Tried Brass Bridge Pins?

Subject: tried brass bridge pins?
From: leftydee
Date: 13 Sep 06 - 12:21 PM

I just put brass bridge pins in my '49 00-17 and am very impressed. They seem to add some sustain and brighten the top end. Have you tried them? What do you think?

Subject: RE: tried brass bridge pins?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 13 Sep 06 - 01:09 PM

We have had a range of threads about this. Opinions vary!

Subject: RE: tried brass bridge pins?
From: Steve-o
Date: 13 Sep 06 - 01:19 PM

I agree with you- I have them on my '46 D-28 now- I have had everything from ivory to wood in there, and these actually do brighten the tone.

Subject: RE: tried brass bridge pins?
From: GUEST,phlogiston0002
Date: 13 Sep 06 - 02:07 PM

Have them in my '53 Southern Jumbo. Enhanced an already stallar guitar in almost every respect. Trusted luthier says increase in vibrating mass shouldn't hurt the guitar.

Subject: RE: tried brass bridge pins?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 14 Sep 06 - 04:59 AM

Well, to re-cap what is elsewhere, I tried them first on a Mugen THE-78 (allegedly the individually luthier-built versions of the respected Daion THE-78 fromt he Yamaki factory) and it was TOO harsh and clangy.

I use them on the best of my Hagstrom J-45s - they give it a lovely shimmering bell-like quality.

I use EZ-Peg brass pegs on my second-best Hagstrom J-45 and while they do add shimmer the bass is now not round enough in comparison.

I tried them in my Martin OM-1 and it was not a happy combination.

Subject: RE: tried brass bridge pins?
From: GUEST,Bruce Baillie
Date: 14 Sep 06 - 05:08 AM

...I used to have some in the Yamaha I used to own and they were fine, dunno what the hell I did with them? maybe I sold them with the guitar? I should really get some more and try them on my Andrew Whale Parlour Guitar.

Subject: RE: tried brass bridge pins?
From: English Jon
Date: 14 Sep 06 - 01:12 PM

I have a tak EF407 - a Koa 00 copy basically,

Magic little guitar (if a bit quiet) but i felt the EADGB strings were great and the low E was like playing inside a sock, so I bunged a brass pin in and left the other (plastic) pins where they were. sorted the problem out a treat.

However - I'm looking to experiment with pins a bit. Can anyone tell me your experiences with rosewood/ebony/bone/follilized mamoth ivory/plutonium/camembert etc?

Actually, if anyone can explain simply what the physics of it all is, I'd be most grateful.

Cheers,
Jon

Subject: RE: tried brass bridge pins?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 15 Sep 06 - 06:04 AM

The physics seem to be a matter of heated debate without any agreement!

Subject: RE: tried brass bridge pins?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 15 Sep 06 - 09:16 AM

yes I tried them - didn't get on with them. I used the Ibanez ones I think there are better ones. In fact I've probably got two or three spare sets - if anybody wants them - I dont.

Subject: RE: tried brass bridge pins?
From: Midchuck
Date: 15 Sep 06 - 09:37 AM

Never tried brass.

Bone: makes many guitars too bright, but good if the original tone is darker and "woodier" than you like. Sounds as though brass would be the same.

Ebony: Makes many guitars too dark and woody, but good if the original tone is brighter than you like.

Boxwood: NICE!

Peter

Subject: RE: tried brass bridge pins?
From: Cool Beans
Date: 15 Sep 06 - 10:18 AM

I'm trying to get a handle on this. Do the terms "Bright" and "dark" (or "woody")equate to the sounds produced by "new" and "old" strings? "Pingy" vs. "thunky" or some such?

Subject: RE: tried brass bridge pins?
From: Larkin
Date: 15 Sep 06 - 11:30 AM

if you want to brighten the sound and also even up the any dead spots, then the groove tube fat finger is fantastic - for £20 it's tranformed my already pretty stunning Taylor.

martin

Subject: RE: tried brass bridge pins?
From: leftydee
Date: 15 Sep 06 - 11:44 AM

Bright to me is very clear, dark would be more muted. Similar to new vs old strings, I guess.

