Can a mainly 'Fringe' festival work?

Subject: RE: Can a mainly 'Fringe' festival work?
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Oct 06 - 07:16 PM

Can a fringe festival work? I think Upton this year answered this question with a resounding YES! It was the best Upton yet.

Some of us do not want to sit through concerts. We prefer to sing or play in sessions. Those who are dancers enjoy dancing...it was all there at the princely sum of £10 each including camping.

Personally I avoid the festivals with guests who are separated from their audience by a stage & often a microphone and spend my time at singers weekends where all are equal and the quality of singing is superb.

Subject: RE: Can a mainly 'Fringe' festival work?
From: Tim theTwangler
Date: 01 Oct 06 - 07:02 PM

Hi all went to a music fest at Staithes in Yorkshire this year.
Had great time met loadsa people and heard lots of great singing accompanied and otherwise.
the event was based in two pubs and a large hall.
We played and sang every day and there was no booked artiste.
We are going to the Gainsbro folk festival on weekend of 20th october.
Is a mixture of both playing and listening to the pro's
We hope to meet more new people and see some we have had the pleaure of meeting before.
I dont know how it stacks up by the £/$ but will let you know re the enjoyment and fun.
First noticable difference is the cost I suppose.
Also is first attempt at indoor camping so should be a lot of fun and that in my opinion is what it is all about.

Subject: RE: Can a mainly 'Fringe' festival work?
From: Andy Jackson
Date: 01 Oct 06 - 05:39 PM

Hmmmmm???

Subject: RE: Can a mainly 'Fringe' festival work?
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Oct 06 - 06:03 AM

yep, i reckon so, ok?

Subject: RE: Can a mainly 'Fringe' festival work?
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 08:13 PM

Subject: RE: Can a mainly 'Fringe' festival work?
From: Soldier boy
Date: 28 Sep 06 - 08:30 PM

Come on now Forsh et al can you please stop taking over this thread with blatant promotion of The Clennell Hall Fest 2007.

I have already said that this sounds like a really good event and I fully support all your efforts to make it work.

HOWEVER it is time you moved on and directed any further messages about this event to the thread you have started called " Clennell Hall Fest 2007 more info ".

This is where you should now direct all mudcatters who might be interested and stop manopolizing this thread.

Thank you and may all our efforts on the folk scene prosper and grow.

Subject: RE: Can a mainly 'Fringe' festival work?
From: Forsh
Date: 28 Sep 06 - 06:10 PM

Well Thanks Wee Geordie.. I look forward to seeing you there, and your mates! Sorry, No Dogs (Pets). We will have the usual outside toilets, but also full use of the Clennell Hall Facilities too. Water on site, Car Parking, Bins, Security Patrols. Hope that answers your questions!

Subject: RE: Can a mainly 'Fringe' festival work?
From: GUEST,Wee Geordie
Date: 28 Sep 06 - 01:34 PM

I live in Newcastle, and I didn't know Clennell Hall Existed! I have been to the Rothbury Festival, which is near by, but there is never any camping there, and the pubs can get a bit stuffy.
This festival looks great Forsh! I'll be in touch soon for tickets. (are Dogs alowed?) Also, what facilities will there be on the site for camping? (I know it's free, but what do we get for nowt?!)
Er, do mainly fringe festivals work? don't know, but I think that Clennell Hall Festival will!

Subject: RE: Can a mainly 'Fringe' festival work?
From: Forsh
Date: 27 Sep 06 - 06:35 PM

ll, and Hey Soldier Boy! You wrote:
"Also, Forsh, Wow! What a venue at and in the grounds of The Clennell Hall Hotel!
I am very impressed. Free camping or luxury accomodation (including weekend ticket) and the weekend ticket is only £20.
There is something for everyone here and caters for every budget.
You have something very special going here and I think it is a very good model for a compact concert and fringe festival"
Thanks for that, and I hope others will now have a look at the web site, and consider coming, too. We have added a couple of themed SARs to the program, and intend to add another act or two soon/before Christmas!
Come on Catters, if you aint checked out the Clennell Hall Alwinton Festival Site site, then do so HERE!
If you wana check out the rooms, see this site HOTEL ROOMS ETC
Come All Ye!

