What happened to Country Music?

Subject: What happened to Country Music?
From: The Shambles
Date: 07 Oct 06 - 07:02 AM

When and why did the real country music in what is now called Country Music start getting left behind?

Subject: RE: What happened to Country Music?
From: GUEST,obie
Date: 07 Oct 06 - 07:17 AM

I suppose that depends on your perspective, but for me there was a major downturn in the middle 1970's. I suppose the earlier introduction of "the Nashville sound" a decade earlier started the trend, but there was a lot of good stuff still turned out and the older stars still had some control of their recording. After that the recording industry and the radio stations combined to try and control what the public should hear, rather than responding to what they wanted to hear. That left stars like Cash and Jones outside the box and they got a lot less airtime. This airtime was then filled with the industry created new stars as the older music was squeezed out.

Subject: RE: What happened to Country Music?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Oct 06 - 07:25 AM

Isn't the truth actually that there's still just as much good music being played out there, but probably a lot more crap in the foreground that gets in the way?

Subject: RE: What happened to Country Music?
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 07 Oct 06 - 07:30 AM

As obie says, it is - to a large degree - a matter of perspective. In 1930, The Carter Family may have been "real" country; in the 40, Ernest Tubbs; by 1950, it would have been Hank Williams, and 10 years later Don Gibson - or maybe Jim Reeves ( two very different artists); in 1970, it could be Waylon Jennings BUT, somewhere, I believe there has to be some link to the past in all, so-called, country music; interestingly, my all-time favourite country music artist is an singer/som#ng-writer who emerged in the 1980s:Randy Travis. He has a fabulous voice; has written/co-written some classic songs, and has recorded a wide range of music within the country music genre.

Subject: RE: What happened to Country Music?
From: NormanD
Date: 07 Oct 06 - 07:50 AM

By my reckoning, country music changed into country-pop music from the mid/late 1950s. The producers and studios took over, making lotsa money for the major record labels which had their own country "rosters".

From the late 1940s a lot of country (I mean real country) songs became massive pop hits when covered by non-country singers - such as Tony Bennett's international hit with Hank Williams' "Cold, Cold Heart".

Some record producers developed a particular studio sound that gave commercial success, so they were extensively copied: Owen Bradley, Billy Sherril, for example. Their sounds were really syrupy and sickly (to my ears) - female choruses, soaring strings, the mandatory steel guitar....

Country music became big business, with writers pitching songs to producers for their labels' singers, rather than singers writing for themselves, and singing them the way they'd want to.

So, in conclusion, it's all been about money. Some country singers really shone through, in spite of all this, although invariably they became a product of their record label, being told what to sing and what could be released. Willie Nelson was one of the first to break this mould (and mold). There's a lot of REAL country still around today. All of today's "hat" acts are just the Anti-Hank.

Norman D

Subject: RE: What happened to Country Music?
From: paddymac
Date: 07 Oct 06 - 10:13 AM

Obie's right. It got hijacked by Nashville. But, Kevin is also correct. There's lots of the old stuff, and old style new stuff, still out there, but you're not likely to hear it on the media controlled outlets. I fear that what that really means is that lots of it will die as the local performers pass on. It is a vibrant folk tradition that needs top be recorded and documented. That kind of work might come to have the same stature as the "Child Ballad" collection has today in another few centuries.

Subject: RE: What happened to Country Music?
From: GUEST,Scoville at Dad's
Date: 07 Oct 06 - 10:25 AM

It moved to Austin and went back to small venues.

Subject: RE: What happened to Country Music?
From: GUEST,obie
Date: 07 Oct 06 - 11:14 AM

I think that Larry Cordle's song "Murder On Music Row" tells the story rather well. I find it both ironic and hopefull that modern stars like Allan Jackson and George Strait had the guts to sing it in duet at the CMA's. Prehaps all is not yet lost!

