Shepley Spring Festival

Subject: Shepley Spring Festival
From: Alio
Date: 05 Sep 06 - 10:21 PM

Whilst we were at Fylde on Saturday we picked up a leaflet for the 1st Shepley Spring Festival - it's being organised by the folk who ran the original Holmfirth Festival, and does look as if it's going to be a really good weekend (May 18, 19 and 20th).

The guests booked so far are Waterson Carthy, John Tams and Barry Coope, Peatbog Faeries, The Devil's Interval, Random, Bedlam, Lisa Knapp and Will Noble.

The extra info on the back of the flier indicates that they're going to have a Folk Train, a Spread the Word competition, a Children's Festival, a Market Place, Youth Works, a Beer Festival - and the majority on a green field site.

More info is available on www.shepleyspringfestival.com (sorry,can't do the blue clicky thing!!)

Looks great so far - good luck to them - it can't be easy to make radical changes to a festival which has been going for so long.

Ali

Subject: RE: Shepley Spring Festival
From: GUEST,padgett
Date: 06 Sep 06 - 08:15 AM

NIce to hear from you Alio hope you are on the mend

I have to say that a venture of this nature will need lots of support as all facilities tents and amenities will need to be brought onto the site

A great deal of help will be needed to ensure success ~ I think we can assume that the guests will do their bit but lots of manpower will be needed also to cover all the tasks

I do wish the festival success and hope that the new setting will attract lots more people to the area. This should also bring revenue to the immediate area


I believe that Holmfirth F of F will also continue in early May 2007

Ray

Subject: RE: Shepley Spring Festival
From: Alio
Date: 06 Sep 06 - 09:29 AM

Hi Ray! Yes, I'm slowly getting back to normal - whatever normal is!!!
You're right - they will need lots of support - let's hope they get it. They deserve to do well - they've got some great ideas, and it's in a lovely setting.

Ali

Subject: RE: Shepley Spring Festival
From: r.padgett
Date: 06 Sep 06 - 12:14 PM

Alio
Indeed glad you are up and about!

Ray

Subject: RE: Shepley Spring Festival
From: Ned Ludd
Date: 06 Sep 06 - 04:50 PM

I too wish the Shepley festival all the best, though I have concerns about two festivals running so close together in both time and space. I also think that the organisers break from the town of Holmfirth could have been handled in a more forthright manner.
The General.

Subject: RE: Shepley Spring Festival
From: Alio
Date: 06 Sep 06 - 06:41 PM

Hi General! What do you mean? "Forthright"?

Subject: RE: Shepley Spring Festival
From: Alio
Date: 24 Feb 07 - 01:09 PM

I've not heard any more about this festival yet? Has anyone else?

Ali

Subject: RE: Shepley Spring Festival
From: Folkiedave
Date: 24 Feb 07 - 01:16 PM

There is certainly a website and I can confirm there will be a bookseller selling second hand folk books (me!!)

You can find details here

Subject: RE: Shepley Spring Festival
From: Soldier boy
Date: 24 Feb 07 - 07:44 PM

The Holmfirth Festival of Folk is being held on the previous weekend on 11, 12 and 13 May 2007.
I sincerely wish both ventures all the best and every success.
You can't have too much of a good thing but can you have too good of a much thing?

Subject: RE: Shepley Spring Festival
From: Ned Ludd
Date: 25 Feb 07 - 03:54 AM

Hi Alio,
Forthright- up front, without misleading. Start a new festival by all means but without attempts to scupper the existing one.

Subject: RE: Shepley Spring Festival
From: nutty
Date: 25 Feb 07 - 04:07 AM

I would like to know what evidence you base that assertion on, Ned Ludd.

When splits like this happen there are always difficulties and I applaud Soldier Boy for his attitude in the previous post.

Subject: RE: Shepley Spring Festival
From: Cath
Date: 25 Feb 07 - 05:02 AM

There is plenty of evidence Nutty, you only have to look back through the threads on here, but I think we should now consider it as water under the bridge.

Holmfirth still has its Folk Festival, even though it has to be called Holmfirth Festival of Folk and Shepley will now have its own festival in a field.

Don't let's pretend that it will be anything like Holmfirth Folk Festival because it will be a totally different animal but we are happy in Holmfirth because we have returned to what the festival is all about with loads going on in the pubs and so many dance sides that we'll be falling over them in the street!

Subject: RE: Shepley Spring Festival
From: Ned Ludd
Date: 25 Feb 07 - 07:52 AM

As Cath said, water under the bridge. I was just defining what I meant by forthright for Alio. The more festivals the better!