Subject: RE: Can a mainly 'Fringe' festival work?
From: Soldier boy
Date: 27 Sep 06 - 06:10 PM

refish

Subject: RE: Can a mainly 'Fringe' festival work?
From: Soldier boy
Date: 25 Sep 06 - 10:03 PM

Must admit McGrath of Harlow what you say does make a lot of sense.

Also, Forsh, Wow! What a venue at and in the grounds of The Clennell Hall Hotel!
I am very impressed. Free camping or luxury accomodation (including weekend ticket) and the weekend ticket is only £20.
There is something for everyone here and caters for every budget.
You have something very special going here and I think it is a very good model for a compact concert and fringe festival.

Can you also accomodate caravans/camper-vans and what sort of numbers do you need to break even?
Also, is this the first time you have organised this festival at this venue or has it been going for a few years. And if so why have'nt I heard about it?
It sounds so good I might come to it in May 2007 unless I am supposed to be elsewhere - e.g The Holmfirth Festival of Folk weekend! Oh dear so many choices!

Subject: RE: Can a mainly 'Fringe' festival work?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Sep 06 - 08:56 PM

If I can afford it I'd always sooner have a season ticket, even if I spend most of my time at fringe events. I like the feeling I can drop in anywhere and move around and be open to performers and events that are unfamiliar.

And I am conscious that a fringe benefits from being a fringe, accompanying a core of non fringe events. And vice versa. Paying your bit to keep the show on the road is only sensible.

Several people have used the analogy of taxes, and I think it's a fair one. When you pay taxes you pay for stuff you don't use, and it balances out. I think we ought to pay our taxes, generally. When it comes to festivals, if we don't get season tickets we ought to make our fair contribution in some other way.

Subject: RE: Can a mainly 'Fringe' festival work?
From: Forsh
Date: 25 Sep 06 - 06:40 PM

d a look at the HERE bobcat (guest) and it works fine for me: if not for you type this: http://www.clennellhallhotel.com/id19.html
or click HERE!

Subject: RE: Can a mainly 'Fringe' festival work?
From: Soldier boy
Date: 25 Sep 06 - 05:29 PM

Thankyou R the R

Subject: RE: Can a mainly 'Fringe' festival work?
From: GUEST,Rob the Roadie
Date: 25 Sep 06 - 04:12 PM

If you like FRinge go to MIddlewich Folk and Boat festivalwhich is in June. Some of the main acts also appear in the fringe.
Also go to Bideford Festival in August lots of gret stuff in the fringe and the concerts are low in cost but high in quality.

Subject: RE: Can a mainly 'Fringe' festival work?
From: Soldier boy
Date: 24 Sep 06 - 09:55 PM

refresh

Subject: RE: Can a mainly 'Fringe' festival work?
From: Carol
Date: 22 Sep 06 - 03:31 AM

Ingleton weekend is the 6th - 8th October, hoping to make it this year.

Subject: RE: Can a mainly 'Fringe' festival work?
From: Soldier boy
Date: 21 Sep 06 - 08:29 PM

Can we make some sense please?

Subject: RE: Can a mainly 'Fringe' festival work?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 21 Sep 06 - 06:08 PM

Not too far to go: THREE far to go!

Subject: RE: Can a mainly 'Fringe' festival work?
From: GUEST,Bobcat
Date: 21 Sep 06 - 04:11 PM

Sounds good to me. Northumberland i presume??I have had a look at the HERE bit

Subject: RE: Can a mainly 'Fringe' festival work?
From: Forsh
Date: 21 Sep 06 - 03:53 AM

Morning campers!
If you were snuggled up in bed cas it was that time where U were, you may have missed this, so, ... REFRESH!
Have a groovy day, Folks!

Subject: RE: Can a mainly 'Fringe' festival work?
From: Forsh
Date: 20 Sep 06 - 10:00 PM

Refresh! I didn't type all that for no reply, Folks!

Subject: RE: Can a mainly 'Fringe' festival work?
From: Forsh
Date: 20 Sep 06 - 09:51 PM

And before anyone jumps in, I am working on the Shortage of Story Tellers!

