BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed

Subject: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 02 Oct 06 - 05:45 PM

Has anyone been through this kind of scenario?

The drug in question is amphetamine.

More specifically, my ex partner (girlfriend) appears to have a personality disoder (narcissistic/borderline/antisocial)

We have a brilliant and beautiful 2 year old daughter who I fortunately have custody of.

The best way to describe my life until my ex moved out is that it was like the 3 of us were in a car with my ex driving, only she was blindfolded and burning down the road at 150 MPH whilst chugging at a bottle of whiskey.

I had our daughter on our knee and would say "you're going too fast" but she would tell me to stop criticizing her and hit the throttle even harder.

Me finally getting the protection of the courts (and believe me in the English legal system this is no mean feat and reqires focus, a hard chin, a willingness to take the blows and sacrifice everything) was like creating a protective bubble around myself and my daughter so my ex could crash if she wanted to but we would be safe.

She still hasn't learned though.

She's still shagging the men, still doing the drugs, still feeling sorry for herself.

But more worrying, the last time it was her turn to have our little girl around to give her her evening meal, she took her to her dealers instead.

She got back way after bedtime and little girl had a really sore bottom because her nappy was full and it was obvious that nobody had bothered to change it for at least an hour.

A million and one excuses for every thing from "the taxi was late" to "there was no credit on my phone" to "it was a different steve" to "But I didn't have any nappies".

Why the fuck not - you were supposed to be responsible for her for an hour - you are her mother - you should have been prepared or left early (or in this case maybe on time instead of an hour late would have done)

It is heartbreaking to watch the future prospects of a child crumble before she has a chance to even know what "opportunity" means.

I live in a constant state of simmering rage that someone could be so heartless and selfish. I don't understand how someone can be so stubborn and cruel and also have such a desire for sympathy.

RAAAAAGHHHH!!!!

Sorry, but some mothers don't deserve their kids.

Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: Mr Red
Date: 02 Oct 06 - 05:57 PM

when I hear people explaining that drugs should be made legal but controlled I do wonder that those people ever hear these kind of stories. Sure the are told but do they hear?

Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 02 Oct 06 - 06:06 PM

"you were supposed to be responsible for her for an hour"
One doesn't expect a duck to meow, does one? Whey expect a drug addict to be responsible?? The failling is yours, for expecting and outcome that you knew was pure fiction from the beginning....

" I live in a constant state of simmering rage that someone could be so heartless and selfish."
Sounds to me like YOU need to take a good long read of the Serenity Prayer.... YOU can't change HER.... Wrap your head around that...


"I don't understand how someone can be so stubborn and cruel and also have such a desire for sympathy"
Then you don't understand thing one about addiction....

"Me finally getting the protection of the courts"
Why not fight to have her kicked out of your (And your daughters) life all together?!?! You'd all be better off for it...

"some mothers don't deserve their kids"
D'uh....   This is news???

Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: Little Hawk
Date: 02 Oct 06 - 06:11 PM

It's easy to get into a relationship (or marriage). Not nearly so easy to get out of it. Believe me, I know about that...have had a couple of experiences myself along that sort of line, but not quite as extreme as yours, lox. Thankfully! But reasonably close.

Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 02 Oct 06 - 06:16 PM

Clinton

I hear you.

I understand more than my post lets on. The desiderata of which you speak is relevant, true and wise but is as a mere thimblefull of water over big pile of embers.

Some posts express wisdom, others the heart and it's ever unanswered plea for sanity. This one is of the latter type.

The arrangement as it stands is an interim one with a final hearing due in november.

There is, I am afraid, no such thing as kicking her out altogether. I do intend to try and reduce propensity for harm as much as humanly possible though.

I'll throw in a few more details as I calm down :-)

Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Oct 06 - 06:22 PM

this woman wouldn't be a famous singer would she ?

Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 02 Oct 06 - 06:23 PM

sorry to disappoint - at least she would then have some redeeming feature.

Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Oct 06 - 06:33 PM

If you want your daughter to see her mother then go for supervised contact. I don't want to sound patronising as I am sure you know all about the option. But for those who don't - you drop your child off at a 'contact centre', where professionals sit in and observe discreetly.

The centres (to a two year old) just look like a huge playroom. There are toys and juice and parents playing happily, but more importantly safely.

You don't have to stay, so mother and daughter do get time 'alone' together. Good luck.

Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 02 Oct 06 - 06:35 PM

"Not nearly so easy to get out of it."
Anybody can break a promise... It takes a lawyer to break a vow!

"a mere thimblefull of water over big pile of embers"
Your mistake is thinking that it's your fire to put out....

" There is, I am afraid, no such thing as kicking her out altogether."
Then maybe the law is different over there.... Too bad... You aughta lobby to have it changed.

"plea for sanity"
In this world?!?! See above re: Ducks meowing....

Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: Janie
Date: 02 Oct 06 - 06:45 PM

I was thinking along the same lines as Guest of 6:33 pm.

What a very difficult situation! Damage control is often the best one can do in these situations. My heart goes out to you and your daughter. I hope the day comes when Momma decides she wants her life to be something other than a train wreck. If that doesn't happen, you may eventually have to decide that your daughter seeing her is more harmful than not seeing her.

Blessings.

Janie

Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: Little Hawk
Date: 02 Oct 06 - 06:47 PM

"Anybody can break a promise... It takes a lawyer to break a vow!"

Bloody right! I thank God I didn't marry my first or my second girlfriend. Or have a child with either. Christ. It doesn't bear thinking about. There are worse things than death, in my opinion.

Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 02 Oct 06 - 07:22 PM

She should never have the child unattended and she should never be allowed to drive with the child and you should certainly turn her in to the authorities for child endangerment and drug abuse and kick her out of your house. She might live in the streets and she might die but that is a decision she made when she took her first hit. Take your daughter and get far away if you can. Do whatever you can through the legal system. Don't give her chance after chance.   Not one chance ever again. Chances to a meth addict are like nothing. They will lie, steal, do whatever. Your child is absolutely unsafe with her and her creepy friends. Sooner or later she will be molested. If you do not get rid of this horrid woman (who may have redeeming qualities but none that are relevant right now) then turn the child in to foster care for her protection. mg

Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 02 Oct 06 - 07:43 PM

Underneath that austere exterior Clinton, there is a very funny man...


Ducks meowing LOL


As anticipated, much in the way of different perspectives and thought provoking wisdom has been given to me.

It is risky throwing your personal crap into an open forum like this, but I have seen enough of it to know that 1. everyone will disagree but 2. that they will be honest considered and genuine in what they have to offer.

I will come back and add to this tomorrow having had the benefit of some sleep, by giving more info and background.

Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: Big Mick
Date: 02 Oct 06 - 08:41 PM

lox, I want to tell you how very much I admire you. You fought for the safety of your daughter, and I am sure the price was huge in many ways. You are the kind of a man I would hope my own daughters would find to walk the world with. Thank you for setting such a splendid example. Your little girl is so lucky you are in her life, and one day will realize that.

There is no need to restate the excellent advice above, other than to second the fact that this woman must never, ever be with this child alone. You have fought so hard for her so far, that you must not let your ex endanger her in any way.

And in the meantime, I offer my hopes and prayers that this woman will hit bottom and seek the help she so desperately needs. Your daughter would be better off if she had two people in her life.

All the best,

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: SINSULL
Date: 02 Oct 06 - 11:13 PM

lox,
I have been in a similar situation. PM me if you want to talk about it.

Meantime, your little girl can not be left alone with her mother. Go back to court and plead your case. With any luck at all Mom will disappear into the woodwork and allow you to raise your child in as normal, safe, and loving an environment as possible.

I respect your commitment and admire your strength in handling this mess.

Good luck.
SINS

Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: Barry Finn
Date: 03 Oct 06 - 02:58 AM

Hi Lox
I can not say how much I agree wit CH & mg. My father was a junkie, my step father an alcholic, so please believe me, your daughter should never be alone & unsupervised with her mother, never be driving with her & she needs any & all remaing custody rights removed. (I would not normally have said something like this but I'm probably closer to this than most any one you'll ever meet & at this point I don't really care who knows what about me anymore). She needs your complete protection from her, it may be sad but the duck isn't going to meow. It'll be best for the long run too. I never met my father, once he was out until I was 12 about 13 by then he had cleaned up his act & my mother was sure of it & he stayed that way for the rest of his life. We became very close in my late teens when he was trying to help me with my drug problems & we stayed that way up untill his death. So my sister & I had a good 35+ yrs with him as a good friend. Hopefully your daughter will be as lucky but most are not & it'll take along time if that does happen so no matter what it's all about her saftey. Kids die in the hands of junkies.
Good luck, but you already know you'll be needing a lot more than that.