Subject: RE: What happened to Country Music?
From: GUEST,obie
Date: 07 Oct 06 - 11:24 AM

An earlier related thread:

thread.cfm?threadid=58487#926182

Subject: RE: What happened to Country Music?
From: Bill D
Date: 07 Oct 06 - 11:56 AM

like the word 'folk', the word 'country' got hijacked by those who found it a handy term to cover anything they wanted to do. Now the Nashville music managers are pandering to a very different audience, and using glitz, 'themes' and merchandising to promote stuff.

You gotta look in corners...

Subject: RE: What happened to Country Music?
From: freightdawg
Date: 07 Oct 06 - 12:45 PM

One problem is that "country" is being defined by a bunch of stuffed shirts sitting behind desks and not the talent on the stage. I agree with Tunesmith 100%. Randy Travis is truly one of the very, very few original artists recording today, and unfortunately, he does not record near enough. All it takes to be mass marketed now is a t-shirt with the sleeves ripped off, some bluejeans with a lot of holes in them, and a grimy hat worn by someone who wouldn't know which side of a horse to put the saddle on.

More than anything, country artists of yore were unique individuals with unique styles - Johnny Cash, Merle Haggard, Charlie Pride, Don Gibson - and the ladies - Loretta Lynn, Patsy Cline, et. al.

Now, its all about sameness - same sound, same dress, same lyrics.

How about an individual somewhere?

Freightdawg

Subject: RE: What happened to Country Music?
From: the one
Date: 07 Oct 06 - 02:49 PM

well just been to indiestore.com on front page they recommend pip &merry quote'As we type it's late at night and our attention is drifting. We are much more interested in staring out the window at the rain and orange glow of street lights and listening to 'Evermore' over and over again.Powerfully lovely, proper country music'.

Subject: RE: What happened to Country Music?
From: pdq
Date: 07 Oct 06 - 03:06 PM

"How about an individual somewhere?"

How about Mike Cross, Joe Ely, Robert Earl Keen, Jr., or Guy Clark? It's more a matter that these folks are not promoted as much as Tim McGraw and Martina McBride, because the latter have proven they can "ship tonnage". Nothing to do with origionality or quality, really.

Subject: RE: What happened to Country Music?
From: GUEST,taxijohn
Date: 07 Oct 06 - 03:07 PM

Like several other posters have said, its still out there. What is promoted by the big us labels & comercial radio is very comercial country/pop, but there are artists out there doing their own thing, but the term country covers a huge band of music & it largely depends on personal taste. For me the big names include Steve Earle, Emmylou Harris, Billy Joe Shaver, Lucinda Williams, Guy Clark, Hank Williams 111, But like i say its personal taste, but it is out there if you look. Happy hunting.

Subject: RE: What happened to Country Music?
From: Peace
Date: 07 Oct 06 - 04:29 PM

Some of the new stuff is better than some of the old stuff. Just the way it is.

Subject: RE: What happened to Country Music?
From: The Shambles
Date: 07 Oct 06 - 04:40 PM

I suppose what I mean is when why has the wonderful (folk/country) music that is now mostly called Old Time been left out of the category of Country Music?

For it is not that such music is no longer being made.

Subject: RE: What happened to Country Music?
From: Peace
Date: 07 Oct 06 - 04:45 PM

Ah. I would guess it's about cash. We see the Grand Old Opry drag out the odd old timer to do some tunes, more like they're curiousities than real musicians/writers. Sad. I'd guess the money's in electric stuff and people want to make money. Sure doesn't have much to do with music anymore. Or maybe it's just that times have changed.

Subject: RE: What happened to Country Music?
From: Bill D
Date: 07 Oct 06 - 05:34 PM

well,"Old Timey" music took pains from its early days to NOT be lumped in with "country"...they are sort of cousins - but 2nd cousins - whereas Country is 1st cousins with Bluegrass.

Old Timey, by virtue of taking a clearly different name, managed to at least maintain an identity, if not a huge following.

