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German Gypsy music

GUEST,Dave 14 Sep 06 - 04:01 PM
toadfrog 14 Sep 06 - 04:20 PM
GUEST,Dave 14 Sep 06 - 04:57 PM
InOBU 14 Sep 06 - 05:04 PM
GUEST,Jack Campin 14 Sep 06 - 05:43 PM
toadfrog 14 Sep 06 - 07:32 PM
NH Dave 14 Sep 06 - 08:07 PM
GUEST,oldhippie 14 Sep 06 - 08:24 PM
open mike 14 Sep 06 - 11:20 PM
Paul Burke 15 Sep 06 - 03:42 AM
InOBU 15 Sep 06 - 09:56 AM
Wolfgang 15 Sep 06 - 10:08 AM
InOBU 15 Sep 06 - 02:10 PM
Kaleea 15 Sep 06 - 03:08 PM
GUEST,Dave (original poster) 15 Sep 06 - 03:35 PM
Joybell 16 Sep 06 - 01:12 AM
eddie1 16 Sep 06 - 07:43 AM
eddie1 16 Sep 06 - 07:44 AM
Ernest 17 Sep 06 - 05:29 AM
GUEST,Dave 17 Sep 06 - 05:45 PM
GUEST,.gargoyle 17 Sep 06 - 10:19 PM
GUEST,mg 17 Sep 06 - 10:29 PM
Splott Man 18 Sep 06 - 03:54 AM
Dave the Gnome 18 Sep 06 - 04:59 AM
Wilfried Schaum 18 Sep 06 - 07:23 AM
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Subject: German Gypsy music help
From: GUEST,Dave
Date: 14 Sep 06 - 04:01 PM

I have a friend who is looking for a CD of German Gypsy music. Web searches have proved fruitless - does anyone here know where she can pick up a CD like this? Thanks.


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Subject: RE: German Gypsy music
From: toadfrog
Date: 14 Sep 06 - 04:20 PM

If there is such a thing, it will be interesting to hear. I don't imagine there were very many German Gypsies--Austrian ones maybe. I thought I knew a fair amount about Germany, but I had not heard of specifically German Gypsy music; where did you learn about it?


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Subject: RE: German Gypsy music
From: GUEST,Dave
Date: 14 Sep 06 - 04:57 PM

Well, I don't know much about it, that's the problem ... apparently the phrase for gypsy melody in German is 'die Zigeunerweise' (as in 'Tzigane'?) which suggests the music exists, I suppose.


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Subject: RE: German Gypsy music
From: InOBU
Date: 14 Sep 06 - 05:04 PM

You might wish to contact the Central Council of German Sinti and Roma in Heidelberg, Germany. The chair is Romani Rose. I am sure that in exchange for asking about the rights issue of Romany people in Germany, someone there might direct you to Romani music sourses. Often the interest in music brings forward issues of need.
all the best
lor


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Subject: RE: German Gypsy music
From: GUEST,Jack Campin
Date: 14 Sep 06 - 05:43 PM

I would guess Titi Winterstein might be German?

http://www.geocities.com/~patrin/culture.htm

Not a bright idea to do their discography as a set of Amazon links, though...


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Subject: RE: German Gypsy music
From: toadfrog
Date: 14 Sep 06 - 07:32 PM

GUEST David:

"Zigeunerweise"--certainly Germans are well aware of Gypsy music! Beethoven knew about Gypsy violins, and I understand used the style. Germany is near Hungary and the Czech Republic, and not all that far from Romania, and borrowed a lot from them.

Gypsies frequently are musicians and preserve the music of the people around them, notably in Scotland and England, and in Spain--so far as I know--they even created a national style. But I hadn't heard anything like that about Germany, and from what little I do know it seems improbable. Maybe I'm wrong; I've got lots to learn, and if there is such music I would be interested in knowing about it.


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Subject: RE: German Gypsy music
From: NH Dave
Date: 14 Sep 06 - 08:07 PM

Gypsies and other minorities frequently did the one way trip to the camps, it was not just the Jews. From this, I'd expect to see a disproportionately lower ocurrance of Gypsies and their music in Germany as a whole. I would also doubt that East Germany regarded them with favor either.

