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Tech: Longer thread titles please?

The Shambles 30 Sep 06 - 06:03 AM
Richard Bridge 30 Sep 06 - 06:19 AM
wysiwyg 30 Sep 06 - 07:18 AM
Mo the caller 30 Sep 06 - 07:19 AM
wysiwyg 30 Sep 06 - 07:31 AM
GUEST,Jon 30 Sep 06 - 07:36 AM
The Shambles 30 Sep 06 - 07:39 AM
The Shambles 30 Sep 06 - 07:50 AM
catspaw49 30 Sep 06 - 08:04 AM
The Shambles 30 Sep 06 - 08:14 AM
Richard Bridge 30 Sep 06 - 08:17 AM
The Fooles Troupe 30 Sep 06 - 08:17 AM
catspaw49 30 Sep 06 - 08:23 AM
The Shambles 30 Sep 06 - 08:27 AM
GUEST,Jon 30 Sep 06 - 08:32 AM
The Shambles 30 Sep 06 - 09:48 AM
GUEST,Jon 30 Sep 06 - 10:01 AM
The Shambles 30 Sep 06 - 10:30 AM
GUEST,Jon 30 Sep 06 - 10:35 AM
Wolfgang 30 Sep 06 - 10:47 AM
jacqui.c 30 Sep 06 - 11:25 AM
lesblank 30 Sep 06 - 11:43 AM
Joe Offer 30 Sep 06 - 11:45 AM
GUEST 30 Sep 06 - 11:46 AM
John MacKenzie 30 Sep 06 - 12:01 PM
Joe Offer 30 Sep 06 - 12:05 PM
Clinton Hammond 30 Sep 06 - 12:12 PM
The Shambles 30 Sep 06 - 12:25 PM
Clinton Hammond 30 Sep 06 - 12:40 PM
John MacKenzie 30 Sep 06 - 12:54 PM
katlaughing 30 Sep 06 - 03:15 PM
Hillheader 30 Sep 06 - 03:27 PM
Sorcha 30 Sep 06 - 03:32 PM
The Shambles 30 Sep 06 - 03:56 PM
Wolfgang 30 Sep 06 - 04:24 PM
The Shambles 30 Sep 06 - 04:33 PM
John MacKenzie 30 Sep 06 - 04:35 PM
The Shambles 30 Sep 06 - 04:48 PM
GUEST 30 Sep 06 - 04:54 PM
John MacKenzie 30 Sep 06 - 05:09 PM
GUEST,Jon 30 Sep 06 - 05:11 PM
GUEST 30 Sep 06 - 05:13 PM
Bill D 30 Sep 06 - 05:15 PM
katlaughing 30 Sep 06 - 11:43 PM
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Subject: Tech: Longer thread titles please?
From: The Shambles
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 06:03 AM

Can there be more space made available for posters to place longer and more informative thread titles.

When starting the following thread (and others) had it been possible for me to place the full name and dates in he title - I would have done. This would avoid the impression currently given that the original title was judged wanting - when additional information is anonymously imposed without the originator's knowledge or permission.

It would also save the time wasted by our 'moderators' and free them up to do things that perhaps could not be solved (as this can) by a simple technical tweek?

http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=95084&messages=3

As by the imposition of the longer titles such threads now show - it shows that it is technically possible - so perhaps more space can be made available to posters?


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Subject: RE: Tech: Longer thread titles please?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 06:19 AM

I too have felt that the current poster's limit for thread lengths can impose inconvenient limitations - and certainly require ingenuity to convey the desirable information in a short space.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Longer thread titles please?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 07:18 AM

... the current poster's limit for thread lengths can impose inconvenient limitations...

One reason for the limit is because there are still a fair number of users who are on WebTV, which displays differently.

... the current poster's limit for thread lengths can ....certainly require ingenuity to convey the desirable information in a short space...

It doesn't seem to have inhibited the development of Mudcat for folks to have needed to exercise a bit of creativity. :~)

~Susan


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Subject: RE: Tech: Longer thread titles please?
From: Mo the caller
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 07:19 AM

agree.
And you don't know what you've lost until its too late


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Subject: RE: Tech: Longer thread titles please?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 07:31 AM

Also, ever take a turn seeing the world as vision-impaired folks do? I've had to do that the last few weeks due to a vision problem that is, finally thank God, starting to resolve. I just could not see thread titles unless I used my browser's largest type-display setting. And because of our thread title-lengths, they all fit the screen. Just barely, in some cases, but they fit.