Subject: RE: Shepley Spring Festival
From: danensis
Date: 25 Feb 07 - 02:26 PM

I hope there's not too much water under the bridge - remember what happened in 1852

John

Subject: RE: Shepley Spring Festival
From: r.padgett
Date: 25 Feb 07 - 02:49 PM

Is this a reference to the Bilberry Dam which over flowed and the river through Holmfirth that also flooded?

Subject: RE: Shepley Spring Festival
From: Cath
Date: 25 Feb 07 - 06:35 PM

The river was so high a week or so back that it wouldn't have needed to be much higher before the football pitch became a water polo pitch. But it won't be like that in May!

Subject: RE: Shepley Spring Festival
From: Alio
Date: 26 Feb 07 - 04:34 PM

Am I mistaken, or isn't this the original "existing" festival? Roy Bailey was the patron before, and still is! Or is it just me getting really confused?

Anyway, what a fantastic artists line up! All my favourites - brilliant! And the Folk train sounds good too - I always did enjoy that at Bridgnorth.

Ali

Subject: RE: Shepley Spring Festival
From: Cath
Date: 26 Feb 07 - 06:05 PM

How can it be Holmfirth Folk Festival? It is in Shepley in a field.
I believe the Folk Train is the Sheffield to Huddersfield train with an extra one or two trips but the station is a long way from the festival site. A little model train running round the field would be fun!

Subject: RE: Shepley Spring Festival
From: collierlad
Date: 26 Feb 07 - 06:40 PM

I think I would have to re-mortgage to go to this festival!

Subject: RE: Shepley Spring Festival
From: nutty
Date: 27 Feb 07 - 04:06 AM

I hope your optimism regarding the campsite is justified Cath.
I can remember at least one occasion when that football field seemed part of the river when I arrived on site on the Friday evening of the Festival (in May).

Subject: RE: Shepley Spring Festival
From: Folkiedave
Date: 27 Feb 07 - 04:17 AM

How can it be Holmfirth Folk Festival? It is in Shepley in a field

First words on the website says it is a brand new festival in Shepley.

Why should anyone think it has anything to do with Holmfirth?

It looks to me as if the organisers have scrupulously avoided the word!!

Subject: RE: Shepley Spring Festival
From: Alio
Date: 27 Feb 07 - 04:31 AM

Did you never go to Bridgnorth Kath? Their Festival Train which travelled across the area, with artists appearing on it (singing in the bar area), and then also performing in pubs at the stops, was the most sought after event of the whole weekend. You couldn't do that in a model train!

And the prices are much the same as many other festivals - once you've paid the full weekend price, you can go anywhere and see whoever you want, without having to pay. You're not having to fork out constantly over the weekend to get into various events. And it is one of the best line ups I've seen this eyar.

Ali

Subject: RE: Shepley Spring Festival
From: Folkiedave
Date: 27 Feb 07 - 06:43 AM

I think for the price of a season ticket it is a great line-up too. And I hate faffing about paying here, queueing for a ticket there, queueing to get in over here. Flash my season ticket and that's it.

And there will be the advantage of having a really high quality second-hand bookstall there too.

Subject: RE: Shepley Spring Festival
From: Cath
Date: 27 Feb 07 - 09:53 AM

The Festival Train (and I haven't been to Bridgnorth) is the normal Sheffield to Huddersfield train which consists of a couple of carriages. There may be musicians performing on it but it will be stopping at all the stations between Sheffield and Huddersfield, none of which to my knowledge, have pubs at them. That's all I'm trying to say so that people don't think it is a specially comissioned one - or so I am reliably informed byt someone in the train business.
And to Nutty, half an hour ago i found the field to be rather like a quagmire as I think most grassy areas will be but we have ordered the weather and by May it will have dried out, but not too much so that you can't get tent pegs in!

Subject: RE: Shepley Spring Festival
From: Cath
Date: 28 Feb 07 - 05:14 AM

Someone has suggested to me that it looks as if i am criticising the Shepley festival - please be assured that I'm not - I wish them well.
I was just concerned that Alio might have a picture of a Folk Train that wasn't born out in reality.

Subject: RE: Shepley Spring Festival
From: GUEST,local
Date: 28 Feb 07 - 06:26 AM

I'm sure your concern is genuine Cath....we couldn't possibly lead Alio to believe that the folk train is good idea and will be fun and entertaining and does in fact have quite a lot of good pubs nearby and at either end.....could we?

And according to the website there's a real ale bar being put on and the sword teams will be doing a train/pub crawl too.

Sounds brilliant!

Subject: RE: Shepley Spring Festival
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Mar 07 - 03:58 AM

There's a ridiculous rumour going round that guests at Shepley are asked to agree not to play within 40 miles of Shepley for two weeks before and two weeks after the festival. Could someone from the organisers confirm that this is or is not the case as this would rule out PLAYING in all of West Yorkshire, South Yorkshire, Greater Manchester, most of Derbyshire and large sections of Nottinghamshire, North Yorkshire, Cheshire and Staffordshire.

