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BS: Should everyone vote?

GUEST,Justin Urquart 03 Nov 08 - 05:04 PM
Amos 03 Nov 08 - 03:53 PM
GUEST,Neil D 03 Nov 08 - 03:31 PM
GUEST,Justin Urquart 03 Nov 08 - 03:25 PM
dick greenhaus 03 Nov 08 - 03:24 PM
katlaughing 03 Nov 08 - 02:52 PM
The Villan 03 Nov 08 - 02:34 PM
Amos 03 Nov 08 - 02:05 PM
GUEST,Justin Urquart 03 Nov 08 - 01:56 PM
beardedbruce 17 Sep 07 - 02:24 PM
beardedbruce 17 Sep 07 - 02:22 PM
annamill 14 Sep 07 - 07:37 PM
Bobert 14 Sep 07 - 06:11 PM
Peace 14 Sep 07 - 05:07 PM
Wesley S 14 Sep 07 - 05:06 PM
Bobert 14 Sep 07 - 04:59 PM
Peace 14 Sep 07 - 04:33 PM
Wesley S 14 Sep 07 - 04:31 PM
Peace 14 Sep 07 - 04:13 PM
Wesley S 14 Sep 07 - 03:15 PM
Peace 14 Sep 07 - 03:00 PM
pattyClink 14 Sep 07 - 02:35 PM
beardedbruce 14 Sep 07 - 02:26 PM
pattyClink 14 Sep 07 - 02:21 PM
dick greenhaus 14 Sep 07 - 11:47 AM
Riginslinger 13 Sep 07 - 11:55 AM
GUEST,Neil 13 Sep 07 - 10:00 AM
M.Ted 12 Sep 07 - 08:47 PM
Ebbie 12 Sep 07 - 12:27 PM
GUEST,Shimrod 12 Sep 07 - 12:22 PM
Don(Wyziwyg)T 11 Sep 07 - 08:11 PM
GUEST,The Barden of England sans cookie 11 Sep 07 - 05:27 PM
Amos 11 Sep 07 - 04:30 PM
GUEST,GramdpaNate 11 Sep 07 - 04:27 PM
GUEST,GrandpaNate 10 Nov 06 - 01:34 PM
Slag 03 Nov 06 - 11:41 PM
Rowan 03 Nov 06 - 10:02 PM
GUEST,John Gray in Oz 03 Nov 06 - 05:16 PM
Donuel 03 Nov 06 - 01:34 PM
GUEST,GrandpaNate 03 Nov 06 - 11:26 AM
kendall 24 Oct 06 - 09:27 AM
Peace 24 Oct 06 - 01:08 AM
DougR 24 Oct 06 - 01:03 AM
katlaughing 23 Oct 06 - 07:34 PM
autolycus 23 Oct 06 - 06:26 PM
GUEST,Shimrod 23 Oct 06 - 05:28 PM
kendall 23 Oct 06 - 10:04 AM
DougR 22 Oct 06 - 07:25 PM
GUEST,Grandpa Nate 22 Oct 06 - 11:24 AM
Cats 21 Oct 06 - 03:58 PM

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Subject: RE: BS: Should everyone vote?
From: GUEST,Justin Urquart
Date: 03 Nov 08 - 05:04 PM

His granny took a nose dive tonight.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should everyone vote?
From: Amos
Date: 03 Nov 08 - 03:53 PM

Justin:

Your notion of an infinite SOurce beyond human ken, capable of building all the universes in their glory, which would simultaneously have an abiding interest in the fate of an election on a third-rate planet on the edge of a second rate galaxy in a remote cluster far from the center of this particular Cosmos is laughable. HEre's a clue: God could not care less how you vote,, and he has no opinions about the candidates, their marital statuses, or the elections they are involved in.

IF he did, he would be backing Obama as the Ne4w Testament candidate all the way. I refer you, for example, to Corinthians 13.

A


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Subject: RE: BS: Should everyone vote?
From: GUEST,Neil D
Date: 03 Nov 08 - 03:31 PM

From: Rapaire
Date: 19 Oct 06 - 12:31 PM

When someone enters a voting both, make 'em solve a quadratic equation or answer some other question that shows they know one end of a pencil from another. If they can't do it, zip! down the ol' oubliette. If they succeed, they get to vote.


   The problem with that is such. In a political system in which certain groups are denied a proper education, requiring an intelligence test to vote just continues the cycle of disenfranchisement. Witness the "literacy tests" which along with poll taxes were hallmarks of the Jim Crow south. Besides, who gets to make up the question, equation etc. Some might want to require a nuclear physics problem and then where would us dreamy-eyed poets be.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should everyone vote?
From: GUEST,Justin Urquart
Date: 03 Nov 08 - 03:25 PM

It may well end in tears for you, I imagine it will !

Blessings


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Subject: RE: BS: Should everyone vote?
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 03 Nov 08 - 03:24 PM

I understand that Gov. Pailin was presented with Bobert's quiz. She said she'd have to get back to the pollster with the answers.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should everyone vote?
From: katlaughing
Date: 03 Nov 08 - 02:52 PM

god takes sides? Hmmmm...cast my vote weeks ago and yes, it was for Obama!