Barry

Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: Donuel
Date: 03 Oct 06 - 07:52 AM

Recovery from amphetamines will never be complete.
The receptors in the brain are decimated. Serotonin levels will never be the same. A life long depression will result without treatment. The teeth will fracture and fall out.

IN my day the word was Speed Kills.

Back then people ate inhalers for benzedrine, dieters ground their teeth with over the counter speed and truckers would stay up for 5 days popping bennies. Little has changed despite the drug war started by Nixon which criminalized users and sellers alike.

Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: fat B****rd
Date: 03 Oct 06 - 08:04 AM

All of the above, Lox. I wish I had something clever to say to you. As it is. Take care and best from Charlie.

Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: jacqui.c
Date: 03 Oct 06 - 08:23 AM

Same as FB - I can't add anything to what has already been said except, perhaps, try not to badmouth her mother to your daughter. She will make up her own mind how she feels about her in time. Your daughter will respect you for not doing that - I know - my kids have told me so.

Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 03 Oct 06 - 10:09 AM

cheers folks -

Reading that stuff it's like having been floundering in the ocean just to keep afloat only to find a big bouncy castle sized LI-LO rising up under you from the depths.

I'm kind of sitting up wobbling about feeling a bit giddy and deeply flattered (who says flattery has to be shallow).

You are all consistent in one thing though and that is the hard choice that I face.

It is easy to point out hard realities when you are not embroiled in a situation, but can be hard to face them and to be tough in ones decision making when you are. especially when the person in question is somebody that you have invested so much in time and feeling into and they are the mother of your child to boot.

Hearing responses based on a consistent pattern of "well done keep going" on the one hane and "wake up and smell the coffee" on the other helps to strengthen the heart, steel the nerves and focus the mind.

Were it just one or the other I might become absorbed by my ego on the one hand or defensive in the extreme on the other.

SINSULL, I am grateful for your invitation to PM you on the subject. However, my intention in throwing this at the mudcat was to reach as wide and varied an audience as possible so as to benefit from the diversity of perspectives available on this site.

The responses I have read so far have all been based on a minimum of information so far. To give a full and complete history would take a whole thread in itself.

I would therefore like to invite those of you who have experience and feel you have something of value to offer to ask me the questions that spring to mind. I have nothing to hide and I will give full frank answers explaining any ambiguities along the way.

It's all about getting to the bottom of "it" and making sure the advice really is "right"

cheers folks

Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 03 Oct 06 - 10:18 AM

PS - Jacqui.c

I absolutely agree!

Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: wysiwyg
Date: 03 Oct 06 - 10:21 AM

Lox,

I step-mothered a girl in a situation a bit less severe than you describe, but very similar. Until I came on the scene when she was 10, she had a lot of mother-figures in her life to take up the slack from her mother.

You've gotten sound advice here. Your daughter needs you to be an advocate for her and to help her understand that her mother is sick and can't take good care of her right now. I would strongly suggest you get some professional supportive help for yourself as well, so you can maintain that focus and have a place to vent the feelings of rage and disappointment that will also be part of your view of the mother for a long time.

Also, my nephew has some things in common with your daughter, too. He learned at an early age, which adults could be relied upon and which were to be considered there for enjoyment, at best. As he said one day to his grandma-- as a preteen talking of his mother-- "We are dealing with unkown forces here."

Mudcat can be a place where you can focus on the positives with your daughter, too-- a place where you can shift your attention from the maddening aspects of dealing with her mother, and just pour out your heart about the wonderful miracle your daughter is. Don't forget to tell us all about her in the months and years ahead! :~)

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 03 Oct 06 - 10:27 AM

Don't get me started ...

Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: kendall
Date: 03 Oct 06 - 10:28 AM

Figure out what is REALLY best for the child, then do it.

Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: Alice
Date: 03 Oct 06 - 10:37 AM

Lox, you could go into the details for weeks and yet the basic problem is the same for all situations where a parent is an addict. The child needs to be safe. It doesn't matter what kinds of drama and stories you can tell us. Those of us who have had relationships with an alcoholic or addict have lots of long dramatic stories, too, but the bottom line is safety and creating a healthy environment for that child. That means being the parent should be either kept away from the child completely when they behave in a way that psychologically or physically endangers the child, or the contact should be limited to HIGHLY SUPERVISED visits, preferrably in a professionally supervised space as described in the "contact centre" post by Guest.

Remember you cannot change her! Get yourself to counseling for dealing with an addict! You will learn a healthier way to separate and protect from the damaging person and move into a healthier future for your child and yourself. I once had great advice given to me to think of an alcoholic I had to get away from - I was told to think of him as a stranger I've never met. His crazy life would go on and I could continue in a life separate from him. Positive Mental Attitude for you will help your child have a better childhood. Positive mental attitude means you do not dwell on what you can't control or change, and you can't control or change an addict. Let the past go. If you have to get it out, tell it to a counselor or write it down, then see it as gone and in the past. Going over and over her bad behavior will just keep you mired in the past. You need that energy to be spent on building a positive future.

Good Luck!

Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 03 Oct 06 - 10:37 AM

well up until sunday I would have held back on the supervised contact idea but now I can't see any alternative.

Before all the court nonsense kicked off I was present on 4 different occasions when my daghter found bags containing amphetamine residue.

The one thing I can seem to rely on from my ex is that no matter how bad the last stupid thing she has done is, she will absolutely for sure find a way to top it.

It's like she's been developing a talent over the last few years, or she's seeing it as some sort of challenge - what gross act of irresponsible reckless madness can I indulge in that would completely eclipse the last.

I simply cannot fathom her attitude.

Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 03 Oct 06 - 10:40 AM

Alice.

Yes - You are right.

I don't know about professional counselling, but extricating myself from the mire is essential

Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: Wesley S
Date: 03 Oct 06 - 11:41 AM

Check your local resources for Narcotics Anonamous. There is bound be be an Al-Anon type group affiliated with it. They can help you learn how not to rescue her every time she has a crisis. You might even learn how to see the warning signs the next time you get into a relationship. Many folks break up with an addict so that they can start a relationship with a brand new addict. I hope you're not one of those.You can't help her. You can only help yourself and your daughter. It's one day at a time. And today's the day.

Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: katlaughing
Date: 03 Oct 06 - 11:43 AM

Well said, Alice. I agree wholeheartedly.

Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 03 Oct 06 - 01:46 PM

Lox, my son is 25 and has been an addict for the past 10 years - the absolute classic scenario, 'harmless' Pot to begin with (there's a f**kin' joke!), then Speed, Ecstasy, Temazepam, then Smack, then methadone, now methadone + temazepam. The hardest thing is to realise that you can't get another person off drugs, and that you are not responsible for what they do. It's a hard truth.

In almost 60 years of life I've never taken any illegal substance whatsoever, yet my life became dominated by drugs and addiction, and I only began to move forward when I accepted that I couldn't stop his addiction and that it wasn't my fault, and removed myself from his social circle.

I offer heartfelt best wishes to you, and I hope that you reach a happy conclusion as soon as possible.

Best,
S:0)

Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: Alice
Date: 03 Oct 06 - 01:48 PM

Lox, two things in your last post I want to address...
You can't fathom her behavior - that is because you are expecting her to be rational, sensible and trustworthy - and drug users are not rational, sensible or trustworthy!!!   You have been in love with a fantasy of what you wish her to be, not WHO SHE REALLY IS! It is hard to accept, but you have to face the fact that you have allowed a person to stay in your life who is dangerous and untrustworthy because you HOPED she wasn't. Get the fantasy of her out of your mind and face how she really behaves. Don't believe the nice things she says or does... it is all a manipulation to get away with the other crap she does.

I've been in your shoes, so please read this through a few times.
The other thing is that you were there when your little girl found drugs on four occasions. WHY was there the second, third and fourth occasion? Not because the addict didn't stop the drugs, it is expected an addict won't stop the drugs, but because you stayed around the addict with your daughter for it to happen again. I'm not trying to put a guilt trip on you, I know how UNBELIEVABLE their behavior is, so sometimes we go into denial that it could be happening or could happen over and over. ACCEPT reality and see that it will keep happening. This is where a professional could help you get in touch with the reality of what you can expect if you keep her around yourself and your daughter. I remember staying around someone who eventually threatened to kill me, just because I couldn't believe it was happening to me. It seemed unreal, but I'm telling you, the irrational and dangerous behavior from an addict is what you have to EXPECT. Don't expect her to act normally. Expect danger, and get your girl and yourself far away.

Take care,

Alice

Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 03 Oct 06 - 01:52 PM

"Narcotics Anonamous. There is bound be be an Al-Anon type group affiliated with it"

Ya... so you can trade one addiction problem for another one....

Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Oct 06 - 02:21 PM

lox if you are in the UK check out RELEASE. They offer excellent counselling services for those affected by addiction through being close to the addict.

Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 03 Oct 06 - 03:27 PM

Alice -

Good question.

Here's the answer - and it brings up a the question of another debate that was much in the news a couple of years ago but which has fizzled out now that it is no longer the flavour of the month - namely fathers rights.
_____________________________

A bit of background:

Three days after I ended our relationship in August 2003 (as a result of the same addiction and general abusive behaviour), she rang me to inform me that she was pregnant and intended to keep the baby. Nine months of blackmail and manipulation then ensued.

When our child was born, I stayed in her flat on the sofa as there was no way on this earth that I was going to avoid my responsibility to my child and besides, the moment I saw her I WAS her Daddy. To me that means 100% commitment and sacrifice. Slowly, the inevitable gravity drew us back together.

her mother refused to put my name on the birth certificate (her discretion legally) because she didn't want me "having rights"

She is a psychiatric nurse, and while pregnant she worked in child protection as a paper pusher because it is inappropriate to have a pregnant woman doing active nursing and risking the uncertainties that go with the job. While there she learned about the legal status quo in this country.

If she ever had power as a result of the emotional blackmail she had inflicted before, it was nothing compared to what she could do once she realised that she could effectively control every aspect of my life with the threat that if I didn't toe the line she would simply click the "off" switch and I would be history.

This meant not only that I was subject to her every whim, but also that she was free to do whatever she liked whenever she liked and to ignore all responsibility and consequence on the basis that if I started something I risked the same "off" switch being flicked.

Fathers rights are a minefield in Britain as a rule. Fathers rights in the context described (in a nutshell) above are the equivalent of defusing a nuclear bomb with 10 seconds to go and tring to figure out which wire to cut next.

I was powerless to do anything for two and a half years, but have always known that I was and continue to be my daughters best if not only hope. I have therefore kept my head down and taken the punches. It may sound silly to some, but story's like the accounts of Ali's fight in Zaire against foreman that I've read, where he learned how to absorb foremans bonecrushing power until foreman got tired or made a mistake have been the stuff that has kept me going.

In the end, I couldn't take any more, and I subtly and carefully learned what I needed to do to neutralize the threat that I was facing. One day I called her bluff and she announced that that was it. She appeared to enjoy the whole process, teasing me with it in a way that demonstrated an almost fetishistic relish.

She came home from work one day to find a courier waiting for her from the court who issued her with an order prohibiting her from removing our daughter from our property.

Since then I have been unfolding again. She has done her damndest to try and hurt me, but none of it has teeth anymore as I have been very careful to ensure that my daughters is safe and secure with the only person in her life who has given her consistent care love loyalty honesty and attention.

I have lost every material thing I had to make it possible, but none of it mattered to me.

The reality that I am facing now is that that was not the war, just the first battle. The D-day landings if you like. I have a long long way to go and have other minefields to cross, the most dangerous one being the propensity for this whole situation to turn nasty if the dealer decides that it is all his business too.

Sunday's events are the indicator of the long drawn out reality of the future of this whole messy affair.

Anyway, to cut a long story short, Alice, the reason once became twice and three and four times was because I couldn't do anything without upending the whole apple cart. I needed to be patient on the one hand and "there" on the other.

I'll post this now as it is so that there is still some memory left on max's computer.

Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Oct 06 - 04:00 PM

Is she still a psychiatric nurse? And this either will or won't sit easy with you, but some counsellors would advise you let her employers know the situation.

The reason being she needs to have the rug pulled out from under her feet completely in order to learn how to stand up again. It will also strengthen your position in any ensuing court battle. How can she be that bad if she is employed in a caring profession? That's one line her solicitor would trot out.

If wages pay for her addiction she needs to have them stopped. If she is still employed then I hazard a guess she has to fall a lot further before recovery. What would she do to fund her habit? Shoplifting? Prostitution? It isn't your problem. But if her addiction is being disguised to the outside world due to the normality of holding down a job she won't change a thing.

Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 03 Oct 06 - 04:07 PM

Strollin Johnny

I believe your situation to be a thousand times more hurtful than mine.

Ditching an lover, with whom one has voluntarily become entangled to be begin with is one thing, but having to be philosophical in the way that you obviously have in the knowledge of what you have had to accept is something that I don't know if I would have the strength to face.

Clearly "the cycle" doesn't apply in your case, though I don't want it repeated in mine. My bifggest fear is to do with my daughters long term prospects , aspirations etc

My heart goes out to you.

In fact, while my eyes are open, I will take stock of the spectrum of realities that has provoked the very positive and warm response that I have been privileged to receive. I am extremely grateful to you all and hope that this hasn't all been too self indulgent.

This ultimately has proved to be the greatest value of my decision to share this with you.

I don't feel so alone in my ordeal. It was shallow to begin with but as is inevitable understanding and wisdom grow deeper the further we explore.

Thanks for your precious time everyone!

Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 03 Oct 06 - 04:23 PM

Guest

You have touched on a point that is very troubling to me.

A few years ago, She was suspended from work for a couple of years and investigated for gross misconduct (details best reserved).

Her union rep told her, upon lookng at her statement that she would lose her Job.

I, being somewhat suited to such tasks, sorted her out with a statement that not only excused her actions, but redirected the finger of blame squarely onto the ward where she worked, and certain key members of staff that she worked with.

I did a good job and nothing came of the investigation into har, while the ward where she worked appears to have undergone some serious overhauling.

What would the oucome of the investigation have been if they had known that she was spending around £50 per week on speed at the time. ( in the UK a gram of speed sells for £2.50) so we're talking 20 grams a week - and that's not at wholesale prices either so you could probably bump that up to at least 21, which would equate to 3 grams a day.

Not to mention that before I met her she was having an affair with her boss, the son of one of her colleagues (a colleague who coincidentally was implicated as a bully in the statement that I "edited" for her) and very possibly one of her patients.

I have enough knowledge to pull that rug with devastating effect should I so choose. The question is whether that is really something in my daughters interest, which ultimately is my primary concern as selfish as that seems now that I have written it in cold print ...

Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: jacqui.c
Date: 03 Oct 06 - 04:55 PM

Lox - If it means that you have more of a chance of keeping custody of the little girl then do it.

There are also this woman's patients/co-workers to consider. Can she really do this kind of job to the best of her ability whilst her main thrust seems to be feeding her habit? What happens if she falls down on the job because of this and someone gets hurt as a result?

I would agree with GUEST 4.00pm - she needs the rug pulled out from under, for her own sake as well as the sake of all the others who could be affected.

Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Oct 06 - 04:59 PM

Your daughter has a drug addict as a mother. Does her being an employed drug addict make it any better? Does it help the situation? Or are her wages helping her fund her addiction and not have to face up to the stark reality of what she has become?

She needs as many people as possible to point out in no uncertain terms that her conduct is unnacceptable. Her addiction is affecting her ability to mother. I doubt if it has no effect on her ability to nurse. She might not listen to you as you are too emotionally involved in the situation, but an employer is a different kettle of fish.

They will put their patients care first and there will be no grey areas. They could surprise you, they might even offer her professional help.

Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 03 Oct 06 - 05:42 PM

Guest - your last sentence is important.

It is a way of looking at things that I had not considered.

I have spent much time trying to "help" and it has been like trying to fill a bottomless pit.

I have long since retracted my desire to help, and am now left with (rapidly subsiding) feelings of anger.

There are dregs of sympathy left for her though in me, and "pulling the rug" has always seemed somehow a little too much, and while I have been betrayed countless times, and know that my loyalty is irrelevant as it is not understood let alone appreciated, I have felt reluctant to let the air out of the dingy so to speak, as I have felt that it would be malicious and equally indefensible in it's own right.

After all, two wrongs don't make a right.

The possibility that her employers might offer her support in their dealings with the problem somehow anaesthetises that concern.

My feeling is though (and it is supported by the knowledge I gleaned from supporting her 5 years ago), that once the truth is known and properly investigated, that she won't be a nurse any more.

How will she survive?

Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: Wesley S
Date: 03 Oct 06 - 05:53 PM

"How will she survive?"

That's not your problem. Your problem is how will your daughter survive.

Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: Barry Finn
Date: 03 Oct 06 - 06:02 PM

The best thing for your daughter is to have a straight mother, which may never be a reality. Her job as a nurse puts her in an eviorment that's a set up for failure, she a drug addict who's constantly around drugs! Her recovery is in your daughter's best interests but your daughter comes first & therefore her needs are more important than weither or not her mother recovers or not, at least for the present. Having no rights to her child will be helpful to every one involved. It might even help the mother come to terms with her addiction though I doubt it at the moment. A junkie doesn't think rational, there thoughts are always geared towards the next dose. So she's a danger to anyone she surrounds herself with. Her judgment is so far off that it's not possible to be a care giver, to herself, her charges or her daughter & you. I don't know how it is in the UK but if there's a social services for children she needs to be reported for child neglect & abuse (it is abuse) & you need to get both you & your daughter all the legal, medical, financial & child assisstence you can as well as legally distancing you & your daughter from her as far as possible. She needs to have all parental rights taken away as soon as can be. Only to be partly restored if & when she can prove to a court that she is reformed & clean. Prove her addiction to a court no matter what it takes & get complete custody of your daughter now. The courts may be a minefield for fathers but no court wants a kid to be in the postion that your daughter is in.

Again, good luck Lox

Barry

Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 03 Oct 06 - 06:47 PM

How would it be good for my daughter if her mother fell into prostitution or other worst case scenario's as a result of having the rug pulled?

She will have hard realities to face about her mother as it is as she grows up without having to face up to that kind of possibility.

This is one frustrating aspect. When you have a child, you become two people - yourself but also your childs parent.

I believe we define ourselves by our actions.

In a world of individuals, go ahead, define yourself how you like. But in your own childs interests let them have a definition of their mommy/daddy that they can feel good about.

My ex is running around defining her daughters mother in as uncompromisingly negative a way as she can.

If I push that deeper by really leaving her in the s**t then how am I helping her emotional health?

At the end of the day I know that above all, honesty is paramount and it is according to that maxim that I will measure each decision I make - but it's not easy

Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 03 Oct 06 - 06:50 PM

"then how am I helping her emotional health?" (I mean my daughters emotional health)

Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: Amergin
Date: 03 Oct 06 - 06:52 PM

MY best mate went through a very similar situation....he works for Foss Maritime, and when he would go out to sea she would bring her junkie friends in around their daughters...finally, he got enough support from family for when he was gone....and he kicked her out....they are divorced now....and although he is gone for months at a time he has full custody of the girls. In over two years she has not visited her daughters once....she is too wrapped up in her meth addiction....There are rumours also of heroin....

I went and visited them for a few days...and they told me something that broke my heart....but it is what he tells them....and it is the complete truth. "Our mommy is sick, when she gets better she will come see us."

Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 03 Oct 06 - 07:01 PM

Whether she survives or not is something you have no control over. If she does, she does, and if she doesn't she doesn't. People die all the time. What I care about is her daughter and her patients. Do not be an enabler. Report her and save your daughter and save the patients. Do not worry if she becomes a prostitute. She might. Deal with it then. mg

Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Oct 06 - 07:08 PM

To be honest lox your daughter is going to grow up for the forseeable future without a mother being a role model. The reason why she isn't a role model doesn't really matter to her. A two year old doesn't have degrees of hurt.

If her mother isn't at her first nativity play watching her dressed up as an angel and fluffing her lines, your daughter will either be upset or not be upset. She doesn't need at this stage to know why her mother isn't there. It wouldn't make sense to her.

I think you are still thinking too much, although understandably,about the effect all this will have on your ex. So you report her to her employer and either:

a) She is dismissed and hates you forever. Falls into a life of crime to fund her habit and has supervised contact with your daughter.

b) She is offered help at work. The shock of her facing her demons with her employers gives her the push to accept help. She slowly recovers and has a relationship with your daughter, on your terms.

c) She continues to do a passable job at work and the health service being the way it is, they are grateful she turns up and turn a blind eye to her unexplained decrease in performance. She gets paid, scores and has supervised contact with your daughter.

Can you think of another scenario? Are you still clinging onto the hope she will wake up and feel the same love for your daughter that you do and never touch the gear again? Granted it could happen. Is it likely in the near future?

By asking how prostitution could help the situation sounds as though you put more faith in her finding an alternative way to fund the habit than break it. And you know her best.

Out of interest and don't answer if you don't want to, how did you get custody if you weren't on the birth certificate. I never knew fathers could force their paternity to be aknowledged, but in situations such as yours it is reassuring to know they can.

Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 03 Oct 06 - 07:29 PM

Yes

I've toyed with that Idea, but not quite got there yet - daughter is still too young to understand much of it, although she is fully aware that there is a problem.

For the record, mothers departure from the home hasn't resulted in the expected traumatised behaviour scenario, but rather the child has actually calmed down a lot (was already well behaved and bright)and is really developing into a clever, thoughtful together and confident individual.

Life at home has never been so relaxed and carefree.

The issue now is keeping her out of harms way - ie not going round to dealers house where needs are ignored.

mg - I have been slowly digesting what you said and considering how off the handle you may have flown, but in fact I fear you may not be as far off the mark as I wish you were.

My daughter is extremely beautiful and looks like growing up to be a bit of a looker.

What you say about creeps does concern me (and I am not the kind of guy to go out and lynch a paediatrician because I didn't know that means he's a "childrens doctor" and not a "chld molester" as crowds of people have been known to do in this country rather than spend a few short minutes checking their dictionaries)

I know the guy in queston has had his son run errands for him. I know he is the main source of stability for a 13 year old girl, herself known to abuse drugs and to be sexually active, and she in turn has a boyfriend who is in and out of youth correctional facilities. The girls mother was constantly overdosing before finally committing suicide fairly recently.

Myself and the Dealer had a period of contact at one point as I felt it worth trying to appeal to his better nature, but after a while I cut all lines of communication as my ex was stirring things up between us and he made it clear that he didn't wish to be involved in our dispute and that if I involved him in any way that was detrimental to the quality of the last years of his life (he is an old man with a terminal illness) that he had the means and the will to kill if he deemed it necessary.

This is the environment into which my ex feels it is appropriate to bring our daughter and it is the next battle I must win. It is not acceptable and I can't accept it.

I have a plan for now, but the question of her work issues is not a key factor - the key factor in all of this is the risk to the child which, particularly after sunday, is simply not a matter of opinion

Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 03 Oct 06 - 07:33 PM

Yes was to amergin

Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 03 Oct 06 - 07:46 PM

I still don't have parental responsibility and am therefore still not legally anything to do with my daughter.

I put in an application for residency, but the key factor was, that I attended an ex parte court hearing in advance at which an "interim prohibited steps order" was issued, which bound our daughter to her current address until the issue be resolved.

I have been my daughters main carer ever since she stopped breast feeding, but in the current political reality, had I applied for residency and not got an order, mother could have simply upped and left with child, I would not have been able to stop her. She would then probably have been advised to adjourn repeatedly until such time as enough time had passed for her to say "but look, I've been her main carer for 6 months now" etc. I would have been better off saving my money for maintenance.

My intention wasn't to do anything but remove the threat of removal and upheaval etc. I hoped it would be a wake up call. Unfortunately it was all followed by more reckless stupidity and spite of the lowest type, but as I have said before, it lacked teeth as long as my baby was safe.

Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Oct 06 - 08:06 PM

Well done on showing the iniative. Perhaps it was a wake up call, just not the type you envisaged, but in it's way even more important.

It let you see where your ex's priorities lay and armed with that knowledge you are now planning your daughter's future without any maybes or what ifs.

It'll be hard being two parents. And the pleasure of being able to share your daughter's successes with the other parent is being denied you. I hope you have good family/friends around you to help. And never feel ashamed to ask for help.

And already you have noticed the effect in your daughter of having the destabilising influence lessened. That must tell you that you are doing the right thing. So don't doubt yourself.

Yes, you now must ensure your daughter is safe when with her mother, because if it all goes pear shaped you will not only blame yourself but you will be left to deal with the consequences alone.

I hope you look into the option of a contact centre. It offers all three of you a solution regarding them seeing each other. But it removes the invariables.

Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 03 Oct 06 - 08:27 PM

Guest

After reading that suggestion for the first time here tonight, I have called a lawyer friend to discuss it. It may be a possibility, but even if the court agrees (which they may be lothe to do) it won't be enforceable till the hearing at the beginning of november.

There are, in the meantime other ways of getting her to be prudent though, which I can't go into here for obvious reasons, but rest assured they exist.

Guest, I appreciate your focus, understanding and relevant commentary. :-)

To revise an answer I gave on another thread, I do my best thinking when I am confronted by someone elses.

Being online, and connected to a resource like the mudcat (and within that I include it's members) is like having a second brain which is connected to a global consciousness.

If I'd been watching tv I'd still be struggling with square one of this thread on my own.

I must now go to bed as it is very late and the little one doesn't need a cranky Daddy in the morning!

Night night folks

Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Oct 06 - 08:34 PM

No problem. Sleep well, only seven hours until the Tweenies!

Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: Barry Finn
Date: 04 Oct 06 - 02:17 AM

Hi Lox
Do not have any interaction with her dealers. For one it could be misread if the dealer is under survalience & 2nd it may get you killed. A guy I grew up with told his girlfreind's dealer (same situation as you're in) to stop selling to her. The dealer shot him in the head.
I don't think you're really taking this as the drastic situation that it is. You're concerned about the mother's health, welfare & emotional well being, I got news for you, she's not interested in you or your daughter's. Your daughter will get over having a junkie for a mother but she won't get over any harm that's done her by you taking this to lightly or not moving on this swiftly enough. If you need to expose her at her workplace, do it now. If you need to do anything, do it now before your little girl's the worst for it. Please don't take my comments lightly. As I said this was my life, it is also my younger brother's present life (only he is the cause)you won't come closer to anyone else who has lived what your daughter will live. Good luck. PM me if you care to, I'd be happy to help in any way.

Barry

Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Oct 06 - 07:33 AM

Lox, Barry's right about dealers - do not have any truck with them. The ones you'll come into contact with have no interest in anyone's well-being other than their own, and are usually addicts themselves who deal in order to support their own habit. You can't bargain with them and, whilst you may be able to scare the immediate guy (who is very much a bottom-feeder in the scale of things), you won't put the frighteners on the guys further up the chain, his suppliers - the ones with the expensive houses, Mercedes or BMW 4x4s on the driveway, kids in private schools, wives wearing Jimmy Choo shoes etc.

It's a crock of shit you need to keep out of - look after your daughter but cast your ex adrift. If she falls into a hole, it's her problem. You have to step away, your sanity demands it.

And best wishes once again.
S:0)

Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 04 Oct 06 - 07:45 AM

Ultimataly supervised contact (or at the very least very reduced contact are the only answers to all problems stated above.)

As regards my responsibilities to the NHS, I think I will wait till my situation has simmered down before committing to anything, though I agree that I cannot ignore them in good conscience.

Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: jacqui.c
Date: 04 Oct 06 - 08:54 AM

One thought comes to mind. Do you think that this woman ever felt any real love for your daughter? Seems to me that, when she got pregnant she saw that as a bargaining tool to hold over your head with not a thought to the damage that her habit might do to the child she was carrying.

So far as her job is concerned, from the irresponsible way that she has behaved with your daughter it is highly likely that she will be found out at work, perhaps after causing harm to a patient. At that point it is likely that she will be dismissed, particularly if she does not have you to run interference for her this time.

I doubt that your daughter will really be more ashamed of having a prostitute for a mother than a drug addict. Her major problem may be that her mother left and didn't take her and that you need to be aware of.

From your point of view - and this may sound hard - the further this woman goes down the better are your chances of retaining custody of your daughter. As has been previously stated - you must consider what is best for you and the child. This woman has chosen her own path, in spite of the responsibility she was given as a mother and the only person that can change that is her.

Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 04 Oct 06 - 09:24 AM

The last 'GUEST' posting was me BTW!
S:0)

Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: wysiwyg
Date: 04 Oct 06 - 09:31 AM

lox,

In any custody hearing, you will want to be able to speak compassionately about your ex, sincerely hoping she will get help, and hoping that her broken relationship with her daughter can someday be healed for your daughter's sake-- so that the court does not interpret your accusations about the harmful behavior as the revenge of a former lover. BuT you also need to be proactive about getting your daughter protected.

What means do you have of documenting what happened with this awful "visitation" experience? Do you keep written notes of what occurs, and how you learned about it? Do you have anyone who can speak of it, as a witness, other than your daughter?

Did you take a picture of your daughter's condition (red bottom)?

And... how did you learn where she had taken your daughter that night? If it was from your ex, can you tape her saying it again?

Is there anyone who can follow her when she is next due to have time with her daughter?

It isn't pretty in the trenches, when it comes to custody issues. Is your attorney well-versed in the ins and outs?

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 04 Oct 06 - 01:08 PM

Only supervised contact. Not reduced contact. Have you read up on meth addiction? You might as well say she can drag the daughter with her to hell on a reduced basis because that is what she will do. Your daughter will be exposed to the scum of the earth (valuable as people nonetheless) behavior-wise ...people who here in my area are responsible for 80% or so of crimes, of 80% or so of children taken to foster care. And were you referring to my comment about her being molested? I am going next week to a camp for girls who have been -- some are five years old. It is not a pretty sight. mg

Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: growler
Date: 04 Oct 06 - 04:32 PM

I work for a charity,in the drug and alcohol misuse field try this site    http://www.drugs.gov.uk/dat/directory/

Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: leeneia
Date: 04 Oct 06 - 04:40 PM

What if the woman abducts your daughter or goes into a trance and leaves her somewhere?

Can your daughter pronounce her name clearly? Can she pronounce yours clearly? Can she say what city she lives in?

Even if you can, you should write her name in all her clothes.

Wotthehell. Before a visit, take a marker and write your name and phone number right on your daughter.

My newspaper had an article about a woman who needs medical insurance for her foster children. One was girl who was sold into prostitution at the age of four for drugs.

Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 04 Oct 06 - 04:44 PM

Wysiwyg

I have a plan to "catch" her lying and will incorporate a witness - not a hard thing to do, though I'll explain the strategy once I have done it.


mg

I do take your point seriously, but would just like to differentiate between Meth-amphetamine and Speed (plain old amphetamine). My ex uses the latter.

I don't see the danger as being immediate, but as being potentially a longer term threat as she is encouraged by her mother to find that lifestyle and the people who live it to be normal. She will thus be naive in a potentially harmful situation having learned no sense of wariness towards the potential risks that the drugs and the people who do them and sell them pose.

Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 04 Oct 06 - 05:21 PM

From the opening post:

the last time it was her turn to have our little girl around to give her her evening meal, she took her to her dealers instead.

Anyone "dealing" will sell anything to anybody.

Two year old girls are a very marketable commodity in this context.

THAT scares the Hell out of me.

The safety of your daughter comes first, and it's quite obvious that you've recognized that. In a different context, I've been made quite aware of the difficulties encountered when one must seek help in "the system," and can only offer my profound sympathy with the difficulties you face.

Don't back off.

John

Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 04 Oct 06 - 10:57 PM

You're right..I saw amphetamine and thought meth...but how long before she progresses? mg

Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: katlaughing
Date: 04 Oct 06 - 11:33 PM

I don't see the danger as being immediate

I have been involved for the past almost three years, on a daily basis, in raising our grandson. They are incredibly impressionable from birth on and do not have the skills, verbal and otherwise, to KNOW what is "good" or "bad." They need someone who will protect them at all times, i.e. keep them from such bad influences as your ex. If you don't see an immediate danger, I feel sorry for your little girl. As others have said, a drug addict and their dealer are NOT safe people to have a young one around, girl or boy. It seems you are aware of this and are doing what you can to make sure she is safe, but that statement, above, really sets off alarm bells. ANY contact with a user and/or their dealer can present an immediate danger to ANYONE, more so to a small child, imo.

kat

Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 05 Oct 06 - 07:55 AM

kat

The immediate danger of which I spoke was a specific response to mg's concerns about molestation. The dangers which result from havng drugs around are of course immediate and that is what I am fighting to do something about, but it is reassuring to those of you who are interested that she is not in danger of being assaulted by a meth addict.

mg

Her use of amphetamines is directly linked to an eating disorder which is part of a personality disorder that she has had since her teens, and which she will have for the rest of her life.

Originally the Speed was used to self medicate as it is an appetite surpressant. That aspect of it's use is still an essential part of the addiction, but unfortunately you can't choose which effect of the drug you want. The effects are an all or nothing package, as are the consequences. so her addiction to it is as comprehensive by this stage (8 years) as it would be for any other addict.

The eating disorder however remains, and no other drug will do in that regard, so there is unlikely to be any progression.

Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: leeneia
Date: 05 Oct 06 - 09:37 AM

What about your daughter's safety while riding in a car? Is she in a car seat? Does her mother drive safely at all times?

If the answers are No, then your child is in immediate danger.

Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 05 Oct 06 - 09:39 AM

Have another quick read of the first post (which I am assuming this is a response to) The car was a metaphor to describe our life.

Fortunately my ex has no car or license.

Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Oct 06 - 09:49 AM

While the biological damage to a meth user is virtually permanent, the habit of use is not. Where there is life there is hope.

Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: GUEST,NHS patient
Date: 05 Oct 06 - 11:43 AM

does the state of her teeth publicly proclaim her speed addiction
to her patients and employers ?

I'd be concerned by any health worker treating me
who looks iller than I do..