Subject: RE: tried brass bridge pins?
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 15 Sep 06 - 11:53 AM

All right-I'll bite. What is a groove tube fat finger?

Subject: RE: tried brass bridge pins?
From: GLoux
Date: 15 Sep 06 - 01:58 PM

Groove Tube Fatfinger

Subject: RE: tried brass bridge pins?
From: Kaleea
Date: 15 Sep 06 - 03:25 PM

hmmm. Now I'm wondering if I should try a set of brass pins on my old 1964 Gibson J-45, which has the adjustable bridge made of rosewood-the saddle is rosewood which, of course, really eats the sound. Since I've always preferred to accompany myself singing with fingerpicking, and mics were normally available to me for performances, I didn't mind the subdued sound so much. However, it would be nice if the sound would project a little better.

Subject: RE: tried brass bridge pins?
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 15 Sep 06 - 04:11 PM

Kaleea, wouldn't the simple and obvious solution to your problem be to replace the rosewood saddle with a bone saddle, before experimenting with the pins ?

Better still, get a luthier to replace the bridge with a proper bridge without all the metal adjustable gubbins, which eats the sound as well.

Adjustable bridge PLUS rosewood saddle, the mind boggles !!

Subject: RE: tried brass bridge pins?
From: cptsnapper
Date: 16 Sep 06 - 09:44 AM

I've got a Thornbory Knighton 120 & I use brass pins & either D'Addario 80/20 or 85/15 strings & the combination is fine for me: the guitar is quite heavy & it needed more edge for my taste. I knew someone who had a Gibson who kept the original pins but tried the 85/15s but ended up with much too" bright " a sound.

Subject: RE: tried brass bridge pins?
From: kendall
Date: 17 Sep 06 - 06:32 AM

What's the price of these pegs?

Subject: RE: tried brass bridge pins?
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 18 Sep 06 - 03:24 AM

John Pearse Kingpins - bell-brass and with a little 'Parisian Eye' decoration on the head. Look and sound the dog's bolleaux.

Kendall - they're about 40 USD from Elderly, for a set of seven (one spare!) and a matching endpin.
Rgds,
S:0)

Subject: RE: tried brass bridge pins?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 18 Sep 06 - 03:27 AM

A set of the plain JSD ones is I think about GBP10 (ish) in the UK. E-Z Pegs were I think about $30 shipped from USA to UK.

Subject: RE: tried brass bridge pins?
From: GUEST,12-String Sicko
Date: 18 Sep 06 - 05:45 PM

I've been using brass bridge pins on my Taylor 355 for about six years now. I do like a bright, brassy tone and they work just fine.
An old Tennessee troubador told me, "Yore gui-tar sounds like bells a'ringin'!"

Subject: RE: tried brass bridge pins?
From: leftydee
Date: 19 Sep 06 - 04:28 PM

I paid less than $7.00 for the set.. good investment, in my view.

Subject: RE: tried brass bridge pins?
From: Sean Belt
Date: 20 Sep 06 - 03:50 PM

I put brass pins on my Gibson J-45 many years ago and never went back. They really help the sound a lot, brightening it while not diminishing the bass at all. Now I have a bright, boomey instrument. I recently picked up a nice early 60's LG-0 and am looking to install either brass of bone pins at the next string change.

Subject: RE: tried brass bridge pins?
From: Bert
Date: 21 Sep 06 - 02:27 PM

Why didn't you buy a bright boomey instrument in the first place?

Subject: RE: tried brass bridge pins?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 21 Sep 06 - 06:12 PM

Instruments start life new. They may develop their voices with some age if played. Then, and not till then, do you know what they sound like. Smartarse.

Subject: RE: tried brass bridge pins?
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 22 Sep 06 - 06:48 AM

What Richard said.

