Info/Opinions RE: Ovation,Takemine,Yamaha

Subject: Info/Opinions RE: Ovation,Takemine,Yamaha
From: catspaw49
Date: 05 Mar 99 - 12:36 AM

Before going to Taylor and other pricier brethren, let's talk about these 3 which are lesser priced and more commonly available...and for whatever reason, being seen a lot on stage. Y'all know the drill, see you later!

catspaw

Subject: RE: Info/Opinions RE: Ovation,Takemine,Yamaha
From: alison
Date: 05 Mar 99 - 12:47 AM

Hi,

I like my Takamine, can't play it but it looks pretty.... and one of these days when I get the time.............

Slainte

alison

Subject: RE: Info/Opinions RE: Ovation,Takemine,Yamaha
From: Roger in Baltimore
Date: 05 Mar 99 - 06:38 AM

I don't own any of these guitars, but I do have opinions from listening to many live performances.

Takamine does show up on stage quite a bit. Although these guitars may be lacking when played acoustically, most have included the Fishman blender pickup system and sound quite well when played directly into the sound system. There are few electronic overtones and they can sound pretty "acoustic" when plugged in if the player has spend some time "foolin' with the sliders". They show up on the road because they do have a decent sound and are reasonably priced. They are good working guitars.

Ovations show up less frequently, and I thank God for that. Ovation was one of the first makers to incorporate an electronic pick-up in many of their models. They allowed players to "plug-in" and some players love the freedom and consistency they get from a direct connection. They are not wedded to a mike on stage. However, I have never heard an Ovation that sounded like an acoustic guitar when plugged in. They have all sounded electric with some acoustic overtones. On many, the sound has been pretty "muddy." Can't ever recall an Ovation player using just a microphone.

Of course, the plastic bowl makes Ovations more resistant to destruction on the road. I think many choose one for that reason alone.

I have not seen many performers with Yamaha's, but the new Yamahas I have played in stores were quite decent. I have not tried any plugged in. I suspect Yamaha could be on the rise.

As they say here in Carroll County, opinions are like (_|_), everybody has one. Fortunately I have fewer (_|_)'s than I have opinions.

Roger in Baltimore

Subject: RE: Info/Opinions RE: Ovation,Takemine,Yamaha
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 05 Mar 99 - 12:11 PM

Wow, Martins, Guilds, Gibsons...and the list goes on. I hope I'm not the only one here who has owned at least one of every brand named. (and to be named) Now I don't want to get into an arguement with Roger, 'cause I've seen his picture, and he looks pretty tough, BUT... before they got into being THE electrified "road guitar" they made a lot of Martin knock-offs that sounded excellent. My current 12 string, now going into it's 9th year is the most pleasing I've ever owned, and although it doesn't have the pedigree of past ones (listed in tedious detail in another thread) it has a wonderful sound and projects like crazy. 'Course it doesn't have all that extra weight of the pick-ups that are now in almost all "Tacs". I've had the privilege in the last month to use Stan Rogers' 1970s' Laskin 12 string during the recording of my new album, and what a feeling of awe, respect and history! I feel like a very lucky guy. Oh, and it's a beautiful guitar as well.

Subject: RE: Info/Opinions RE: Ovation,Takemine,Yamaha
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 05 Mar 99 - 12:33 PM

I have an electric Takamine from about the mid-80s and have never seen another one. It is in an elongated star-shape and has pretty good tone (I've been told by those who know). Let me know when you get down to the Harmony acoustics and I'll pipe up again, Cats.

Subject: RE: Info/Opinions RE: Ovation,Takemine,Yamaha
From: Bert
Date: 05 Mar 99 - 12:44 PM

Well I've had a (cheap) Yamaha folk guitar since 1979. It sound a bit light but has taken a lot of hard knocks. The action is still perfect. The tone has improved over the years despite the belief that plywood tops don't mature.

I have a friend who owns an Ovation and it is one of the best sounding guitars that I have heard. She did admit, though, to trying every guitar in the shop before choosing it.

My other guitars are, a Vantage, again plywood, which has a very bright tone and suits a lot of my songs. I bought it for it's looks (Peter's Placebo) It is Bird's Eye Maple.
An Ibanez that I bought from Goodwill for $28, It was brand new with a case and a strap. Has a deeper sound than the Vantage so I use it for certain (deeper?) songs.
An Alvarez 12 String, which I bought because a guy at work was selling it cheaply. I don't play it much.
I have another friend who has a couple of Seagulls with solid cedar tops. They both sound great.

I think that when (Note: not if) I buy another guitar I will take a good musician with me and, starting with the cheapest in the shop, do a blindfold test on each one until we both agree on the best.

Bert.

Subject: RE: Info/Opinions RE: Ovation,Takemine,Yamaha
From: Don Meixner
Date: 05 Mar 99 - 03:24 PM

I have an Ovation. I plays quite well tho' it's round shape tends to colliide with mine and is very uncomfortable to play standing up. Sitting down it plays fine. The sound is a different story. It sounds dull as and accoustic and it sounds electric as an electric. I give it and every other Ovation I've played a C-.

