Club - The Cellar Upstairs, London?

Subject: Club - The Cellar Upstairs, London?
From: jessmurray
Date: 01 Oct 06 - 03:05 PM

Young Londoner, new to the folk club scene - I found a flyer for this club in a local music shop: is it any good? What about the average age range?

Thanks for any help you can lend.

Subject: RE: Club - The Cellar Upstairs, London?
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 01 Oct 06 - 03:21 PM

Cellar Upstairs

Nice pub with Shepherd Neame on draught and a cat. Well-run club with good resident musicians and guests. All ages (but have to say the performers are generally younger than the audience).

Subject: RE: Club - The Cellar Upstairs, London?
From: Anne Lister
Date: 01 Oct 06 - 04:26 PM

I used to be resident until I moved home to Wales. Generally excellent range of guests and extremely good level of resident performers (thinking of all the others, you understand, here!). My only worry was (and this might have changed, as I haven't been a resident now for a few years) that there were relatively few regular attending members and audiences for less well-known guests (however good - and they always were) could dip down into single figures. But please go along and add your support to a good venue and to Sheila Miller, who runs a very good club!

Anne

Subject: RE: Club - The Cellar Upstairs, London?
From: breezy
Date: 02 Oct 06 - 08:48 AM

go and get involved, clubs need support.

Tonight Herga meets at a new venue

Subject: RE: Club - The Cellar Upstairs, London?
From: treewind
Date: 02 Oct 06 - 09:46 AM

Wot Anne and Breezy said.
Especially November 18th...
Come and say hello!

Anahata

Subject: RE: Club - The Cellar Upstairs, London?
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 02 Oct 06 - 10:11 AM

But not wot I said? Don't you like cats and Spitfire, Anahata?
Anyway, another place with music fairly nearby actually run by young people is The Magpie's Nest . Folk-type stuff on the last Wednesday of every month.

Subject: RE: Club - The Cellar Upstairs, London?
From: jessmurray
Date: 02 Oct 06 - 12:04 PM

thanks for the advice all!

Subject: RE: Club - The Cellar Upstairs, London?
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Oct 06 - 01:06 PM

Actually Diane, that young folkie place in Islington (I think I'm right in thinking that it's in that neck of the woods, without double checking) now has it's own website, rather than that of the pub itself,as here http://www.themagpiesnest.co.uk/
Give or take rather more than a few typos, grammatical errors etc which I keep meaning to give Sam some feedback on !
Regards
Irene

Subject: RE: Club - The Cellar Upstairs, London?
From: treewind
Date: 02 Oct 06 - 01:18 PM

Sorry Diane, wot you said too.
Except the other two were positively encouraging Jess to go out and visit the club, rather than simply describing it. And yes, I'll have a pint of Spitfire please!

About time the Magpie had its own web site too.

Anahata

Subject: RE: Club - The Cellar Upstairs, London?
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 02 Oct 06 - 01:19 PM

Yeah, I know, surreysinger, but

(a) I couldn't be arsed to look for it
(b) I knew it hadn't been updated
(c) the pub one has a map and also mentions all the other stuff going on there.

Subject: RE: Club - The Cellar Upstairs, London?
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 02 Oct 06 - 01:43 PM

Well Anahata, I wouldn't actually encourage new peeps to venture upstairs at the Exmouth alone and without preparation. Not that it isn't well run but because it has a more than slightly intimidating air towards those not prepared to overlook the quirks and perceived cliquiness. I once took some people there who I'd met at a ceilidh where a certain well-known act who'd done a spot in the break were doing a full concert set. Those I'd taken ended up vowing never to enter a 'folk club' again, so put off were they by disapproving looks. (We weren't all THAT noisy, honest!). The guests weren't all that thrilled either. That's what has to change if some clubs as they are now are going to survive. And it's why I mentioned the Old Queen's Head because it's showing the way to go.

But yes, of course I'll get you a pint of Spitfire on Nov 18th!

Subject: RE: Club - The Cellar Upstairs, London?
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Oct 06 - 04:24 PM

Have to say that The Magpie's website doesn't exactly leap to the fore when you Google for it, even if you know that it does exist, so all three points (a),(b) and (c) completely understood Countess - grins- !

I'm now more than intrigued by descriptions of both venues, and shall have to try them out. Would you recommend some form of survival training for either??

Subject: RE: Club - The Cellar Upstairs, London?
From: Anne Lister
Date: 02 Oct 06 - 05:31 PM

I'd be surprised if there was any genuine cliquey-ness at the Cellar Upstairs for the reasons mentioned in my first post - unless matters have changed a lot, there simply weren't enough regular regulars to form any kind of a clique!
Survival training? No - but please try to persuade the very excellent Tom Paley to play guitar more, if you go and he's there.

