Uilleann pipe and tin whistle question

Subject: Uilleann pipe and tin whistle question
From: Wesley S
Date: 11 Oct 06 - 01:19 PM

I know nothing about these instruments other than you blow into them. However I have noticed that lots of folks tend to play both instruments. So I'm curious if the fingerings are the same for both - or if the folks who play the pipes just happen to like to play the tin whistle too.

Subject: RE: Uilleann pipe and tin whistle question
From: greg stephens
Date: 11 Oct 06 - 01:30 PM

Similar, rather than exactly the same.

Subject: RE: Uilleann pipe and tin whistle question
From: Effsee
Date: 11 Oct 06 - 01:39 PM

Just where exactly do you blow into Uilleann pipes?

Subject: RE: Uilleann pipe and tin whistle question
From: jeffp
Date: 11 Oct 06 - 01:44 PM

Through your armpit.

Subject: RE: Uilleann pipe and tin whistle question
From: Kaleea
Date: 11 Oct 06 - 01:47 PM

Flap away!

Subject: RE: Uilleann pipe and tin whistle question
From: Wesley S
Date: 11 Oct 06 - 01:51 PM

Come to think of it you're right. You don't blow into Uilleann pipes. I told you I didn't know anything about these instruments.

Subject: RE: Uilleann pipe and tin whistle question
From: Big Mick
Date: 11 Oct 06 - 02:06 PM

Uilleann pipes are a bellows blown pipe. They are unique in the world of bagpipes, in that they play 2 full octaves with accidentals. They consist, in their full version, of a chanter that may or may not be keyed, a bag, a bellows, 3 drones, and 3 regulators. The regulators consist of 3 rows of keys which are played with the wrist, or hand, or fingers, which provide chordal accompaniment. They can also be played independent of the chanter. There are various configurations beginning with a practice set, which consists of a bag, bellows and chanter, all the way up to the full set. A half set consists of the practice set, plus three drones.

Fingering for the Uilleann pipes is only similar to the whistle. Whistles have 6 holes. UP's have 7 on the front, 1 on the back which is the octave to the bell note, and the bottom of the chanter is considered another hole, which when sounded with all the other holes covered gives the bell note. Concert pitch in UP's is considered to be D, but they are built in a variety of keys. IMO, the only worth in practicing on the whistle first is to get the student used to the fingering concept, as well as the concept of jumping the octave by greater wind. The UP's are the same in that regard. I would say, and some will disagree with me, that the real value in learning whistle first is to determine if one has the stick-to-it attitude required to learn the pipes.

The UP's require a real desire to learn to play them. One must understand the reeds, one must practice endlessly to learn bellows technique, proper pressure on the bag, fingering, as well as ornaments. I have described my passion for them as "hating the fact that I love this instrument".

Mick

Subject: RE: Uilleann pipe and tin whistle question
From: Rasener
Date: 11 Oct 06 - 02:17 PM

Mike Ryan from Cara plays both, in fact he plays many instruments. He has a passion for uilleann pipes and is a very good player.

Cara

Subject: RE: Uilleann pipe and tin whistle question
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 11 Oct 06 - 02:35 PM

The original question was, are the fingerings the same.

Apparently the fingerings for uillean pipes and the D whistle are about the same.

So are fingerings for the "Irish" flute in D and the C recorders (soprano and tenor.) There are minor variations, but to learn one of them is to be well underway with all of them - at least as far as fingerings go.

Tone production might be a different story.

Subject: RE: Uilleann pipe and tin whistle question
From: Big Mick
Date: 11 Oct 06 - 03:43 PM

Yes, leeneia, that was the original question, but later it was clear folks didn't know the difference.

What does "about the same" mean? Things are either the same, or they are not. There are some similarities, but they are not the same. The same skill sets are used, but there are notable differences in fingerings, as well as in the style (legato/staccato), etc.

Do you play Uilleann pipes?

Mick

Subject: RE: Uilleann pipe and tin whistle question
From: InOBU
Date: 11 Oct 06 - 03:48 PM

also there are two more holes in the Uilleann pipes, not counting the keys... thumb and double hole for the low d... cheers lor

Subject: RE: Uilleann pipe and tin whistle question
From: Big Mick
Date: 11 Oct 06 - 04:06 PM

Yeah, Lor, I pointed that all out several posts back. How are the Gallaghers playing these days? I am trying to get Mark Hillman to build me some drones for my set.