Action wise I've played some great Taks and some dismal Taks . Accoustically they are just Ok, electrically they are as good as their electrics allow them to be. B-/B

I've owned an FG-180 since 1970. And I've played many others in that style from Yamaha including the very best classical I've ever played. I could get by quite well with only that guitar if it weren't for a table saw creating some special needs neck wise for me. When I could play it, it was great. Still sounds great, very balanced D sized sound. Also very affordable at the time I bought it. B+/A

Don Meixner

Subject: RE: Info/Opinions RE: Ovation,Takemine,Yamaha
From: catspaw49
Date: 05 Mar 99 - 03:57 PM

Well here we are on the "you're full of it thread." My first message to invite that comment is on Takemine. I have played a few new ones and they seemed to be quite decent guitars. I'm not big on amplification so the electronics are not important as I'd rather be sure with a Shure, so to speak. Bought at the best price, they're good value for the money. But I do own one Takemine currently, and it is, hands down, the sweetest sounding guitar...a truly lovely voice. And I bought it out of "desparation." I'd just been burgled and now had precisely zero guitars. A friend called and said that the music store next to where his wife worked was going out of business and were "giving stuff away." Not a guitar shop, just a little generic store, but I went over anyway. After looking, I tried the only thing that they had and it sounded really nice. After "negotiations" I brought home this Takemine...for $125.00...didn't even have a case! Fortunately my friendly neighborhood thieves had left me a gigbag and there she took up residence. Although it looked, played, and sounded like a D-18, my intent was always to trade as soon as I found something else. This was 1981.

The Japanese may not be great innovators, but they are the world's BEST copiers and perfecters. Back then Tacs were direct and perfect Martin copies. I mean like bring your inspection mirrors and you will see that the bracing isn't just like Martin's, it looks better. Right down to the last detail, these were dead ringers...including the "Takemine" script on the peghead that looks like it says CFMartin from 6 or 7 feet away. Probably because I couldn't take it seriously, this poor old girl got the worst treatment of any thing I've ever owned for many years. And even today, although I try to treat her as the lovely thing she is, I'm still superstitious enough not to buy a hardshell case, but I did get her a new gigbag (on sale from Elderly---has C.F.Martin embroidery work, how fitting).

This guitar has aged very well, never been string sensitive, and has never been repaired in any way. I did replace the machine heads and pickguard, and I made a new saddle and nut out of antler. I feel silly defending her as her playability and voice speak for themselves. The new Tacs are nice as I stated above, but cannot compare to my Martin forgery, and most Martins don't either...including my D-28. Other guitars have come and gone while my cheap fill-in is, and will be, still here.

catspaw

Subject: RE: Info/Opinions RE: Ovation,Takemine,Yamaha
From: Ian Kirk (inactive)
Date: 06 Mar 99 - 08:18 AM

I'd recommend anyone wanting a good electric\acoustic guitar to have a serious look at the Takemine. I have been really pleased with mine, great tone, good action, sounds good played acoustically and plugged in.

The shop I bought it from had a whole range of electric acoustic guitars and I spent happy hours trying them all. The Tak I eventually bought was one of three of the same model in the shop and they all sounded and felt a little different. I settled for the one I liked best. In other words it pays to check out as many as you can before you spend your hard earned cash - there are variations in the same model from the same manufacturer.

Ian

Subject: RE: Info/Opinions RE: Ovation,Takemine,Yamaha
From: MAG (inactive)
Date: 06 Mar 99 - 08:05 PM

I've also got an early knockoff-Martin Tac. our local guitar doctor, Craig Tarwater, says Martin sued them and they had to change it. Aside from very minor problems with bowing, it's great. It meets my (admittedly modest) needs.

Mary Ann

Subject: RE: Info/Opinions RE: Ovation,Takemine,Yamaha
From: Allan.S
Date: 06 Mar 99 - 09:21 PM

As I sit here I am reminded of my first Guitar STELLA [by starlite] Removed the paint and gave it a coat of varnish complete with U-Conn. decals stuck on. You mean one was suposed to change strings. ???? Just put down my Gentile guitar (GOYA) ethnic joke.. 1950 or so It still sings. Had not played the 1951 00-18 martin in 8 or 10 years and the sound was dead I started to play it again and the sound improves day by day. THere must be some truth in the statement that one must play it every day to keep the tone up It just loves Martin Silk and steel strings. Yahama FG not bad but nothing great or is that grate. Fender- good with a flat pick but with naked fingers-forget it. Just find something you like and sounds good to you and enjoy. isnt that whats its all about?? -- Allan

Subject: RE: Info/Opinions RE: Ovation,Takemine,Yamaha
From: catspaw49
Date: 06 Mar 99 - 09:57 PM

Of course it is Allen, you're quite right, and I know these threads may seem a little silly from that point of view. We all play what we like and what we can afford.

