BS: Is bring a Brummie a state of mind?

Subject: RE: BS: Is bring a Brummie a state of mind?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 19 Oct 06 - 02:42 PM

yeh I bought my first electric guitar at the Music exchange - an antoria telecaster copy - 2nd hand £45.

I remember there was great excitement in the shop that day as they had just managed to part company with a sitar that had been in the window for about three years.

Subject: RE: BS: Is bring a Brummie a state of mind?
From: Rasener
Date: 19 Oct 06 - 04:51 PM

I don't mind either Harvey, so long as we don't lose to the Blues. :-) I do agree with you, it isn't the same anymore. I can remember when you could mix with the other sides supporter and everybody would have a nice laugh and joke. It is a shame those nice days aren't here anymore.

I used to go to a club under the arches of Snow Hill Station, where I saw groups such as John Mayall (Just after Clapton left and Peter Green came in) & Brian Augur and Judy Driscoll (Wheels on fire).
Did anybody else go there?

Also saw Tom Jones with his band (who in those years were absolutely brillaint) live in 66 at a club down by Digbeth, but can't remember the name of the club.

When I left Birmingham in 72 to work in Scotland, I threw a do at the Opposite Lock for all my mates and work colleagues. About a hundred there. Is it still open ?

Subject: RE: BS: Is bring a Brummie a state of mind?
From: GUEST,harvey andrews
Date: 19 Oct 06 - 05:15 PM

The Metro? Under Snow Hill. They had a folk club there too which I played often. The Eagle, Hill Street, had a Blues club run by young Spencer Davis who was a student then I think. The Holy Ground folk club in a pub at the back of the hall of memory,Irish based, where we sang rebel songs not really knowing their provenance and thinking they were history anyway. History later proved us wrong.
MacDonalds folk club at the Australian bar Hurst Street, so named as a slap in the face to the Campbells and the Jug Of Punch folk club. I think the residents were dissident rejects from the Jug.
Oh it was a ferment, a hotbed back them I tell you. Passions were high and we were young!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Is bring a Brummie a state of mind?
From: Rasener
Date: 20 Oct 06 - 01:36 AM

The Metro - thanks Harvey. I didn't realise that it operated a folk club as well.

>>MacDonalds folk club at the Australian bar Hurst Street, so named as a slap in the face to the Campbells and the Jug Of Punch folk club. I think the residents were dissident rejects from the Jug.<<

They just weren't able to sing new song each time, like a certain young Mr Andrews :-)

>>Anybody ever go to the Roebuck in Erdington for the Jazz Club.
<<

Well a very young student called Spencer Davis used to sing for now't in the interval - what did he sing - why Lonnie Donegan songs of course. He almost turned me off Lonnie Donegan :-)

Harvey - you might know this one.
At the age of about 15 when I started work, I never got to see anything of Steve & Muff Winwood who were neighbours (well 100 yards away) after that. Played football with them and went to same youth club etc. I knew of Specer Davis's existance through the Roebuck, but was really surprised when Steve & Muff joined up with Spencer Davis.
Did that come to fruition through the Jug of Punch or The Eagle.
It always intrigued me how they got together. Steve & Muff played skiffle at the youth club, and I know from what you told me, that Steve played at the Jug of Punch.
Sounds like a daft question but with your wealth of knowledge and finger on the pulse on the scene at that time, thought you might just know.

Subject: RE: BS: Is bring a Brummie a state of mind?
From: Black Diamond
Date: 20 Oct 06 - 04:24 AM

The Silver Blades was (and still is I think) right in the centre of town, and I used to go to The Jug o Punch Folk Club, where I was very impressed by The Ian Campbell Folk Group and their young fiddle player Dave Swarbrick - you might have heard of him, and Mr Dunkerley on banjo (I cant remember his first name , was it Brian) was enough for a youg girl to die for.
BD

Subject: RE: BS: Is bring a Brummie a state of mind?
From: GUEST,harvey andrews
Date: 20 Oct 06 - 06:03 AM

As far as I know, Steve Winwood never played at the Jug. They started at the Eagle. It was John Dunkerley, who eventually left the Campbell's and we formed a duo for one year before he sadly passed away.

Subject: RE: BS: Is bring a Brummie a state of mind?
From: Leadfingers
Date: 20 Oct 06 - 06:11 AM

I missed out on a lot of 'night life' in Brum , 'cos I left when I was eleven ! We passed through on the canal a year or so back , and I was intrigued to see The Ackers Country Park - Where we used to go in between collecting Engine Numbers behind the Labour Exchange and the Bombed out Sweet Factory at the top of Malmesbury Road !
And the Tram out to The Lickeys for an afternoon in the country !!

