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BS: Is Black Country a language or a dialect

The Villan 17 Oct 06 - 02:28 AM
Barry Finn 17 Oct 06 - 02:38 AM
Big Al Whittle 17 Oct 06 - 02:57 AM
GUEST,WBA 0 17 Oct 06 - 03:29 AM
GUEST,Guest, who does not wish his name to be know 17 Oct 06 - 03:38 AM
The Shambles 17 Oct 06 - 04:20 AM
Stu 17 Oct 06 - 04:52 AM
Dave the Gnome 17 Oct 06 - 05:06 AM
The Villan 17 Oct 06 - 05:31 AM
GUEST,Jon 17 Oct 06 - 05:34 AM
The Villan 17 Oct 06 - 05:36 AM
GUEST,Jon 17 Oct 06 - 05:40 AM
Paul Burke 17 Oct 06 - 06:02 AM
Dave the Gnome 17 Oct 06 - 06:33 AM
The Villan 17 Oct 06 - 06:55 AM
GUEST,Jon 17 Oct 06 - 07:05 AM
Dave the Gnome 17 Oct 06 - 07:16 AM
Roger the Skiffler 17 Oct 06 - 09:34 AM
Big Al Whittle 17 Oct 06 - 10:19 AM
The Villan 17 Oct 06 - 11:57 AM
Paul Burke 17 Oct 06 - 12:20 PM
Gurney 17 Oct 06 - 02:50 PM
Dave the Gnome 17 Oct 06 - 03:32 PM
The Villan 17 Oct 06 - 03:44 PM
GUEST 17 Oct 06 - 06:38 PM
Chris Green 17 Oct 06 - 07:19 PM
Bobert 17 Oct 06 - 07:56 PM
Snuffy 17 Oct 06 - 08:36 PM
Gurney 18 Oct 06 - 03:28 AM
Paul Burke 18 Oct 06 - 03:46 AM
The Villan 18 Oct 06 - 04:11 AM
Black Diamond 18 Oct 06 - 04:27 AM
Paul Burke 18 Oct 06 - 05:15 AM
The Villan 18 Oct 06 - 05:42 AM
GUEST,Ian Pittaway 18 Oct 06 - 02:28 PM
Mr Red 18 Oct 06 - 02:33 PM
Black Diamond 18 Oct 06 - 04:50 PM
Big Al Whittle 19 Oct 06 - 04:34 AM
Paul Burke 19 Oct 06 - 04:48 AM
Desdemona 19 Oct 06 - 02:16 PM
Seamus Kennedy 20 Oct 06 - 12:29 AM
GUEST 20 Oct 06 - 09:01 AM
Gurney 20 Oct 06 - 04:54 PM
The Sandman 21 Oct 06 - 03:48 PM

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Subject: BS: Is Black Country a language or a dialect
From: The Villan
Date: 17 Oct 06 - 02:28 AM

Ee giv' 'im a right lampin.

Yow big lommock.

Making a noise like a gleed under a door.

Shift ya feet from up the 's 'ole

What do these experessions mean. Is it English ?


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Black Country a language or a dialect
From: Barry Finn
Date: 17 Oct 06 - 02:38 AM

I can't help ya Villan, I've never heard those sayings before & I grew up in a black community.    "Is it English?".   Oh, I grew up in the US.

Barry


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Black Country a language or a dialect
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 17 Oct 06 - 02:57 AM

It sounds very different from the homelife of our own dear Queen.


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Black Country a language or a dialect
From: GUEST,WBA 0
Date: 17 Oct 06 - 03:29 AM

right lampin- like Long Lampin.
lommock- Scots "as step I with my lommock to the isles".
gleed- being glasping and gruttonous.
the 's 'ole- the b'ottom of the 'sh 'hoe.


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Black Country a language or a dialect
From: GUEST,Guest, who does not wish his name to be know
Date: 17 Oct 06 - 03:38 AM

fear of retribution....
It's a travesty! A great mauling of our beautiful language. A fount of mangled diphthongs which sounds miserable even when expressing happiness. A hideous noise that has not improved after 7 years of living within earshot..