The idea for this series of "Brand" threads is to provide a little insight for people who are considering something new and would like to know what some of their fellow Mudcateers have experienced. Plus Max had also made a comment (not about guitars) regarding the younger people picking the brains of us old farts before we kick-off. Well why not a little brain picking on guitars too? This will also help to compile the info in one series of threads instead of scattered all over the place.

I mean like Brother Fielding alone has owned over a hundred guitars including "Pedro the Implosive." I think Roger and many others have excellent knowledge and experience and aren't afraid to speak up. Mick has spent a substantial portion of his time and income at Elderly, and I've owned just shy of fifty, some good, some bad. Sandy, Art and many others have opinions which I value highly, and hopefully we can all give a little insight for those who are going to invest in only one good guitar.

I hope you take no offense at what I've said because I thank you for giving me the place to say it again...I started the first thread with the explanation, but haven't used it since. ......And if you're not playin' that OO very often, I got these guys, 'Paw and Cletus, that would love to take you deer hunting.

catspaw

Subject: RE: Info/Opinions RE: Ovation,Takemine,Yamaha
From: Pete
Date: 07 Mar 99 - 07:44 AM

I have a 'G' Series Takemine and am delighted with it. Although I was wondering what type of strings do they have fitted at the factory? Or what type are recommended?

Pete

Subject: RE: Info/Opinions RE: Ovation,Takemine,Yamaha
From: Sam Hudson
Date: 07 Mar 99 - 07:56 AM

I've never been a fan of Ovations - I never felt comfortable playing one and the sound wasn't good enough to compensate for that - not by a long shot.

I've never owned a Yamaha, but played any number - all have been respectable instruments and some of the older FG models have been sweet indeed.

I have a lot of time for Takamine guitars; mine has a red cedar top that's getting better and better and was by no means bad to start with - warm and rounded and full. The on-board electrics are pretty good for the price, and flexible when you're gigging - it's a godsend to have the parametrics when you're trying to lose feedback. They're good 'working' guitars, all round, IMHO - and not so teeth-grindingly expensive that you're afraid to take them into a session!

Subject: RE: Info/Opinions RE: Ovation,Takemine,Yamaha
From: j0_77
Date: 07 Mar 99 - 08:58 AM

Playing all my life :) tried every kind including the famed Aria acoustics. My 10 cents - a Martin is gureat and loud. A Gibson is nasal and welll you either love em or dont't. I played a Tak and thought it adequate but great value, Yamaha is hahahaaa - right they oughta have tried to make a new sound - I mean why copy? I once played a Fylde (England) and I loved the crisp sound. Ovations are good road guitars :) Fender acoustics suit an accomplished player and believe me they can sound very very good. Also noticed they they tend to be easy on the left hand so xplians the popularity. Seaguls never payed much attention but they sound pretty good. Taylor - could be a great one like Mossman if there were more lying around for guys like me who like to pick and 'cut up' all the time. Picked one once which was just dead ( probably because it's owner did not play it) Last my *Star* newbie for the 90's Washburn - I know they have been around for a long time but they are underrated so sometimes passed over for lesser instruments. They are gurrreattt but you gotta work on 'dynamics' moving the pick around to get that sweet sound. Probably the most impressive Guitar I ever had (sadly bent neck ) was a 194something Harmony(cost me 25 bucks in 1991) made of mahogany. The warmest and sweetest lil thing ever - used it for backup on some recordings it was excellent. Lost this one during the big D a few years ago. I miss it lots. My present is a Gibby 1953 - man who sold it me said it was a honky tonk guitar. Rings like a bell :) yet can be tender and sweet. It is too small for ma big paws so I'd gladly trade it off for a Galagher or Martin ( Never owned either but played lots and love em) Playing em does help the sound - or keeping them near a hi fi (pref analogue)

Subject: RE: Info/Opinions RE: Ovation,Takemine,Yamaha
From: Allan S,
Date: 07 Mar 99 - 10:43 AM

THanks Catspaw I love mudcat so no offense Yes we must help the newcommers Sorry if I some times get a wild hair up my butt. [old army expression] Pick my brains anytime. One of my favorate quotes is "When an old man dies a library is lost" I am playing the 00 all the time now I bought it from a very dearfriend when in college who has now passed away. reminds me of all the good times of years gone by. when I play it. I am a sentimental old fart or is that Seventy Mental?? [Spike Jones song] Allan S.

