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Dartford Folk Club

Dartford Warbler 03 Sep 06 - 07:34 PM
jojofolkagogo 04 Sep 06 - 07:29 AM
Dartford Warbler 04 Sep 06 - 08:31 AM
GUEST,Mr Grumpy 04 Sep 06 - 08:35 AM
breezy 04 Sep 06 - 09:06 AM
breezy 04 Sep 06 - 09:09 AM
Richard Bridge 04 Sep 06 - 10:48 AM
breezy 04 Sep 06 - 03:51 PM
GUEST,Tone Deaf Leopard 04 Sep 06 - 04:42 PM
Chris Amos 04 Sep 06 - 05:31 PM
Girl Friday 06 Sep 06 - 08:09 PM
Richard Bridge 06 Sep 06 - 08:54 PM
jojofolkagogo 08 Sep 06 - 11:00 AM
Briansquire 08 Sep 06 - 01:33 PM
GUEST 08 Sep 06 - 03:10 PM
GUEST,Mr Grumpy 08 Sep 06 - 03:32 PM
BB 08 Sep 06 - 06:20 PM
Dartford Warbler 08 Sep 06 - 08:44 PM
Girl Friday 10 Sep 06 - 05:25 PM
GUEST,Dartford River Crossing 10 Sep 06 - 05:48 PM
The Sandman 10 Sep 06 - 06:00 PM
Richard Bridge 10 Sep 06 - 06:29 PM
GUEST,Girl Friday without cookie 10 Sep 06 - 09:25 PM
The Sandman 11 Sep 06 - 03:29 AM
Richard Bridge 11 Sep 06 - 03:31 AM
The Sandman 11 Sep 06 - 07:43 PM
Girl Friday 11 Sep 06 - 08:39 PM
GUEST 12 Sep 06 - 07:32 PM
GUEST,Mr Grumpy 13 Sep 06 - 07:13 AM
GUEST,sailorby 13 Sep 06 - 07:43 AM
Richard Bridge 13 Sep 06 - 07:52 AM
The Sandman 13 Sep 06 - 08:28 AM
GUEST,Mr Grumpy 13 Sep 06 - 09:10 AM
GUEST 13 Sep 06 - 09:50 AM
Don(Wyziwyg)T 13 Sep 06 - 11:04 AM
The Sandman 13 Sep 06 - 11:41 AM
GUEST,sailorboy 13 Sep 06 - 12:31 PM
Richard Bridge 13 Sep 06 - 01:08 PM
Dead Horse 13 Sep 06 - 03:41 PM
Dartford Warbler 13 Sep 06 - 03:45 PM
breezy 13 Sep 06 - 04:11 PM
GUEST 13 Sep 06 - 04:37 PM
The Sandman 13 Sep 06 - 05:25 PM
melodeonboy 13 Sep 06 - 05:26 PM
The Sandman 13 Sep 06 - 05:47 PM
treewind 13 Sep 06 - 06:26 PM
GUEST 13 Sep 06 - 06:38 PM
Dartford Warbler 13 Sep 06 - 07:26 PM
The Sandman 13 Sep 06 - 10:58 PM
Richard Bridge 14 Sep 06 - 04:51 AM
stallion 14 Sep 06 - 05:41 AM
Dartford Warbler 14 Sep 06 - 07:55 AM
Girl Friday 17 Sep 06 - 08:40 PM
Dartford Warbler 18 Sep 06 - 01:55 PM
GUEST,rogerthechorister 18 Sep 06 - 09:33 PM
Dartford Warbler 25 Sep 06 - 04:06 PM
billybob 25 Sep 06 - 05:48 PM
GUEST,wordy 25 Sep 06 - 06:34 PM
Dartford Warbler 03 Oct 06 - 09:53 AM
The Sandman 04 Oct 06 - 09:19 AM
billybob 04 Oct 06 - 07:53 PM
Richard Bridge 05 Oct 06 - 01:47 AM
GUEST,Dino Dini 07 Oct 06 - 06:57 AM
GUEST,Dino Dini 07 Oct 06 - 07:02 AM
Girl Friday 07 Oct 06 - 08:07 PM
GUEST 07 Oct 06 - 08:39 PM
The Sandman 08 Oct 06 - 04:56 AM
Richard Bridge 08 Oct 06 - 02:10 PM
nickvan-cody 08 Oct 06 - 02:26 PM
The Sandman 08 Oct 06 - 03:50 PM
Girl Friday 08 Oct 06 - 06:50 PM
Richard Bridge 08 Oct 06 - 08:14 PM
billybob 09 Oct 06 - 07:07 PM
GUEST,Dino Dini 11 Oct 06 - 07:33 PM
GUEST,Dino Dini 11 Oct 06 - 07:43 PM
GUEST,Dino DIni 11 Oct 06 - 07:51 PM
Girl Friday 11 Oct 06 - 08:05 PM
GUEST 11 Oct 06 - 08:07 PM
GUEST 11 Oct 06 - 08:15 PM
Richard Bridge 12 Oct 06 - 02:29 AM
GUEST 12 Oct 06 - 06:50 AM
GUEST 12 Oct 06 - 07:07 AM
GUEST,Purple Sandpiper 02 Nov 06 - 08:13 PM
Anne Lister 03 Nov 06 - 04:57 AM
GUEST,Purple Sandpiper 03 Nov 06 - 03:22 PM
GUEST,Purple Sandpiper 03 Nov 06 - 03:31 PM
Anne Lister 04 Nov 06 - 07:03 AM
Girl Friday 05 Nov 06 - 09:17 PM
GUEST 06 Nov 06 - 05:26 AM
GUEST,wordy 06 Nov 06 - 06:57 AM
Dartford Warbler 13 Nov 06 - 09:53 AM
Girl Friday 13 Nov 06 - 10:32 AM
GUEST 13 Nov 06 - 02:49 PM
Dartford Warbler 27 Nov 06 - 06:12 PM
Dartford Warbler 27 Nov 06 - 06:19 PM
Dartford Warbler 04 Dec 06 - 01:46 PM
Dartford Warbler 11 Dec 06 - 01:35 PM
GUEST,The Dartford Warbler 17 Feb 07 - 01:38 PM
Leadfingers 17 Feb 07 - 02:53 PM
Leadfingers 17 Feb 07 - 02:53 PM
GUEST,The Dartford Warbler 25 Jul 08 - 08:38 PM
breezy 26 Jul 08 - 03:26 AM
Dartford Warbler 26 Jul 08 - 03:58 PM
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Subject: Dartford Folk Club
From: Dartford Warbler
Date: 03 Sep 06 - 07:34 PM

Just to let you know that Dartford Folk Club gets underway again after the August holiday and festival break.

We start on Tuesday 5 September with Carl Jones and Beverly Smith.

They have been part of the US traditional music scene for years, playing just about anything with strings and tossing in vocal harmonies in various bands and formations. Carl is a singer songwriter who plays mandolin, banjo and fiddle. Beverly is a highly respected guitar player and is also in demand as a singer, fiddler and dance caller. Together, they are a most engaging old timey duo.

Everyone welcome. Club membership not necessary.
12 (Yes! Twelve!) real ale hand pumps on the bar!

http://www.DartfordFolk.org.uk


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Subject: RE: Dartford Folk Club
From: jojofolkagogo
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 07:29 AM

This is the club which says "All Singers and Musicians Welcome"

but never asks anyone to sing or play, except, of course, the Residents.