And there are a lot of folk clubs who aren't very welcoming to newcomers, aren't there ... and a lot where the audience seems to be largely made up of people who might need care in the community and this is their social club! But if it's any consolation you could meet the same kind of syndrome in many special interest clubs, folk or not. I've recently had a crash course (via my father in law) in meeting people with a passion for model vehicles and public transport, and some of them make even the most stereotypical folkie look positively normal.
(running ducking for cover)

Anne

Subject: RE: Club - The Cellar Upstairs, London?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 02 Oct 06 - 05:37 PM

Wait till you meet gun club members and people with black powder licences for re-enactments....

Subject: RE: Club - The Cellar Upstairs, London?
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 02 Oct 06 - 06:33 PM

try to persuade the very excellent Tom Paley to play guitar more

He's just left for a US tour. But when he gets back in November ask him to play more Svenska låtar. On fiddle.

Subject: RE: Club - The Cellar Upstairs, London?
From: Surreysinger
Date: 02 Oct 06 - 07:21 PM

Whoops - that Guest were me, it were.... lost me cookie!! (Just to be totally grammatical, of course). Phew Anne - what sort of clubs have you been going to then.... mind you, on reflection, I seem to recall that the first club I used to go to on a regular basis had one care in the community type who everybody used to dread! I'm happy to say that our club doesn't seem to have one of those - YET (although I could be too close to it all to notice, I suppose).

Richard, I think I'd rather avoid your suggested crowd (or were they regulars at your local folk club???)

Subject: RE: Club - The Cellar Upstairs, London?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 02 Oct 06 - 08:27 PM

I know one folkie who used to modify standard military issue firearms for increased killing power, and another who has a black powder licence - and another non-folkie who used to have an explosives licence. They are all somewhat curious.

Subject: RE: Club - The Cellar Upstairs, London?
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 02 Oct 06 - 08:32 PM

But we don't think they go to the Cellar Upstairs, do we?

Exmouth Arms is better than previous venue.

Kitty

Subject: RE: Club - The Cellar Upstairs, London?
From: Anne Lister
Date: 03 Oct 06 - 03:10 AM

*g* I think my point was that people can be put off folk clubs for all kinds of reasons, and my "care in the community" comment came from friends of mine on visiting a club for the first time. Which made me look around in other clubs and realise how the audience might appear to newcomers.
As to other oddballs - re-enactors can indeed be a strange bunch and many of them are also folkies, with or without a gunpowder licence. Transport modellers seem to be a race apart. Dalek builders, on the other hand, seem refreshingly normal.
However, none of this should put anyone off visiting the Exmouth Arms, which is usually a good, friendly club (considering its location in almost central London, where people are not known for their friendliness!).

Anne

Subject: RE: Club - The Cellar Upstairs, London?
From: treewind
Date: 03 Oct 06 - 04:59 AM

Kitty: "Exmouth Arms is better than previous venue"
That's good to know. I haven't been there, but I've been to several previous venues for the Cellar Upstairs and they certainly weren't ideal.

Diane: "ask [Tom Paley] to play more Svenska låtar. On fiddle."
You don't have to ask him. He will anyway.

The Magpies's Nest is an experience every London folkie should try. It shows just how different a folk club can be, and in terms of the numbers and average age of the audience, it took me back to the 1970s when I first got involved in all this. It also reminded me of the very occasional visits I've made to Bungies, especially the friendly attitude of other performers. The Old Queens Head grub's not bad either.

Don't expect any hushed reverence or a knowledgeable audience though...

Anahata

Subject: RE: Club - The Cellar Upstairs, London?
From: GUEST,Hootenanny
Date: 03 Oct 06 - 01:13 PM

So Richard wouldn't reccommend "new peeps" by which I guess she means first time visitors, going to the Cellar Upstairs but then encourages anyone that does to ask Mr Paley to play Swedish fiddle tunes. Thanks a lot!
If anything can clear a club room it would be that. Tom is an excellent guitar player and banjo player, I believe he also plays dobro and autoharp and harmonica. If you are lucky enough to catch Tom there when he is back in town ask him to lay off the Swedish stuff although I doubt you'll get much joy. I understand that even the Swedes prefer his other talents.

The Cellar Club as far as I am concerned is one of the better clubs and Sheila should be supported for the many years of effort that she has put into it. Sadly she doesn't get the amount of support that she deserves for some of the lesser known but very good performers that she books AND the beer is good.

Subject: RE: Club - The Cellar Upstairs, London?
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 03 Oct 06 - 01:31 PM

Richard

You mean me? I am titled you know . . .

I didn't say don't go to the Exmouth. I said that if you haven't been before you shouldn't go alone and unprepared for a not wholly welcoming reception if you are unused to rather strange 'oldfolky' codes of behaviour.

And no, it is not true that the Swedes do not appreciate Tom Paley's fiddle playing. They awarded him a bronze Zornmärke, one of the few non-Scandinavians to win such an honour.

Subject: RE: Club - The Cellar Upstairs, London?
From: Surreysinger
Date: 03 Oct 06 - 01:36 PM

"re-enactors can indeed be a strange bunch and many of them are also folkies, with or without a gunpowder licence. Transport modellers seem to be a race apart. Dalek builders, on the other hand, seem refreshingly normal."