[memories of a dentist in East London who stank of alchohol at 9.00am]

Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Oct 06 - 12:30 PM

something seems a bit fishy in this story. just some jarring notes, twists and turns and inconsistencies of tone. hope this isn't someone manipulating a lot of genuine emotional reaction for their own ends/self-justification/amusement. aplogies of course if not.

Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: Dave'sWife
Date: 05 Oct 06 - 12:44 PM

Lox - I grew up in a family with a substance abuse issue. My parent eventually recovered and things got healed properly. However, since I was in my midteens when the recovery took place, I was fully aware of just how close to total annhilation our family came. I need to say some things to you as the daughter of an 'addict'

You are the sober parent.
You are the one in a postion to protect your child
You are the only one right now who can take certain measures to protect her
You are not married to her mother
As a result, what happens to her mother should be secondary in your concerns
Your child's fuuture mental health depends on what you do now to protect her NOW, not what happens to her mother now.

I know you worry about how she will be impacted if her mother falls even further. However, That is something you don't currently have the luxury of obsessing about. Your ex-girlfriend is a threat to your daughters life, health and emotional wellbeing. You must gather the strength to DISPASSIONATELY do whatever it takes to keep this woman away from your daughter until such time as she has recovered and has been sober for a substantial period of time.

Your ex is a nurse and under the influence of susbtances that greatly impair her judgement. She could kill patients. it is appropriate for you to disclose her condition to her superiors if you have the documentation to prove your accusations. Exposing her substance abuse is appropriate and may help you get the court protection your daughter needs.

As for the visitations - if she has legal right to visitation, you must see about getting those visits ordered to be supervised. The last incident with her taking her to a dealer and then leaving her in a dirty diaper.. should be enough to get an emergency order.
Here in the USA, a father can get a mother's parental rights TERMINATED for such behavior. I don't know what your legal adviser says about such things, bu6t I do hope you are confiding in him/her all these things.

I know she is the mother of your child and you aren't a monster and therefore you are hoping she will have some sort of relationship with the girl. That's good. However, if I could have been heard when my life was in danger from my parent's addiction (and it was in danger frequently) I would have said:

"Mummy/Daddy/Whomever, please for godsake make this insanity stop. Do not leave me alone with this parent! Please tell whomever you have to what is going on: Grandmother/father, teachers, police, clergy, social workers, whomever. I don't care. Just keep me safe. Sure I love {Parent}, but they frighten me. They do things in my presence I shouldn't have to see and expose me to dangers no child should have to endure. These experiences confuse me and make me afraid. All I want is for somebody to stand up and be the adult. If I have to choose between being safe and never seeing {parent} again, I choose never seeing {parent}. If you love me, please protect me and don't make me go with {parent} again until {parent} is sober. Although I am young, these scary encounters affect me. Please just let me be a child. Do what you must and when I am older, I will be so grateful"

I hope that's not to harsh. If I had been able to speak up when I was very little, that is what i would have said.

Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: katlaughing
Date: 05 Oct 06 - 01:36 PM

Thanks for the clarification, lox.

Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: GUEST,Gayle
Date: 05 Oct 06 - 01:41 PM

As a professional educator working in the UK with children of drug addicts the first priority is to keep the child safe and allow her to be a child.
She needs to be taken away from the situation so she can make her own mind up when she's old enough if she wants contact with her mother.

I'm surprised that social services haven't already taken her into care so that her parents can sort their own lives out.

Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Oct 06 - 02:56 PM

Why on earth would social services take a child into care with one caring and perfectly functioning parent?

They are none too quick at taking a child into care with only one disfunctional parent in their life as sole carer.

Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: GUEST,concerned bystander
Date: 05 Oct 06 - 03:35 PM

Are we all satisfactorily convinced that a lone 'careing' parent
is necessarily a 'perfectly functioning parent'?

there are many questions still needing to be asked about the case scenario and the true competance of the father
as presented here !?

sorry if this offends GUEST,lox;

but as you rightly insist,
the genuine welfare & safety of your child is paramount
beyond all other considerations and doubts.

Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 05 Oct 06 - 05:28 PM

Fair enough,

but it is not enough to merely say that there may be inconsistencies, or that we may not know this or that - By the same token, the child and the mother may not even exist at all, or these posts may be being written by a consortium of experimenting psychologists all intent on recording the reactions of mudcaters to the scenario.

Many things may or may not be the case.

Imaginaton is useful as a tool with which to understand and evaluate, but there must be some reference to the actual content of the thread in question.

Please feel free to read back through it and offer examples of inconsistencies or areas of concern so that we may have the benefit of seeing how you arrive at a position where you feel these questions may need to be asked.

And for the record, as part of the proceedings, a court appointed child welfare officer investigates the matter by interviewing both parents and checking out the childs home environment etc, and produces a report.

The paragraph about me is about 4 lines long and states quite simply that there are "no concerns about me whatsoever" as a parent, while there is on the other hand extensive commentary on the mothers use of drugs, psychological issues and ability to prioritize in the interests of her child.

Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Oct 06 - 05:51 PM

Lox here's a hypothetical question for you -

You and ex are together very happily, she has always been a model mum and never gone near drugs. You both work and leave your daughter with a paid registered child minder. You find out that one day the paid registered child minder has taken your daughter to her dealer as she is heavily into speed.You never knew about her problems before.

What would you do? What would your daughter's mother do?

Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 05 Oct 06 - 06:10 PM

Ok

I will honour this line of pursuit for now in the faith that it leads somewhere concrete, though it is important for me to note that there is so much to be getting on with that isn't hypothetical, (and hypothetical scenarios sit so differently in different peoples imaginations), that it may turn out to be unproductive and I do not wish to waste my time by indulging a fantasy scenario to the exclusion of a serious matter, the consequences of which I and my daughter have to live with all day every day.
___________


1. I would instantly sackthe childminder and report them to the police.

2. I don't know what her mother would do, but I would hope that she would view the situation with as much concern as I would.

Where is this leading?

Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 05 Oct 06 - 06:17 PM

"You and ex are together very happily, she has always been a model mum and never gone near drugs"

These are circumstances that I have never had the luxury of knowing so it takes a big leap of imagination, however, one thing I can say is that if the circumstances you describe above were real, my day to day life, according to my current levels of expectation and appreciation, would be happy, fulfilling, concern free, optimistic and part of an ideal world.

This is a fantasy that I have long since been forced to accept is hurtful to hope for, and consequently presents serious problems to the soundness of the hypothesis.

Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: jacqui.c
Date: 05 Oct 06 - 06:19 PM

I think what Guest 5.51 is suggesting that mother/childminder should be interchangeable. If you would take that action against someone paid to take care of your daughter where is the problem with taking the action against the child's mother?

I can't say that I altogether agree with the premise - there is a difference in the degree of connection between the two. However, I do think that mother needs to be 'sacked' in her own way for the sake of the little girl.

Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 05 Oct 06 - 06:31 PM

You can't sack a mother.

You can't employ a new one.

Even if you could or wanted to eclipse the mother from the childs life completely, it is not a decision that a father has the right to make, legally or morally.

The child won't really miss their childminder or be traumatised by their sacking like they will their mother.

The child won't need sensitive and considerate understanding throughout their upbringing on the subject of their childminder as regards their questions, understanding and experience of their mother and their relationship with her and her fathers relationship with her and (as she gets older) her mothers behaviour and addiction etc.

The two scenario's are completely incomparable except in the respect that they are doing drugs on the one hand, and expected to give care on the other.

A childs welfare and emotional health run much deeper than that.

PS, who is this lovely sounding mother? I'd love to meet her. Her partner and kids are very lucky to have her.

Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Oct 06 - 07:07 PM

Ok Lox I will explain where I was going, jacqui was kind of there, but what I was thinking is that if mother and childminder should both display the same level of care to your daughter if they are in charge of her. then Mother and childminder should also both face the same consequences if they neglect their charge.

Of course as you point out on an emotional level, the 'type' of care from a mother will run deeper, but without the child being safe, there are no emotions to consider. Safety should always be the number one concern. Emotions when fuelled by the wrong type of care are dangerous.

I thought it might be hurtful for you to imagine but couldn't avoid that, sorry.

Sacking the mother sounds very emotively charged. I think suspension might be closer to what I was pondering. It is up to her now to prove she is up to the job of taking care of a child. That sounds cold doesn't it? But so does taking a child to a dealer. To anyone outside the situation that sounds a definite suspension offence. Some would say sackable, but the mother has the right to change, whether she decides to or not should be the basis of what you decide is in the child's interest in the future.

Knowing the mother as you do, is she likely to turn up at a pre arranged time for the supervised contact, if that can be arranged? If so, then you have some kind of solution. But how about if she forgets/oversleeps/does something else instead..she has spun you lame excuses before. Then you have the makings of a very disturbed daughter who is going to feel very let down by a parent. Your daughter won't care that her mother's unreliability is a side of her 'illness', she will suffer emotionally.