Apart from that, a dialect.


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Black Country a language or a dialect
From: The Shambles
Date: 17 Oct 06 - 04:20 AM

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blackcountry/uncovered/what_is.shtml


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Black Country a language or a dialect
From: Stu
Date: 17 Oct 06 - 04:52 AM

Bostin!


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Black Country a language or a dialect
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 17 Oct 06 - 05:06 AM

I think the best two I heard were

"av yo just cum down the om sex?"

(om sex being the big road between Carlisle and Birmingham)

and, in reference to some red mastic around a window,

"That's prettie puttie"

(Yes, tie as in the thing some men wear round their necks!)

Cheers

DtG


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Black Country a language or a dialect
From: The Villan
Date: 17 Oct 06 - 05:31 AM

The dialect of the Black Country area remains perhaps one of the last examples of early English still spoken today

Making a noise like a gleed under a door. = Someone singing badly

Up the wooden hills to bedfordshire. = Up the stairs to bed.

Shift ya feet from up the 's 'ole. = Move your feet away from the fire.

Ee giv' 'im a right lampin. = He gave him a thorough beating.


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Black Country a language or a dialect
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 17 Oct 06 - 05:34 AM

It's a dialect of Brummie isn't it?


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Black Country a language or a dialect
From: The Villan
Date: 17 Oct 06 - 05:36 AM

No it isn't. That is the problem, people confuse the Black Country dialect with Brumegem.


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Black Country a language or a dialect
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 17 Oct 06 - 05:40 AM

Sorry, Villain, I should have put a wink after it. I must admit I can't tell the difference between the accents, etc. but I have accidentally upset people by mistakenly thinking they were Brummies...


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Black Country a language or a dialect
From: Paul Burke
Date: 17 Oct 06 - 06:02 AM

A 'gleed' is a cinder, so a sound like a gleed under a door- think of a cinder scaping on a stone flag floor.


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Black Country a language or a dialect
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 17 Oct 06 - 06:33 AM

Up the wooden hill to Bedfordshire was common in Swinton as well, Villan. But considering a chunk of the area was known as 'Little Bilston' it is hardly surprising that there was some cross-cuture going on. The Staffordshire miners were brought to the Lancashire coal fields during a strike - Not enamouring themselves to the locals. My grandad used to say, as a partial insult if you looked out of the ordinary 'Thee fathurs a Staffordshur mon' (Fathur rhyming with gather rather than father!). Odd considering his Grandfather came from Sedgely! Mrs G and I found out recently that here ancestors came from Bilston as well - A couple of miles as the crow flies from Sedgely.

Cheers

DtG


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Black Country a language or a dialect
From: The Villan
Date: 17 Oct 06 - 06:55 AM

Interesting that, isn't Sedgley the centre of the black country DtG?

Used to go to the Woodman Folk Club in Kinswinford late 60's - not sure if that is classed as the black country.

Ask them if they went to the crooked house in Himley DtG pictures of crooked house and
crooked_house

It used to make me feel drunk without having anything. :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Black Country a language or a dialect
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 17 Oct 06 - 07:05 AM

Black Country words


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Black Country a language or a dialect
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 17 Oct 06 - 07:16 AM

It is a long while back, Villan so I don't think any surviving family members will have any recollection of great (times 2 or 3) Grandad talking about the area. I must pay a visit there myself though - Looks amazing. And it's 'Bonkses beer' as so I can ask for a pint of Bonkses moild:-)

I can't recollect the pub names in Sedgely and Bilston we did visit but the one in Sedgely was brilliant - Proper old fasioned beer house with excellent local mild and pork pies. I was going to ask if there were any Stanleys (Grandads surname) about but then realised that the barmans forname was Stanley (Stanloiy) - They would have thought I was taking the piss:-) Funny thing is the barman was Irish.

Cheers

DtG


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Black Country a language or a dialect
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 17 Oct 06 - 09:34 AM

not so much a dialect...more a way of life.

