Origins: The Watersons' Derby Ram

Subject: Origins: The Watersons' Derby Ram
From: Jon Boden
Date: 17 Oct 06 - 04:56 PM

Any idea whether the tune and 'lay-lum' chorus of the Watersons' version of the Derby Ram is from a traditional source? jb

Subject: RE: Origins: The Watersons' Derby Ram
From: greg stephens
Date: 17 Oct 06 - 05:13 PM

There is an article in the EFDSS Jornal which had a comparative set of variant tunes for this song. Now, I am pretty sure that the Watersons version was one of these. Track down the article(sorry, I havent got the reference) and Im sure it will have a footnote on the precise origin
Interesting how many Derby Rams(like this one) had the 12-bar structure and verse pattern that translated well into the Frankie and Johnny, White House Blues, Railroad Bill type of oldtime blues song. And it also morhed into Didn't He Ramble, the classic New Orleans funeral march.(I've done this myself with a brass section...Bellowhead are welcome to try!).

Subject: RE: Origins: The Watersons' Derby Ram
From: Folkiedave
Date: 17 Oct 06 - 06:03 PM

And I think they STILL sing it south of Sheffield (!!) Coal ASton area.....

Check with Ian Russell at the Elphinistone.......he knows them....

Dave

Subject: RE: Origins: The Watersons' Derby Ram
From: greg stephens
Date: 17 Oct 06 - 06:55 PM

I have checked my references. The article, by Ian Russell(who knows everything there is to be known about the play) is in the EFDSS, Folk Music Journal, 1979 edition(vol 3 no 5). And while it has twenty-odd versions of the song, not one of them has precisely the Waterson tune(though they all have similarities).So we'll have to wait for someone else to come in with the precise sourcee of the Watersons' version. Now, I'd guess they got it from Bert Lloyd, I believe that is how he sang it.
   If you've never heard an old New Orleans band(not a modern trad band) doing "Didnt he Ramble", find one! I was amazed when it dawned on me that what I was hearing was an old Derbyshire tune re-formed into this classic bit of New Orleans folklore. I used it(The Derby Ram) as a processional brass tune with Welfare State International theatre company, in a winter processional show in Wath-on-Dearne, when I was a callow youth.

Subject: RE: Origins: The Watersons' Derby Ram
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 17 Oct 06 - 08:28 PM

Ask Norma or Mike where they got it from?

Kitty

Subject: RE: Origins: The Watersons' Derby Ram
From: Garry Gillard
Date: 17 Oct 06 - 09:07 PM

When I put the words on the Web in 1998 there was discussion about what a laylum was, and some suggestions as to alternatives, but I've stuck with what I hear, here.

Subject: RE: Origins: The Watersons' Derby Ram
From: Jon Boden
Date: 18 Oct 06 - 09:42 AM

That's great. Thanks for all that. j