I dont like this club. (and I dont like guest clubs in general)

Jo-Jo


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Subject: RE: Dartford Folk Club
From: Dartford Warbler
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 08:31 AM

Flamed on virtually my first visit to Mudcat :-(

Jo-jo, whilst you have every right not to like 'guest clubs in general', I do take exception to your comments about the club and suggest you have a look at:
http://www.dartfordfolk.org.uk/floors1.htm

(P.S. I am neither a Resident or organiser of said club)


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Subject: RE: Dartford Folk Club
From: GUEST,Mr Grumpy
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 08:35 AM

I think JoJo has a point here. It is a complaint I have often heard about the club.

It also has almost wholly American or American-type music.


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Subject: RE: Dartford Folk Club
From: breezy
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 09:06 AM

maybe the club has a quality controller?

It says musicians and singers welcome so perhaps those who may think they are, are not.

The audience comes first.


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Subject: RE: Dartford Folk Club
From: breezy
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 09:09 AM

and

having looked at their programme


its certainly is high quality mainly british line up

we will be having A J C making a 2nd visit to St Albans on the 24th sept


so mr Grumpy and jojo are way off target, maybe stick to free sessions., unless you can do better


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Subject: RE: Dartford Folk Club
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 10:48 AM

Both are complaints that I too have heard. I have heard the first from semipros.

I think, Breezy, that your assumption (without evidence that I know of, certainly jojo is streets and streets ahead of where she was when she started, and I always enjoy her songs) that neither jojo nor Mr Grumpy are worth listening too is ill-mannered.

And while I would not dispute that many Dartford guests are English born or resident I think you would be hard pressed to assert a predominance of traditional English music or song there. I certainly have an image of Dartford as a club that is likely to have transatlantic songs.


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Subject: RE: Dartford Folk Club
From: breezy
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 03:51 PM

It appears to cater for a wide audience and its an audience that keeps the club going so after all these years something is working and the club is well respected.

Maybe a club has to be wary of a predominance of Eng Trad, everything in the correct dosage, and trad is catered for most certainly


Andy Clark from Totnes in Devon, would be a hugely welcomed and aprreciated guest, a latter day Nic Jones in some people's opinion, were he ever booked and he comes with references from none other than Pete Coe. He's down for Faversham next year.

Thanks for the slap R B but I notice you like jojo's songs, not her singing of them ?

Wrists smarting


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Subject: RE: Dartford Folk Club
From: GUEST,Tone Deaf Leopard
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 04:42 PM

We like Dartford, but we, (sensibly) pick and choose which nights to go. The only problem we've encountered about playing there has mostly been our own fault for forgetting to pre-book a spot early enough. It is a valid point that the residents get priority, but they like to get as much time for the guests as possible, and their audiences are usually huge - so the audience, quite rightly can dictate the guestlist. That said, they seem to enjoy our brand of idiocy. Think it fair to say that this is still the S.East's Premier Folk Club, and long may it continue as such.


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Subject: RE: Dartford Folk Club
From: Chris Amos
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 05:31 PM

I have always had a warm welcome on the odd occasions that I have turned up there, you do have to hold a gun to the head of the person on the mixer to get any reverb though.

Chris


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Subject: RE: Dartford Folk Club
From: Girl Friday
Date: 06 Sep 06 - 08:09 PM

We don't need a mixer to get reverb Chris, just a heavy pick on the 13s does it for TDL!


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Subject: RE: Dartford Folk Club
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 06 Sep 06 - 08:54 PM

THat's not reverb, but slapback!


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Subject: RE: Dartford Folk Club
From: jojofolkagogo
Date: 08 Sep 06 - 11:00 AM

thanks Richard for your kind words !!!

Breezy's response was,I think, typical of persons NOT taking complaints seriously... I have heard this complaint many times about dartford FC ... so its not just me !

I made absolutely no mention on the quality of guests - I made the point that GENERALLY SPEAKING people are NOT welcome to sing - if you are supposed to book a spot, then it should say so in their advert in EFN or AKF but is says "ALL MUSICIANS AND SINGERS WELCOME" and my point is that they are not.

Jo-Jo


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Subject: RE: Dartford Folk Club
From: Briansquire
Date: 08 Sep 06 - 01:33 PM

I am a regular at Dartford and I think it is by far the best club in the area.High quality acts a nice enviroment and a huge range of very cheap real ale. I am glad the floor spots are short and limited. I pay to go to listen to the professional very high quality guests not to see a second rate floor singer with no sense of pitch or rhythm. Within a 20 minute drive of Dartford there are probaly about a dozen clubs which specialise in sing arounds where people of any standard can go and warble to there hearts content . As for the music being mainly american or"american type " that is total rubbish if you bother to look through the last years programme you will see very few or ar you suggesting that Tom Lewis as Canadian sings American type music or is blues not folky enough.
Anyone is welcomed at Dartford it is a very friendly and well run club and long may it carry on as is


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Subject: RE: Dartford Folk Club
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Sep 06 - 03:10 PM


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Subject: RE: Dartford Folk Club
From: GUEST,Mr Grumpy
Date: 08 Sep 06 - 03:32 PM

The above was me, oops.

Well, since, so far as I know, only one, possibly two 'catters (Not including John Breeze) know who I am, assuming that I was a shitty performer was certainly a piece of arrogance. Maybe I'll play your club, without telling you who I am, and we'll see.

The complaint that the residents at Dartford prioritise themselves over other floor singers is of long standing. I don't know whether it is still true of the club, as I haven't been there since Pint and Dale several years ago (a clue there for those of you with long memories) but it certainly used to be true.

The four guests for September are two sets of Americans, one assemblage who do certainly some american or american-style material (last time I saw Colin Reece play it was in a straightforward electric country band at Sweeps a few years back), and one whose words from his website look like new country (I don't actually know his material). A glance at the guests for the year shows quite a large proportion of americans or players of american-style music (with some "celtic" too). Of the residents certainly the Dartford Ramblers play very largely american songs.


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Subject: RE: Dartford Folk Club
From: BB
Date: 08 Sep 06 - 06:20 PM

I've not been to Dartford FC for many years, but I have friends that go regularly, and I have my doubts about how welcome Andy Clarke would be as a guest there. I suspect that he would be rather too English straight-down-the-line trad. for the organisers, if not much of the audience.

What really caught my notice was the start of the thread, concerning Carl Jones and Beverly Smith. I saw them not so long ago down here in Devon, and thoroughly enjoyed what they did. Definitely worth going to see.

By the way, how long has Tom Lewis been Canadian? He may live there, but...

Barbara


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Subject: RE: Dartford Folk Club
From: Dartford Warbler
Date: 08 Sep 06 - 08:44 PM

WARNING: There is a chap called Anthony John Clarke who lives in Liverpool (England) who comes from Northern Ireland playing at this Southern English club
(http://www.DartfordFolk.org.uk)
this Tuesday 12 September. He writes and performs both humourous and serious songs and also plays the guitar. He has an accent that betrays his Northern Irish roots.

So if you do not think he is from the right part of the world for you, then please stay away.


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Subject: RE: Dartford Folk Club
From: Girl Friday
Date: 10 Sep 06 - 05:25 PM

Dartford Warbler - bet when you innocently started this thread you thought it was just a "What's On?" thing. I wonder if you had known then what you know now . Would you have bothered? Thanks for Barbara's injection of common sense. Anyone wanting to see a guest who is Belfast born, Liverpool raised, and resident in Canada, and doesn't want to go to Dartford is welcome to come to Orpington Liberal Club on the previous Friday.