Subject: RE: Shepley Spring Festival
From: BB
Date: 01 Mar 07 - 02:15 PM

This is not that unusual, although 40 miles is perhaps a bit steep. Broadstairs, for instance, is 25 miles, but that's 3 months before the festival! Although, this clause may be negotiated with the Artistic Director.

Barbara

Subject: RE: Shepley Spring Festival
From: Folkiedave
Date: 01 Mar 07 - 02:17 PM

Not unusual - indeed some artists have it in their contracts.

Subject: RE: Shepley Spring Festival
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Mar 07 - 07:09 PM

Maybe it's not unusual - if you think organising a festival is

a)a business
or
b)competitive
or
c)some sort of ego massage.

Subject: RE: Shepley Spring Festival
From: Folkiedave
Date: 01 Mar 07 - 07:27 PM

Why not wait until the organisers have spoken rather than believing what someone has posted on Mudcat about the festival?

My comments were limited to what artists put in their contracts. And it happens.

Subject: RE: Shepley Spring Festival
From: BB
Date: 02 Mar 07 - 01:40 PM

While I'm sure that festival organisers don't see it as any of the three suggested perceptions, they have to maximise their income, otherwise the festival is liable to failure - so someone has to find the money, possibly from their own pockets, and there's no festival next year.

I believe the same sort of thing applies to clubs that book guests - however much enthusiasm, love and dedication you put into it as an organiser, you have to balance the books.

Barbara

Subject: RE: Shepley Spring Festival
From: Alio
Date: 02 Mar 07 - 05:13 PM

I put it into the Saddleworth contract - whilst I don't think it really applies to the local artists, if I'm paying a 4 figure sum for the big names, I don't want to find that they're appearing in the Greater Manchester area a month or 2 before our festival! As Barbara says, smaller festivals particularly, like ours, just can't afford to have that happen.

Ali

Subject: RE: Shepley Spring Festival
From: Folkiedave
Date: 02 Mar 07 - 05:55 PM

Talking to my daughter who works for a big pop type festival - it is standard in their contracts.

Subject: RE: Shepley Spring Festival
From: GUEST,guest selby
Date: 03 Mar 07 - 04:40 AM

They should rename Mudcat cafe into the knocking shop, every time someone does something positve up pops guest to knock it flat, criticise,or try to make fools out of people trying there best genrally for no reward apart from the joy of doing something positive.
Selby

Subject: RE: Shepley Spring Festival
From: GUEST,John Robinson
Date: 03 Mar 07 - 05:40 AM

I've just signed another arts centre contract. 15 mile exclusion zone for a period of 4 weeks either side of the booking. Distances and durations may vary but this is a common and perfectly acceptable contract clause.

Subject: RE: Shepley Spring Festival
From: GUEST,Derbyshire
Date: 03 Mar 07 - 03:09 PM

I think it's a good thing that we find out what goes on. I'd no idea this happens on such a scale and I used to be a festival organiser !

Subject: RE: Shepley Spring Festival
From: nutty
Date: 03 Mar 07 - 04:12 PM

I'm at a loss to understand why this should be of interest to anyone other than the festival organisers and the artists in question.

It is common practise for both festival and folk club bookings.

Subject: RE: Shepley Spring Festival
From: Folkiedave
Date: 03 Mar 07 - 04:35 PM

Subject: RE: Shepley Spring Festival
From: Folkiedave - PM
Date: 01 Mar 07 - 02:17 PM


Not unusual.

Subject: RE: Shepley Spring Festival
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Mar 07 - 08:09 AM

What I would like to know is who is paying for it all,and who loses out financialy if it fails

Subject: RE: Shepley Spring Festival
From: Alio
Date: 04 Mar 07 - 08:43 AM

Who's paying for what?

But let's get back to the festival, which looks brill. Does anyone know if there'll be a clothes stall in the craft Fair - preferably Doldrum's?

Ali

Subject: RE: Shepley Spring Festival
From: GUEST,local
Date: 04 Mar 07 - 08:58 AM

Why does anyone need to be negative about any of this?! It seems that if you give folkies a chance to see their music in as many places as possible and promote it in a positive way....they all get on their high horses and start slagging everyone off!

What ridiculous questions guest: 'who pays for it?', 'who loses out?'. Why should that be any of your concern anyway? The organisers of the festival are putting on an event that anyone can go to. If you don't want to buy a season ticket, you can buy individual tickets for concerts. If you don't want to spend any money, you can just enjoy free entertainment from dance teams etc around the village....as with most festivals (and dance teams usually do this for no money, but in exchange for festival tickets, and any money they collect goes back to the festival).