Subject: RE: What happened to Country Music?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 07 Oct 06 - 06:13 PM

As was pointed out earlier "Murder On Music Row" speaks to this--"while drums and rock'n roll guitars are mixed up in your face."

"Country", on US radio, at any rate, is now 70's rock under another name.

Some of it is still good--at least the part that shows a sense of humor "What Part of No Don't You Understand?", "I'm Living Up To Her Low Expectations" etc.

Even Toby Keith shows an amazingly self-deprecating sense of humor--in "I Ain't As Good As I Once Was, But I'm As Good Once As I Ever Was"--which is a great song, because on top of everything else, this title really means nothing. The video is even better--yes, "country music" videos are BIG business. In the video, among other things, he tells 2 girls "If you're up for a rodeo, I'll put a big Texas smile on your face"--then turns to the camera, and pops a Viagra.

There are a lot of songs sung aggressively by women--like " Redneck Woman"--that I like.

As long as you take it on its own terms, parts of it are fine--but, as in any kind of music--there's a lot of dross---and the music sure really ain't country.

And the sappy stuff--and there's an awful lot of it--has no value at all---but fortunately, there are lots of musical choices these days--particularly if you have broad taste..

Subject: RE: What happened to Country Music?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 08 Oct 06 - 11:25 AM

Hell, we know both kinds here, Country AND Western!

LTS

Subject: RE: What happened to Country Music?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 08 Oct 06 - 11:28 AM

Just another old fart, pissing and moaning about how things are no longer like they were in the Olden Days....

Sad....

There's tons of damn good music out here....

Subject: RE: What happened to Country Music?
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 08 Oct 06 - 11:41 AM

Clinton: I agree that there is a lot of talented people active in the Country music scene - and Nashville has lots! But, there is another side; the side of the industry that is only interested in artists if they are under 40, and with the correct image. However, the internet is the perfect place to seek out the talent that wasn't of interest to the major recording companies. I'm a big fan of CdBaby which is a great place to find artists that you won't find in your local record shop.

Subject: RE: What happened to Country Music?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 08 Oct 06 - 11:45 AM

It's not like 'popular' is a new concept....

Subject: RE: What happened to Country Music?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 08 Oct 06 - 11:46 AM

I was listening to some proper Country music just yesterday....


West Country that is.. Good old Adge Cutler.

LTS

Subject: RE: What happened to Country Music?
From: GUEST,Arkie
Date: 08 Oct 06 - 06:58 PM

Country music is still there.   It just can't be heard on the radio.   I have not heard Josh Turner's latest CD but hopefully it will be in the same vein as the first.   Also Elizabeth Cook and Heather Myles have recorded some first rate country stuff on the order of Snow & Jones, etc.   Down under Kasey Chambers has some great recordings.   Did not care that much for her latest though.

Subject: RE: What happened to Country Music?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 08 Oct 06 - 09:21 PM

"What happened to Country Music?"

Like Jeb, it packed up and moved to the City...

Subject: RE: What happened to Country Music?
From: GUEST,mick
Date: 08 Oct 06 - 09:24 PM

Bob Dylan's Nashville Skyline killed it.

Subject: RE: What happened to Country Music?
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Oct 06 - 09:27 PM

Bullshit. Country was dead long before that album came out.

Subject: RE: What happened to Country Music?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 09 Oct 06 - 06:43 AM

Well I don't think its as good as it used to be.

I like Joe Ely and Guy Clark well enough, but........they are the stars rather their songs.

When I was a kid I used rush home at dinner time to hear Parade of the Pops and hear English artists like Craig Douglas sing Oh Lonesome Me, the Lorne Green Trio doing El Paso, and anybody who was free doing the Everly's material. And even they couldn't damage it. the writing was THAT good.

I know I knew Oh Lonesome Me from the first time I heard it. I've heard the Dixie Chicks and Garth Brooks a million times and none of their songs have registered. They just aren't as good.