Subject: RE: Info/Opinions RE: Ovation,Takemine,Yamaha
From: catspaw49
Date: 07 Mar 99 - 11:04 AM

Ah yes..."I love you, for seventy mental reasons"...Talk about someone who had FUN with music!!!

catspaw

Subject: RE: Info/Opinions RE: Ovation,Takemine,Yamaha
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 07 Mar 99 - 12:58 PM

Damn, I can't seem to cruise by these threads without butting in..'specially when someone mentions "playing the sound back into a guitar". It's true folks, it ain't a myth! A "dead as a doornail" solid top guitar will regain volume, tone, and Presence (whatever that means) by picking the hell out of it for a couple of weeks. I don't know why. (perhaps a catter with a degree in acoustic response or something like that can give us an answer) Now, as to one of the better myths...maybe. I've placed a lot of instruments right next to a speaker, turned up the volume, and gone fishin' for a few hours...and... it seems to work. Guitar (or mandolin) seems to sound better. Doctor, is it all in my head? Tell me the truth, Jack Nicholson...I can handle the truth!

Wow, Jo 77, you mentioned Mossman. Oh boy, what a memory that brings back. The finest (and loudest) tone I ever got from a guitar was my Mossman. (Golden Era I think) It felt like the guitar had a built in amplifier. But oh, that neck! It twisted and bent, it warped this way and that way. I never knew from day to day whether the action would be high or low. I suffered with it for a year and then sold it to a guy who played "Honey", "Little Green Apples", "Tie a Yellow Ribbon" and "Lady in Red". I hated to do that to the finest sounding axe I'd ever heard, but at least his new owner wouldn't be messing with his neck rod every week.

P.S. In two amazing bits of mis-casting, the producers of the awful Woody Guthrie movie "Bound for Glory" had 6'3" Keith Carradine playing 5'6" Woody, and had him sitting on top of a boxcar ( circa 1939) playing his highly ornamented Mossman Golden Era. The only thing missing was a Mark Leaf fibreglass flight case at his feet.

Subject: RE: Info/Opinions RE: Ovation,Takemine,Yamaha
From: j0_77
Date: 07 Mar 99 - 01:28 PM

Just a'nother thought - tuning with the now universal electronic tuners may not be all you need do with a box - I usually let it be tuned (Folks I play around always tune for me) I then have to adjust the box so it plays true G,C D, chords. It does really make a difference. Typically the bass E string is flat and the B sharp. I know that is a result of the setup and can be fixed but rarely find an instrument 'spot on' xcept when new. If adjusting pretuned (great idea if you sing like me in the modal way) check the E major chord. A flattened B does not show up but if E is now noticeably out you may need to compromise a little.

Subject: RE: Info/Opinions RE: Ovation,Takemine,Yamaha
From: Willie-O
Date: 07 Mar 99 - 02:21 PM

I've got a Tak solid-body electric, a GZ300, double-cutaway which is a really nice playing critter for stomping out those tunes, with a beautiful sunburst top--never seen another one. Quite affordable it was, about $350 Cdn, used.

I don't know about the Tak acoustics, much, but its interesting to hear that Martin sued them, as they did Yamaha in the early 70's. Makes me wonder--who else has Martin sued? Perhaps somebody could compile the "year, make and model" info for us cheapskate collectors.

One can't generalize about Yamahas. Some are good, some are bad, and some (many?) have good sound but neck problems.

Rule of thumb applies, I guess: if its a good-sounding, good-playing guitar and says Yamaha on it, someone will always give you $200 for it without a lot of fuss.

Bill

Subject: RE: Info/Opinions RE: Ovation,Takemine,Yamaha
From: catspaw49
Date: 07 Mar 99 - 03:05 PM

Stuff keeps poppin' up here that triggers somethin' else about somethin' else about somethin' else..............

Mossman---In my early 20's I was working part time in a music store and when I came in at 4:00 my first job was to "Move the Mossman" (and a couple of others). Everybody knows stringed instruments are affected by the environment, but DAMN!!! Sunny,cloudy,humidity,temperature,day,night.......the things weren't guitars, they were weather stations!!!

"And now for the latest on the current conditions and forecast, let's go live for the Mossman report...take it Pat"

Aging/Playing---A while back there was an article in Acoustic Guitar about a shaker kind of affair to help age the guitar. Anybody else see that? Just tune up, clamp up, and shake up. The natural harmonics do the rest. Actually, it made a good bit of sense, especially with long grained woods such as spruce. My luck? About the time the top peaks out, the neck falls off from vibration!

"Bound for Glory"---what an incredible POS of a movie. Like an idiot I always watch it like I'm expecting it to get better! And Rick please have a good look at one of the train shots...where you see a lot of prairie and sky (no, not "Boulder to Birmingham"). You get a nice jet contrail to the left...so you might not be too far off in looking for the Mark Leaf.

catspaw

Subject: RE: Info/Opinions RE: Ovation,Takemine,Yamaha
From: catspaw49
Date: 08 Mar 99 - 09:42 AM

I guess it's time to speak up on Ovation. Ovation had not been out long when I was working in the music store and they sure were fun to demonstrate. We all probably lost some sales by scaring the hell out of people by whacking the crap out of them on the countertops and walls ( the Ovations, not the people). But they were very playable and good sounding guitars. I wasn't plagued with the fever to have one right away, but soon bought one anyway, a basic "balladeer" model. I found myself using it more and more and at this point Ovation was still not into electronics. Then I got a 12 that had a fine, big sound and I couldn't have been happier. I noticed that Ovation was very consistent and though the 12 was not quite as good as my Guild, it wasn't as sensitive either. After burglary number 1, I purchased more Ovations along with others. Following burglary number 2, I didn't buy another Ovation for almost 15 years. Through the '90's I'd occasionally play one and found them less than thrilling. What this is saying is that sometime in the mid '80's the guitar changed.