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Subject: RE: Dartford Folk Club
From: GUEST,Dartford River Crossing
Date: 10 Sep 06 - 05:48 PM

Well Girl Friday, every posting whether critical or praising gets the thread to the top of the list and I am sure the discerning folky will be able to seperate the wheatear from the chaffinch. ;-) :-)


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Subject: RE: Dartford Folk Club
From: The Sandman
Date: 10 Sep 06 - 06:00 PM

Well about thirty five years ago I was a floor singer at Dartford folk club,
I have never been booked there, although I was booked at Farningham ,Gravesend, two different Orpington clubs, Downe folk club[supposed to be a blues club],CROYDON[ MANY TIMES]Catford      Tunbridge wells,Jon Smedley concert club etc.
well John Breeze , I remember when you were a floor singer, at the same time as myself, and in my case without the encouragement [of in my case Skinners rats], I would not have developed as a performer. I am still waitng for that first gig at Dartford,and I reckon I will be gigging up in heaven before I gig there.
    I sussed DARTFORD about twenty five years ago and although I havent been there for along time, I would like to thank AlAN AND PAM Colls for giving me floor spots all those years ago. DickMiles


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Subject: RE: Dartford Folk Club
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 10 Sep 06 - 06:29 PM

Cor flippin 'ell apart from the very brief (about 4 weeks) thing I got shanghied into running at the Railway Bell how many years has it been since there was a folk club in Gravesend?


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Subject: RE: Dartford Folk Club
From: GUEST,Girl Friday without cookie
Date: 10 Sep 06 - 09:25 PM

Gravesend closed shortly after Julia Winn left there for the good life in East Peckham. It ran for as long as they had a kitty.


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Subject: RE: Dartford Folk Club
From: The Sandman
Date: 11 Sep 06 - 03:29 AM

relatively recently, mid 90s perhaps.


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Subject: RE: Dartford Folk Club
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 11 Sep 06 - 03:31 AM

That was the most recent incarnation, at the Kent and Essex. My guess is that it closed in the mid 90s, would that be about right?

There was one even longer ago at the White Hart, and there was also one briefly at the Call Boy.

I am reminded of "Summer in the City"

Right now, summer in the city
Back of my neck getting dirty pretty
Cool cat looking for a kitty...

Was it by the Loving Spoonful? Now was that name a sexual or a drugs reference?


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Subject: RE: Dartford Folk Club
From: The Sandman
Date: 11 Sep 06 - 07:43 PM

YES Loving spoonful, as was, what a day for a daydream and Night owl Blues.


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Subject: RE: Dartford Folk Club
From: Girl Friday
Date: 11 Sep 06 - 08:39 PM

The Loving spoonful was a spoonful of sugar that helped the medicine go down.


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Subject: RE: Dartford Folk Club
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Sep 06 - 07:32 PM

My God, there's some miserable, pontificating, fundamentalist miseries in this folk world of ours and some of the postings on this thread are diabolical.
There's room for all, or should be, except in the minds of these pygmies. Pam and Alan run a fine club for an audience that appreciates and pays for what they provide. If it's not your cup of tea there are plenty of other places to go and sing your dirges. Or maybe you could start a club of your own and see if you can raise the same number of people to pay on your door for their entertainment.
Words fail me.What a miserable attitude some people have to what gives others pleasure. It might not be your idea of a folk club, but it is mine and many others. Nothing is stopping you building your little niche so get on with it and leave Pam and Alan to do their thing.


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Subject: RE: Dartford Folk Club
From: GUEST,Mr Grumpy
Date: 13 Sep 06 - 07:13 AM

Well, the supporters of Dartford seem to do a bit of a line in snapping, but I don't see anyone actually addressing the three principal complaints: -
1)   Floorsingers do not feel welcome.
2)   The residents play (sometimes a number of songs) and leave no time for floor singers.
3    There is too much American music (not necessarily from Americans).

It doesn't affect me, I don't go there. The last time I went "dressed to play" (as it were) I was asked if I wanted to play.

But these criticisms are not new, they are long-standing, and they deserve a serious answer, not "yah-boo-sucks-chizz-chizz"


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Subject: RE: Dartford Folk Club
From: GUEST,sailorby
Date: 13 Sep 06 - 07:43 AM

Have to say I've been there a couple of times recently and found it very friendly and well run and with a varied and well thought out program of events. I first found it in the seventies when I briefly lived and worked in london and found most other clubs in town both clique-ey and very unwelcoming. Dartford also seems to have stood the test of time. Good luck to 'em.


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Subject: RE: Dartford Folk Club
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 13 Sep 06 - 07:52 AM

Do you perform, Sailorby, or are you an audient? There may be a tendency for a pair of polarised views to be emerging...


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Subject: RE: Dartford Folk Club
From: The Sandman
Date: 13 Sep 06 - 08:28 AM

Constructive criticism should always be listened to, but it is alan and pams right to ignore it if they want to.
One thing I will say about alan and pam colls, they are very straight forward people, They used to let me sing there as a floor singer, many years later when I asked about a guest spot . their reply was well we think you are good but not right for our club[ they didnt mess me about with half promises etc ],now I happen to think they are wrong[ because Tony Rose used to do successful gigs at their club and im not any more trad than he was, but they have an absolute right to book who they want so what I think becomes irrelevant.they have run this club for 35 years they must be doing something right.
   AT THE SAME TIME THERE MAY BE AN ELEMENT OF TRUTH IN THE CRITICISMS WHICH PERHAPS SHOULD BE BORNE IN MIND.
Alan and Pam are very dedicated people who have given alot of pleasure to people including myself but it doesnt mean that the club is not open to minor improvements .
]they have a club policy which is fairly broad[ they occasionally book trad artists[ but nearly always accompanied by a guitar]they are working to a formula they find successful. which is understandable, the problem with this formula is that it never broadens the horizons of their audiences.NOW SOME MAY THINK THIS NOT IMPORTANT       [ i do]or not their remit[ debatable]any way I wish the club success. Dick Miles


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Subject: RE: Dartford Folk Club
From: GUEST,Mr Grumpy
Date: 13 Sep 06 - 09:10 AM

Very sensible, Cap'n


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Subject: RE: Dartford Folk Club
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Sep 06 - 09:50 AM

1)   Floorsingers do not feel welcome.
2)   The residents play (sometimes a number of songs) and leave no time for floor singers.
3    There is too much American music (not necessarily from Americans).

Exactly. That's what the audience pays for. They don't want opera, they don't want jazz, they don't want egotistical floorsingers. They want the residents and the guest and the music they offer.
So what's wrong with that? There are plenty of other folk based clubs catering to your needs which I'm sure neither Pam, Alan, the residents or the audience begrudge you.
So get on with your idea of a club and leave them alone. Oh, and I like American folk music more than English, Scottish or Irish. And modern songs more than traditional. Should I be punished, or will you allow me my club?


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Subject: RE: Dartford Folk Club
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 13 Sep 06 - 11:04 AM

I was a regular attender at Dartford Folk Club, back in the Station Hotel days, and I have two comments to make about it.

1. I too felt that floor singers were made to feel unwelcome, and second class. In those days, the residents were no better (or worse) than many who wanted to do spots but felt excluded.

2. I did continue to go there while I was working in that area, because they booked top class guests. But I left the guitar at home, and didn't bother to try performing, and in due course found other clubs with good guests, AND plenty of enthusiasm for floor singers too, at which time I dropped my visits to Dartford.