Things are well for you, I trust?

Mick

Subject: RE: Uilleann pipe and tin whistle question
From: Gedpipes
Date: 12 Oct 06 - 12:26 PM

What is your set Mick?

Subject: RE: Uilleann pipe and tin whistle question
From: Big Mick
Date: 12 Oct 06 - 03:14 PM

I have three chanters. One is an anonymous greenheart chanter (as Benedict Koehler calls it), another is a blackwood Hillman chanter, and the third is a Hamon chanter made out of bloodwood. The first two have been reeded by Benedict Koehler, the Hamon has his reed in it. Mark Hillman is building a set of drones for me to turn it into a half set. I sold a Sloan half set. I just didn't care for its sound. The chanter was tough to reed, and the drones lacked depth. In drones, I like to have a bit of guts to them. When I kick them in, I want to feel it. The Sloan set just kind of buzzed. I guess I could have tinkered with them, but I just didn't care for the set.

I really love the sound of the Hillman chanter with the reed that Benedict made me. It is just the right combination of sweetness and tone. But it is very touchy. Try to strangle it, or overpower it on the bag, and the local cats will love you.

The Seth Hamon chanter is a very nice piece of work. It is a bit harsher than the Hillman, but gets two octaves very nicely. This guy does nice work.

I am just now starting to mess with building reeds. I am sure this will be quite an adventure.

That'll fix you for asking a simple question. LOL.

What is your set?

Mick

Subject: RE: Uilleann pipe and tin whistle question
From: Bernard
Date: 12 Oct 06 - 08:20 PM

Nobody seems to have mentioned that 'Uillean Pipes' means 'Elbow Pipes'...

Not that it matters... what a glorious noise they make!

Subject: RE: Uilleann pipe and tin whistle question
From: Nickhere
Date: 12 Oct 06 - 08:49 PM

My cousin makes them. He told me that getting the reeds right is about the hardest part.

Subject: RE: Uilleann pipe and tin whistle question
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 12 Oct 06 - 09:05 PM

Yes, you can't get the wood, you know.

Subject: RE: Uilleann pipe and tin whistle question
From: Big Mick
Date: 12 Oct 06 - 09:30 PM

And your cousin is who? Is he a hobby builder (that's not a pejorative, I am a hobby builder, or trying to be) or does he build them for sale? He is right. Making reeds is an art in itself, and adjusting them during the year is another.

I would probably take a little issue. Getting the chanter right is pretty difficult. It is a conical bore, and one has to deal with shrinkage in the wood. Usually one cuts the billets, and rough bores them, and lets them sit for a year or more. Then some turning, a little more boring, and let them sit. Finish bore and polish. It is a demanding process. Never mind the various turns you put on them.

There are a lot of cool woods folks are using.

Mick

Subject: RE: Uilleann pipe and tin whistle question
From: Den
Date: 13 Oct 06 - 08:30 AM

Mick, do you know the piper Thomas Standeven by any chance?

Subject: RE: Uilleann pipe and tin whistle question
From: Big Mick
Date: 13 Oct 06 - 08:33 AM

Not personally, Den. But I believe he is on UILLEANNLISTSERV. I recognize the name, but not sure why. Is he from Scandinavia, by chance?

Mick

Subject: RE: Uilleann pipe and tin whistle question
From: Den
Date: 13 Oct 06 - 08:53 AM

Mick, he was born in Philadelphia. I knew him well when I lived out west but lost touch with him over the years. I just wondered if he was still with us. There is a blurb about him and the recordings he made with the fiddler John Vesey here.

Subject: RE: Uilleann pipe and tin whistle question
From: Big Mick
Date: 13 Oct 06 - 09:13 AM

Thanks for that link, Den. I have only been out here about 18 months, and I must say that I haven't really integrated into the musical community here yet. That was an interesting glimpse into it. I think I will do some digging on Mr. Standeven, and maybe in the process make some contacts. Thanks.