Subject: RE: Can a mainly 'Fringe' festival work?
From: Forsh
Date: 20 Sep 06 - 09:49 PM

OK, here goes.. Yes it is a bit of publicity that I seek here by responding, having taken the time to read all these previous postings, I would like to say that the festival I am organising is aimed at satisfying all types of folks, it is a green field site, but there is a marquee, there are rooms free for informal use by all who would sing and be merry, the main Bar has a time set aside for informal sessions & sing arounds also. There are at times choices to make as to which artist to see, there will be 2 Ceilidhs, with room to dance or sit, there will be Morris Dancers, along with Rapper & Clog, Children will Play & Sing, Students will also perform, there will be showcase bands and artists, camping will Be FREE, Ample facilities both inside & out will be provided, Veggies will be catered for, Shanty Sessions & Traditional Sessions, And Contemporary Singer/Songwriters too. If you, the festival goer wish to rub shoulders with the singers & performers, you may!, there is also luxury accomodation at the Hotel (A country House with 17th Century Peel Tower), Tickets will be free to those who take rooms for the duration, Discounts for pensioners, Half price for 10 - 16 year olds, FREE under 10s, Acts from Southern England, Teasside, the North East, Scotland & Australia, Have I satisfied everyone yet? Check it out HERE
If I HAVE missed something, let me know, I aim to please.. £20 for the weekend, by the way.

Subject: RE: Can a mainly 'Fringe' festival work?
From: Mr Happy
Date: 20 Sep 06 - 09:17 PM

Can a mainly 'Fringe' festival work? - Absolutely!

Subject: RE: Can a mainly 'Fringe' festival work?
From: Soldier boy
Date: 20 Sep 06 - 07:32 PM

When is Ingleton weekend Bobcat?

Subject: RE: Can a mainly 'Fringe' festival work?
From: GUEST,Bobcat
Date: 20 Sep 06 - 03:26 PM

See you at Ingleton...only the two concerts require tickets so i guess the rest is all fringe...some led and organised, with people invited to sing and lead, and other pubs events completely spontaneous, and a lovely informal weekend it is too.

Subject: RE: Can a mainly 'Fringe' festival work?
From: Soldier boy
Date: 19 Sep 06 - 03:23 PM

Thanks for explaining that Carol.

Subject: RE: Can a mainly 'Fringe' festival work?
From: Carol
Date: 18 Sep 06 - 07:11 AM

No he's not a boring git he's just got tired of sitting in so many sessions etc. with a bad back! Plus I havn't started to drive our campervan myself yet but really intend to get to Ingleton under my own steam - he'll probably decide he'd like to come to Ingleton as the's some local fishing I think.
WHF ithe White Horse Festival, used to be Stanford in the Vale many years ago, it was great to get there this year and meet up wiht old friends etc. but it is a b long way to go.
All right so I miss-spelt Mr Fidjit, but he's up there among the posts!

Subject: RE: Can a mainly 'Fringe' festival work?
From: Soldier boy
Date: 17 Sep 06 - 08:37 PM

I agree with you Carol. You are spot on but what is WHF and who is Mr Fidgit?
Also, if your husband is becoming such a boring git these days just leave him behind and enjoy yourself !

Subject: RE: Can a mainly 'Fringe' festival work?
From: Carol
Date: 17 Sep 06 - 02:03 PM

I really object to paying for full season ticket and some don't give discounts for OAPs etc and I'm not into stewarding. By the way we did have a singaroud in the Scount Hut on the Saturday evening at WHF met some nice people and swopped some songs, unfortunately it wasn't programmed Mr Fidgit.
To get back to the fringe question, there are quite a few 'free types', where you probably pay £10 to camp, I'hve organised a couple of small ones myself, call them Song Weekends or whatever, when we made profit on raffles that paid for some advertising and the rest went to the local hospice. My other problem is that my husband isn't enjoying folk music these days and before now we've had to buy 2 season tickets to get on the camping field!!!

Why can't festival oganisers offer a camping and session only ticket PLEASE???? Surely they would get some income from me or like some I can think of we just don't go to any more.

Subject: RE: Can a mainly 'Fringe' festival work?
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Sep 06 - 09:22 AM

refresh

Subject: RE: Can a mainly 'Fringe' festival work?
From: Soldier boy
Date: 14 Sep 06 - 04:15 PM

Thank you very much Mr Red. In't technology wonderful!