In spite of his/her rather rude and agressive tone, GUEST 0732 and 0950 does have a good point. All club organisers run their clubs in the manner which best suits both their and the audience's needs, and the fact that Dartford still thrives after 35 years is proof absolute that its policies and format are achieving that in spades.

Now I can't speak as to the present day content, since I haven't been there since those early days in the seventies, but its continued success is self evident.

By the way, GUEST, not all floor singers are rank amateurs, muddling through half learned material played in three chords on an out of tune instrument.

Many of us are rather good at what we do, even to the point of getting booked fairly frequently as guests in clubs that recognise the existence of talented local performers. I, for one, do not sing dirges or indulge in navel gazing angst, and who knows, if space were made for floor singers, you might even have enjoyed an evening of song and humour from a guest artist you have not been given the chance to hear.

So you might like to practise a little of the tolerance you request from others, and admit that a few more floor spots could lead to good things happening. Just a thought!

Don T.


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Subject: RE: Dartford Folk Club
From: The Sandman
Date: 13 Sep 06 - 11:41 AM

to guest 13 sep 9 50am. ok but what you are forgetting are all the people that dont go there, for one reason or another,.
who possibly could make the club even more successful. The club isnt run just for you but presumably for all the people in the dartford and kent london area who    might like traditional music other than american [trad or modern].You do not own the club just because you attend it. Dick Miles


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Subject: RE: Dartford Folk Club
From: GUEST,sailorboy
Date: 13 Sep 06 - 12:31 PM

Strictly audience. The world will never be ready for any of my musical(?) endeavors.


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Subject: RE: Dartford Folk Club
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 13 Sep 06 - 01:08 PM

Well, that's starting to look like a pattern.


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Subject: RE: Dartford Folk Club
From: Dead Horse
Date: 13 Sep 06 - 03:41 PM

I would go along and check the place out, but while viewing the website, I saw a piccy of someone who I would rather not see again.
Should that individual and myself ever meet, blood would be spilled.
In the meantime, give my worst regards to Vic.


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Subject: RE: Dartford Folk Club
From: Dartford Warbler
Date: 13 Sep 06 - 03:45 PM

Come on Dead Horse, you're wicked :-) Please give us a clue?


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Subject: RE: Dartford Folk Club
From: breezy
Date: 13 Sep 06 - 04:11 PM

How was the A J C gig then ?

He'll be in St Albans on Sunday 24th Sept

plus

support from the residents: George Papavgeris, Chris Flegg, the ref and Moses

probably thats 'll be enough

and they is all gigging artistes, so a good evenings entertainment is assured.

I'm at Staines on monday 18th
plus guru and moses
as
the 'Breezettes' !!!

and Simon Hopper !!

dare you to come


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Subject: RE: Dartford Folk Club
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Sep 06 - 04:37 PM

Capt birdseye. It's entirely up to Alan and Pam who run the club for love and don't make a penny out of it. I can't understand this attitude that they owe anyone anything. It's THEIR club and they can do what they like with it. And I'm not rude, I'm forthright!


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Subject: RE: Dartford Folk Club
From: The Sandman
Date: 13 Sep 06 - 05:25 PM

Yes, read me carefully I HAVE NEVER SAID THEY OWE ANYONE ANYTHING.   I Said Alan and PAM are very dedicated people who have given a lot of people pleasure , but it does not mean the club is not open to minor Improvements.
OF COURSE ITS THEIR CLUB etc and they run it in a professional and business like way[ even though they dont take any financial reward]they need, like any business to know why a proportion of people dont like the club and go elsewhere, thats good business practice.. now next time I am in the dartford area [ I now live in Ireland ]I WILL RING UP ALAN AND PAM AND BOOK A FLOOR SPOT. I am sure I will enjoy their company, they are two people with a genuine love of music who have put alot of hard work into the club.
like JON MCNAMARA AT BISHOPS STORTFORD. TedPoole at Swindon. Gren Blatherwick in Nottingham, RonAngel in Stockton, other people who have organised clubs for over Thirty years or more FAIR PLAY TO THEM ALL.
I will now be forthright with you, I NEVER said they owed anyone anything, but for any club to continue to be a success, they need to be aware, if there can be ways of making the club better .
anyone who says its their club and they can do what they like with it is correct, but stupid and un business like, which is why the club is much better run by Alan and Pam than your good self.DickMiles


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Subject: RE: Dartford Folk Club
From: melodeonboy
Date: 13 Sep 06 - 05:26 PM

As someone who's never been to Dartford Folk Club (not that I've deliberately avoided it - I just haven't managed to get there) I can't comment directly on what goes on there. However, as someone who would like to go there at some stage and who would like a floor spot when I do, I'm rather concerned that a significant number of contributors to this thread who have been there seem to feel that floor singers are not made to feel particularly welcome, and at least one contributor seems to feel that this is not such a bad thing!

I frequently go to other folk clubs in the area and both my songs and I have always been warmly welcomed. Am I likely to be disappointed/disenchanted if I go to Dartford F.C.? Should I just suck it and see and form my own opinions?


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Subject: RE: Dartford Folk Club
From: The Sandman
Date: 13 Sep 06 - 05:47 PM

THIRTY YEARS AGO , I just used to turn up and was always welcomed.
If I were you, I WOULD RING UP IN ADVANCE, and have a chat with Alan or Pam , they are very friendly people who are probably completely unaware that their club has this reputation, and probably upset by this. My own experience as I say, has always been positive.
   Anyway as there is no such thing as bad publicity, only publicity lets hope this thread, makes Dartford more successful. Melodeon boy thers nothing like going to see for yourself , but give a ring first.
dick miles.


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Subject: RE: Dartford Folk Club
From: treewind
Date: 13 Sep 06 - 06:26 PM

I always check with a club before turning up for a floor spot.

Especially after an embarrassing incident where we didn't do that, turned up at a club we hadn't been to before, carrying instruments, and found it was a concert style club with guests + support only.

Never again...
Anahata


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Subject: RE: Dartford Folk Club
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Sep 06 - 06:38 PM

Basically Dartford is a concert style club. More power to its elbow.
We need them as much as we need the other types of club. Now let's let it lie eh?


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Subject: RE: Dartford Folk Club
From: Dartford Warbler
Date: 13 Sep 06 - 07:26 PM

After a very enjoyable evening with Anthony John Clarke on 12 September it is the turn of guest Eddie Walker on Tuesday 19 September.

Eddie comes from the North East of England and has been a regular guest at Dartford Folk Club for many years. He has won awards for his song writing, but his repertoire is much wider than just his own songs and embraces a wide range of different genres including old country blues, rags, hillbilly, original songs and instrumentals. Eddie is an impressive guitar picker and an irrepressible entertainer!

Everyone welcome. Club membership not necessary.

Anyone wishing to do a floorspot is advised to ring first in order to avoid disappointment. (See website for Tele. number)

12 (Yes! Twelve!) real ale hand pumps on the bar!

http://www.DartfordFolk.org.uk


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Subject: RE: Dartford Folk Club
From: The Sandman
Date: 13 Sep 06 - 10:58 PM

Dartford Warbler, your name reminds me of one of Dartfords floor singers of thirty years ago, Singing Robin ,. you,r not one and the same are you.


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Subject: RE: Dartford Folk Club
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 14 Sep 06 - 04:51 AM

I discussed this thread with a muso just the other day. He is a very very fine player and singer, powerful, versatile and expressive in both respects, has done the occasional paid gig (indeed used to do rather a lot at certain stages of his past), is better than most professionals and was quite well known to the club as he used to help one of the former club residents (who subsequently turned full time pro) to get his pick patterns right. He also does largely American stuff. Rips off a murderous version of "Bluesleeves". In short, the perfect floor performer for the club.