Dave


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Subject: RE: German Gypsy music
From: GUEST,oldhippie
Date: 14 Sep 06 - 08:24 PM

There's a CD of gypsy music from Transylvania, (as close as I could come to Germany), titled "Vampire Music" by Gypsies Maladon, on Terrascape (2005). Billed as authentic Carpathian gypsy melodies.


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Subject: RE: German Gypsy music
From: open mike
Date: 14 Sep 06 - 11:20 PM

it seems there was a discussion on here earlier this year
about a collection of gypsy music that was in the process
of being recorded, archived and perhaps digitized..in UK?

anyone have a link to the source of this?

and does anyone know of the staus of this project?


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Subject: RE: German Gypsy music
From: Paul Burke
Date: 15 Sep 06 - 03:42 AM

Please capitalise Gypsy, you wouldn't write jew or scotsman of jOhn.


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Subject: RE: German Gypsy music
From: InOBU
Date: 15 Sep 06 - 09:56 AM

Using the name Roma, or Romany people is nice as well. American Roma, do self identify as "Gypsy", but these days, Romany people is more respectful.
Nyes Tuka,
devlessa
lor


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Subject: RE: German Gypsy music
From: Wolfgang
Date: 15 Sep 06 - 10:08 AM

'Zigeunerweisen' (Weise being a very old word for 'tune') is old fashioned, a better search word is 'Zigeunermusik', even more modern (thougn not good in a syearch) 'Romamusik'.

The first name that comes to mind is of course Schnuckenack Reinhardt (a href=http://musik.ciao.de/Musik_Deutscher_Zigeuner_Vol_Schnuckenack_Quintet_Reinhardt__1452420>click for a selection of his recordings) playing brilliantly (his title) "Music of German Gypsies".

I recently started an obit: Schuckenack. Despite the murderous 'inclinations' of my forefathers he and many of his family survived as "Hungarian musicians".

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: German Gypsy music
From: InOBU
Date: 15 Sep 06 - 02:10 PM

Dear Wolfgang:

Good of you to post the links. The survival or Romani people is still a matter which demands the world's attention, and the German people do not share the responsibility for the past alone. Today, in many countries in Eastern Europe, human rights organizations have discovered programmatic sterilization of Romani women. During the nazi era, one-third of Europe's Roma were murdered because of their ethnicity. If one was 1\16th Jewish, you were slated for death, if you were 1\32 Roma, you were killed.

There is a great variety of Romany music, most play the music of their host nations, or interpretations there of, while there is an internal Romany music, which one can find played by groups like Kali Jag, a Hungarian band. In the US, American Roma have, for the most part, lost this internal form in its original traditional intent, but, when I have played Eastern European bands like Kali Jag, most American Roma recognize it as tunes to Romany Evangelical Church tunes, very much the way many Welsh hymns are old traditional popular songs.

Here is an important song in the Romany tradition. It is seen as the Romany anthem.


Gelem, Gelem
Romani Anthem
Jarko Jovanovic

Gelem, gelem, lungone dromensa 
Maladilem bahktale Romensa 
A Romale katar tumen aven, 
E tsarensa bahktale dromensa?

A Romale, A Chavale

Vi man sas ek bari familiya, 
Murdadas la e kali legiya*
Aven mansa sa lumniake Roma, 
Kai putaile e romane droma
Ake vriama, usti Rom akana, 
Men khutasa misto kai kerasa

A Romale, A Chavale

                 
I went, I went on long roads 
I met happy Roma 
O Roma where do you come from, 
With tents on happy roads?