When I suggested earlier that some counsellors would suggest you 'pull the rug out' and inform her employers, you said you didn't want to act out of malice. And you didn't feel strong enough to stand up for the NHS.

There is another way of looking at it,which is more what I had in mind when I suggested it, you could be helping her, like I said her employers are in the business to offer psychiatric help. The NHS will have a staff counselling service I imagine, they would fight her corner and she probably wouldn't be sacked if she took visible steps to overcome her problems.

I know I also suggested the option of a contact centre and short term I still would run with that, but unless she also takes steps to beat the addiction, what you are actually doing is allowing a drug user who doesn't see the need to change, access to your daughter. And I can see the 'letting her down' scenario developing. Which could be more damaging long term, than the daughter not seeing her mother at all until she is clean.

It's tricky.

Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 05 Oct 06 - 08:16 PM

Yes.

Don't worry, no offence taken, I am more than willing to be challenged.

The problem with your being called GUEST is that I don't know if you are the same person who last adressed me using that moniker or somebody new, so I need to get to the point ASAP rather than risk being trolled.

Either way though, I am not afraid of an opposing point of view or a difficult question. I am honest and hopefully a little more than functionally literate too, so I will always give as full and fair an answer as I can.

The "letting her down" scenario is something that I predict will be the reality. There will be contact between them and that is a cold hard reality of life legally, no matter what I might try and do.

I will try and ensure that that contact is arranged in such a way that My daughter is as safe as possible from harmful influences.

It strikes me that contact being entirely denied would, apart from other reasons, be counterproductive anyway as it would not allow my daughter to develop her own view of her mother, and so she might be vulnerable to cock and bull stories from her down the line or manipulation as she begins to develop greater curiosity on the subject of our family breakdown and the reasons for it.

I have heard it said that children often develop resentment towards the parent who has sheltered them if they feel they have been unfairly denied a relationship with the absent parent. This is a factor that mother could in future manipulate to her own advantage at potential risk to daughters welfare.

"Daddy was wrong, there was nothing wrong with the way I behaved, it was just a bit of harmless this and that and the other and nothing to feel bad about. Here why don't you rebel and show just how off track he really was, cos it would sure perk me up and take away some of those feelings of guilt to know that you think it's all ok, and ultimately I put me not having to feel bad above my responsibilities to you."

With contact, she would (especially in later life) have the opportunity to see how the words and the actions don't match up and would be able to form a deeper, better informed, more realistic impression of her mom.

My function as an absolutely reliable and stable factor in my daughters life will hopefully be the main preventative remedy to that problem.

I must ensure that I foster a great relationship with her and do my best to listen to all her concerns properly so that 1. I don't become out of touch with her life, needs and concerns and 2. so that she always has somewhere to go and somebody to talk to. Feeling secure and confident within herself are the real key to her happiness.

I know that this is every parents ideal scenario and that many parents who think they are doing a great job in this respect can wake up one day to find that they have been living in cloud cuckoo land. Hopefully though, by making it a priority , having an open mind and being prepared to learn rather than believing that I know it all, I will be able to offer the kind of emotional support and provide the healthy grounding that my daughter is likely to need in future. It is an ongoing process and the groundwork began yesterday (and the day before that).

Oh yes, and - sorry to be pedantic but -

"As regards my responsibilities to the NHS, I think I will wait till my situation has simmered down before committing to anything, though I agree that I cannot ignore them in good conscience"

does not equate to:

"you didn't feel strong enough to stand up for the NHS."

My daughter provides me with inexhaustable endurance and determination by merely existing. The NHS question has more to do with legal practicalities and timing.

Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: GUEST,OWL
Date: 05 Oct 06 - 08:52 PM

That's ok, a bit of well meaning pedantry never hurt anyone.

But I probably didn't explain well enough - I don't think you actually have responsibilities to the NHS, well no more than any of us, and you have enough on your plate for it not to be taking up your energy. What I meant was by reporting her, getting a third party to confront her, possibly offer support etc you would be fulfilling your resposibilities to your daughter.

OK the knock on effect is that the NHS will maybe end up with an employee more suitable to her job than she is at present, but that isn't your concern at the moment, your daughter is.

I agree with you that contact shouldn't be entirely denied, but I do think it should be conditional, and those conditions start with the mother getting help. Otherwise she is accepting no responsibility at all for her actions, she will continue and your daughter will be let down and suffer because of it.

Parenthood comes with responsibilty and a full set of working ovaries doesn't qualify someone to the right to mother. I think as children get older they will, as you say, draw their own conclusions based on the actions of their errant parent, but your daughter is still so vulnerable and not equipped emotionally to draw those conclusions and deal with them.

I'm not you, but I wouldn't commence any form of contact until conditions are agreed to and acted upon. You said yourself she will let the child down eventually, why wait for the inevitable to happen, try and force her hand into that not being an option. If she doesn't agree to embark on a recovery programme she is telling you that she prefers speed over your daughter and she therefore should not be anywhere near her.

A solicitor will send letters detailing those conditions and follow up if they have been acted upon. You will have heaps of documentary evidence for your daughter for the future. She will not be in the dark at all about the reasons for the relationship breakdown. That is a plus, it won't boil down to 'she said he said.'

In an ideal world she will realise you mean business and get the help she needs.

I wasn't the guest who posted today, sorry for the confusion. The first time was about an hour ago and you replied to that. For this thread I shall be OWL, if that helps. Just because it is late, oh and my head spins around 360 degrees.

And now it's really late and I'm going to my nest.

Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Oct 06 - 08:55 PM

to whit

so am I

Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 05 Oct 06 - 08:55 PM

to who

that was me by the way

Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: wysiwyg
Date: 05 Oct 06 - 10:37 PM

Lox,

I think you know what you need to do, and how to go about it. I think this thread has had the potential to become (and now is becoming) a serious drain on your time and attention, sort of an addiction in itself. Bottom line is, ya gotta be the best parent you can be, period, isn't it?

In friendship,

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: GUEST,Mens perspective
Date: 05 Oct 06 - 11:30 PM

pardon me for well intentioned bluntness man,
but it seems to me you're making too much of a meal of stressing yourself out over future "what ifs" and "might she"'s.

Its obvious to everyone that the only priority is here and now putting as much safe distance between your kid
and her junkie mother,
for as far and long as necessary until the woman either starts to pull herself back together
and kicks the dealer outa her life;

[or he, and maybe she, gets arrested, or dies]

..and while you face up to the realities of being a good solid effective single parent
in the eyes of state welfare authorities,
who may always retain the option of stepping in
to releive you of responsibility for your kid,
if you ever come to their attention and concern as being a weak incapable father.

Its a much more simple crisis than the over-wraught
soap opera you seem to be writing yourself into for the next 16 years or more.

take care man.

and I so hope and wish this actually is a cynical fiction
to stir up mudcatters reactions,
and no guy is realy having to endure the dismal life you describe here.

Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: GUEST,Another guest
Date: 05 Oct 06 - 11:32 PM

Sorry Lox but I think you're jerking our chain. I'm begining to think that you've made this up just for the pity factor. I hope I'm wrong.But if you can't see what you need to do by now then you're part of the problem - not the solution.Please - prove me wrong.Stop thinking and talking and do something.

Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: Barry Finn
Date: 06 Oct 06 - 12:05 AM

Forge about this!

"I have heard it said that children often develop resentment towards the parent who has sheltered them if they feel they have been unfairly denied a relationship with the absent parent. This is a factor that mother could in future manipulate to her own advantage at potential risk to daughters welfare."

In mine & my sister's life we were told about our dad's problem (it was a sickness & that he did love us in his own way). He was kept out of our lives until it was clear that he was clean. Your daughter will be greatful for the protection. If her mother turns her life around in the future the mother will admit &/or explain what happened, if she doesn't get straight it will be very obvious.

Barry

Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 06 Oct 06 - 06:34 AM

GUEST another guest,

"Stop thinking and talking and do something"

You havent read the thread through.

Evryone else,

Everyone can benefit from a new perspective and to have their thoughts and feelings on important matters carefully and honestly scrutinized. I am no exception. It may be that somebody has an idea that nobody else would have considered. That is the advantage of these threads. There are potentially millions of different responses available.

I need a cross section of responses before I can claim to have been rigorous in my attempt to find the best approach.

I was looking for feedback and by this point in the thread I have had so much that is well considered and positive that I feel confident enough not to worry that somebody might see this as an exercise in fishing for pity.

WYSIWYG,

You're right that just about everything that can be said has been said, but it isn't counterproductive for people to add their tuppence if they fancy it.