Subject: RE: Can a mainly 'Fringe' festival work?
From: Mr Red
Date: 14 Sep 06 - 01:07 PM

When you get up to speed - you will be doing clickies like this Bishop's Castle Folk W/E

Subject: RE: Can a mainly 'Fringe' festival work?
From: Soldier boy
Date: 14 Sep 06 - 11:11 AM

Sorry again Ms Lemon(Sal). I really am being dim today and have just realised you meant your postings on THIS thread re: Bishop's Castle Folk Weekend.
Doooooh!!

Subject: RE: Can a mainly 'Fringe' festival work?
From: Soldier boy
Date: 14 Sep 06 - 11:05 AM

Sorry Ms Lemon (Sal)I'm still a fairly new recruit to mudcat so don't know how to look at your postings. Please advise.
P.S Is this a bit like being invited to come and see your etchings!??

Subject: RE: Can a mainly 'Fringe' festival work?
From: the lemonade lady
Date: 14 Sep 06 - 10:20 AM

Go for it, I'm not organising BCFW next year so you could!

Have a look at my postings and read all about it.

Sal

Subject: RE: Can a mainly 'Fringe' festival work?
From: Soldier boy
Date: 14 Sep 06 - 10:18 AM

Thanks Cath and Ms Lemon. I did'nt know all that and at the end of the day it's just another ruddy tax, isn't it?

Subject: RE: Can a mainly 'Fringe' festival work?
From: the lemonade lady
Date: 14 Sep 06 - 10:00 AM

Bishop's Castle Folk Weekend was a 'Fringe with the main event'. We did it for 5 years. The first one packed the pubs but the 5th one (this year's in fact) altho covering it's costs only attracted Mudcatters and folkies but none of the local folkies or general public. There are loads of rules and regs i.e. Health and Safety for campsite and venues (yes even your own risk assessments for the pubs) but it isn't that difficult. First aid, insurance, Fire extinguishers, Fire lanes.... Arrrrrgh!!!

Don't think that just because the pubs have covered that side of things that the PRS won't chase you, cos they will. BIG TIME. They pester week in and week out after the event. Believe me, they'll suggest that you write down every song sung, tune played, author, length....

Good luck
Sal

Subject: RE: Can a mainly 'Fringe' festival work?
From: Cath
Date: 14 Sep 06 - 09:27 AM

Re PRS - I was told that the pubs pay a flat rate fee to PRS (not a huge amount) provided that there is no admission fee to the events. If a door charge is made then it is a whole new ball game and normal PRS rules apply.

Subject: RE: Can a mainly 'Fringe' festival work?
From: Susan of DT
Date: 14 Sep 06 - 06:32 AM

I guess one could look at US "weekend in the woods" events, like the DC Getaway and its cousins run by other folk clubs (read groups of folkies, not venues), as "fringe" events. One must buy a ticket, which includes a bunk and food for the weekend, but there are few or no "performers" and the music is made by the people attending, with various degrees of structure - none or train songs in location X at 11am type structure.

Subject: RE: Can a mainly 'Fringe' festival work?
From: nutty
Date: 14 Sep 06 - 05:39 AM

Not 'every' pub Soldier Boy.

Subject: RE: Can a mainly 'Fringe' festival work?
From: Soldier boy
Date: 13 Sep 06 - 08:47 PM

Every pub/club/civic hall etc arranges their own PRS and licensing details

Subject: RE: Can a mainly 'Fringe' festival work?
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 13 Sep 06 - 08:33 PM

How do PRS and licensing acts affect these proposals?

Subject: RE: Can a mainly 'Fringe' festival work?
From: Soldier boy
Date: 13 Sep 06 - 08:28 PM

Thank you so much O wise ones. I have been away and came back to all these messages !

I knew this thread would throw up many perspectives but I am encouraged by the contributions that put up very good examples where fringe festivals succeed with some concerts, workshops, ceilidhs but do not depend on the full season ticket holder brigade.

When I started this thread I was thinking more about the break- even/non-profit making festivals that involve the whole community and not green field sites that want/need to squeeze every penny out of you.
Are there more examples out there where mostly fringe festivals succeed and prosper ?