Subject: RE: What happened to Country Music?
From: BanjoRay
Date: 09 Oct 06 - 08:31 AM

You're right, Shambles. Old Time (not "old timey" for god's sake) music doesn't register with the Nashville Mafia as country music. It is however alive and well in the USA with many excellent musicians and superb festivals. It is also alive and well in the UK - see the Foaotmad website
We currently have around 400 members (most of whom are musicians or dancers), several festivals and a magazine.
Cheers
Ray (Foaotmad chairman)

Subject: RE: What happened to Country Music?
From: kendall
Date: 09 Oct 06 - 08:37 AM

Seems to me that it took a turn for the worst when Ernest Tubb introduced the electric guitar back in the 40's.

Subject: RE: What happened to Country Music?
From: Fortunato
Date: 09 Oct 06 - 09:31 AM

(editorial) It's Roger Miller's fault.

In 1968 Roger Miller murdered Commercia Radio Country (and Western Music). The smoking gun was "Little Green Apples". This insipid little ditty surgically removed the red clay, honkey-tonk, barstools, cheatin', mama, trains, prison, rednecks and mountain music from country music.

It replaced it with Doctor Seuss, Disneyland, Mother Goose, nursery rhymes, make-believe and puppy dogs.

Of course you could also make a case that the endless, redundant cheatin' songs of the 60's and the tragically overdone 'country shuffle' weakened country music enough to be killed off by 'sensitive song writer' crap.

Ahem. I believe that settles the question.

Subject: RE: What happened to Country Music?
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 09 Oct 06 - 10:15 AM

Some genius said it:

Country music: Rock and Roll with a ten-gallon hat.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: What happened to Country Music?
From: Tweed
Date: 09 Oct 06 - 10:20 AM

Country Music is here Shambles. Scroll down and click the "listen here" icon:

KBON Radio, in Eunice, Louisiana

Subject: RE: What happened to Country Music?
From: Scoville
Date: 09 Oct 06 - 10:33 AM

Steve Earle, Emmylou Harris, Billy Joe Shaver, Lucinda Williams, Guy Clark, Hank III

Add Wayne Hancock. He's deliberately retro in the vein of the Maddox Brothers. He also works with killer musicians.





Couldn't the "what happened to . . . ?" argument be made about almost any genre of music these days, just because commercial interests pretty much assure that only the most marketable stuff gets played on the radio? Does anyone know if the same complaints are made about "real" rock, gospel, jazz, whatever? I would be surprised if that wasn't the case.

Subject: RE: What happened to Country Music?
From: Scoville
Date: 09 Oct 06 - 10:39 AM

Lone Star Music

Subject: RE: What happened to Country Music?
From: Scoville
Date: 09 Oct 06 - 10:45 AM

97.1 FM out of Cleveland, Texas, claims to be mostly 1960's-1980's and plays too much Ronnie Millsap for my taste, but will occasionally slip in some Hank I, Lefty Frizzell, Ernest Tubb, Kitty Wells, etc., and plays Randy Travis, Loretta Lynn, and Tanya Tucker (sorry, whatever you think of her songs, you have to admit that nobody else has Tanya Tucker's voice) on a regular basis. It's not fantastic, but it's a lot better than most commercial country stations.

Subject: RE: What happened to Country Music?
From: tenn_jim
Date: 09 Oct 06 - 11:35 AM

Everyone has different tastes in music. Like my grandpappy said, if everyone had the same taste as me, they'd be married to my wife.

Country music is alive...maybe not well but alive. You can still find almost any music style if you know where to look. For old time appalachian music I suggest you visit Virginia and West Virginia. Places like the Old Fiddler's convention in Galax VA still features music like the Carter Family introduced back at the Bristol Sessions. There are people paying their dues at clubs and joints every night in and around Nashville. They do decent covers of the respected artists of yesteryear.