I am in a different place now to where I was when it started, and for that I am grateful.

Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: Alice
Date: 06 Oct 06 - 11:46 AM

Lox,
I don't know if this phrase is used in UK family law, but in the US there is the concept of

"FAILURE TO PROTECT".

Custody of a child can be taken from a parent if they FAIL TO PROTECT that child. If you continue to let your daughter be in an unsafe situation, you can be found guilty of Failure to Protect and your child can be placed somewhere else.

Children are born into the environment that adults create around them. Adults have choices and the power to move away, change situations. Infants and children don't have that power. Take control of this situation and make that child safe from the drug user!

Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: Dave'sWife
Date: 06 Oct 06 - 12:10 PM

Lox - you don't seem to have heard me or read my post based on your response to others.

For heaven's sake.. I WAS your 'daughter' at one point in my life. I can tell you right now that I would love to have been able to foster some resentment towards a parent who protected me from the addict parent. Unfortunately, no such protection took place nor does it seem to be likely to take place for your daughter given your co-dependent hemming and hawing about what some future set of circumstances with her mohter will do to your duaghter.

Please hear me. You are spinning your wheels in this thread and using circular reasoning to justify not taking any action. Get some professional help for yourself or get to an Alanon meeting. You are currently part of the problem and can only be the solution if you choose to be. Your ex is not the enemy but she is the looming threat to your child's safety. You didn't put the drugs in her hand, you won't take them out of her hand but you CAN (with help from the court) mitigate the damage she has already done to your baby and will continue to do unless you take steps to stop it NOW.. not tomorrow, not after you sort out all the potential and theoretical implications.. NOW.

I'm done with this.

Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: Wesley S
Date: 06 Oct 06 - 01:10 PM

I have a friend who has a sign posted on his bathroom mirror. It says "You are looking at the solution to all of your problems"

Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: GUEST,thank God I'm not
Date: 06 Oct 06 - 01:38 PM

If I were a social worker faced with the circumstancial evidence
indicated here.
I'd be inclined to support initiatives to take the infant
into interim state care.

Removing and protecting her from all potential harm
while both biological mother and father
are investigated and evaluated for their mental and social fitness
to be trusted to act in the child's best long term interests
as a strong caring supportive guardian.

Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: Janie
Date: 06 Oct 06 - 02:29 PM

Lox,

1. Read Dave's Wife's posts. Read them over-and-over-again. Read Barry Finn's posts. Read them over-and-over again.

2. From what you have said about your ex, she would be questionable as a parent even without the drug issues. Sounds like she is totally lacking in insight, and if she is severely borderline, or severely narcissistic or severely antisocial, she probably couldn't make much use of any insight she may develop. Her prognosis is guarded at best, and probably very poor. I am a psychotherapist and work with many people like her, as well as with many people who were raised by people like her. You can not assume that your daughter is better off having some kind of relationship with her mother. In addition to legal counsel, I strongly recommend you speak frankly and at length with an experienced child therapist, and listen carefully to what they advise. There are many, MANY, boundary issues in evidence from your posts, and I don't care how healthy or normal you may be yourself, when dealing with someone like your ex, you need help and support. The chaos that circles around some one who is significantly borderline reflects the chaos within them, and becomes like a mist or fog that blurs reality for those in association with them.

3. You absolutely can not assume your daughter is not at risk of being molested when in her mother's 'care'.

Janie

P.S.   This truly is an aside, and not at all about your primary concern-your daughter- but I have to say I am very concerned about patients in her care also. Psychiatric patients are an extremely vulnerable population and those of us who provide services are in a position to cause significant harm that can reverberate throughout the patient's life and negatively impact all future mental health care.

J.

Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 06 Oct 06 - 04:44 PM

GUEST,thank God I'm not

You are entitled to any view you wish to hold, but in the interests of making a useful contribution to the thread, please refer to examples or noone will know how you have arrived at your position and I am sure I am not the only one who is curious to have it explained.


Daves wife.

You seem to fear that I was somehow compromising when I stated the following.

"There will be contact between them and that is a cold hard reality of life legally, no matter what I might try and do."

and I can see there might be some ambiguity in the next quote,

"Ultimataly supervised contact (or at the very least very reduced contact are the only answers to all problems stated above.)"

but would like to make clear that it is a reflection of the legal reality rather than of what I perceive to be the best option.

To reiterate, in this country there is no such thing as "no contact". It simply isn't a choice that I may legally make, and I do not intend to have myself arrested by interpol in Rio for kidnapping.

You said

"You are spinning your wheels in this thread and using circular reasoning to justify not taking any action"

If you read the thread again, you will see that I have taken lots of action and that I have done so succesfully against the odds.

The final hearing in all of this happens at the start of november, which is when I shall make my case for the best protected scenario that I and my daughter can hope for.

The in's and outs of the actual legal battle cannot be discussed here for obvious reasons.

Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: GUEST,thank God I'm not
Date: 06 Oct 06 - 04:54 PM

lox re-read what you say and the way in which you express it...

Frankly, there is an emerging subtext for concern
to objective impartial mudcatters monitoring your situation;
as you continue to describe it
and react to other contributors here.

The childs welfare and immediate safety matters far more than you do.

Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Oct 06 - 05:01 PM

GUEST,thank God I'm not

you said,

"while both biological mother and father
are investigated and evaluated for their mental and social fitness
to be trusted to act in the child's best long term interests
as a strong caring supportive guardian."

if you had read the thread up till that point you would have read my earlier post saying,

"And for the record, as part of the proceedings, a court appointed child welfare officer investigates the matter by interviewing both parents and checking out the childs home environment etc, and produces a report.

The paragraph about me is about 4 lines long and states quite simply that there are "no concerns about me whatsoever" as a parent, while there is on the other hand extensive commentary on the mothers use of drugs, psychological issues and ability to prioritize in the interests of her child."

Social workers do not make decisions about peoples lives based on "circumstancial evidence".

Everyone else;

Is this what a troll looks like?

Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 06 Oct 06 - 05:04 PM

GUEST,thank God I'm not

You appear to be avoiding substantiating your concerns. Why is that?

Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: Tootler
Date: 06 Oct 06 - 06:35 PM

My sister's daughter feels her father let her down. My sister never stopped my niece seeing her father, but she chose not to. He had broken too many promises

He died age 47 of alcohol induced liver failure.

Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 06 Oct 06 - 06:42 PM

Tootler

I believe you may be speaking my daughters future.

How has this impacted on your niece?

How have you gone about trying to minimize the injury?

Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: GUEST,sciencegeek
Date: 10 Oct 14 - 09:00 AM

as I was trying to say when it suddenly posted in the middle of typing... I don't know how these spam posts get onto a thread...

but I find myself concerned that above situation had a positive resolution...

addiction has a terrible cost... on the addict, their friends and family and on society overall.

that said, I have seen no social value to prohibition... be it of alcohol or drugs... instead it has taught organized crime where the big money is...

so legalize it and put bureaucratic strings on it as only goverment can and regulate the crap out of it.

take the bloody money out of the game and see how quickly it becomes less of a problem. use the money saved from enforcemtnt and put it into treatment and protective services. The money needed to incarcerate a single prisoner is money better spent on prevention and treatment. IMO

Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: maeve
Date: 23 Oct 14 - 08:44 AM

I share your concern for the OP and his family's well-being and privacy, sciencegeek, and I believe it is time to close this thread, which has become a spam target. Would a moderator please take a look and see what you think? Thank you.

Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 31 Oct 14 - 03:53 PM

lox: "The best way to describe my life until my ex moved out is that it was like the 3 of us were in a car with my ex driving, only she was blindfolded and burning down the road at 150 MPH whilst chugging at a bottle of whiskey."

Sounds like the mental state of some of our local wannabe political activists, for what was SOLD to them as some sort of 'liberal' agenda.
The same could be said for the 'right wingers' or 'left wingers'....reckless abandon towards truth and common sense!!

GfS

P.S. 'Right wing' and 'left wing' are on the same bird!

Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: Janie
Date: 01 Nov 14 - 04:54 PM

Ignoring the spam post that was last, but addressing you, GfS.    Lox is apparently long gone, but even so, this thread is not about politics or political agendas. Be out in left or right field as far as you like, but if that is all you have to say on a thread such as this, take your narcissism and perhaps mildly psychotic thought processes elsewhere.

Lox, if you still lurk, hope all is well, or at least manageable for you and your daughter, and even for your ex.

Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: maeve
Date: 01 Nov 14 - 05:05 PM

Thank you, Janie.

As I said earlier, "...I believe it is time to close this thread, which has become a spam target. Would a moderator please take a look and see what you think? Thank you. "

Lox and family, hoping you found the assistance and peace you sought.