~Susan


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Subject: RE: Tech: Longer thread titles please?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 07:36 AM

WYSIWYG. Are you saying that WebTV is able to extend the number of characters it can display if a mod enters more text than is possible for a user, that the mods extra characters screws up WebTV display or what?


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Subject: RE: Tech: Longer thread titles please?
From: The Shambles
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 07:39 AM

If it is possible for our 'moderators' to somehow fit in longer titles - surely it is possible to enable ordinary posters to do the same?


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Subject: RE: Tech: Longer thread titles please?
From: The Shambles
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 07:50 AM

It doesn't seem to have inhibited the development of Mudcat for folks to have needed to exercise a bit of creativity. :~)

When a poster has used that creatitivity to create a title working within those limitations - this is not recognised when they are seen to be 'second-guessed' when further details are added to their chosen thread title by anonymous fellow posters who are not (for some reason) seen to be working within those same limitations.

When further details are added (without the originator's knowledge or permission) - it can look as if some form of a value judgement is being made on the originator's chosen title?

And in these cases - a needless one as the details imposed into the new title are freely available to anyone opening the threads concerned.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Longer thread titles please?
From: catspaw49
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 08:04 AM

Shambles, as you know this suggestion has been made and no one really objects. As you may have noticed had you removed your head from your ass where you look for a conspiracy in everything, NO UPDATES have happened and even many of the results of the crash are still here.

Max noted here the other day that it may still be awhile before anything happens short of day to day operations as some family situations have slowed progress towards repairs and updaes. It will happen but it may be awhile yet.

In the meantime, thanks for the suggestion and I doubt too many will disagree as we have all had to get creative, LikeEliminatingSpaces&CapitalizingEveryWord.

BUT ALSO>>>>>DO NOT TRY TO TURN THIS INTO A CONSPIRACY.   It isn't. Drop it now and quit acting like a friggin' jackass.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: Tech: Longer thread titles please?
From: The Shambles
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 08:14 AM

Freddie King's Birthday


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Subject: RE: Tech: Longer thread titles please?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 08:17 AM

Spaw. Take a deep breath. Your insulting phraseology is not necessary. Sham may have twisted the thread a bit to get back to a well-canvassed subject, but there is no need for you to get your knickers in such a twist and risk giving yourself a heart attack.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Longer thread titles please?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 08:17 AM

"God grant me the ability to change things that can be changed, the Humility to accept those that cannot be changed, and the Wisdom to know the difference"...


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Subject: RE: Tech: Longer thread titles please?
From: catspaw49
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 08:23 AM

I'm not in a twist Richard! I feel good. I'm just making a statement and jerking Sham for the hell of it in a way I enjoy. But it's a true post and if I phrased it flowery and politely, he'd react the same way, He's enjoying his trolling and on occasion I do too!

Spaw


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Subject: RE: Tech: Longer thread titles please?
From: The Shambles
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 08:27 AM

If the suggestion is to be looked on favourably - and until an update enables the change - perhaps all thread titles can be allowed to remain as the originator posted them?

And our hard-worked 'moderators' found some more constructive work to do?


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Subject: RE: Tech: Longer thread titles please?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 08:32 AM

Now you are being silly, shambles...


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Subject: RE: Tech: Longer thread titles please?
From: The Shambles
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 09:48 AM

Silly?

What in asking for all posts to remain as posted?

Or are you suggesting that our 'moderators' (whoever they may be) are not hard-worked?


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Subject: RE: Tech: Longer thread titles please?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 10:01 AM

In wanting to prevent the mods from assisting (as they currently do) by using the extra characters (which he agrees are useful) until he can use them too. He only wants that to happen to score a little point over them...


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Subject: RE: Tech: Longer thread titles please?
From: The Shambles
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 10:30 AM

Jon - until the change can be implemented that all I would ask is if our 'moderators' consider a thread title could benefit from a title change - that they take a little time and trouble to contact the thread's originator first.

Then an agreed new and longer thread title can be placed, no one will need to feel judged and everyone is happy.

Anything wrong with this approach?


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Subject: RE: Tech: Longer thread titles please?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 10:35 AM

until an update enables the change - perhaps all thread titles can be allowed to remain as the originator posted them?

until the change can be implemented that all I would ask is if our 'moderators' consider a thread title could benefit from a title change - that they take a little time and trouble to contact the thread's originator first.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Longer thread titles please?
From: Wolfgang
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 10:47 AM

Shambles, since you do have at your disposition such a long list of quotes and crossreferenced threads don't you agree it could have been considered helpful if you would have linkedin your opening post to the same discussion of about one year ago - so we could have had the chance to see what in the very long old discussion to this theme has been said by the many contributors - and don't you agree it would have been helpful if you would have been so nice to state your motivation for reopening that debate?