Subject: RE: BS: Is bring a Brummie a state of mind?
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Oct 06 - 06:25 AM

Boys playing football - jumpers for goalposts

Subject: RE: BS: Is bring a Brummie a state of mind?
From: The PA
Date: 20 Oct 06 - 06:41 AM

Cricket 'Stumps' in chalk (nicked from school) on lamp posts! Milk delivered down Green Lane Small Heath by horse and cart, the horse knew exactly where to stop!

Subject: RE: BS: Is bring a Brummie a state of mind?
From: Stu
Date: 20 Oct 06 - 06:46 AM

The Pelican - was that the pub?

We used to go there because we could get served, and they did Hedgehog crisps too.

They used to have discos there on Friday nights that every creed and colour went to. You'd have Hassidic Jews dancing next to Sikhs, Hindus and Muslims and all the usual inner city crowd in the corners and propping up the bar. It was a real melting pot that reminded me of the Cantina scene in Star Wars for all it's colour and diversity. There was never any trouble and it was wonderful.

The curry house in Knowle when I lived there was called the Elora, but the place has changed so much in many ways - many of the old pubs have gone, although the Greswolde was still there last time I looked.

Does anyone remember the curry house on the Stratford Road called The Shirley Temple (cause it was in Shirley - geddit?)?

Subject: RE: BS: Is bring a Brummie a state of mind?
From: The PA
Date: 20 Oct 06 - 07:25 AM

Yeh, I remember the Shirley Temple, is it still there. Anyone remembr 'Mothers' in Erdington, and the music shop in Hurst Street. I think it was called Wasp. There was a massive painting of a Wasp on the wall, caused loads of complaints cos they said it would distract drivers and cause an accident.

And when Broad Street was a shopping area, then it went over to selling textiles and every other shop was Asian, selling clothes and household linen and stuff. Not a bar or club in sight.

Any Roy Harper at the town hall and most of Led Zep sitting in the audience and the banter back and forth between them and Roy on the stage.

I wish I could print off the whole of this thread and keep it for ever.

Subject: RE: BS: Is bring a Brummie a state of mind?
From: Rasener
Date: 20 Oct 06 - 07:38 AM

Thanks Harvey

PA you can print the thread out.
If you make sure you are at the top of the thread, you will see above the thread heading an option that says Printer Friendly. Click on it and you will have a printable version of the complete thread.

I am assuming you don't mean that you haven't got a printer.

Its a lovely thread and brings back many memories

Subject: RE: BS: Is bring a Brummie a state of mind?
From: The PA
Date: 20 Oct 06 - 08:01 AM

Thanks for that Villan, yep I've got a printer.

Really wish Dad was still alive, we had loads of conversations like this about the war and living in Brum in the oldie days.

Have a good weekend all and thanks to all who've joined in (eventhough it wasn't my thread)

Subject: RE: BS: Is bring a Brummie a state of mind?
From: GUEST,Mr (Black country an' prod) Red
Date: 20 Oct 06 - 09:05 AM

Dear stigweard

Dillousional is not the word. Brummie is definitely a state of mined. Just don't tread on the detonator.

Subject: RE: BS: Is bring a Brummie a state of mind?
From: Stu
Date: 20 Oct 06 - 09:18 AM

"There was a massive painting of a Wasp on the wall"

This is ringing a bell with me. When would this have been - in the 70's/early 80's?

Anyone remember Midland Ed, which I think was on Corporation Street? I spent hours wandering around in there.

What about the shopping centre in Sheldon?

Reddington's Rare Records?

Subject: RE: BS: Is bring a Brummie a state of mind?
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 20 Oct 06 - 09:32 AM

Actually all my class at school supported the Villa except one B'ham City supporter who we treated with ridicule. My dad, at 90 has always been a Baggies supporter though- triumph of hope over experience. His solution to the decline in English footballl is simple(!):no more foreign players, bring back the maximum wage (Jimmy Hill should have been hung drawn and quareterd!), make baggy shorts, centre partings and Brylcreem compulsory!

Subject: RE: BS: Is bring a Brummie a state of mind?
From: Rasener
Date: 20 Oct 06 - 10:31 AM

Eh up some photies

Birmingham Buses Anybody go on one of these

LOL I remember this place very well. The local bonking site.