Obviously people like the new Country or else you wouldn't have concerts selling out in almost every city on the tour. Radio Stations get their revenues from advertisers. Advertisers place their ads based on listeners so if the "new country" isn't being listened to, the station will change their format.

Just my opinion.

Subject: RE: What happened to Country Music?
From: Midchuck
Date: 09 Oct 06 - 11:53 AM

The way I've read it, around 1985, the record industry computerized their system of determining what records were selling best. When the new system got on line, it turned out that, at that time, Garth Vader, I mean Brooks, was the best selling artist of any genre.

So of course, all the big money boys descended on Country, with the demand that everybody (well, the guys, anyway) all had to look and sound just like Garth.

And that was when it became homogenized.

I don't know if it's true, but it was about that time that commercial Country ceased being at all interesting to me.

Peter

Subject: RE: What happened to Country Music?
From: The Shambles
Date: 09 Oct 06 - 12:21 PM

http://www.oldtimemusicradio.com/Welcome.html

Old Time Music Radio

Hi friends and neighbors. Come on in, sit down, and relax. Old Time Music Radio brings you the best in Old Time Music from pioneers of Old Time Music like Uncle Dave Macon and Charlie Poole to contemporary Old Time Music groups like The Foghorn String Band, The Crooked Jades, and Uncle Earl

This internet radio station is a real treat.

Subject: RE: What happened to Country Music?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 09 Oct 06 - 12:52 PM

Then there's Country and Eastern

Subject: RE: What happened to Country Music?
From: GUEST,282RA
Date: 09 Oct 06 - 01:01 PM

For me, country was Bob Wills. He da man. But I like Hank (NOT II or III), Jimmie and bluegrass. Then there's rockabilly which IS country.

I hate the attempted mix of rap and country. Rap doesn't go good with anything much less country.

With exceptions as Asleep At The Wheel, Junior Brown, Ricky Skaggs and Willie, there's no good country anymore. It's all pop crap with a fiddle or a steel accompanying the vocal and--viola!--country music, everybody. Tom Waits did far better country stuff than artists that were labeled as strictly country.

But ultimately, country for me is western swing. I don't care about much else.

The other thing I loathe about country music is the audience. Not a more brain-dead group of slugs in existence outside the Bush administration (whose strongest support comes from "country music lovers" not surprisingly).

Subject: RE: What happened to Country Music?
From: Scoville
Date: 09 Oct 06 - 01:51 PM

Okay, here it is: my blogspot with accompanying music links.

The genres vary a little but most of them are country-related; some blues, some rockabilly, one Western swing, some of this neo-old-time stuff, Cajun, old-time, etc.

I'm starting to think that Cajun (not zydeco) is the last bastion of genuine country. Most of the bands that come to mind when I'm looking for my preferred combination of musical elements, lyric content, and "real McCoy-ness", end up being Cajun bands. Not surprising, I guess, considering there are a lot of parallels and cross-pollination.

Subject: RE: What happened to Country Music?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 09 Oct 06 - 03:46 PM

My own earliest recollections from the 1940s is that there were two kinds of music: Cowboy and Hillbilly. Mostly, Cowboy music was Gene Autry and the Sons of the Pioneers, and a few similar, and was in the movies. Hillbilly was 'bout anything else that was on the radio.

Cowboy songs were all about horses, cows, sagebrush, sunsets, and being happy about lonesome.

Hillbilly songs were mostly about bein' drunk, chasin' women, and being broke, and bein' sad about bein' lonesome.

Toward the late part of the 40s, much of the hillbilly got called honky-tonk music, to separate it from the actual "hill country" music which later came to be called "Old-Time" and/or to some extent "¹Folk."

Most of the lineage of artists people up above in this thread have called old-time Country got started at about the time that "hillbilly" became "honkytonk" in the minds of people in my part of the country.