Mick

Subject: RE: Uilleann pipe and tin whistle question
From: DannyC
Date: 13 Oct 06 - 09:28 AM

I am sorry to convey the news that the piper Tom Standeven passed away a couple of years ago.

Just this past summer (in June, I believe) my cousin, the piper John Donnelly, organized and sponsored a Tionol in Tom's honor. I understand that the event was well-supported and served as a fitting tribute to the man. It would be no surprise to me if the Tionol turns into an annual event.

Subject: RE: Uilleann pipe and tin whistle question
From: InOBU
Date: 13 Oct 06 - 09:29 AM

Hi Mick... I ok, not playing much, the music scene in NY is rather meanspirited often... Haven't seen Seth in a while, should go get some reeds, getting lost in my camera mostly, drop by and see some photos... http://www.flickr.com/photos/lorcanotway/ Cheers lor

Subject: RE: Uilleann pipe and tin whistle question
From: Den
Date: 13 Oct 06 - 09:42 AM

Mick, Tom was an interesting man in many respects. He had a great knowledge of Irish traditional music and the pipes in particular (and I apologize to others here for the little bit of thread drift). He was a border gaurd in Blaine Washington when I first met him at the Ceoltis in Vancouver. I hired him to play at my wedding ceremony and he piped my wife and I out of the church. Tom and I remained friends for many years and I would regularly visit him and learn from him. I unfortunately did not have the required patience for the pipes which I regret. I did a painting of my Dad playing a set of Tom's pipes one time and he loved it so much that he asked if I would accept a concert flute in exchange for the painting. The flute as it turned out was much, much more valuable than the painting, but that was Tom. Last I heard he was living in Maryland. An interesting link here on Taylor pipes.

Subject: RE: Uilleann pipe and tin whistle question
From: Den
Date: 13 Oct 06 - 09:46 AM

DannyC, thank you for the update although it makes me very sad. I'm sorry to have lost contact with Thomas. He was a great friend and teacher and he will surely be missed. This is sad news.

Subject: RE: Uilleann pipe and tin whistle question
From: Big Mick
Date: 13 Oct 06 - 09:58 AM

DannyC and Den, your stories of Tom remind me of a piper in Michigan who passed, Mr. Al Purcell. He was universally respected, and helped me get started. I spoke with him just a few days before he passed away.

Lorcan, your pictures are spectacular. You have almost 1300 of them, in true InOBU fashion, and I went through about 25 pages. Loved them. They provide a documentary style look at NYC, and life on the streets. Keep up the good work.

Mick

Subject: RE: Uilleann pipe and tin whistle question
From: DannyC
Date: 13 Oct 06 - 10:37 AM

Yeah Mick - I was fortunate to have heard Al Purcell play in St. Louis before his own passing. My clearest memory of the performance was Purcell's relating the story of a worldwide moment of silence that had been observed when Dag Hammarskjöld was tragically killed in an airplane crash in the Congo.   

Purcell informed us that the world's radios went briefly into a silence that was eventually punctuated by the solitary sound of an Irish air on the Uillean pipes. (In his St. Louis performance, Purcell then played that haunting air for us.) I am sorry that I cannot recall the name of the tune at this time (shame on me).

Anyway, Al's story and piping made for a very poignant moment. When you cast Purcell's story into the context of its occurance - it certainly seems like a important moment for The Music at a time when - from a popularity perspective - The Music was in eclipse.

Subject: RE: Uilleann pipe and tin whistle question
From: Gedpipes
Date: 13 Oct 06 - 11:06 AM

Lorcan
Great set of photos old son
Cheers
Ged

Subject: RE: Uilleann pipe and tin whistle question
From: Big Mick
Date: 13 Oct 06 - 11:12 AM

Al called the airs "Irish Soul Music". He told me to leave the reels to the kids with fast fingers, and play the airs. He told me that reels and jigs are a matter of practice, but playing the airs requires heart and soul. I can well imagine that moment you described.

God be good to him.

Mick

Subject: RE: Uilleann pipe and tin whistle question
From: Big Mick
Date: 19 Oct 06 - 11:29 PM

For those interested here are some Uilleann piping video's I have posted to the new Youtube permathread.

All the best,

Mick