Subject: RE: tried brass bridge pins?
From: Bert
Date: 22 Sep 06 - 03:37 PM

...Smartarse... LOL.

I know, I know, I was having a bit of fun at the expense of those who take their guitars too seriously.

But actually I DID buy a bright boomey instrument for myself because it suits my style of playing. It has a plywood (Laminated for the guitar snobs) top which will not change so much with age.

Subject: RE: tried brass bridge pins?
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 22 Sep 06 - 06:41 PM

A smiley placed after your comment would have let everyone know you were just funnin'. Otherwise it just looks like a smart-arse comment!
No harm done.
S:0)

Subject: RE: tried brass bridge pins?
From: GUEST,Ray
Date: 24 Sep 06 - 09:13 AM

A luhtier friend of mine recommends brass pins when the brightness of tone is lost after, say, shaving the bridge (reducing its mass) to delay the need for a neck re-set. The older amongst us will also remember the fashion for replacing bone nuts with brass. Basically, its all down to wight distribution. If you add mass to the head of a guitar, it changes the sound, increasing sustain. The simplest way of doing this is to add a G-clamp to the head. Similarly add weight to the bridge and you change the tone and sustain. Brass bridge pins are probably the simplest and most elegant solution.

Subject: RE: tried brass bridge pins?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 24 Sep 06 - 11:28 AM

THe vibrating mass is certainly the whole of the top, and may (maybe) include the headstock although to a much lesser degree. I would be pretty surprised if the change in mass of a little saddle strip would make much difference. And and increase in mass would reduce the resonant frequency (obviously) so rendering the tone less bright, not more so.

Subject: RE: tried brass bridge pins?
From: GUEST,Ray
Date: 24 Sep 06 - 11:59 AM

The late lamented "Frets Magazine" did an exhaustive analysis of the brass nut phenomenon at the time. I don't know of an analysis of bridge pins - its easy enough to try it yourself - although it does make some sense. Yes, the vibrating mass is the whole top but the heaviest part of this, which receives the initial momentum, is the bridge. If you add mass to this, it will, at least alter the characteristics of the sound. The received wisdom, which came from an experienced UK luthier, is that it makes it brighter.

Subject: RE: tried brass bridge pins?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 24 Sep 06 - 03:43 PM

I agree that brass bridge pins and/or a brass saddle make a guitar brighter. The changes in mass do not provide a convincing explanation for the phenomonon so what can it be?

Subject: RE: tried brass bridge pins?
From: Bert
Date: 25 Sep 06 - 03:31 AM

what can it be? ... Brass monkeys maybe?

Subject: RE: tried brass bridge pins?
From: GUEST,The black belt caterpillar wrestler
Date: 25 Sep 06 - 07:50 AM

Perhaps someone should check with Terry Pratchett that no-one has stolen the brass bridge and melted it down to make pins.

Is it just the way I read things?

Subject: RE: tried brass bridge pins?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 25 Sep 06 - 07:02 PM

Actually I swear by using crocodiles teeth as bridge pins. I fitted them last week and there really is no substitute - many people have remarked on the bright boomy, yet subtly captivating tone - that comes from using 6 matching 10th incisors. Of course you have to kill three crocodiles to get a full set, and even now there are natives in loin cloths diving in Ausralian rivers to try and sort me out a set for my 12 string.

My 1959 Rosetti Skiffle guitar has never sounded so good - not since I sent for it out of the small ads in the back of Titbits. People said I was crazy spending as much as £4.19sh 11d on a guitar when I couldn't even play it, but now I feel vindicated.

Subject: RE: tried brass bridge pins?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Sep 06 - 07:45 PM

Human teeth would work as well. Save them as you lose them, and then when you're ancient you can announce proudly "I've still got all my teeth" - and pull out your guitar to prove it.

Subject: RE: tried brass bridge pins?
From: Bert
Date: 26 Sep 06 - 01:34 AM

Of course, if its the weight that makes the difference then lead ones would be even better.

