laugh on all of the Americans who haven't a clue that there may be Irish, or any other European ancestry in the background of said American of African origin president, Paul. The racists among them would be horrified. As to the title question: no |
Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English From: Paul from Hull Date: 01 Sep 06 - 02:50 PM True Kat! |
Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English From: Azizi Date: 01 Sep 06 - 03:00 PM Paul, I'm no longer offended and now that I understand that no harm was meant, please let it go, okay? *** As to the question are mods anti-English, what's a mod? No. really. I get that this is a British abbreviation for 'moderator'. That abbreviation reminds me of the American television show "The Mod Squad", though I don't think that 'mod' meant "moderation". And if you think I'm flubbing off the question, you'd be right because I confess that I don't always read the Irish/English threads and when I do, it's more to gain cultural/historical awareness that I'm lacking. So I'll have to pass on this question. But, hopefully, I'll do better on the next pop quiz. |
Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English From: Paul from Hull Date: 01 Sep 06 - 03:05 PM Hmmm...I'd assumed that the term Moderator was fairly 'universal' acoss the InterWeb...*G* Its interesting to know that a British term has reached what I would have thought was 'popular usage'. ...after all, WE did invent it. ....AND Computers. ....TWICE. *G* |
Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English From: Joe Offer Date: 01 Sep 06 - 03:15 PM If I get a complaint about a message or a thread, I'll take a look at it - and usually I'll decide to leave it alone unless it's a clear-cut problem. Generally, we leave political discussions alone because:
But usually, we don't do anything at all with threads of that type. Personal attacks are another matter, but even then we aren't as heavy on censorship as some would have you believe. Generally, though, we delete personal attacks when we see them or when we get complaints about them. I suppose that most of what we delete are messages that flood the forum with useless information - mostly Spam; but also non-music copy-pastes that fill more than one screen, and multiple copies of the same post that appear in a number of threads. In general, though, we delete far less than most people would like us to delete - despite allegations to the contrary from one particular party. I'm sorry, but I just don't see any real value in intervening in the Irish threads - deciding on what is appropriate and what is inappropriate, is simply too arbitrary. In general, we don't really care if people say outrageous things - as long as it doesn't cause general chaos here at Mudcat. Our job is to keep the peace - not to decide whether something is appropriate or not. So, are the Mudcat moderators anti-English? No, we just don't take a position on either side. It doesn't do any good to discuss any of this with Shambles. He knows the names of all the moderators, and yet he continues to complain about their anonymity. In a three-day period a week or two ago, I transferred all the messages we usually delete into his "closed and deleted" thread, so he and the rest of the world could see a normal sample of what gets deleted. This demonstration didn't satisy Shambles, and he continues to assert that the Mudcat moderators are silently deleting something or another. I guess I have to expect that Shambles will continue to assert that horrible but nonspecific things are happening in secret. I can't think of how to devise a system that will provide absolute proof that these horrible nonspecific things are NOT being done by Anonymous Fellow Posters. I tried, but he didn't believe me, so it doesn't do any good to discuss anything with him. I guess it's good to just let him continue to believe in these Horrible Nonspecific Things and in his Anonymous Fellow Posters, because it gives meaning and purpose to his life. I do have to limit him to one thread at a time, so the rest of us can actually carry on reasonable discussions. I suppose that since this is "his" topic, this will become "his" thread, and I'll have to close the other one. I'll wait and see what he does. But anyhow, the mods aren't anti-English. They just don't take a position. -Joe Offer- |
Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English From: Big Al Whittle Date: 01 Sep 06 - 03:41 PM Oh Joe how could you say that - after all the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune, which I have suffered? Ah me! All those calumnies from my detractors.... All the pain and humiliation, the sadness, the hours spent drinking just the bitter waters of solitude and misery! If it continues, I'm going home to Mother! |
Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English From: Paul from Hull Date: 01 Sep 06 - 03:42 PM I THOUGHT I had made this statement earlier in the thread, but seems not...though perhaps missing it by looking too hard. I wasnt involved for all/both? recent threads in question, but at no point did I think it necessary for a Mod to take action, other than perhaps when it was clear that some people accustomed to posting on a certain 'Loyalist' website started posting. |
Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English From: number 6 Date: 01 Sep 06 - 03:43 PM I thought the Mods were the epitome of everything English ... ok, they rode Italian scooters but they had them flagged out with Union Jacks. sIx |
Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English From: GUEST Date: 01 Sep 06 - 03:47 PM MI-6 sponsored many of the IRA attacks. How can you NOT hate a govt like that? The house of Windsor needs to be levelled. |
Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English From: Paul from Hull Date: 01 Sep 06 - 03:51 PM ..Though I'll not mourn if the Mods eradicate that pile of steaming nonsense above.. |
Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English From: John MacKenzie Date: 01 Sep 06 - 03:54 PM Guest the house of Windsor have nothing to do with anything that MI5/6 or 600 does. This is an often spread lie, while the queen may sign bills or give the royal assent before a bill passes into law, she has nothing whatsoever to do with the framing of that law. The Queen's speech read at the opening of parliament, is written by the government, and she has no input. If you want to blame someone blame the government, or the PM thereof! Giok |
Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English From: weerover Date: 01 Sep 06 - 03:58 PM Second that, Giok. A radio report today quotes a Scots MSP saying to a reporter that if Blair doesn't give a date for him standing down before next year's Scottish elections, "We [New Labour in Scotland] are f***ed!". The reporter actually said "wrecked" but indicated that another word was actually used. wr |
Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English From: Divis Sweeney Date: 01 Sep 06 - 04:39 PM Doubt MI-6 sponsored many of the IRA attacks. There were a few bombings and several shootings over here that the PIRA got blamed on and there was no way they did them. Sorry can only speculate who was responsible, at the time the materials used were not of the norm and the gun attacks left a few scratching their heads as to why. I also wish to say I myself am not anti English. I may have issues with British government policy, but not the English people. A good point was raised earlier in this thread about the flying of the flag of St, George. You have every right to fly it and be proud during the World Cup of on your national day. Another point raised there about the Royal family, I hold no opinion on them,only to say, to me they are only a figure head and a tourist attraction. I have few friends here, because of my beliefs. One member cuts the crap out of me at every opportunity. Please understand that because I welcome the ending of the campaign and express my desire for peace, I have more over here that would dislike me from the few that support the Real IRA or the Continuity IRA. So I am in a no win situation. Divis no mates. |
Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English From: Epona Date: 01 Sep 06 - 05:09 PM The fact is Divis that you are a wealth of information, though some may not like some of the facts you present. Plus, you don't blur any lines and you always let your opinions be known. I think all can respect your honesty with your stance. I have always appreciated that of you and of several members here, and though I may not agree with them, I respect them nonetheless. E |
Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English From: pdq Date: 01 Sep 06 - 05:19 PM Prompted by a couple of posts upstream: the people called Mods were were part of culture of the 60s. Colorful clothes, Rock music, long hair and Carnaby Street all come to mind. They were the British equivalent of US hippies (best word I could think of) but the Mods seemed to be intent on having fun. American counterculture was much more linked to drugs and politics. Obviously the Mod cultural movement in the 60s took its name from 'modern'. |
Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English From: Les from Hull Date: 01 Sep 06 - 05:30 PM Mods not known for 'peace and love' though! I suppose that the UK equivalent of hippies was hippies. |
Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English From: pdq Date: 01 Sep 06 - 05:38 PM I'm quite sure you are correct on that. I forgot that many British youth consider punching people in the nose to be a form of entertainment. |
Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English From: Paul from Hull Date: 01 Sep 06 - 05:57 PM Far too many, pdq, far too many.....& the Mods were none too peaceable either... |