Barr Beacon

Have a look at this video. Not the best of film, but should stir a few hearts. Notice the real Birmingham accent. :-)
The old bullring

The redevelopment in the 60 of the bullring. Once again quality of video not great, but interesting. Listen to the Brummie passion of the presentor

Revamp of Bullring

Have a listen to these

Part 1

Part2

Part3

Subject: RE: BS: Is bring a Brummie a state of mind?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 20 Oct 06 - 10:35 AM

Absolutely, they should have a dress code in folk clubs as well - aran jumpers and acne.

a mate of mine used to teach Stevie Winwood Art at Great Barr Comp.

Nice to hear John Dunkerley's name again. he was an ace accompanist.

Subject: RE: BS: Is bring a Brummie a state of mind?
From: Rasener
Date: 20 Oct 06 - 10:41 AM

Does he remember the uproar when Steve left Great Barr Comp - Al?

Subject: RE: BS: Is bring a Brummie a state of mind?
From: eleanor c
Date: 20 Oct 06 - 04:24 PM

Oh I remember the Midland Ed. and '80s nightclubs called Faces and Xanadu which had paper mache Easter Island statues and glo in the dark flowers on the ceiling.
My Musical Exchanges axe was a Les Paul copy, £85.
Reddington's , yes. Most of my records came from stalls in the Rag Market - one day I found all the Grateful Dead's albums in a big box and bought the lot, very hard to carry 'em all home on the train.

Subject: RE: BS: Is bring a Brummie a state of mind?
From: Black Diamond
Date: 21 Oct 06 - 06:24 AM

to Guest Harvery Andrews sorry to hear that about John Dunkerley, who sadly passed away. I would never have used those words I did about him if I had known that. I loved his banjo playing and I remember a lovely smile in a round happy face.

I certainly do remember Midland Ed I spent many happy hours there wandering round wishing I could buy something!!

I used to catch the no 49 and no 50 bus into town, and Im sure there were some of those single deckers when I was very young (in the 50s) and I seem to remember the stir of the first double deckers but memory can play tricks!
my grandparents family all lived at Weoley Castle by the cemetry and me and my older brothers had to walk past it to visit them. I well remember them scaring me with tales of the dead rising when little girls went past!!! dont you just love older brothers.
BD

Subject: RE: BS: Is bring a Brummie a state of mind?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 21 Oct 06 - 07:54 AM

No my mate was only at Great Barr a year.

Subject: RE: BS: Is bring a Brummie a state of mind?
From: Rasener
Date: 21 Oct 06 - 08:08 AM

From my memory now, he dropped out of school at 14 which caused uproar. He proved em wrong though and has gone on to earn a lot of dough, I would think.

Subject: RE: BS: Is bring a Brummie a state of mind?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 21 Oct 06 - 08:29 AM

The 70's was really myperiod when I went round lots of folk clubs in Brum and environs

My first floorspot was the Station in Sutton Coldfield
There was midnight at The Rep
The Campbells who moved from Digbeth to Hurst Street
the Blackthorne at Coleshill
Nuneaton Arts Centre
The corner House, Bulkington
The THree Barrels, Ampersand
The coach and Horses, Castle brom
The Harvesters at The Boldmere, Sutton
The Fitters Arms, and Andy cavens place at Walsall
the prince of Wales tamworth
the Star at The Communist Club on the Rigway
The Old crown, Digbeth
The Prince of Wales , Digbeth
Bob Lines Clubs - The Beggars Bush and The Manor in Sutton
the Roebuck in erdington
Drowsy Maggies Club in Bournville
the Lion, wolverhampton
the Hare andHounds, Kingsheath

Probably some I'm leaving out.

Subject: RE: BS: Is bring a Brummie a state of mind?
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 22 Oct 06 - 07:51 AM

Reading this thread at least convinces me of one thing - there are bloody football fans everywhere - why don't you all piss off and form your own country? Then the rest of us might get a bit of peace!

Subject: RE: BS: Is bring a Brummie a state of mind?
From: Mr Red
Date: 22 Oct 06 - 08:13 AM

What about the Grey Cock Folk Club? And the Cannock and Lichfield clubs run by a colleague at W& T Avery in Walsall. Then there was the Bush in Pelsall run by Baz Yates - Oh I remember the Pigsty Hill Light Orchestra one night - that was before CHris Newman joined them as part of a trio. And Wheatsheaf in Walsall - saw Martyn Wyndham-Reed sing a few sheep-shearing songs (about 60% of 'em as I remember).

And what about Dave Sampsom's attempt at a Folk Club in Erdington in the 70's - PHLO again when Dave was annoying the artistes so the three de-bagged him on stage. The best laugh of the night.

Of course I am only 29 now..............................