Subject: RE: tried brass bridge pins?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 26 Sep 06 - 01:21 PM

ah yes, but where would you find a crocodile with lead teeth?

Subject: RE: tried brass bridge pins?
From: GUEST,rugburn
Date: 29 Sep 06 - 12:31 PM

I have ebony pins in my Yamaha, and I honestly can't say whether they changed the sound noticably. I did it for appearance, and the fact that I hate the standard little plastic pins.
I have my Alvarez 12-string in the hospital right now, getting the Fishburn Matrix Natural preamp/pickup system installed, and Stephen is getting me a set (2 actually) of brass pins to replace the previously noted plastics. I can't wait to hear it, but I may change to ebony pins if it's too bright...the 12 string already shimmers as it is...

rugburn®

Subject: RE: Brass bridge pins
From: Jeri
Date: 06 Sep 08 - 07:26 AM

A minuscule amount maybe. Mostly, they're shiny.

Subject: RE: Brass bridge pins
From: alex s
Date: 06 Sep 08 - 07:41 AM

I've used stainless steel - bright (and shiny) but now I use ebony.

Subject: RE: Brass bridge pins
From: HarleySpirit
Date: 06 Sep 08 - 07:47 AM

Oh yah!
Made a big difference to my Washburn. Increased sustain considerably.
...and yes, they look great!

Subject: RE: Brass bridge pins
From: HarleySpirit
Date: 06 Sep 08 - 07:48 AM

Brass Pins that is!

Subject: RE: Brass bridge pins
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 06 Sep 08 - 08:29 AM

whats the new ones/

i had some Ibanez ones and they were shite. I notice that Alan Marshall fits brass pins to his new guitars and Alan knows a thing or two about guitars.

Subject: RE: Brass bridge pins
From: HarleySpirit
Date: 06 Sep 08 - 09:08 AM

Try these brass TONE PINS found at this site!

www.dandreapicks.com

They worked for me!

Subject: RE: Tried Brass Bridge Pins?
From: catspaw49
Date: 06 Sep 08 - 11:44 AM

Not sure why you refreshed this Jeri, but there is also a few good posts to THIS THREAD as well. I need to add it to the others at the top.

I gather from your response that you must have tried some. Bridge pins as has been oft noted make only a small difference in sound but there can be some difference nonetheless. The thing I've always noticed and others have said as well is that changes made to a good instrument will generally have some effect but changes made to a POS will rarely do so. Gets back to the silk purse/sow's ear thing I suppose..........

Spaw

Subject: RE: Tried Brass Bridge Pins?
From: kendall
Date: 21 Nov 08 - 10:30 PM

I went to buy a set of bone pins today, but they were $20.00. The brass pins were $10.00.
They make my Taylor louder, which it didn't really need.

Subject: RE: Tried Brass Bridge Pins?
From: Silas
Date: 22 Nov 08 - 03:41 AM

I put a set of Tusq pins in my Sigma D28 - incredible!

Subject: RE: Tried Brass Bridge Pins?
From: banjoman
Date: 22 Nov 08 - 07:19 AM

I fitted a set of brass pins in my Lakewood- a guitar which I bought as one of the first they made some years ago- it always had a brilliant tone but lacked something in terms of resonance. The brass pins were fitted really as a cosmetic exercise when the originals became discoloured for some reason. The result was amazing and its like having a new guitar - BP's may not be everyones cu of tea but as they are reasonably cheap well worth a try
Pete

Subject: RE: Tried Brass Bridge Pins?
From: bubblyrat
Date: 22 Nov 08 - 04:24 PM

I have them in my Avalon,and have done for about 6 years now.I wouldn't be without them.Having said that,they don't seem to work with my Martin MC 16.Perhaps it's the wood ??----the Martin is spruce,the Avalon cedar.Whatever the case,I prefer the sound of the Avalon ! I have them also in my Samick 12-string,and that works,too.But they need polishing regularly---every time I change strings(which is often) out comes the Brasso !