Anyone who organises any kind of event is more often than not putting themselves at risk. Ticket sales hopefully cover the event....perhaps a bit of funding to help out, but at the end of the day the organisers take the risk.

I suppose it has to be run as a business, but not a profit-making one. The festival has to cover itself so that it can happen again and any profit would be put back in to doing just that next year, with maybe bigger/more named artists. That's the way folk festivals work. There are barely any festival organisers on the folk scene who make a personal profit from what they do. Most are voluntary and put in an astounding amount of their free time, while also having full-time jobs and families, to putting something on for the community, because they are passinate about it.

Who would anyone go through the stress of organising a festival and having to deal with all the criticism/bad mouthing that goes on in forums like this unless they were 110% committed to making it work?

Why can't you be happy that such a great line-up of guests are on in your area and ENJOY it?! And two festivals in the same area in the same month...well we're being spoilt now. Much better than having to drive miles to another festival to get our folkie fix!

Can we not just try and shed the stereotypical grumpy/pedantic/sad/cliquey folkie image that the rest of the world sees and ENJOY OURSELVES??

Subject: RE: Shepley Spring Festival
From: Cath
Date: 04 Mar 07 - 01:29 PM

I've been reading about the exclusion clause with interest.

I can see the logic of not having your main line guests performing nearby too close to the date but to have it as a blanket exclusion makes no sense.

Surely it can be done with a bit of common sense.

In Holmfirth we considered Shona Kipling and Damien O"Kane but as they were booked for Shepley we didn't pursue it. Craig Morgan Robson were invited to Shepley but couldn't do it and wouldn't have anyway as they are booked for Holmfirth. But we do have some of the same people as Shepley or maybe Shepley has some of the same people as Holmfirth - who decides which way round?

Where it does bother me is where it affects artists who are trying to become better known and are trying to get bookings at festivals and clubs in the area to make the trip worthwhile. By imposing a 40 mile exclusion zone you are limiting their ability to work and making it harder for Folk Clubs to book emerging artists. You are also restricting all the many good clubs in the whole of Yorkshire and much of Lancashire and possibly even further afield.

But how do you enforce it? I've just had a look at a couple of festival sites and see that it has already been broken, big time in one case. Is someone sitting looking through the latest copies of Tykes and Stirrings to check the gig list? And what do you do about it?

For the vast majority of artists I really don't think it makes a ha'porth of difference - after all many folkies travel to many festivals and I'm prepared to bet that the guest lists are all pretty similar.

Subject: RE: Shepley Spring Festival
From: GUEST,local
Date: 04 Mar 07 - 08:06 PM

I'm sure most artists would agree that gigging close together on time scale and geographically is not a good idea most of the time anyway, so it's generally not a problem. None of these norms are set in stone though - festivals, artists and agents freely discuss such things, so there's really no cause for concern. It's just the way things work and should not be seen as any negative reflection on the Shepley organisers, if indeed the above request was even made to artists at the festival.

(And Cath, while you may think it looks like you are taking part in a discussion, it actually just comes across as if you are stirring, and given your own interests expressed in other threads, it might be wiser for you to steer clear of this thread if you are not going to comment on Shepley Spring Festival itself.
If you can't let the proverbial water go under the bridge......)

Subject: RE: Shepley Spring Festival
From: GUEST,dave the jug
Date: 05 Mar 07 - 03:28 AM

I'm glad you feel that way Cath, cos the Ugly mug jug band are booked at a local folk club and now at the holmfirth festival of folk!
I think your last comment was relevant and in no way 'stirring'.
( but some will always think the worst)

Subject: RE: Shepley Spring Festival
From: Cath
Date: 05 Mar 07 - 04:12 AM

I'm sorry Local but I thought I was taking part in a general discussion on exclusion clauses which came up in your thread.
My comments were directed at all who said it was the normal thing to do. Maybe I should have been clearer - I was talking of the 'you' in general terms rather than the particular, after all using 'one' does sound a bit pompous.
I made my identity and interests quite clear although I confess I did use Holmfirth and Shepley as examples.

Subject: RE: Shepley Spring Festival
From: Folkiedave
Date: 05 Mar 07 - 04:35 AM

Looks great so far - good luck to them - it can't be easy to make radical changes to a festival which has been going for so long.

Well I have a bias in that I will be a stall holder. And if the organisers were calling it anything to do with Holmfirth then people might have a grievance.

But it looks to me as if the organisers are not doing anything to associate the festival with Holmfirth and if you didn't know from elsewhere that the organisers were people who were involved in the old Holmfirth Festival then there is nothing to connect the two.