The term "Western" came onto the scene at about the same time also, although for at least a time about the only one we knew of using the term was perhaps Bob Wills with his "Western Swing" band. Some of the recording companies sort of pushed the "Western" name, but it mostly splintered into a bunch of sub-types and was never used much - in my region at least.

Sometime in the early to mid 50s the "¹Folk" stuff started to appear, but so far as most people could tell the main defining characteristic was it meant you had a guitar and could sing a little, but you couldn't afford a backup band. Instead of feeling bad about being lonesome, you just felt bad about everything.

Of course, as Mike Cross says, "that's where all that incest and inbreedin' comes from" so there has always been a lot of trading and mixing between styles and categories, and putting "labels" on them is mostly for the convenience of the record shops 'cause they ain't got enough bins to keep them all separate.

¹ Neither of these usages of "Folk" has anything to do with the current concept(?) of "tradional and/or historically significant music reflecting the culture of an ancestral lineage."

Although it perhaps started with the Grand Ol' Opry, there has been a transition from music that most anyone could sing to "big entertainment" that's meant for numbnut listeners. Bluegrass came on the scene as a response to the public demand for "superstar performers" who were trained athletes we could hire to do things that you should be warned: "don't try to do this at home." A few do try, and some are injured - but it's the nature of the few lunatics to want to test themselves.

I don't know when the whole music busines turned to shit; but one can tell it's happened from the complete absence of an input jack (mic or audio) on the great majority of "music players" being sold today. In fact, for at least the last ten years or so, it's not assured that your new computer will have an input jack of any kind, although it probably will be called "multimedia" something or other.

So shut up and buy the DVD. (CDs are dead, since we demand ACTION now.)

John

Subject: RE: What happened to Country Music?
From: Mudjack
Date: 10 Oct 06 - 01:54 PM

If it isn't formulated for commercial success then the "country music industry" won't produce it. There is a ton of good music out there, you just have to go look for it and usually find it in community radio programmins that don't have to sell used cars and mouthwash every nine minutes of air time. Of course "good" music is subject to personal taste.
(that's my 2 cents worth)
Mudjack

Subject: RE: What happened to Country Music?
From: mustradclub
Date: 11 Oct 06 - 05:55 AM

Outside of the mainstream there is some great talent on the country music scene. Guy Clark seems incapable of making anything other than superb recordings. Saw him in concert in London recently he was brilliant. Iris Dement Gillian Welch and Mary Gauthier are a trio of terrific women singer songwriters,all of whose recordings are well worth a listen.

From a younger generation Uncle Tupelo, Lambchop, and Hank Williams 111 (the great mans grandson)are all making some good music.


Ken Hall

Subject: RE: What happened to Country Music?
From: M.Ted
Date: 11 Oct 06 - 11:40 AM

There something called "Low-Fi" in rock music, which is a move away from the studio sounds, and back to the sound of what a band sounds like when you just record what they play--it happens mostly on "indie" labels. It is centered around college radio, and it's getting to be a big thing.   

There certainly are a lot of folks out there doing this kind of thing with country music, but there isn't a real network for "alternative country music" that correspond to college radio. I think there's potential for it, though, with internet and satellite radio--the audience for it is certainly there--nobodies figured out how to reach it--

Subject: RE: What happened to Country Music?
From: GUEST,Martin Gibson
Date: 12 Oct 06 - 10:44 AM

Hi everyone. It's really me.

I used to talk about this subject a lot as I have listened to country music and performed it for a long time.

Marty Stuart, Lyle Lovett, Rice, Rice, Hillman, and Pedersen, many others play real country music in the modern world.

WSM-AM 650 is still very much alive and well, and playing real country music all of the time out of Nashville, virtually spitting in the face of today's Music Row.

Subject: RE: What happened to Country Music?
From: M.Ted
Date: 12 Oct 06 - 02:16 PM

He's Baaack.

Subject: RE: What happened to Country Music?
From: GUEST,Cluin
Date: 12 Oct 06 - 05:37 PM

And he's riiiiight.