Subject: RE: BS: Is bring a Brummie a state of mind?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 22 Oct 06 - 08:31 AM

Yes of course the grey cock who had Charles Parker, think Radio Ballads rather than Yardbird, involved at some level or other. That was the place where they enquired my influences at the door - I was stuck for an answer but said, Ralph Mctell - the fisherman's smock selling tickets said very superciliously - sorry we DO have to draw the line somewhere....they booked decent guests though - I saw Peggy and Ewan there a few times.

Are you say, The Old Crown in Bore Street Lichfield - run by a guy called Richard and somebody else playing the accordion.

The Fighting Cocks in Moseley run by poet Nic Toczek.

The guy from Magic lantern had a club somewhere Black Country side of the city.

There was The Globe in Tamworth for a while.

The Rose and Crown, Wolverhampton.

as you say The Cannock club run by Laurie (sorry the name's gone!). His wife used to sing.

I'm sure there must be some I've left out ...

Of course.... The Boggery!

Dave Sampson had rather better than an attempt at The Roebuck in Erdington. he booked Capstick, Brimstone, Waterfall, Jeremy Taylor....all the usual suspects!

Subject: RE: BS: Is bring a Brummie a state of mind?
From: The PA
Date: 23 Oct 06 - 03:10 AM

Spoke to my brother over the weekend, he's been in the music business almost all his life. The music shop in Hurst Street was called Wasp. Did anyone go to the free concert in Cannon Hill Park 69/70ish. Remember when the Oasis market opened. Was that at the top of Corporation Street??

Subject: RE: BS: Is bring a Brummie a state of mind?
From: autolycus
Date: 23 Oct 06 - 03:30 AM

Stigweard,

Re your original question,you're neither right nor self-delusional.

The way you feel is the way you feel,it's your truth.

Brummie culture feels right - that's just a fact.




    Ivor

Subject: RE: BS: Is bring a Brummie a state of mind?
From: Rasener
Date: 23 Oct 06 - 04:10 AM

Stigweard, sorry I have only just picked up on this one.

The Pelican - was that the pub?

No it wasn't a pub. It was a big advertising feature in those days presumably above an opticians. From my memory, it could be seen just as you came round the corner by Snow Hill Station in the direction of Great Barr. It may not have been a pelican, but certainly some bird with a pair of glasses on. It was most noticable at night, due to it being illuminated.

I suppose I was about 8 - 10 years old then which would have put it around 1955. Blimey now that does make me feel old :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Is bring a Brummie a state of mind?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 23 Oct 06 - 05:08 AM

I see, and has this pelican troubled you much of late...? If so, it might the pressure of work.....

Subject: RE: BS: Is bring a Brummie a state of mind?
From: Rasener
Date: 23 Oct 06 - 05:19 AM

Hello Doctor Al :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Is bring a Brummie a state of mind?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 23 Oct 06 - 06:02 AM

Just to trying get to the roots of why you wear a kilt and dance the can can in windy places...

Subject: RE: BS: Is bring a Brummie a state of mind?
From: Stu
Date: 23 Oct 06 - 06:38 AM

Hmmm, I think the pub called the Pelican was closer to New Street Station then, under the flyover.

Subject: RE: BS: Is bring a Brummie a state of mind?
From: The PA
Date: 23 Oct 06 - 07:35 AM

Anyone remember Henry's Blues House, bottom of Hill Street. Can't remember the name of the pub, real dodgie place downstairs but the music upstairs was brill. Could only go with my big brother and his mates cos the place looked so rough!

Subject: RE: BS: Is bring a Brummie a state of mind?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 23 Oct 06 - 08:02 AM

Clubs came and went. there was one called Prohibition at Dale End. Malc Stent had a residency there.

Also I forgot to mention Derek Grinell's club in Edgbaston - The Bell and Pump.

Subject: RE: BS: Is bring a Brummie a state of mind?
From: GUEST,Mr (nostalgia is not wot it used to be) Red
Date: 23 Oct 06 - 09:36 AM

Oh! the Old St Phillipians - eh? I remember 1812 there one night. And the Boldmere in Sutton Cfield. And the Gifford Arms in W'ton.
Saw Gerry Lochran there with Rod Daws accompanying him - and Muckram Wakes. Ron Taylor, who part ran the club, is down here now in Gloucestertshire. -

Oh! and wot was the the name of the big pub on the Dudley Road that had a regular club? Got the name of "Rainbow" on my brain! - saw Labbi Sifri - went there with Pixie (it's a long story).

Subject: RE: BS: Is bring a Brummie a state of mind?
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Oct 06 - 09:51 AM

"Ship and Rainbow" according to a Raymond Froggat Fan

Subject: RE: BS: Is bring a Brummie a state of mind?
From: GUEST,iggy
Date: 01 Nov 06 - 10:34 AM

Well hello from sunny Acocks Green.