For obvious reasons I wish anyone who organises a festival every success they wish themselves and everyone to live in peace and harmony, in order that they feel happy purchasing my previously cherished books and spending money with the other stall holders.

And enjoying the music, atmosphere and all the associated things along with it.

Subject: RE: Shepley Spring Festival
From: Folkiedave
Date: 05 Mar 07 - 08:08 AM

Cath, have you seen the exclusion clause?

Are are you writing about that which you actually when it comes down to the nitty grittys really have not seen and are just guessing about or have heard about?

About four years ago Martin Carthy, Norma Waterson and Peggy Seeger were booked to appear in Sheffield. Martin had appeared in Worksop two weeks earlier - a long standing booking. So Peggy appeared on her own.

It is not unusual, and any festival organiser knows about it. As "Guest local" says these things are often negotiable anyway. That is usually up to the artist - or possibly their agent as in the case above.

But with the danger of repetition - what does the clause say? Or have you just heard about it?

Subject: RE: Shepley Spring Festival
From: Cath
Date: 05 Mar 07 - 01:11 PM

Folkie Dave, I didn't start this story and I don't know who did but nobody has yet denied that this clause exists, in fact many people have said that it is quite normal.
My concern is as I have already outlined in terms of how it affects many artists who may be trying to tie in other gigs with their festival bookings. Also Shepley have some of the same guests on their list as we have at Holmfirth so what happens now?
If there is such a clause it isn't much use if no notice is taken of it - it might as well not be there in that case.

Subject: RE: Shepley Spring Festival
From: Folkiedave
Date: 05 Mar 07 - 02:43 PM

So, let me get this correct in my own mind so I understand what you are saying.

Someone starts a rumour - you don't know who - and because no-one denies it you are happy for people to keep repeating it as if it is true. And you are worried by it. That strikes me as strange behaviour.

My first post on this subject was to advise people to check this story before repeating it. You and they are free to ignore this advice Cath but you can hardly blame me if I point out it is just a rumour at the moment.

I have pointed out in this thread along with others including a professional singer, that even if it were true it would not be unusual. I have given chapter and verse of an example of this. If the rumour is true then all those artists were free to turn down such a contract if they felt it was not in their interests and their agents would have advised them to do so too.

I cannot see the problem.

Subject: RE: Shepley Spring Festival
From: Cath
Date: 05 Mar 07 - 06:35 PM

So let me tell you again.

I did not start this story.

I do not know who did.

The story runs for 4 days with several people putting in their comments, mainly suggesting that it could be true and none saying that it isn't.

I am not 'worried by it' but I am concerned about its possible effects if it is true. I am not 'happy for people to keep repeating it' - I have no control over what people write and apart from yourself and one other I do not know who has been writing.

After 4 days I put my comments in because it could have implications for us, if it is true, as some people 'may' have signed contracts with that agreement and we have them booked too - so whose booking stands?

I'm sorry Dave but you are the one who is keeping this going by constantly asking me to explain myself which I think I have done more than adequately and I think this should stop. I'm sure you aren't doing the Shepley organisers any favours by this.

No one from Shepley is going to say whether it happens or not and I am going to assume that those we have booked who are also booked at Shepley are going to have fun at two festivals just 4 miles apart, never mind 40. We most certainly aren't bothered about the proximity - we do not have a problem

Subject: RE: Shepley Spring Festival
From: Folkiedave
Date: 06 Mar 07 - 05:29 AM

Cath I am not asking you to explain yourself.

I am just asking why you want to keep banging on about a clause which you do not know exists apart from the fact that someone posted it on here as a "ridiculous" rumour.

It remains a rumour, it isn't ridiculous.

But as you say:

"I've been reading about the exclusion clause with interest.

Where it does bother me......

But how do you enforce it?

I didn't start this story and I don't know who did"

oh yes and

"we do not have a problem"

Subject: RE: Shepley Spring Festival
From: GUEST,PC...
Date: 06 Mar 07 - 07:40 AM

I read with interest..I would'nt blame the festival organisers slapping an embargo on artists [who would be getting advertised freely at the festivals/sponsors expense] to a time restriction on playing near to the location within a given time scale..I have often had my fingers burnt' so to speak, as the artist/s have played over the other side of the big hills thus reducing the audience who might by a ticket..When one learns the hard way its the only course of action to take, to restrict the artist/s performance location...I certainly would'nt put the Peat Bogs on at all for at least six months..and why should the festival organisers risk the potential audience an opportunity to see the same act say in Huddersfield thus reducing the potential ticket purchaser for the festival.If the artists want to perform at the event and does not like the terms and conditions they dont perform or dont get paid for breaking an agreemant.....We have had to do this with some acts and more often than not they come and play....no big deal..