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: Tech: Longer thread titles please?
From: jacqui.c
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 11:25 AM

The title of a thread I started was amended - I don't know by whom - but it made sense and I was glad they did it. I wasn't asked/informed but that didn't bother me.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Longer thread titles please?
From: lesblank
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 11:43 AM

The problem is Shambles has a perpetual ass itch. He can't scratch hard enough to relieve it so he solicits the all of Mudcat to post and scratch it for him. I say, once again, "Stick It Shambles". Take your trolling stick to some other forum !!


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Subject: RE: Tech: Longer thread titles please?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 11:45 AM

If you have a large monitor, it's hard to understand that there are limitations on space for some Mudcatters. If you reduce the width of a Mudcat window dramatically, you can see that compressing Mudcat beyond a certain width, can make a screen that very hard to decipher. There's a lot of white space on my 30-inch monitor, but very few Mudcatters have monitors that large. It's very difficult for me to read Mudcat as it is on my dad's WEBTV when I'm visiting him. Longer thread titles would make it impossible.
Unless something is removed from each line of the menu display.

Is there anything that doesn't need to be on the display? I never use the "trace" function, so I wouldn't mind dispensing with that, but would other people miss that feature?

There are some links on the page for editing purposes. They don't show up on normal user pages, but they are necessary. The moderators have about five extra spaces to play with on most thread titles - this often allows us to add clarifications without removing much of the original thread title. This is expecially helpful on some of the thread title standardization we do, like adding death dates to obituaries and alternate spellings and songwriter names to song titles and dates to festivals. Some may object to this giving of extra space to moderators, but it has proved to be very helpful. It allows us to preserve the original thread title intact, and just add to it (we sometimes steal a little more space by shortening the introductory title tag). It also allows us space to add something to make a thread title distinguishable form all the other thread that have the exact same title - even if all we do is number the similar threads.

I think it's a good idea to allow the moderators space for title clarification and standardization. It helps everyone find things a little more easily.

And if we make substantial changes to a thread title, we do notify the thread originator, to make sure that person can find the thread. If it's just adding clarification to the title, we don't bother contacting the thread originator.

Max is aware that some people would like longer thread titles. If he thinks it's worthwhile, maybe he'll lengthen the thread title field. Or maybe he won't see it as worthwhile. Maybe it's a good idea that there are some limits on the wordiness of some of us, hey?

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: Tech: Longer thread titles please?
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 11:46 AM

Shambles is the true puppeteer in this show. He has ALL of you dangling at his strings. Hilarious. Nice work Shambles.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Longer thread titles please?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 12:01 PM

Thanks for that insightful post G/B
G.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Longer thread titles please?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 12:05 PM

Yes, our all-knowing unnamed Guests seem to like to make it a crime to answer a question. I'll agree it's fruitless to argue with Shambles, but he does serve to present opportunities for us to explain why things are what they are.
-Joe-


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Subject: RE: Tech: Longer thread titles please?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 12:12 PM

"Longer thread titles please?"

A damn fine idea... one of many many basic message board features we'd have if we didn't use this outdated and crappy software....


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Subject: RE: Tech: Longer thread titles please?
From: The Shambles
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 12:25 PM

Some may object to this giving of extra space to moderators, but it has proved to be very helpful. It allows us to preserve the original thread title intact, and just add to it (we sometimes steal a little more space by shortening the introductory title tag). It also allows us space to add something to make a thread title distinguishable form all the other thread that have the exact same title - even if all we do is number the similar threads.

This is a rather strange way of looking at it (or of avoiding the point). I am not sure that anyone is objecting giving extra space to our 'moderators' even the anonymous ones - although some may still question why these need to be anonymous.

What is being suggested is that all posters be given the same ammount of space to compose longer and more accurate thread titles. Then our 'moderators' would not feel they have to waste their precious time on imposing this and could address the other things that they claim they do not have time to do.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Longer thread titles please?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 12:40 PM

" This is a rather strange way of looking at it (or of avoiding the point)"

Both I'd say


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Subject: RE: Tech: Longer thread titles please?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 12:54 PM

Can Hieronymus Merkin Ever Forget Mercy Humppe and Find True Happiness?

Like that you mean?

G.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Longer thread titles please?
From: katlaughing
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 03:15 PM

Well said, Wolfgang.

Rememeber the days when newbies would post "need song lyrics" with nothing about the song in the title? Wasn't it great that we had mudelves and mods to elucidate? It's be a right mess if we hadn't been able to do so. Think of all the generic thread titles we'd have to wade through to find just THAT song!