Subject: RE: Can a mainly 'Fringe' festival work?
From: Fidjit
Date: 13 Sep 06 - 03:46 PM

I came over for four festivals in August this year. Broadstairs is Ideal for fringe events. Spread all over the place.
Whitehorse I paid for an OAP ticket Glad I did. Met the aritist close up. Very nice small festival cheap as old chips but worth every penny. Not really any fringe there, just the late night sing-around.
Towersey. Well, Towersey was expensive but again worth it. You need ticket to get to the main concert area and the Ceilidhs. There is a small fringe at the pub and the barn, but really it all happens in the main area. and it was very good too.
Wallingford Bunkfest is a fine, very fine fringe event. Lots going on. Free workshops. There are concerts if you're that way inclined too. But mostly a fringe affair that really works. Need a ticket for the Ceilidhs though.

I enjoyed myself meeting old friends and making new ones.

Chas

Subject: RE: Can a mainly 'Fringe' festival work?
From: Les from Hull
Date: 13 Sep 06 - 08:35 AM

Chris:

I suppose a word or two about about the 'People's Voice' Festival in Beverley may help. In 2002 the organisers of Beverley and East Riding Folk Festival weren't able to get the funding they needed and so were having a year off. Partly to keep that weekend focussed on Beverley a number of us got together to organise a mainly fringe festival.

We were supported by the publicans of Beverley who coughed up enough money for the publicity, including a free programme. Pubs who booked live acts were given a short list of inexpensive 'folky' people to book. The Town Council paid for a ceildh band and provided a hall, and there was some funding for a shanty concert/session featuring John Conolly and others. We got a campsite organised and some dance teams offered their services (they could keep their collection money). There wer sesions and singarounds of various types throughout the weekend.

click here
and here

Les

Subject: RE: Can a mainly 'Fringe' festival work?
From: Mr Red
Date: 13 Sep 06 - 08:15 AM

Depends on the will to organise it. Or in the case of Steve Heap - tax it.

The answer is yes - but the fact remains - you need critical mass and look at fringies at (say) bromyard who have tickets. I do the ceilidhs, the fringe sessions and steward. I don't go to Alcester and Arden because they can't make ceilidh work in the venues they choose. I have many chances to dance other weekends & that w/e as it happens - locally.

Other people go to concerts and sessions. Some to be with friends and schmooze and sessions. Without the breadth and distractions how do you get the critical mass?

Even Upton - which is now classed as a DIY festival had two ceilidhs (one with Hekety) and if you look to the principle organiser he is a keen ceilidh dancer, morris fanatic, and caller. If he was a concert nut it would be two concerts and loads of sessions but maybe not me.

Isn't a Morris meet a bit like what is being asked?


There are obviously cultural difference around the world. The NZ festivals I went to the sessions were thin or maybe based around one tent with the owner holding court. Factions were definitely apparent.

Subject: RE: Can a mainly 'Fringe' festival work?
From: GUEST,padgett
Date: 13 Sep 06 - 07:31 AM

Many festival organisers in the UK would prefer 'bums on seats' and probably also Greenfield sites as they then have a captive audience and everyone pays

Unfortunately this often flies in the face of the folk club goer who either sings or plays as well as attends concerts

Its really a question of is folk music and festivals a business thing or not? with profit a motivation or even break even?


Festival fringe does depend on public house venues and the publicans are more than ready to take your money

Generally little trouble is found at such events

Folk Festivals in UK must be distinguished from large scale events which attract thousands rather than hundreds and must be a nightmare to control

Ray

Subject: RE: Can a mainly 'Fringe' festival work?
From: Janice in NJ
Date: 13 Sep 06 - 06:59 AM

Eric wrote: Certainly in England, the natural environment for folk music is a pub...

That is very different from here in North America where much of the folk music scene centers around coffee houses, churches, and schools, which are alcohol free environments. In the great majority of our pubs and bars, if a group of people started singing or started an instrumental session, the owner or manager would ask them to stop. Otherwise he or she would ask them leave. There are of course exceptions, but for the most part we do not have the pub based folk tradition where a UK style fringe can take root. Instead, our informal sessions tend to spring up in the nooks, crannies, and corridors of the festival itself; or in the campgrounds, if there are any; or in the lobbies and lounges of the hotels where festival goers stay. A few festivals even have the good sense to set aside rooms for sing-arounds and jams, sometimes facilitated but more often spontaneous.