Subject: RE: Shepley Spring Festival
From: Alio
Date: 06 Mar 07 - 02:33 PM

Anyway, back to Shepley!! I still want to know who's going to be at the Craft Fair (apart from you Dave!) - will Doldrums be there? I need a new skirt!!

Ali

Subject: RE: Shepley Spring Festival
From: Folkiedave
Date: 06 Mar 07 - 04:35 PM

I do hope so, Denny is a great friend of mine.

If anyone sees her around perhaps they could mention it?

Dave

Subject: RE: Shepley Spring Festival
From: GUEST,local
Date: 07 Mar 07 - 07:27 PM

So who does anyone want to see?
Sheelanagig sound pretty amazing:
www.sheelanagig.co.uk

Subject: RE: Shepley Spring Festival
From: Alio
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 02:54 PM

Roy Bailey, Tams and Coope, Shona Kipling and Damian O'Kane, Bill Whaley and dDve Fletcher - and definitely the Peatbog Faeries. I've never seen them live, but they sound amazing on the album.
Ali

Subject: RE: Shepley Spring Festival
From: GUEST,local
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 07:49 PM

Couldn't agree with you more Alio (although I'm not actually that fond of Roy Bailey (hides from Folk Police)even though he is the patron of the festival!)

Peatbogs are excellent live, seen them a few times, though not for a while.

Subject: RE: Shepley Spring Festival
From: Soldier boy
Date: 10 Mar 07 - 10:45 AM

The web site encourages the 'FRINGE' element to the festival in the local pubs etc but the adjacent campsite is only available to full weekend ticket holders.
This means that non ticket holders would have to use other campsites that are miles away. Why is this so?

The organisers have done a sterling job in organising such a brilliant line up of artists and events on a green field site and I really do wish them every success for this new festival.
I makes me feel quite proud that so much effort,creativity and sheer determinatin is being invested to put the folk scene very much on the map in my belived homeland.

My only gripe is that the all important 'Fringe' element of festivals are once again treated as second class citizens and are left out in the cold.
I do believe that if the Shepley community (business and social) are to get any benefit at all from having this festival on their doorstep then you really must encourage and include (not exclude)
fringe festival goers.
Whilst they may not contribute much to the coffers of the festival as a commercial enterprise they do contribute greatly to the adjoining host community in terms of revenue and in breathing life,colour, entertainment and atmosphere into the community over the weekend of the festival.

Once you achieve this, any festival will always find that they are welcome and fully supported by the local area to run subsequent festivals in the future and will quickly forget any temporary inconvenience of extra traffic, noise and rubbish etc.

So PLEASE don't make the mistake of so many other folk festivals by turning your back on the 'fringe'. They may not want to attend lots of concerts etc or may not be able to afford a full weekend ticket but they do have so much to offer and contribute to the overall well-being and future stability of the festival.

Subject: RE: Shepley Spring Festival
From: Folkiedave
Date: 12 Mar 07 - 04:23 AM

First of all my experience is that those who cannot afford a full weekend ticket seem to have plenty of money for beer. I am not sure what they contribute to the overall well-being of a festival. Certainly it isn't money so it isn't the financial well-being.

What I mean by the fringe is holding events that are likely to attract the local community - for example Shepley Spring Festival have a concert with the Shepley Brass Band and Bolsterstone Male Voice Choir. It is being held in the local church with the local community choir.

I also mean going into schools with artists booked for the festival - who teach the young pupils aspects of folk music and then give them chance to perform at the festival itself. It gives means the parents come too. Shepley does that too.

I note the Shepley has a number of top-class dance teams. These are being hosted by two local pubs who will also welcome singers and musicians. That is a fringe in my books.

Apart from sitting around with your mates in the pub and being colourful as you move from one pub to another what do you mean by the fringe?

Apart from cheap or free camping within walking distance of the pubs you are being colourful in that is.

Subject: RE: Shepley Spring Festival
From: Alio
Date: 12 Mar 07 - 02:10 PM

Whitby do something smiliar I believe? You can get on the main campsite if you hold a week festival ticket, but otherwise you have to camp some distance away.
I know what you're saying Soldier Boy, but it would be equally unfair if it were the other way round, wouldn't it? Perhaps it should be "first come, first served"? But then it could be mayhem with people milling around?
I don't know what the answer is, but I do know that if I'd paid the price of a weekend ticket (and often the money's hard to find) then maybe I would expect to get some kind of preferential treatment. On the other hand, the fringe events / atmosphere are vital to a festival.
Ali

Subject: RE: Shepley Spring Festival
From: Folkiedave
Date: 12 Mar 07 - 02:31 PM

So here we have the basis of Soldier Boy's complaint.