The original idea at Kamen had been better acoustic sound, but they saw a market for electronics and after a slow and rudimentary start, attacked in a big way. I think that sometime during this period they canned the whole acoustic concept. Then there's the "Adamas style" top which is definitely not acoustically a happy camper. And what did they do to the neck??? At least for me, very uncomfortable. My wife is learning now and awhile back I...don't ask why...bought her an elite, used from Elderly, at a good price. She loves it...next case. But have you looked at the top bracing on the Adamas style? Very scary. Interestingly, all of our non-musical friends think it sounds great.

About that same time, I'd been looking hard for another 12 and after 6+ months I couldn't find anything that had dollar to sound ratio I could live with. Then an '81 custom Balladeer showed up (where else...Elderly) and once again out of desparation as I had done with my Tak, I bought it. And once again...what an instrument!!! Why anyone would get rid of this guitar I have no idea. All the best of what Ovation could do in one guitar.

So I've got truly mixed emotions about Ovation. I think their emphasis is on "rocker plays amplified acoustic" far more than "folkie or C/W needs amplified." After all, Kamen has Takemine to fill that void. My advice for the absolutely nothing it's worth would be to try to buy earlier (pre 84-83), stay away from the Adamas tops, and play a bunch of them if you're buying new.

catspaw

Subject: RE: Info/Opinions RE: Ovation,Takemine,Yamaha
From: Neil Lowe (inactive)
Date: 08 Mar 99 - 12:19 PM

I've got an Ovation bottom of the line I bought new back in '85. Paid something like $200 for it. It seems to get better with age, although I agree with Don that as I get older and more 'rounder' the round back disagrees with me more. But maybe that's my cue to push away from the supper table a little sooner.

Anyway, someone told me once that the bowl-shape is a "true parabola," whatever that means. He then proceeded to demonstrate his prowess on the steel guitar and I was so distracted I never got to ask him to elaborate.

I like the thin neck, and it's easier to note than some more expensive accoustics I've played.

All I know is after taking the time to tune up proper with a fresh set of strings, I can strum a full bodied E chord and put my ear to the sound hole and the overtones generated are heavenly.

Think I'll go do that now.....

Subject: RE: Info/Opinions RE: Ovation,Takemine,Yamaha
From: catspaw49
Date: 09 Mar 99 - 07:51 AM

Just thought I'd run this back with the question on the Ovation mandolin. It's very striking the more I think about it, that Kamen's original idea for better acoustic sound and all the work they did on it was one day just dropped in favor of the "Plug It In" concept.

catspaw

Subject: RE: Info/Opinions RE: Ovation,Takemine,Yamaha
From: catspaw49
Date: 15 Mar 99 - 07:15 PM

Subject: RE: Info/Opinions RE: Ovation,Takemine,Yamaha
From: catspaw49
Date: 06 Apr 99 - 07:00 AM

Subject: RE: Info/Opinions RE: Ovation,Takemine,Yamaha
From: harpgirl
Date: 06 Apr 99 - 09:00 AM

As I've said before I like my Tak. I bought it in Fayetteville Arkansas in 1980 for $180 and it is like a second skin... had a good case too since I ran over it with the car a few years back and it was okay!
It is also a good guitar to hand around when people beg to try your guitar after a gig...as Doug Gauss said the other day after the DoneyGals played the BDC, as a girl was beggin to try it, "sure, that's why they call it a take mine!" harpgirl

Subject: RE: Info/Opinions RE: Ovation,Takemine,Yamaha
From: chris nightbird childs
Date: 10 Jan 05 - 09:32 PM

I have an Applause dreadnought, made by Ovation, and it's the best guitar I've EVER owned!
Beautiful, and a nice full sound in treble and bass.

Subject: RE: Info/Opinions RE: Ovation,Takemine,Yamaha
From: Little Hawk
Date: 11 Jan 05 - 12:34 AM

I've quite honestly never played an Ovation I liked. And that says it for me. Sorry, Ovation.

Takamines? I've owned 2 or 3 of those. They have a nice pickup system, but often do not sound too good acoustically. Some, though, are fairly nice acoustically. I give them a general rating of, say, 7 out of 10 for a moderately priced guitar.

Yamahas? Absolutely the best all-round guitars in the moderately-priced league. I own a Yamaha that has outlasted just about anything else I ever played. It never fails to meet my expectations. I've played about 50 other Yamahas that were very, very good. Yamaha is the most reliable inexpensive guitar there is, bar none. I love 'em.