RtS


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Black Country a language or a dialect
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 17 Oct 06 - 10:19 AM

less a dialect, more of a disability - perhaps you can get one of those stickers for your car, Les.


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Black Country a language or a dialect
From: The Villan
Date: 17 Oct 06 - 11:57 AM

Cheeky sod Al :-)

I am a brummie not a black countryight. However I think its a smashing dialect and indeed the oldest English dialect.

However I am amazed that the Politically Correct Brigade haven't made them change the name yet.


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Black Country a language or a dialect
From: Paul Burke
Date: 17 Oct 06 - 12:20 PM

They'd have to change all those supermarket labels for Black Country Gateau.


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Black Country a language or a dialect
From: Gurney
Date: 17 Oct 06 - 02:50 PM

Ah doe no!


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Black Country a language or a dialect
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 17 Oct 06 - 03:32 PM

I thought Geordie was the oldest accent? I was once told that the further north you went the older the accent became. Is it not true then? Black Country is from around Shakespeares time I believe. Just imagine all those famous speeches eh?

Soft, wot loight from yonder winder broykes?

:D

Cheers

DtG


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Black Country a language or a dialect
From: The Villan
Date: 17 Oct 06 - 03:44 PM

No I have it on authority that the Black Country dialect is one of the oldest and may even be the oldest English dialect. :-)

alroight loik akid


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Black Country a language or a dialect
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Oct 06 - 06:38 PM

Jon, you've upset Black Country people by thinking they're Brummies?
It's the other way round aer kid!!!
And don't you forget it!


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Black Country a language or a dialect
From: Chris Green
Date: 17 Oct 06 - 07:19 PM

Dunno. I'm from Coventry. Well, SOMEONE has to be!


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Black Country a language or a dialect
From: Bobert
Date: 17 Oct 06 - 07:56 PM

I ain't even gonna get into this one... No sir, I been here and got my poor ol' boney hillbilly butt chewed up and spit out... No, ain't gonna' go here... But...

...I don't know where you folks come up with this so-called balck country talk but I reckon I growed up in the wrong country 'cause I spent lotta time wid black folks in the United Sates and black folks in the United States don't say none of them things...

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Black Country a language or a dialect
From: Snuffy
Date: 17 Oct 06 - 08:36 PM

Its the country that's black, Bobert, not the people.


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Black Country a language or a dialect
From: Gurney
Date: 18 Oct 06 - 03:28 AM

How on earth can you sort out which is the oldest accent in English? The whole language is only about 850 years old!

The most impenetrable accent I've heard is Arbroath. We used to have a Glaswegian to translate at union meetings. Black Country is pretty broad, though. Much on a par with Geordie, except in the treatment of primates.


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Black Country a language or a dialect
From: Paul Burke
Date: 18 Oct 06 - 03:46 AM

According to someomne's thology (might be my thology), the Saxon invasion started when King Vortigern invited Hengist and his wife (or horse) Horsa and a crowd of their mates over to Kent to head up the army, and then forgot to pay them. So Kentish ought to be the oldish Englest dialect.

They rebelled, ran up the Stars and Bars and invited their mates and neighbours, the Angles, Saxons and Jutes (or Hebrutes) to come along and help themselves by helping others. The rest is prehistory.

But as people certainly look older the further north you go, their dialects might be older too.


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Black Country a language or a dialect
From: The Villan
Date: 18 Oct 06 - 04:11 AM

LOL


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Black Country a language or a dialect
From: Black Diamond
Date: 18 Oct 06 - 04:27 AM

I grew up in Birmingham (right in the middle - cant get more Brummie than me) I married someone from Cradley Heath and worked in Dudley, both right in the middle of the Black Country.
It is called Black Country 'cos in the old days it was covered in smog from the factories and foundries, nothing to do with people's skin colour.
I was made to feel very much a "foreigner" and my husband had obviously let the family down by marrying someone from Birmingham!!!I had the micky taken out of my accent all the time while living there.
the one thing I remember is of asking a native for directions to somehere , and her telling me the place I needed was by the "tunnel". there is no tunnel in Dudley. eventually after some persistance we eventually worked out she meant the "Town Hall"
BD


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Black Country a language or a dialect
From: Paul Burke
Date: 18 Oct 06 - 05:15 AM

Naw tunnel in Dudderlye? What's this then?