He phoned to book a floorspot. He was awarded one. He got stuck in traffic and arrived 10 minutes late (ie while the residents were playing) and was told he was not allowed to do his floorspot as he did not turn up on time. The residents played on. He walked out. I don't think he's been back.

It's not my story, I didn't make it up, don't shoot the messenger.


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Subject: RE: Dartford Folk Club
From: stallion
Date: 14 Sep 06 - 05:41 AM

Seems to me like there is some confusing information going on here. Firstly it ought to be clear in the schpeil on the website that everyone's request for a floor spot would be considered if booked in advance, if the organisers think the individual doesn't fit the bill (for whatever reason) then they may decline on the pretext of having enough performers. Secondly, resident performers are the mainstay of all clubs, the more one has, generally speaking, the more successfull that club will be, so, it is important to satisfy their need to perform. (by the way, I don't hold that all residents are not egotistical but that is another issue). Possibly the true measure of a "club" is how altruistic the residents would be if one or more were prepared to stand down in favour of a surprise guest who they deemed good enough. On the other hand performers should not be so precious either, I recently saw El Greko travel zillions of miles to do a three song floor spot, just like every one else except the residents who cut there's down to two to accomodate the extra guests. Lastly, folk is a "broad church" but within that there are people with narrower interests, for someone who likes a regular night out then who is performing matters, so it shouldn't come as any shock that some clubs reflect that narrower interest whatever that might be. My personal interests are varied being a fan of live music per se, and a wider participation such as informal sessions, however, I perform (with others) English Trad. because that is all I am sufficiently good at and I do enjoy performing! My pet hate is poor, introspective, songwriters but one has to listen in case you miss a nugget, and, after all, thay have sat, just as uneasily, through our stuff.
So, now I know Dartford isn't for us, for no other reason than we don't probably do what the audience like and they are paying to get in, this isn't personal it is good sense.
Peter


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Subject: RE: Dartford Folk Club
From: Dartford Warbler
Date: 14 Sep 06 - 07:55 AM

Captain Birdseye asked: Dartford Warbler, your name reminds me of one of Dartfords floor singers of thirty years ago, Singing Robin ,. you,r not one and the same are you.

Sorry Captain, I'm not your man/woman/bird ! :-)


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Subject: RE: Dartford Folk Club
From: Girl Friday
Date: 17 Sep 06 - 08:40 PM

I can't believe the ammount of mud slinging on this thread. Pam and Alan have my sympathy... Tone Deaf Leopard have had a dose of it in the past. The previous posting however does dissapoint me. We try to make sure that we arrive at a club where we have pre-booked at least 15 minutes before the start-time. We were late arriving at Byfleet once, but they kept a spot for us, even searching us out, as the MC that night didn't know us. Getting stuck in traffic and being a mere ten minutes late should not preclude that performer from playing. I am surprised that Pam didn't intervene.


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Subject: RE: Dartford Folk Club
From: Dartford Warbler
Date: 18 Sep 06 - 01:55 PM

May I suggest that anyone who has gripes or second-hand complaints about how the club is run or events that happen therein, should contact the organisers. Both an email address and a telephone number are available on the website: http://www.DartfordFolk.org.uk

In the real world (outside Mudcat) the organisers receive a great deal more bouquets than the barbed wire dished out here.

And BTW, don't forget that on Tuesday 19 September, it is the turn of Eddie Walker to entertain the folks at the club.


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Subject: RE: Dartford Folk Club
From: GUEST,rogerthechorister
Date: 18 Sep 06 - 09:33 PM

I used to like the singaround nights they did in August but now they shut for the festival season.


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Subject: RE: Dartford Folk Club
From: Dartford Warbler
Date: 25 Sep 06 - 04:06 PM

After a very enjoyable evening with Eddie Walker on 12 September it is the turn of guests:

Steve Gillette & Cindy Mangsen on Tuesday 26 September 2006.

"They are a husband and wife duo hailing from Vermont. Steve plays the guitar with impressive technique and sings easily in a mellow voice. His songs, one of which is Darcy Farrow, have been sung by dozens of major artists. Cindy plays guitar, banjo, concertina and mountain dulcimer and her voice makes a song come very much alive, whether it is a traditional song, hymn, or contemporary piece."

  • Everyone welcome. Club membership not necessary.
  • Anyone wishing to do a floorspot is advised to ring first in order to avoid disappointment. (See website for Tele. number)
  • 12 (Yes! Twelve!) real ale hand pumps on the bar!
  • Dartford Folk Club website

(Note: There has been some discussion about Steve and Cindy on another thread)


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Subject: RE: Dartford Folk Club
From: billybob
Date: 25 Sep 06 - 05:48 PM

Oh Captain ( Dick Miles) memories, memories, I am taken back to when you were a floor singer and Pease Pudding were the guests!Those were the days!
Well done to Pam and Allan still keeping the club going, Farningham, Gravesend all gone, but they still give up their time to keep this great club bringing in an audience, they must be doing something right!Wish I lived nearer.
I remember when the Crayfolk ran the club and John Barker had to get a floor singer off with a long hook at verse 40ish of a very long dirge.Anyone know who it was?
Wendy


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Subject: RE: Dartford Folk Club
From: GUEST,wordy
Date: 25 Sep 06 - 06:34 PM

Steve Gillette's a great writer. get along there!


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Subject: RE: Dartford Folk Club
From: Dartford Warbler
Date: 03 Oct 06 - 09:53 AM

After a very enjoyable evening with Steve Gillette & Cindy Mangsen on 26 September, it is the turn of guests:

Nancy Kerr & James Fagan

on Tuesday 3 October 2006

Everyone welcome. Club membership not necessary.

Anyone wishing to do a floorspot is advised to ring first in order to avoid disappointment. (See website for Tele. number)

12 (Yes! Twelve!) real ale hand pumps on the bar!

Dartford Folk Club website

(Today, is the 33rd Birthday of the club!)


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Subject: RE: Dartford Folk Club
From: The Sandman
Date: 04 Oct 06 - 09:19 AM

hi, billybob, wendy, glad your keeping ok.


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Subject: RE: Dartford Folk Club
From: billybob
Date: 04 Oct 06 - 07:53 PM

Hi Captain
yes I am well.
Had a long chat with the Bishop of Welling last night all about Dartford club, he was trying to remember pre. Pam and allan when John Barker moved the club from the Railway to ???? Royal Victoria? Anyone know?
Wendy


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Subject: RE: Dartford Folk Club
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 05 Oct 06 - 01:47 AM

As Slats or ask Dilligaf to ask Slats.


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Subject: RE: Dartford Folk Club
From: GUEST,Dino Dini
Date: 07 Oct 06 - 06:57 AM

Hello. Yes I used to go there when it was at the pub just by the railway station, most weeks. I used to bring my guitar and sing. I always found it intimidating... as a performer in his early Twenties, as a songer-songwriter I found it virtually impossible to get any respect. OK this is the way it felt. I actually remember overhearing Pam once say something about not likeing Singer Songwriters singing about themselves. I even recall something about Johh Martyn having once appeared and being dismissed for a similar reason. John Martyn was a major influence in my music. If my memory is shakey on the details, appologies in advance... it was a long time ago.

The fact that the widely regarded Paul Simon who is called by many the greatest living american singer-songwriter actually writes the vast majority of his songs in the first person is perhaps an indication of prejudice?