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Subject: RE: Tech: Longer thread titles please?
From: Hillheader
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 03:27 PM

Some people here are suffering from cranial anal interface.

It's being considered. Live with it meantime. And Get a life.

We have the facility and priviledge of accessing a fantastic resource as a guest of the owner. And we complain continually - that somethings are not quite perfect. If you do not like the club - leave the club.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Longer thread titles please?
From: Sorcha
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 03:32 PM

If it's not one thing it's half a dozen others.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Longer thread titles please?
From: The Shambles
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 03:56 PM

In wanting to prevent the mods from assisting (as they currently do) by using the extra characters (which he agrees are useful) until he can use them too.

Jon - perhaps your view could be thought to be a bit 'arse-backwards'?

The only reason our 'moderators' do currently feel they need to impose their own thread titles on the ones chosen by the thread's originators - is because posters do have a more limited number of characters available to them.

If or when posters do have the same number of characters available - they will not need any assistance - but I suspect the attempt will still be made to judge and have this judement imposed, whether the titles chosen by the originator really need it or not.

The reason I ask that the originator's views and permission always be asked now, and before any changes are anonymously imposed - is to try and get the 'horse back in front of the 'cart' on our forum. Assistance is perfectly fine but let us not pretend that any poster is being 'assisted' by having any change imposed without their knowledge or permission to their chosen thread title.

And no matter how many characters posters may or may not have available in the future - perhaps it can be accepted that there will always be a limit to the amount of information that can be fitted in to a title?

And as there can be many judgements made about what information should be in a title - perhaps it can finally be accepted that the only judgement that really and finally matters in this regard - is not that of the current Chief of the Mudcat Editing Team, their known or anonymous helpers - but that of the thread's originator? And they should always be consulted if any change to their thread title is judged to be required.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Longer thread titles please?
From: Wolfgang
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 04:24 PM

Shambles,

don't you respond to polite questions anymore?

What was your reason not to include a link to the old thread of last year? Memory failure? Or was the reason that we should not see that you merely repeat the same question for the umpteenth time? I could give you even more links to other threads in which you have asked the same question and ignored all the responses.

old thread: click

You even could have used the option to refresh your old thread BTW.

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: Tech: Longer thread titles please?
From: The Shambles
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 04:33 PM

I probably assumed it had been closed.

But had I refreshed it - I suspect this too would have been thought worthy of some judgement.

And if someone else now refreshes it - our 'moderators' will be having heart-failure at the prospect of two threads on the same subject for as we know - the world - as we know it will come to an end.

Anyway - a great fuss will no doubt be made this one will be closed or combined with the earlier one.

And while all this fuss is going one - posters will still not have enough characters to make informative thread titles.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Longer thread titles please?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 04:35 PM

There is no fuss, apart from that which you are making.
G


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Subject: RE: Tech: Longer thread titles please?
From: The Shambles
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 04:48 PM

There is no fuss, apart from that which you are making.

Just you wait.


Interesting that in the earlier thread - longer thread titles were thought not to be good idea as some posters would have difficulty reading them.

As our 'moderators' are able to and are now imposing longer thread titles - this does not seem to be concern.

And imposing these longer thread titles is now referred to as assistance.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Longer thread titles please?
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 04:54 PM

Just let us make longer titles.

no problem, then -- other than the never ending ones that the old guard raises in response to people dey don' like...


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Subject: RE: Tech: Longer thread titles please?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 05:09 PM

Yes Bruce


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Subject: RE: Tech: Longer thread titles please?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 05:11 PM

Jon - perhaps your view could be thought to be a bit 'arse-backwards'?

To take away what the mods currently do would be arse backwards shambles.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Longer thread titles please?
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 05:13 PM

Not for you of course though shambles, your sole purpose in life is to complain about the mods, attempt to make life difficult for them, etc.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Longer thread titles please?
From: Bill D
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 05:15 PM

"The only reason our 'moderators' do currently feel they need to impose their own thread titles on the ones chosen by the thread's originators - is because posters do have a more limited number of characters available to them."

utter balderdash! That directly contradicts what has been said about the reasons titles are 'sometimes' edited for clarity.

"...- perhaps it can finally be accepted that the only judgement that really and finally matters in this regard - is .... that of the thread's originator? And they should always be consulted if any change to their thread title is judged to be required."

nope. That also directly contradicts the stated need to 'occasionally' edit a title for clarity.

Perhaps it can finally be accepted that incessant nitpicking and complaining about management decisions is counterproductive?


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Subject: RE: Tech: Longer thread titles please?
From: katlaughing
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 11:43 PM

key-riced on a crutch!


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