There isn't fringe at Shepley Festival.

There is.

Support from the locals will not be forthcoming without a bunch of people sat in pubs and being colourful as they move from one pub to the other.

Well support from locals was in place well before the festival even started.

There is no camping without a season ticket.

err.........that's it?

Subject: RE: Shepley Spring Festival
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Mar 07 - 04:14 PM

Subject: RE: Shepley Spring Festival
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 12 Mar 07 - 04:16 PM

Alio, Moor and Coast have put on a campsite at Whitby for, I think, the last two years with the specific aim of catering for those not able or prepared to buy a week ticket.

Subject: RE: Shepley Spring Festival
From: Soldier boy
Date: 12 Mar 07 - 06:40 PM

Thanks Alio and Guest,guest. I fully agree with you Alio, preferential treatment should go to weekend ticket holders ,of course. I don't dispute that for one minute.
All I was trying to say was that it would also be nice if consideration and accomodation for camping could also be provided for fringe goers who too often seem to be left out in the cold.

Of course if that is not practical because of limited camping space, I accept that and priority must go to ticket holders.
If however a field nearby could be commisioned for fringe goers with a few portaloos that would be wonderful and I am sure that they would be happy to pay £5-10 per night for the privilege.
All of which helps to bring additional revenue to the festival.

I guess in my own way I am trying to carry a banner for 'the fringe' because for some reason they seem to be treated as a kind of underclass nowadays and I don't understand why.
What we must never lose sight of I hope is that it is exactly 'the fringe' that spawned the great folk artists that now take top billing at our festivals. Where else did many start out to learn their craft and hone their skills?

Bye the way, my, and I am sure, most others interpretation of 'The Fringe' is the hoards of musicians and singers that attend most festivals and roam the pubs etc to find a welcoming haven in which to play/sing to their hearts content.
Folkiedave on the other hand seems to have a different perspective on what constitutes the fringe. In his view it is brass bands, male voice choirs and childrens workshops with a few morris sides thrown for good measure. All very nice but, sorry Folkiedave, this is not 'fringe' in my book.

Subject: RE: Shepley Spring Festival
From: nutty
Date: 12 Mar 07 - 07:24 PM

I feel that it is unfortunate that Shepley has been singled out for doing something that is common to many festivals.

I also feel that it is unfortunate that Soldier Boy and other complainers can't find a constructive way of supporting such festivals.

The Moor and Coast site for Whitby week is totally independent of the Festival Committee but is provided by folkies who actually live in the area. Perhaps Soldier Boy and his ilk should be considering this solution.

Subject: RE: Shepley Spring Festival
From: Folkiedave
Date: 12 Mar 07 - 07:27 PM

As I have tried to point out to you - conveniently ignored - the Shepley Fringe Festival has a fringe.

Remarkably, they have done their best to hide it by putting it under "Fringe" on their website. Go look.

This is a post of yours:

Too many festival organisers choose to ignore this at their peril and then wonder why their green field site festival struggles to be welcomed and accepted by the the local community the following year,when they only remember the inconvenience of lots of extra traffic,noise and litter

Well what the festival organisers of Shepley did was meet with the local community and ask them how they would feel about a folk festival before finalising their plans.

Then they have organised events with the community's involvement which include their children working with the artists for the festival to produce a showcase concert on the Saturday. They also include a community choir which has been rehearsing for a while.

That's what they have done to be accepted by the local community.

What a shame you feel it necessary to denigrate this involvement.

So let me try this again - there is a fringe at Shepley Spring Festival. It involves local pubs welcoming folk musicians. Sorry Soldier Boy but I thought that is what you wanted.

There is an involvement with the local community and the local community has been involved in its planning together with the festival. Forgive me for repetition but I thought that is what you were recommending.

There isn't cheap camping for those not buying season tickets.

I'd say you have got two out of three. Live with it.

Subject: RE: Shepley Spring Festival
From: Folkiedave
Date: 12 Mar 07 - 07:38 PM

Of course that should read "Shepley Spring Festival"

Subject: RE: Shepley Spring Festival
From: BB
Date: 13 Mar 07 - 02:36 PM

"What we must never lose sight of I hope is that it is exactly 'the fringe' that spawned the great folk artists that now take top billing at our festivals. Where else did many start out to learn their craft and hone their skills?"

In folk clubs mostly. I'm not convinced at all that 'the fringe' of any festival has produced the great folk artists.

