Recorders type/range?

Subject: RE: Recorders type/range?
From: Howard Jones
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 06:53 AM

Even a cheap recorder should be able to get at least 2 octaves. On my Aulos descant I can get high D. On my Moeck descant, which overall has a better sound, I can get this note but it sounds a bit shrill. On both instruments I suspect my failure to get even higher notes is down to my poor technique rather than the limitations of the instruments.

I have found the wooden Moeck to be fine in sessions. However I don't usually play it all the time, so it doesn't get too damp. If I'm going to be playing constantly, especially at a festival where the sessions may go on all weekend, then I'll share the load with the plasic Aulos.

I agree with Liz the Squeak that recorders are great in sessions, they do have a different quality of sound. It's not just that the tone is different from a whistle (especially with a wooden recorder) but the greater use of tonguing gives a more defined sound.

Subject: RE: Recorders type/range?
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 07:37 AM

I have absolutely no problems getting two octaves and a tone out of my plastic recorders, including my Dolmetsch Bass. Theoretically you can get two octaves and a fifth though some of the third octave notes require you to stop the bell end (like Uillean pipers do).

For sessions I take Mollenhauer Dream Descant and Tenor and Plastic Yamaha descants. I use the transparent Yamahas as they are in nice bright colours and are just as good as those of more conventional appearance. It usually attracts comment from someone. I don't usually use a plastic tenor as I find the finger stretch a little uncomfortable for playing at speed, whereas the Mollenhauer Dream Tenor has shorter finger stretch than most and is quite comfortable and has a good tone.

I sometimes take my Paetzold Contrabass to sessions. Though quiet, it has a lovely tone and makes a good bass instrument and I am assured it can be heard. It definitely makes a good talking point and I will invariably be asked what it is.

Subject: RE: Recorders type/range?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 07:43 AM

Good whistle players use tonguing technique where/when appropriate - usually unconciously, so they may often deny conciously doing it at all.

Subject: RE: Recorders type/range?
From: Tootler
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 02:14 PM

Equally it is possible to do flute/whistle style decoration on a recorder. You have to experiment a bit and problems come at different places. You can do a roll on low D because of the bottom C but a roll on high D is difficult. I have not worked out a satisfactory solution yet.

I tend to tongue a lot with the recorder and for the most part it works fine, though I am put in more cuts and strikes than I did, especially with slower tunes as it makes for variety.

I was at a workshop run by Cathal McConnell of Boys of the Lough a couple of years back and some asked about the issue of tonguing. He proceeded to play a tune on the whistle where he tongued most notes and said he knew someone who played like that. He said that was fine if that's your style. There are no hard and fast rules.

At Folkworks summer school this year a very good point was made that if you wish to tongue that's fine, but if are are able to use decoration, taps cuts and rolls etc. then you have the choices available and are in a much better position to develop an individual style.

What approach do others take to the use of decoration on the recorder? It would be interesting to know.

BTW, the anonymous Guest post two above this one was me. My cookie had vanished and I didn't notice.

Subject: RE: Recorders type/range?
From: GUEST,Jack Campin
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 03:46 PM

Cathal might have meant Mico Russell as the Irish whistle player who tongued a lot. Davit Kipiani the salamuri player tongues almost every note, I presume this is the usual Georgian style.

I like doing combinations of tonguing and fingering to heavier accents, places where you might do a birl or throw on the pipes. Sometimes a microburst of fluttertonguing works for really strong accentuation. For an accent on (descant) G I'll sometimes do roughly the same fingering pattern as a piper would for a D, i.e. {GAGD}G, slamming three right-hand fingers down briefly. It's not as audible as it would be on a reed instrument but it works.

The reason I make so much use of a G alto for Scottish tunes is that the fingering is much like that of the Highland pipes when playing pipe tunes in the standard keys - some kinds of pipe ornamentation come almost for free.

The alternate fingering T -23 ---- for (descant) B is useful for doing turns on C.

Subject: RE: Recorders type/range?
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 01 Oct 06 - 12:39 PM

"We have an unwaxed mediaeval style no brand "

I think thats the Hopf descant, we also have a Hopf garklein. They're both renaissance style with parallel bore rather than the baroque tapered. It makes them a bit louder but less dynamically responsive.

Subject: RE: Recorders type/range?
From: oggie
Date: 01 Oct 06 - 04:42 PM

I tongue more on a recorder but that might reflect a different repertoire to my whistle tunes. As a rule I seem to use more ornamentation on whistle where I play scots/irish but on a recorder I go for a cleaner melodic line and I tend to morris and playford era.

oggie

Subject: RE: Recorders type/range?
From: Tootler
Date: 01 Oct 06 - 06:36 PM

If you are playing renaissance style recorders then it is quite likely that you have less than a two octave range.

I have a set of Mollenhauer dreamflute recorders. They give you something of the best of both worlds. Wider bore (and larger finger holes) giving more volume, but they use standard "baroque" fingering and have a full two octave range.

Subject: RE: Recorders type/range?
From: manitas_at_work
Date: 02 Oct 06 - 08:34 AM

Yep, they have about an octave and a sixth.

Subject: RE: Recorders type/range?
From: GUEST,Jack Campin
Date: 02 Oct 06 - 08:57 AM

Renaissance recorders vary in range. My Mollenhauer Kynseker G alto goes well into the third octave, and Ganassi's "La Fontegara" (the first recorder tutor ever written) has fingerings up there - you can get reproductions pf Ganassi recorders, though they're very expensive. But I've tried a Kynseker bass that could only do an octave and a fifth (albeit at shattering volume).

Any recently made renaissance-type recorder from tenor up should be able to do two octaves.

Subject: RE: Recorders type/range?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 28 Jan 22 - 11:51 AM

Another variation: keys. I have just acquired a csakan, or at least that's what I think it is. F alto recorder in a modern-looking design with four keys like those on a simple system flute or clarinet. Should make some trills easier. Anybody here got something similar? I'm thinking of it as a fast but quiet klezmer instrument.

Subject: RE: Recorders type/range?
From: leeneia
Date: 28 Jan 22 - 05:44 PM

That's an interesting new instrument, at least for me. You should be able to set some world speed records with that.