Still the thing to remember is that it was a folk club. There were no such things as "Open Mikes" back then, and I went to the club because it was the only outlet to try my songs in front of people. I was good enough to become a resident at Orpington folk club for a while, and I plugged away at the scene until eventually I got eroded by the prejudices against "anything new" that was prevelant throughout the whole scene. Eventually in at 25 I gave up.

3 years ago I came back. I am in the South West now, and Open Mikes are common. With the opportunity to practice my craft in front of friendly audiences I have blossomed in a way that was impossible in the 1980's in South East London, where the only place a songer-songwriter could play was at folk clubs.

The folk clubs are what they are: they have their own set of unwritten rules and their own cliques, and own trends "The organiser likes Tom Paxton, so everyone sing some Tom Paxton". Residents are there to extend and promote themselves and newcommers are competition. We all know what the rules are and the orgainisers have every right to run a show as they see fit. However I am a great one for calling things what they really are. Dartford Folk Club was always worked like this, in my opinion.

Good well known guests were brought in which attracted big crowds and the reward the residents got was to play to packed rooms. To maintain the label of folk club, new commers are declared welcome, but in practice the climate is such that they will soon go away unless they can play the politics of the system and promote themselves somehow, or are happy to just tag along being tolerated.

Fortunately there are many more places to play these days if you are a singer-songwriter than folk clubs, so there really is no problem. The organisers obviously have done wonderful work and are to be respected for it, and indeed I admire anyone who does something that good for live music. But I could never have called Dartford friendly to performers twenty years ago, and unfortunately it appears that nothing has changed. The comments I see here about how newcommers are treated just muatch all I remember of the club. It's fine, people like me should simply go elsewhere....


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Subject: RE: Dartford Folk Club
From: GUEST,Dino Dini
Date: 07 Oct 06 - 07:02 AM

Correction: "But I could never have called Dartford friendly to performers twenty years ago"

should read:

"But I could never have called Dartford friendly to new floor spot performers twenty years ago


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Subject: RE: Dartford Folk Club
From: Girl Friday
Date: 07 Oct 06 - 08:07 PM

Dino Dini. Do I know you? I have been going to orpington Folk Club, and ben running Orpington Friday Folk for nineteen years.

Sue


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Subject: RE: Dartford Folk Club
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Oct 06 - 08:39 PM

The question is "singing about themselves". Young people in general have nothing to say that is of deep interest to most listeners if they are writing about their love lives or their angst. If they are singing in the first person to create a story about a character, then they are much more likely to be interesting. Songs about not getting laid, loved or lauded are boring. Tell me a story and you can use the first person as Simon, Ochs, Paxton, Chapin etc did brilliantly, but you have to be living a really different and exciting life to tell me about your 22 year old self in a song.
Clubs like Dartford are not there to service floor singers they are they to service a paying audience that knows what they want.
I am very glad you are finding an outlet for your voice somewhere else. That's what we started when we began the folk clubs back in the 60's. power to your elbow. Sing your songs, find your audience. Good luck.


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Subject: RE: Dartford Folk Club
From: The Sandman
Date: 08 Oct 06 - 04:56 AM

I am sorry, but my experience of Dartford folk club was very differrent from dino dino.
I was a a floorsinger there thirty years ago and Pam and Alan always gave me a floor spot,even though I was singing traditional material unaccompanied, or with concertina.
they were very encouraging and helpful[ perhaps they recoignised talent when they saw it]yours arrogantly Dick Miles.


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Subject: RE: Dartford Folk Club
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 08 Oct 06 - 02:10 PM

I cannot believe Dino Dini has been at least within rubbing distance of folk music for that long, and has not yet grasped the difference between folk music and singer songwriter. I do not (hereby) assert that one is better than the other, but would you expect pork to be labelled beef or chicken - or sold as such?

I'm not sure that Dartford has ever been that floorsinger-friendly (certainly traddie-floorsinger-friendly) and while Dartford may have found a niche in playing to the paying audience many folk clubs have a different remit.

However, I see Tom Lewis is there shortly, so if I am timely passing on my way back from something very square that night, I may pop in (not armed with a guitar) to listen. He was excellent at Tenterden this weekend.


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Subject: RE: Dartford Folk Club
From: nickvan-cody
Date: 08 Oct 06 - 02:26 PM

Dear Dino,I also played at Dartford during the times that you are talking about,and yes,Dartford was a hard place to play,but I thought it was more, that if your face did'dt fit not that you or your music was not good enough.I also played at Orpington and found that it was more a singers club with guests,and I was always made welcome.You ,I remember got a good reception when you played with another guy,I cant remember his name ,but the song sticks in my head,the other person sang and played guitar you sang backing and played lead to him ,it was a song called I'm living on a knife edge.(I think ) So although Dartford is not for me ,I still remember hearing you and a memorable evening hearing Johnny Coppin for the first time ! I would love to go back if I am ever in the area and see what it is like now, as if its still going after all these years they must be doing something right,its just we dont like it !
Best wishes to you all Nick.


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Subject: RE: Dartford Folk Club
From: The Sandman
Date: 08 Oct 06 - 03:50 PM

to richard bridge,I repeat I was made welcome if you dont believe me ask billybob.


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Subject: RE: Dartford Folk Club
From: Girl Friday
Date: 08 Oct 06 - 06:50 PM

Dear Nick. You will find that OFC is still a singers club with guests, though these days they have mostly just the residents on guest nights. Singers Nights are open to all, and we get a good selection of performers. I run the Orpington Friday Club and both websites are linked. You'll be made welcome at either, or both.

both Orpington Clubs


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Subject: RE: Dartford Folk Club
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 08 Oct 06 - 08:14 PM

Cap'n, you have misunderstood my emphasis. I did not say that you were not made welcome.


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Subject: RE: Dartford Folk Club
From: billybob
Date: 09 Oct 06 - 07:07 PM

I remember Dick as a floor singer at Dartford on lots of occasions, he was always welcomed by Pam and Alan as were other floor singers. some may not have sung often, more to do with a late arrival and the list being full!The great thing about Dartford in the 70's and more than likely still today was the quality of the guests so if you did a "spot" you were in great company!
I can think of many floor singers who started out at Dartford and Farningham who are now well known performers on the folk scene thanks to the experience in those two clubs
wendy


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Subject: RE: Dartford Folk Club
From: GUEST,Dino Dini
Date: 11 Oct 06 - 07:33 PM

Sue: you said:

"Dino Dini. Do I know you? I have been going to orpington Folk Club, and ben running Orpington Friday Folk for nineteen years.

Sue"

I was a resident at Orpington for a while, but stopped about 19 years ago. It was while it was at the White Hart. Also it did not meet on Fridays. Steve Jennings at the very least will remember me.


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Subject: RE: Dartford Folk Club
From: GUEST,Dino Dini
Date: 11 Oct 06 - 07:43 PM

re:

"The question is "singing about themselves". Young people in general have nothing to say that is of deep interest to most listeners if they are writing about their love lives or their angst. If they are singing in the first person to create a story about a character, then they are much more likely to be interesting. Songs about not getting laid, loved or lauded are boring. Tell me a story and you can use the first person as Simon, Ochs, Paxton, Chapin etc did brilliantly, but you have to be living a really different and exciting life to tell me about your 22 year old self in a song.
Clubs like Dartford are not there to service floor singers they are they to service a paying audience that knows what they want.
I am very glad you are finding an outlet for your voice somewhere else. That's what we started when we began the folk clubs back in the 60's. power to your elbow. Sing your songs, find your audience. Good luck."