Barbara

Subject: RE: Shepley Spring Festival
From: Mrs.Duck
Date: 13 Mar 07 - 02:45 PM

Folkiedave said 'But it looks to me as if the organisers are not doing anything to associate the festival with Holmfirth and if you didn't know from elsewhere that the organisers were people who were involved in the old Holmfirth Festival then there is nothing to connect the two.
Until today I might not have argued except that my daughter brought a flyer home from school which reads
"The organisers of the old Holmfirth Festival are bringing all their years of experience and expertise to present you with a new, bigger and better festival at a new home in the village of Shepley, 'The very heart of the Yorkshire Pennines'.
Not very ambiguous is it!

Subject: RE: Shepley Spring Festival
From: Folkiedave
Date: 13 Mar 07 - 03:45 PM

No it isn't and it was a flyer last summer done to introduce the people of the area to the new festival. It is out of date.

Quoting that is like quoting an early festival flyer that does not yet have a complete list of artists and saying "They haven't got many people booked".

The Shepley Spring Festival website makes no reference.

Subject: RE: Shepley Spring Festival
From: GUEST,Guest - Beatrice
Date: 14 Mar 07 - 10:19 AM

If I have been reading correctly, Soldier Boy isn't asking for cheap camping - he's asking for SOME camping, for which he has suggested a not unreasonable price, for those who are not buying weekend tickets.
He and his chums can go and play to their hearts' content in the two pubs but they have nowhere to lay their weary heads at the end of the day.
Not an unreasonable question is it? Does Folkie Dave has an answer for that as he seems to be the only spokesperson for the organisation?

Subject: RE: Shepley Spring Festival
From: nutty
Date: 14 Mar 07 - 11:11 AM

Sorry Beatrice but I have to disagree with you - I believe that Soldier Boy's request is unreasonable.

It's on a par with wanting to go on holiday but insisting that the hotel you want to stay in accommodates you at a much cheaper rate than everyone else because you won't be having breakfast.

Organisations do not cater for the individual, certainly not if they make their complaints public before approaching them.
(see this thread)

I am not biased for or against Shepley, as I also 'Fringe it' when the opportunity arises but I certainly would not dream of demanding that a festival should accommodate me.

Subject: RE: Shepley Spring Festival
From: Folkiedave
Date: 14 Mar 07 - 12:05 PM

I am not a spokesperson for the organisation I am a stallholder at the festival. I kept this well hidden by revealing it at the start of my comments earlier in the thread. I am also referred to on the website.

I also said I was delighted to see sessions and public participation.

As has been pointed out time and time again, there are various sorts of festivals and this one is one which does not allow camping on the official site unless you are a season ticket holder. Similar festivals abound all over the UK.

I do not see why he cannot arrange alternative accommodation.

I do not see why he can't do some stewarding, or join a dance team. He doesn't have to dance, he could even be a musician.

Soldier boy has started identical threads twice now. He has claimed things about Shepley Spring Festival which are clearly not true.

Ask yourself why he wants to do that.

Subject: RE: Shepley Spring Festival
From: Mrs.Duck
Date: 14 Mar 07 - 02:30 PM

Dave, the flyers were handed out yesterday!! If they are not accurate then they shouldn't be being distributed. However it would seem that the organisers intended everyone to know that they were associated with Holmfirth and ti imply the festival was moving to a new venue rather than being a completely new venture. I have no vested interest in either but lets not pretend!

Subject: RE: Shepley Spring Festival
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Mar 07 - 02:39 PM

We too receieved the same flyer in the post a couple of weeks ago.

Subject: RE: Shepley Spring Festival
From: Alio
Date: 14 Mar 07 - 05:26 PM

You're right, Guest, guest - and for me, Moor and Coast make a festival campsite! Our's wouldn't be the same without them!

And I'm with you on the fringe, Soldier Boy - they give a lot to our festival, particularly the atmosphere in the street. They also provide a lot of funding towards our campsite!! But then our's (Saddleworth) is a particularly large site so I guess we're fortunate - others aren't as lucky, so have to make alternative arrangements, which is where problems start.

I'm not clear what the problem is with the flier? Shepley is being run by the committee that used to present the original, excellent Holmfirth festival, isn't it, and have now moved to a new venue which sounds brilliant. I don't have a problem with that at all. And from the sound of it, it will be bigger and better (without comparing it to the new Holmfirth festival). I think it's a really good idea to let schools know - think I'll put it to our committee!!
Ali

Subject: RE: Shepley Spring Festival
From: Mrs.Duck
Date: 15 Mar 07 - 10:46 AM

I don't have a problem with it either, Ali! I only commented because it was suggested that they weren't making the connection. I hope both festivals do really well.
As for fringe events I do feel they add to the overall feel of a festival. When you have a family to cater for the cost of full weekend tickets plus camping (and lets remember that this is rarely if ever included in the weekend ticket price but charged separately) can be prohibitive. Allocating some camping only space would be useful at any festival and since everyone pays for camping noone is using facilities others have paid for..