Eek! What sort of crowds are you moving in Ann?* Although I have to say that in my previous life as a Tax Inspector, I did share the office with a colleague who was a Parliamentarian soldier in his other life - even brought his headgear and sword in to show everyone. Now I work as a casual box office assistant in the local theatre I wouldn't even turn a hair at that ... Thinks, must look around our club next time it convenes and try and work out which of the conventional people there might be harbouring a secret (with or without a gunpowder licence, of course!

* It was the Dalek building which threw me, I have to admit, despite an addiction to Dr Who since the Daleks first showed their ugly mugs.

Hoping to get to the Exmouth Arms next month some time!

Subject: RE: Club - The Cellar Upstairs, London?
From: Anne Lister
Date: 03 Oct 06 - 03:12 PM

Oh, I'm moving in the very best circles! My husband is an actor/interpreter, which means he spends his working life in historic clothes in a living history museum. As a consequence we get to meet many re-enactors, who are doing it all for love rather than as a job, and I've come to realise how many of them have a love for folk music, too.
He's also part of a couple of Dalek Builders' forums (fora?) here in cyberspace and we've met quite a few of them at different events. That's the builders as well as the Daleks, you understand. So far all we have here is a Dalek dome - he knows he has to build a shed in the garden in order to complete the building of his own Dalek. But last Halloween he insisted on wearing his Ogron costume (Ogron = slave ape-like race, servants to Daleks, not unlike Uruk h'ai from LoTR) to scare all the local trick or treaters. He succeeded, admirably. We're expecting far fewer knocks on the door this year.

All makes quite a change from Sheila's club!

Anne

Subject: RE: Club - The Cellar Upstairs, London?
From: GUEST,Hootenanny
Date: 03 Oct 06 - 04:21 PM

Your words were "I wouldn't actually encourage new peeps to venture upstairs at the Exmouth alone and without preparation".

I did not state that the Swedes did not appreciate Tom's playing of Swedish fiddle music, only that they prefer his other talents. I guess I should have said "some Swedes".

As for titles for people,other than Mr, Mrs or Miss they are meaningless to me.

Titles for songs and tunes are useful.

Subject: RE: Club - The Cellar Upstairs, London?
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 03 Oct 06 - 04:39 PM

I know exactly what I said, and so does anyone else who has the wit to scroll up and look. I merely expanded upon it after you had misquoted me shamefully. You couldn't even get my Mudcat name right. And none of the titles you mention are of any use to me.

Whereabouts in Sweden, and just how extensively did you conduct your survey on musical opinion? I think it's rather rude, dubious in accuracy and certainly unkind to slag off a musician of international reputation who attends many London venues as a floor performer when in town and will surely get to hear of your snide and unjustified criticism. Tom Paley isn't the best exponent of Swedish fiddle music in the world and I don't believe he would claim to be so. But he is a valuable source, generous with his knowledge and one of the few who is readily available to learn from in London. I owe him a lot over the past several decades and I deplore the tendency to treat him as some kind of joke. It's not big and it's not clever.

Subject: RE: Club - The Cellar Upstairs, London?
From: GUEST,Hootenanny
Date: 03 Oct 06 - 06:00 PM

Richard, do calm down dear.

Just to put the record straight I am not slagging off Tom Paley, he is a musician that I have much admired and appreciated since his earliest appearances on disc with the new Lost City Ramblers. I would merely say that he is a far superior musician on guitar and banjo than he is on fiddle, Tom would not argue that point I am sure. Also in my opinion on fiddle his music is more appreciated generally in the UK when he plays American rather than Swedish material.
Before you ask, my opinion is based on seeing him regularly since he first took up residence in the UK. The "some Swedes" to whom I refer were in London, they do sometimes escape you know.

To return to the point of this thread can I say to the original poster Do go to the Cellar Upstairs and ignore the rubbish spoken about the audience. Both as a performer and member of the audience I have always had a good evening there. If you are fortunate enough to catch an evening when Tom is there then you can make up your own mind about his music and the audience.
Go along with an open mind AND a sense of humour.

Subject: RE: Club - The Cellar Upstairs, London?
From: treewind
Date: 12 Nov 06 - 03:13 AM

Next saturday November 18 - Mary Humphreys and Anahata at the Cellar Upstairs. Ignore what it says on the Cellar Upstairs website about pipes (I haven't played them for months) but we'll be there with the usual numerous squeezeboxes, cello and banjo.

Bring your open mind and sense of humour too if you think you might need them...

Anahata

Subject: RE: Club - The Cellar Upstairs, London?
From: Saro
Date: 12 Nov 06 - 05:00 AM

Yes, please take Anahata's advice and go along - and then put Jan 13th in your diary and come and see Craig Morgan Robson! (Sorry, i don't mean to imply that you shouldn't attend the other nights aas well...go to those too if you can.)
Saro