This come across as so condescending... and it is nonsense anyway...

"I was 21 years when I wrote this song, I am 22 now but I won't be for long... time hurrys on.. and the leaves that are green turn to brown..."

Listen to early Paul Simon songs sometime.

Meanwhile, if a club does not want to encourage songer-songwriters it should make that clear. After all, you say "Clubs like Dartford are not there to service floor singers". Sorry, but if floor singers are invited they should be made welcome. You are just re-enforcing the very thing I said. And good luck to you, now that you are in your 60's and I am in my 40's. Incidentally I sing some of the same songs I did back then. Remember "Friday the First"? It goes down well with audiences everywhere. I admit I was not as good 19 years ago as I am now... but live music clubs that INVITE floor singers SHOULD NOT DISCOURAGE NEW TALENT.


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Subject: RE: Dartford Folk Club
From: GUEST,Dino DIni
Date: 11 Oct 06 - 07:51 PM

From: Captain Birdseye:

"I am sorry, but my experience of Dartford folk club was very differrent from dino dino.
I was a a floorsinger there thirty years ago and Pam and Alan always gave me a floor spot,even though I was singing traditional material unaccompanied, or with concertina.
they were very encouraging and helpful[ perhaps they recoignised talent when they saw it]yours arrogantly Dick Miles.
"

Do not be sorry, but I should point out that 30 years ago is not the same thing at 19 years ago. Perhaps you are the same generation as the organisers, and so found perfect acceptance. Although having said that I am sure that if I performed folk songs or Tom Paxton covers, I might have been forgiven for it. Unfortunately I was trying to develop myself as a Singer Songwriter. But I got the message and never went back to Dartford. It is just annoying that I wasted so much time and effort there...


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Subject: RE: Dartford Folk Club
From: Girl Friday
Date: 11 Oct 06 - 08:05 PM

Dino.... Yes Oprington Folk Club did, and still does meet on Thursdays.I know Steve Jenning well. Ted Hantdley (Triality) is still there, although he now has a duo with Ivan North. Anne is still there. She married Keith Halford, who's not there now, and they have 2 daughters. I run Orpington Friday Folk which is an offspring. Check them both out here.
orpington folk clubs


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Subject: RE: Dartford Folk Club
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Oct 06 - 08:07 PM

Richard Bridge:

"I cannot believe Dino Dini has been at least within rubbing distance of folk music for that long, and has not yet grasped the difference between folk music and singer songwriter."

Erm... so you are sayiong that Singer Songwriters can not create folk music?

"I do not (hereby) assert that one is better than the other, but would you expect pork to be labelled beef or chicken - or sold as such?"

Perhaps the club should simply make it clear then: a big notice saying "Singer Songwriters not welcome". Oh hang on... but the club books singer songwriters. Sorry you are not making much sense.

"I'm not sure that Dartford has ever been that floorsinger-friendly (certainly traddie-floorsinger-friendly) and while Dartford may have found a niche in playing to the paying audience many folk clubs have a different remit.

However, I see Tom Lewis is there shortly, so if I am timely passing on my way back from something very square that night, I may pop in (not armed with a guitar) to listen. He was excellent at Tenterden this weekend.
"

Warning: his site says "If you like songs and stories of the sea, new and old". You may want to double check what new means. He might have written some himself thus casting himself out of Folk Music.

Yep it is the same old.

As I said in my post, fortunately there are outlets these days for singer songwriters, like the Old Down Acoustic club in Somerset where I played a couple of songs tonight (and got a great reaction and many compliments, ironically the second song was an instrumental I wrote at about the time I gave up the scene 19 years ago called "I Can't Get a Gig at my Local Folk Club Blues".

They call it an acoustic club. It is very popular and successful. Once a month they book acts for a featured spot too. The Amazing Mr. Smith is on 1st November, for example. They really do welcome floor singers though, even if they write their own songs.

My problem back then was that such things as acoustic clubs did not exist 19 years ago in my area. It was folk clubs or nothing at all.

But like I already said... I would have no complaint at all if the organisers simply had made it clear that people like me were not welcome. Why pretend that Floor Singers are welcome when they are not? Why not clarify the poistion on Singer-Songriters? This is the crucial point, not the definiton of Folk Music.


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Subject: RE: Dartford Folk Club
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Oct 06 - 08:15 PM

Nick: you said:

"Dear Dino,I also played at Dartford during the times that you are talking about,and yes,Dartford was a hard place to play,but I thought it was more, that if your face did'dt fit not that you or your music was not good enough.I also played at Orpington and found that it was more a singers club with guests,and I was always made welcome.You ,I remember got a good reception when you played with another guy,I cant remember his name ,but the song sticks in my head,the other person sang and played guitar you sang backing and played lead to him ,it was a song called I'm living on a knife edge.(I think ) So although Dartford is not for me ,I still remember hearing you and a memorable evening hearing Johnny Coppin for the first time ! I would love to go back if I am ever in the area and see what it is like now, as if its still going after all these years they must be doing something right,its just we dont like it !
Best wishes to you all Nick."

I am honored for you to have remembered me. The guy was probably Richard Hopewell with whome I collaborated for a while. Oh yes I got some good responses from the audience at times. Even the female part of the resdient Duo Opus 2 (I can't remember her name) said she really liked my Song "Magpies" once.   But it always felt like I was treading on egg shells, regardless of what the audience response was.


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Subject: RE: Dartford Folk Club
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 12 Oct 06 - 02:29 AM

Well, Dino Dini, if you want to perform in public, you will always be walking on eggs. "Some days you're the Louisville slugger, some days you're the ball".

C'mon, you really don't know the difference between folksong and contemporary acoustic?

Dartford's forte for at least 30 years has been American traditional, and contemporary but established American acoustic-style music. Most of which is not my favourite genre. But it's good at what it does. I, personally, don't have to love it to realise and accept that.


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Subject: RE: Dartford Folk Club
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Oct 06 - 06:50 AM

Then it should make that clear shouldn't it?

But in any case you have completely ignored what I said and carried on anyway repeating yourself. I said the definition of Folk Music is not the point.


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Subject: RE: Dartford Folk Club
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Oct 06 - 07:07 AM

Oh by the way, I remember this guy who every week without fail would sing Bottle Of Wine by Tom Paxton. Every week. I can't remember his name, not sure if he was actually a resident. But every week we would sit through it.

Several problems here:

1. Without wanting to disrespect anyone, the performer would probably have admitted themselves that they were not of Resident Quality.

2. Every week got a bit of a bore.

3. Tom Paxton is a Contemporary Singer Songwriter. He is still alive, and worse, is not called Anon. Thus the song is actually not Folk Music.

4. The song is writen in the First Person

5. Although not about adolescent agnst, it is about the angst of being an alchoholic bum, which I sumbit is not really any more interesting.


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Subject: RE: Dartford Folk Club
From: GUEST,Purple Sandpiper
Date: 02 Nov 06 - 08:13 PM



After a very enjoyable evenings with Nancy Kerr & James Fagan, Tom Lewis, Jim Reynolds, Dana & Susan Robinson and Shep Woolley, it is the turn of guest:

Martin Simpson

on Tuesday 7 November 2006

Everyone welcome. Club membership not necessary.

Anyone wishing to do a floorspot is advised to ring first in order to avoid disappointment. (See website for Tele. number)

12 (Yes! Twelve!) real ale hand pumps on the bar!