Guitars I have owned include: Martin (several, quite nice and/or really great), Takamine (2, I think, both nice), Yamaha (3, absolutely great), Jasmine (1, mediocre), Norman (didn't like it much), Guild (1, very nice), Washburn (2, very nice), Godin Acousticaster (nice), El Degas (cheap, campfire guitar), and a couple of handmade luthier guitars...of those, the present one, a Ron Belanger guitar is, I think, the finest-sounding guitar I have every owned. And it only cost me $1,300 Canadian! Ron is one hell of a fine luthier, and he lives in my hometown of Orillia, Ontario.

Other guitars I've played, and liked, but have not owned:

Larrivee, Collings, Santa Cruz, Bourgeois, and Taylor come to mind. They're all lovely.

I don't usually like Gibsons for some reason, but there is the odd one that I do like.

Subject: RE: Info/Opinions RE: Ovation,Takemine,Yamaha
From: GUEST,flamenco ted
Date: 11 Jan 05 - 09:14 AM

I agree with you about Yamaha. I have one of their CG171SF flamenco models, buy one, your ears will love you forever!

Subject: RE: Info/Opinions RE: Ovation,Takemine,Yamaha
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Jan 05 - 11:52 AM

Ovation - if you can't play it at least you can use it as a tupperware container.

Takemine - They have an excellent tone, but very narrow fingerboard.

Yamahas - Mine is 20 odd years old sounds like any of the "expensive"
types, has an ergonomically (did i say that) sized neck and can stand any amount of knocks.

Yea, go for a good (older) model Yammeraa.

N.

Subject: RE: Info/Opinions RE: Ovation,Takemine,Yamaha
From: Big Mick
Date: 11 Jan 05 - 12:35 PM

First time I played an Ovation, it belonged to a musician by the name of Tom Martell (anyone else ever heard of him?) in 1974. It had an amazing neck, and sounded pretty damn good. I considered buying one immediately, but didn't. Next time I played one was in the mid 90's. Didn't care for it at all, but the action was certainly nice.

I had heard a story, don't know if it is true or not, that Mandolin Bros. in Staten Island, NY, USA did a blindfold test with a number of great players. The way I heard it, the players were blindfolded and given a number of guitars. They rated them on playability and sound. Supposedly they chose a $500.00 Yamaha over the high end guitars that they played. Anyone know of this?

Mick

Subject: RE: Info/Opinions RE: Ovation,Takemine,Yamaha
From: Little Hawk
Date: 11 Jan 05 - 01:08 PM

Yes, Mick, Rick Fielding told me that he had witnessed just such a result in a blindfolded guitar test by a bunch of excellent musicians. They had a bunch of top end guitars and some cheaper ones. A Yamaha won out over the $3-5,000 guitars when the votes were tabulated.

Subject: RE: Info/Opinions RE: Ovation,Takemine,Yamaha
From: the fence
Date: 11 Jan 05 - 01:28 PM

I owned a Yamaha to learn on, for the first two years I used it every day for at least an hour. It still sounds as good now. I also now own an ovation, although it sounds different to the Yamaha,(I wouldnt have wanted it to sound the same) it suits certain songs, finger picked and strummed. I would say take a look a them all and find one that you like the sound of and 'feels right'.

Subject: RE: Info/Opinions RE: Ovation,Takemine,Yamaha
From: mandotim
Date: 11 Jan 05 - 04:11 PM

I've had a Takamine EN20 since the mid 1980s. The guitar was Takamine's response to the Martin lawsuit; the response was 'Ok, we'll build something better then...'. Let's not forget that Martin went through a bad patch around then, just like Gibson mandolins did in the 70s. The guitar is a plain looking Jumbo, Cedar top, mahogany back and sides, two piece saddle on the bridge, pretty beat up looking these days. Never let me down, powerful, ringing sound (I got asked to turn it down the other day, and realised I'd forgotten to plug it in!) Always stays in tune, never feeds back when plugged in. I'd describe it as a great working guitar, and I still haven't found an expensive box I'd swap for it (although there was that Rob Armstrong...)
Tim

Subject: RE: Info/Opinions RE: Ovation,Takemine,Yamaha
From: Once Famous
Date: 11 Jan 05 - 04:24 PM

Ovations:   Other guitars smell better when they are burning

Takamine: Wonderful for serving sushi

Yamaha: Not as nice a ride as Kawasaki I hear.

Subject: RE: Info/Opinions RE: Ovation,Takemine,Yamaha
From: Jim Colbert
Date: 11 Jan 05 - 04:28 PM

Uh, you guys notice this thread started almost 5 years ago? At this point, whatever the original poster picked, he's probably already upgraded!