O Roma, O fellow Roma 

I once had a great family, 
The Black Legions (nazi ss ) murdered them
Come with me Roma from all the world 
For the Romani roads have opened
Now is the time, rise up Roma now, 
We will rise high if we act 

O Roma, O fellow Roma 


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Subject: RE: German Gypsy music
From: Kaleea
Date: 15 Sep 06 - 03:08 PM

There is a book called Winter Time, by Walter Winter, who is Sinto(Gypsy in German), in which he tells of Nazi persecution of his people. I believe he survived auschwitz.
I seem to recall hearing someone recently talking about young Musicians in Germany playing Gypsy-like Music. Evidently, there is old and new Gypsy Music in Germany these days. I'd like to hear it all myself!


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Subject: RE: German Gypsy music
From: GUEST,Dave (original poster)
Date: 15 Sep 06 - 03:35 PM

Thanks to all for the information on Gypsy/Roma music of Germany, I have passed some links on to my friend on Titi Winterstein & S. Reinhardt.

It would be nice to know about some of the newer Sinto-influenced tunes coming out of Germany.


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Subject: RE: German Gypsy music
From: Joybell
Date: 16 Sep 06 - 01:12 AM

A Gypsy friend of ours calls himself a Gypsy and expects us to use the term too. Another friend is a Romany Rye (a Gadjo accepted by the Gypsies) He always uses the term Gypsy. It's not at all clear that the term Gypsy is regarded as disrespectful.
True-love's German Great Grandmother was a Gypsy - he notes that the music played by Gypsies -- among themselves, is often different from the music played, for a fee, for Gajos. Public performances may be closely linked to the music of the country in which it's played.
True-love's Gypsy blood gives him no particular insights into German Gypsy music -but it's an interesting subject.
Cheers, Joy


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Subject: RE: German Gypsy music
From: eddie1
Date: 16 Sep 06 - 07:43 AM

There was a group, no longer together I believe, called Zupf Gigenhansel who played traditional German folk music, including gypsy music. Worth tracking down some of their albums perhaps!
Eddie


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Subject: RE: German Gypsy music
From: eddie1
Date: 16 Sep 06 - 07:44 AM

OOps - call that Zupf Geigenhansel!
Eddie


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Subject: RE: German Gypsy music
From: Ernest
Date: 17 Sep 06 - 05:29 AM

As far as I know their name was "Zupfgeigenhansel" - just one word.

Best
Ernest


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Subject: RE: German Gypsy music
From: GUEST,Dave
Date: 17 Sep 06 - 05:45 PM

Yes, it's one word, thanks for info.


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Subject: RE: German Gypsy music
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 17 Sep 06 - 10:19 PM

As noted above... Germans and "gypsies" have not been a happy, historical-homogenius mix.

The term is excluded from most older (1910-1970) dictionaries but may be found underGIPSY and referenced to the USA. Zigeruner, Zigerunnin

My favorite is the adjective Schwannspinner what a wonderful, visual!!!

Sincerly,
Gargoyle

pump that last term into Yahoo...interesting?


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Subject: RE: German Gypsy music
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 17 Sep 06 - 10:29 PM

You know the TV shows on the Romanian orphanages for handicapped children...sometimes their only "handicap" was being Roma...I have seen the Roma children in other countries nearby and they are quite beautiful. I wish I could have adopted a couple of them. mg


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Subject: RE: German Gypsy music
From: Splott Man
Date: 18 Sep 06 - 03:54 AM

I saw a German Gypsy band at Cambridge Festival back in the 70s called (something like) the Hans Sweiche Quintet, I've got their LP but as I've just moved house it's buried too deep to find. A google doesn't reveal anything, but you could try variations on the the surname.
If this thredad is still up in a few days I'll post the details.


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Subject: RE: German Gypsy music
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Sep 06 - 04:59 AM

My Dad remembers Gypsy bands touring Poland before 1939. he was way out east in Byalistok but had releatives in Gdansk (Danzig) and further west, bordering Germany. I would guess that by virtue of them being Gypsies they were neither Polish, German or any other nationality but would roam between countries, particulary where the borders are variable!

Cheers

DtG


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Subject: RE: German Gypsy music
From: Wilfried Schaum
Date: 18 Sep 06 - 07:23 AM

For music of German Sinti and Roma look here (Schnuckenack Reinhardt, Haens'che Weiss, Falkenberg)


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