Dartford Folk Club website



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Subject: RE: Dartford Folk Club
From: Anne Lister
Date: 03 Nov 06 - 04:57 AM

Just been perusing this thread and thought that at least part of the problem is that "singer/songwriter" is such a huge category, ranging from Tom Waits and Elvis Costello to Paul McCartney and Michael Jackson and then to Paul Simon, Jez Lowe and Tom Paxton. That's not even dipping into the jazz and blues areas or very far into the acoustic fringes that have been developing with category names such as psychedelic folk. So a club is unlikely to have a blanket category of accepting OR rejecting singer/songwriters (and I was singing in folk clubs in south east London in the 70s, 80s and 90s and didn't come up against any of that kind of rejection) but they may well (as now) have been choosy about which singer/songwriters they decided to book and welcome. That's show business!

As to Dartford folk club - I was made welcome as a floor singer on the few occasions I went there, and when I was playing there as Anonyma (very far from trad or American folk). They haven't rushed, so far, to give me a gig but then I haven't pushed for one, either.

But do go and see Martin Simpson. He might even sing one of my songs as well as several of his own!

Anne (Lister)
who writes songs and sings them and has done for a long time!


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Subject: RE: Dartford Folk Club
From: GUEST,Purple Sandpiper
Date: 03 Nov 06 - 03:22 PM

I will make sure Icarus is requested ;-) Fantastic song, still listen to the Nic Jones version at regular intervals.

Was Mary(?) the other half of Anonyma? Do either of you have a website? If so, I will ask the webmaster to create a link in the "Hall of Fame"


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Subject: RE: Dartford Folk Club
From: GUEST,Purple Sandpiper
Date: 03 Nov 06 - 03:31 PM

Lazy me, it is all there at http://www.annelister.com including a links to Anonyma and Mary's website.


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Subject: RE: Dartford Folk Club
From: Anne Lister
Date: 04 Nov 06 - 07:03 AM

Thanks for the interest, Purple S ....and give my best regards to Martin when you see him!

Anne


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Subject: RE: Dartford Folk Club
From: Girl Friday
Date: 05 Nov 06 - 09:17 PM

Great to see professionals coming on to express oppinions. Goes to show what a well respected folk club Dartford is!


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Subject: RE: Dartford Folk Club
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Nov 06 - 05:26 AM

Respected it may be, but it is not really a folk club...:P


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Subject: RE: Dartford Folk Club
From: GUEST,wordy
Date: 06 Nov 06 - 06:57 AM

Not as you might understand it guest, but it certainly is as far as I'm concerned. One of the very best.


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Subject: RE: Dartford Folk Club
From: Dartford Warbler
Date: 13 Nov 06 - 09:53 AM





Martin Simpson's performance on 7 November went very well apart from the air conditioning system that was playing in a different key to the one that Martin wanted :-) He very kindly played my request - Anne Lister's Icarus. Randy Newman's Louisiana - 1927 was as poignant as the day it was written and when Martin first recorded it.

It is the turn of guest:

Johnny Silvo

on Tuesday 14 November 2006

Everyone welcome. Club membership not necessary.

Anyone wishing to do a floorspot is advised to ring first in order to avoid disappointment. (See website for Tele. number)

12 (Yes! Twelve!) real ale hand pumps on the bar!

Dartford Folk Club website



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Subject: RE: Dartford Folk Club
From: Girl Friday
Date: 13 Nov 06 - 10:32 AM

What planet is Guest..."p" on? OF COURSE DARTFORD IS A FOLK CLUB!!!!!It's patrons are welcome at my FOLK CLUB any time.
details


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Subject: RE: Dartford Folk Club
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Nov 06 - 02:49 PM

I was being cheeky. Read the long discussion above...


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Subject: RE: Dartford Folk Club
From: Dartford Warbler
Date: 27 Nov 06 - 06:12 PM

After very enjoyable evenings with Johnny Silvo and Last Night's Fun, it is the turn of guests:

Kathryn Roberts & Sean Lakeman

on Tuesday 28 November 2006

Everyone welcome. Club membership not necessary.

Anyone wishing to do a floorspot is advised to ring first in order to avoid disappointment. (See website for Tele. number)

12 (Yes! Twelve!) real ale hand pumps on the bar!

Dartford Folk Club website



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Subject: RE: Dartford Folk Club
From: Dartford Warbler
Date: 27 Nov 06 - 06:19 PM

Just remembered that Megson are due to a floor spot on 28 November and guess the opportunity for any others will be severely limited.


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Subject: RE: Dartford Folk Club
From: Dartford Warbler
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 01:46 PM



After a very enjoyable evening with Kathryn Roberts & Sean Lakeman and a floor-spot from Megson, it is the turn of guests:

The Spike Drivers

on Tuesday 5 December 2006

Everyone welcome. Club membership not necessary.

Anyone wishing to do a floorspot is advised to ring first in order to avoid disappointment. (See website for Tele. number)

12 (Yes! Twelve!) real ale hand pumps on the bar!

Dartford Folk Club website



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Subject: RE: Dartford Folk Club
From: Dartford Warbler
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 01:35 PM







Phil Beer
(with special guest Emily Sanders of Isambarde)


on Tuesday 12 December 2006

Everyone welcome. Club membership not necessary.

Anyone wishing to do a floorspot is advised to ring first in order to avoid disappointment. (See website for Tele. number)

12 (Yes! Twelve!) real ale hand pumps on the bar!

Dartford Folk Club website



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Subject: RE: Dartford Folk Club
From: GUEST,The Dartford Warbler
Date: 17 Feb 07 - 01:38 PM




Rainbow Chasers with Ashley Hutchings

on Tuesday 20 February 2007

Everyone welcome. Club membership not necessary.

Anyone wishing to do a floorspot is advised to ring first in order to avoid disappointment. (See website for Tele. number)

12 (Yes! Twelve!) real ale hand pumps on the bar and (at least) 4 draft ciders and perry!

Dartford Folk Club website



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Subject: RE: Dartford Folk Club
From: Leadfingers
Date: 17 Feb 07 - 02:53 PM

Its a shame you're so far away ! A three hour drive home is a PITA !


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Subject: RE: Dartford Folk Club
From: Leadfingers
Date: 17 Feb 07 - 02:53 PM

But I WILL have a sneaky 100 th !!


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Subject: RE: Dartford Folk Club
From: GUEST,The Dartford Warbler
Date: 25 Jul 08 - 08:38 PM




Dave Burland

on Tuesday 29 July 2008

Everyone welcome. Club membership not necessary.

Anyone wishing to do a floorspot is advised to ring first in order to avoid disappointment. (See website for Tele. number)

12 (Yes! Twelve!) real ale hand pumps on the bar and quite often(at least) 4 draft ciders and perry!

Dartford Folk Club website



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Subject: RE: Dartford Folk Club
From: breezy
Date: 26 Jul 08 - 03:26 AM

Congratulations on booking one of the finest singers

Has he retired from working then. is this a vacation gig??

Hope you have a fantastic turn out for a fantastic club.


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Subject: RE: Dartford Folk Club
From: Dartford Warbler
Date: 26 Jul 08 - 03:58 PM

Thank you for your kind comments about our award winning club Breezy.

The information I have is that he wants to get back into performing again after a spell at a different occupation.

Not sure how many other places in the south he is doing. Will find out on Tuesday.

IMHO he is one of the finest performers of traditional song and also more modern works such as those of Richard Thompson.

Being the last guest night before we go into sing-around mode for the August holiday we are not sure how many people will turn up. One reason for letting the good people of Mudcat land know about this one.


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