Subject: RE: Info/Opinions RE: Ovation,Takemine,Yamaha
From: Cluin
Date: 11 Jan 05 - 04:30 PM

My mother owned a Yamaha dreadnought 12 string (circa early mid 70s) she'd bought 2nd hand from a guitar teacher. Needed a bit of work which it never got because it had some buzzing and a bent tuner, but it still played and sounded very nice indeed. I played it a lot in my teen years. Never owned a 12 string myself. I think she still has it. I traded guitar cases with her since her guitar fit in my old beat-up case and I was getting a new travel case anyway. Her old cheapie cardboard one went out in the trash.

I also have an Applause guitar (an economy line put out by Ovation) that I bought back around 81. Got a lot of years playing on that one; nice action and good, though quiet tone. It had an under-the-saddle transducer in it, but with no preamp. That gave it a very thin sound when plugged in. A few years ago, I set it up for high-string work and used it in the studio to provide some jangly rhythm back-up on a friend's song. Sat in the booth with the recording engineer and plugged straight into the board. Worked great. I recently restrung it normally for my young niece to practice with. The beat goes on.

Subject: RE: Info/Opinions RE: Ovation,Takemine,Yamaha
From: Little Hawk
Date: 11 Jan 05 - 06:28 PM

Martin, I think you're a guitar snob! OOOO...That's really disturbing. There is life after Martin and Gibson, you know.

Subject: RE: Info/Opinions RE: Ovation,Takemine,Yamaha
From: catspaw49
Date: 11 Jan 05 - 07:21 PM

JIM COLBERT..........As the original poster on this thread back in '99, I wasn't looking for a guitar, just a good thread! We ran at that time a group of threads about every brand where we all had a chance to give an opinion. There are about a dozen threads with similar titles. The beauty of this place is that it's easily searchable and the info will always be there. I thought the idea of having a series of threads like this would be a good reference even if some people never read the other posts. I wish they would because there are some great opinions on them.

It also happens that people come and go and it was a good idea to me to get the ideas down from those who might get bored with the 'Cat or have a turn in their everyday life which meant they were around less and we got less of their expertise. So here we had at lest one repository of info to go back to and to call back up anytime we wanted it. Anyone could add to it.....even six years later!!! What I didn't suspect or even dream at the time was that Rick would die before his time.

I'm speaking of Rick Fielding here who contributed greatly to ALL aspects of Mudcat. From great musical knowledge to his superb insrumental skills to his knowledge of the entire spectrum of "folk" music and even to his great forays into some of the most incredible bullshit...........Well, we were lucky to have had Rick around and his death was a sad point, the lowest of the low, for many of us. For me he was a dear and wonderful friend who made this place more fun simply with a few words.

So enjoy and add on to the threads that are here and pull them up for others to read as well. This is not a static place and we need to keep the older threads alive to get the most value out of what is here. There are words of wisdom from Murray and Mole and Winters Wagess and Bruce O. and Little John that are worth the reading.....but we'll see no more from them.   They left us some great stuff here. Enjoy!

Spaw

Subject: RE: Info/Opinions RE: Ovation,Takemine,Yamaha
From: Little Hawk
Date: 11 Jan 05 - 07:31 PM

So true, Spaw. Little John Cameron's version of Hamlet's Soliloquy, for example, was a gem that I will never forget.

Subject: RE: Info/Opinions RE: Ovation,Takemine,Yamaha
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Jan 05 - 07:34 PM

You've got it Catspaw,

N.

Subject: RE: Info/Opinions RE: Ovation,Takemine,Yamaha
From: Bernard
Date: 11 Jan 05 - 07:45 PM

I'm with Little Hawk - I've never found an Ovation (or Adamas) that I like - they are a bit too 'clinical' sounding for my liking.

My three Yamahas are nearly thirty five years old (FG160, FG200 and FG260 12-string), and in all that time I've never felt moved to buy a more expensive instrument.

I like to think I'm a bit better than the average chord-basher, and I've customised the action on them to make them a little easier to play. I prefer slightly heavy strings - even on the 12-string - and they still show no signs of buckling under the strain - the fan-strutting is really very good, without making the top so rigid as to make the tone 'thin'.

The secret of ending up with a good-sounding guitar is to give it a good thrashing! I know people with Martins who treat them ever so carefully, and the sound just doesn't improve the way it should!

Subject: RE: Info/Opinions RE: Ovation,Takemine,Yamaha
From: Little Hawk
Date: 11 Jan 05 - 07:54 PM

Ah, hah! Someone should tell that to Homeless Bob. He plays these gorgeous Beneteau guitars...but with ever so light a touch.

Subject: RE: Info/Opinions RE: Ovation,Takemine,Yamaha
From: Once Famous
Date: 12 Jan 05 - 02:43 PM

Each time sushi has been served on a Yamaha, I enjoy it greatly.

Subject: RE: Info/Opinions RE: Ovation,Takemine,Yamaha
From: GUEST,Art Thieme
Date: 12 Jan 05 - 10:39 PM

A friend told me he'd gotten a set of strings for his Ovation guitar.