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Black Country a language or a dialect
From: The Villan
Date: 18 Oct 06 - 05:42 AM

I was born in Great Barr Birmingham.

My cricket club in Birmigham used to play a team in the black country on a regular basis. Couldn't understand most of what they said, however their dialect amused us and we had a few comdedians in our team who would constantly attempt the black country lingo.
They used to have me in stitches, so much so, I missed a dolly catch one time, becuase I was in fits of laughter. needless to say, I got a right boll****** off my skipper. Trouble is, that only made it worse cuase these comedians did it even more.

Excellent thread and hopefully a few more stories will evolve.


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Black Country a language or a dialect
From: GUEST,Ian Pittaway
Date: 18 Oct 06 - 02:28 PM

'Making a noise like a gleed under a door' does not literally = someone singing badly. It *could* refer to that or to a whiney speaking voice, etc. A gleed is a piece of grit. Imagine the noice a piece of grit scraping under a door makes and you'll get the idea.

Lots of dialects, I've found, have the same stories about them. Several accents and dialects claim to be the nearest to old English. I've heard both Black Country folk and Geordies claim that their dialect was once the King's/Queen's English!!!

Glad to see the old Brummie/Black Country thing has been cleared up. It's as annoying as people assuming that all those from the north east are Geordies, or that Canadians are Americans, or New Zealanders are Australians, etc.


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Black Country a language or a dialect
From: Mr Red
Date: 18 Oct 06 - 02:33 PM

Whatever yo call it - it ay like wot they talk in Brum. We is more refined.


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Black Country a language or a dialect
From: Black Diamond
Date: 18 Oct 06 - 04:50 PM

alright then, Paul, I admit it, there is a tunnel in Dudley, but I meant a road tunnel!!
Oi cum from Balsall 'eath, roit in the middle of Birmin'am
BD


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Black Country a language or a dialect
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 19 Oct 06 - 04:34 AM

the most impenetrable accent in England is broad Derbyshire - absolutely no contest.

I married a Derbyshire girl, whilst she was always understandable - her father's accent took me about two years to attune my lugholes to.

Fo the first six months I thought he had a friend called Wesley that he was always talking about.

In fact it was just the way they contract the first person pronoun,I or we, and run it into the next word. so you'd get something like:-

wes'ould gerrus skeats on.
(I had better hurry up)

Apparently HIS Dad talked real broad Derbyshire.


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Black Country a language or a dialect
From: Paul Burke
Date: 19 Oct 06 - 04:48 AM

Which reminds me of the canal boat I saw recently, called Fanny Grace- is that what they call Vaseline in Wigan?


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Black Country a language or a dialect
From: Desdemona
Date: 19 Oct 06 - 02:16 PM

If they drum Black Country Gateau out of town, what's to become of Mr Brain's Pork Faggots?!

~D


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Black Country a language or a dialect
From: Seamus Kennedy
Date: 20 Oct 06 - 12:29 AM

Thank God I'm from Belfast and consequently do not have an accent.

Seamus


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Black Country a language or a dialect
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Oct 06 - 09:01 AM

So you don't at all at all

But Gaelic - now that has a few accents on accents

and just how do you pronounce Siobhan? Or Bodhran - beats me!


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Black Country a language or a dialect
From: Gurney
Date: 20 Oct 06 - 04:54 PM

Not how it's pronounced, how it is spelled.

Shivawn and bowron


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Black Country a language or a dialect
From: The Sandman
Date: 21 Oct 06 - 03:48 PM

or niall, which is ofetn mispronounced, nile[ an anglicisation], but should be neel, in the same way niamdh is neeve not nive,
But when does incorrect PRONOUNCIATION become correct ,if are alot of people are doing it incorrectly does it become correct.
Black country is afine dialect, if you comre from the Black Country.


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Mudcat time: 27 May 5:53 PM EDT

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