Am amazed to find this thread on a US site. Mind you, Brummies and Americans have a lot in common. Most of us are from somewhere else originally. Anyway if you aren't near the city is doing fine though I can't say anything about the folk clubs as I haven't played in ages. The last gig I went to was Alison Krause at the Symphony Hall which is an amazing venue acoustically and you can order your interval drinks in advance! Still not a patch on the old Town Hall which they are still debating about as regards restoration. I remember Roy Harper appearing at the Pentangle gig in 60 something and seeing him at Mother's too. Used to be a regular there in the late 60's so I got to see a lot of fine performances including one by John Fahey. Used to get the yellow and blue /black last 11 from Erdington after midnight to the garage at Kitts Green. [BTW , the old routemaster that the WMPT take out is Yellow and Black. I'm not certain of dates but I can remember the colour of the buses. Please tell me I'm not wrong.]
I grew up on the Meadway in the 60's and can remember when Musical Exchanges was Yardley's. It's now Sound Control. Got a 12 string in 65' from Yardley's. Warped neck made me sell it eventually but strengthened my fingers no end. Eventually got an Eko Ranger which my son plays now. Roy wood lived downstairs from us and the Spencer Davis Fan Club secretary lived opposite so we often shared a lift with one or more of them. Downstairs was a guy who eventually developed the LCD screen display. My brother gave him our first guitar so maybe he will see this site sometime.
The city is always changing but it's a lot cleaner air than it was, the buses are more reliable and we are now the Balti capital of the world..apparently...We have no major brewery. Ansells and M&B disappeared into the maws of the new beerage and it's all alcopops and cider down Broad Street, [which has to be seen to be believed on a Saturday night]. Gigs come and go. Fortunately I got to play Ronnie Scotts and the much missed Fiddle and Bone and some of the other rock gigs around but I still miss the immediacy of the folk scene.
I'll try a post again if the thread continues and try to answer if you have any questions. I don't get out much but my son gets around and I'll ask him

Good Luck to you all

Subject: RE: BS: Is bring a Brummie a state of mind?
From: Rasener
Date: 01 Nov 06 - 02:48 PM

Thanks for posting iggy.

I don't know if you can find out if the pub called The sailors Return existed in Deritend, and if so, when it closed. Also I am trying to trace when my grandad ran it and when he stopped running it. I do know he wasn't running it after about 1930. Some 76 years ago. His name was Thomas Worrall

I have tried very hard to get some info, but my only acheivement is that the pub existed.

Don't worry if you can't.

Cheers
Les Worrall

Subject: RE: BS: Is bring a Brummie a state of mind?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 01 Nov 06 - 05:02 PM

How about that Captain of the West Indies cricket team, was he a distant relation?

Subject: RE: BS: Is bring a Brummie a state of mind?
From: Rasener
Date: 01 Nov 06 - 05:51 PM

Yu got it wrong pinky mon. :-)

Sir Frank has his surname spelt differently - Worrell - a different breed. Oh to be as gifted as him. What a player.

Subject: RE: BS: Is bring a Brummie a state of mind?
From: Rasener
Date: 01 Nov 06 - 05:52 PM

Has Brimmo been in touch WLD?

Subject: RE: BS: Is bring a Brummie a state of mind?
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Nov 06 - 03:42 AM

Villan re your grandads pub, I suppose you have tried contactng the local brewery's records perhaps they would have records of employees, local businesses, or the corporation records. Maybe Carl Chinn can help I think you can contact him through the university.I recently began tracing my family history and found that my great great grandad was from a place called Duck End in Essex. And there was me thinking I was a brummie, when I'm really an Essex girl - Ill just fetch me white stiletto's. Good luck.

Subject: RE: BS: Is bring a Brummie a state of mind?
From: Rasener
Date: 02 Nov 06 - 05:03 AM

Hi Guest (essex girl LOL)
I have tried the pub route but no success. I also tried the central library in Brum, but they couldn't find anything.

I haven't tried Carl Chinn - thanks for that.

Subject: RE: BS: Is bring a Brummie a state of mind?
From: GUEST,The PA
Date: 02 Nov 06 - 07:40 AM

Villan re the pub try this: [e-mail] or 0121 414 6971.

Subject: RE: BS: Is bring a Brummie a state of mind?
From: Rasener
Date: 02 Nov 06 - 12:38 PM

I have left a message for him PA. If he doesn't ring back, I will e-mail him. Thanks a lot