I told him, "Good trade."

Art Thieme

Subject: RE: Info/Opinions RE: Ovation,Takemine,Yamaha
From: fiddler
Date: 13 Jan 05 - 03:28 AM

I went through this whole thing last year and came down on an Ovation - all teh models sound a bit fifferent.

The Takamine was a close contender.

I think as the thread above shows they are all good and at the end of the day it is not you get what you pays for it is you buys what sounds right to you.....

I did and I love it!

Andy (the guitarist today)

Subject: RE: Info/Opinions RE: Ovation,Takemine,Yamaha
From: GUEST,Coldeb
Date: 22 Oct 05 - 08:27 AM

An Ovation S771AX Special Balladeer Mid Depth Electro Acoustic Guitar will Just Nock your socks off for Tone and Build quality, it is just amazing! Expect to pay around £700.00 for one, and worth every single Penny!! You can actually FEEL the beautiful Bass Tones of this guitar vibrating through your body as you play it, the trebles are clear and clean and resonate for ages! And all this is BEFORE you plug it into an amp! Any of the Yamaha L series is a good buy, very well made and great Tone. The LL6 is around the £329.00 mark, an absolute steal for a guitar of that quality![e-mail]

Subject: RE: Info/Opinions RE: Ovation,Takemine,Yamaha
From: Fortunato
Date: 23 Mar 08 - 04:37 PM

I'm looking at a '76 Takamine on Ebay, a F340SF.

Does anyone know what the SF stands for?

best chance

Subject: RE: Info/Opinions RE: Ovation,Takemine,Yamaha
From: banjoman
Date: 24 Mar 08 - 08:15 AM

Although I am a banjo player, I also own, and play, several guitars. I bought an Ovation Folklore (short neck) in 1982, and have always found it a superb sounding guitar which produces its acoustic sound almost perfectly when plugged in. It compares very favourably with my Lakewood, which I have to admit, is my favourite , maimly because its more comfortable to hold.
It seem to me that its fashionable to knock Ovations, but I contend that they are fine instruments provided you avoid all the cheap copies.
Keep Pickin'
Pete

Subject: RE: Info/Opinions RE: Ovation,Takemine,Yamaha
From: Big Mick
Date: 24 Mar 08 - 08:42 AM

Pete,

I have just dropped a line to the Takamine folks. They are pretty good about these kinds of requests, so I should have an answer for you later.

All the best,

Mick

Subject: RE: Info/Opinions RE: Ovation,Takemine,Yamaha
From: Midchuck
Date: 24 Mar 08 - 08:56 AM

The "S" suffix, in Pacific Rim guitars, generally means a solid wood top, which makes it substantially more desirable (and proportionately more expensive). (As opposed to Martin coding, where the "S" suffix means a 12-fret to the body, slothead, neck, like a classical. Go figure.)

Donno what the "F" means.

Peter

Subject: RE: Info/Opinions RE: Ovation,Takemine,Yamaha
From: Big Mick
Date: 24 Mar 08 - 09:41 AM

Yeah, Peter, that was my first reaction, but then I noticed, in scouring the Takamine site, that they have a design motif called "Santa Fe", and in another discussion forum that the "S" is not always included in the Tak's. So I thought I would just ask the folks that know.

All the best,

Mick

Subject: RE: Info/Opinions RE: Ovation,Takemine,Yamaha
From: GUEST,TJ in San Diego
Date: 24 Mar 08 - 11:13 AM

I am working with my second Takamine classical, a replacement for an identical guitar that was stolen several years ago. These instruments, once set up well and with decent strings, sound quite acceptable for song accompaniment when played acoustically, though they obviously lack the depth and projection of higher end concert guitars. For the money, I am very happy with Takamine.

Some months ago, I came into possession of an Ovation 12-string acoustic-electric. I had hoped for much more than I got (it was a gift, so I can't really complain). This guitar sounds rather thin and almost "tinny" when played acoustically, though the neck is true and not hard to handle for me. Plus, I can't get comfortable with the rounded plastic back - it seems always to want to slide off in one direction or another. I think I'll save up for a Guild.

Subject: RE: Info/Opinions RE: Ovation,Takemine,Yamaha
From: Big Mick
Date: 24 Mar 08 - 11:17 AM

TJ, the Ovation has never been touted as a great standalone acoustic. But it has always been known for having a great action, and sounding spectacular when played as an amplified acoustic. I also don't care much for the rounded back.

Mick

Subject: RE: Info/Opinions RE: Ovation,Takemine,Yamaha
From: kendall
Date: 24 Mar 08 - 11:59 AM

My dear departed friend, Fred Pike had the only good sounding Ovation I ever heard.

Subject: RE: Info/Opinions RE: Ovation,Takemine,Yamaha
From: Big Mick
Date: 27 Mar 08 - 11:36 AM

OK, I heard back from the Takemine folks. The SF stands for Satin Finish.

All the best,

Mick