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Subject: RE: BS: Should everyone vote?
From: The Villan
Date: 03 Nov 08 - 02:34 PM

No good moaning if you don't vote


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Subject: RE: BS: Should everyone vote?
From: Amos
Date: 03 Nov 08 - 02:05 PM

I have done as you asked, Justin, and cast my vote for Mr. Obama, the senator from Illinois.

I am sure you will be delighted to hear this.

A


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Subject: RE: BS: Should everyone vote?
From: GUEST,Justin Urquart
Date: 03 Nov 08 - 01:56 PM

I ask everyone to come out and vote for a man who loves America and has God on his side.

God Bless America


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Subject: RE: BS: Should everyone vote?
From: beardedbruce
Date: 17 Sep 07 - 02:24 PM

Bobert,

"Yup, this will certainly weed out a few of the morons... "


Yes, but will it weed out the RIGHT morons? What happens when all those inner city wards end up with no votes, and states like Maryland end up Republican?


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Subject: RE: BS: Should everyone vote?
From: beardedbruce
Date: 17 Sep 07 - 02:22 PM

Bob


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Subject: RE: BS: Should everyone vote?
From: annamill
Date: 14 Sep 07 - 07:37 PM

Should everyone vote?

Hmm...NO, only those who vote the same way I do!!

;-)

Love, Annamill


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Subject: RE: BS: Should everyone vote?
From: Bobert
Date: 14 Sep 07 - 06:11 PM

No, Wes... No help... And it ain't open book either... Yup, this will certainly weed out a few of the morons...


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Subject: RE: BS: Should everyone vote?
From: Peace
Date: 14 Sep 07 - 05:07 PM

Well, there'd be no point asking the audience . . . .


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Subject: RE: BS: Should everyone vote?
From: Wesley S
Date: 14 Sep 07 - 05:06 PM

Bobert - Do we get to "phone-a-friend" when we take your test?


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Subject: RE: BS: Should everyone vote?
From: Bobert
Date: 14 Sep 07 - 04:59 PM

Okay, maybe everyone should be able to vote just' that some shouldn't have their votes actually counted...

Let me explain:

Okay, you step into the ballot box and there are three multiple choice questions:

1. Which of the following is not one of the three branches of government:
    A. The Legislative Branch
    B. The Executive Branch
    C. The NASCAR Branch
    D. The Judical Branch

2. Who is the current president of the United States?
    A. Jeff Burton
    B. Clint Black
    C. Rush Limbaugh
    D. George Bush

3. If you have lost the owners manual to your chainsaw and forgot that you were "cautioned" not to eat it or drink the gasoline you should:
    A. Eat the sumabich anyway but not drink the gasoline.
    B. Just drink the gasoline but not eat the chainsaw.
    C. Eat the chainsaw then wash it down with gasoline.
    D. None of the above

Now, here's where my brillence shines... I think that anyone who can't get 2 outta 3 above questions correct should have their voted accepted, of course, but not counted...

Now, of course the Repubs would try to block this brillent move toward levelin' the playing field but, hey???

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Should everyone vote?
From: Peace
Date: 14 Sep 07 - 04:33 PM

There are some of those people who DO go to the polls. They also on occasion decide the vote.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should everyone vote?
From: Wesley S
Date: 14 Sep 07 - 04:31 PM

There is no way and there should not be one either. Everyone is legally allowed to vote. My question was if we should try very hard to get noninterested voters to show up on election day. In my mind if someone is too stupid or uninformed to know that there is an election going on today then I'm not going to be upset that their voice wasn't counted.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should everyone vote?
From: Peace
Date: 14 Sep 07 - 04:13 PM

OK. Here's a serious answer.

Probably not. Some people are too stupid to breathe let alone select folks to represent all of us. That said, I have to ask how one would go about ensuring a fair process whereby some voters are not allowed to or a fair method of prorating votes.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should everyone vote?
From: Wesley S
Date: 14 Sep 07 - 03:15 PM

In case anyones forgotten here's my original post. I'm AOK with any thread drift but I wanted to make sure that folks knew what the original point was.

October 19th of 2006

"In the past I'd always thought that the more people who voted – the better. That the more people who voted – the better the cross-section of people's opinions that would decide who was elected, what bond bills were passed,ect. Now I'm beginning to think that is a little naive. Recently our local paper showed that Texas has a terrible record on the number of women who vote. Basically – very few do. And very few of them even knew that an election was being held according to polls held on election days. And I started thinking – "Why should I care" ?

It's not that I don't want women to vote. It's not a gender thing. The question is – do we want folks voting – male or female – that can't be bothered to even know that there is an election being held that day? Let alone having enough interest to find out about the candidates and the issues. If they can't be bothered – why should we care? Idealistically if everyone got involved and got informed the electorate really would be the voice of the people. But that isn't going to happen. And I'm beginning to think that's a good thing."


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Subject: RE: BS: Should everyone vote?
From: Peace
Date: 14 Sep 07 - 03:00 PM

"RE: BS: Should everyone vote?"

Does a chicken have lips?


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Subject: RE: BS: Should everyone vote?
From: pattyClink
Date: 14 Sep 07 - 02:35 PM

You're not listening. Nobody wants to keep anyone from voting. Anybody can vote!


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Subject: RE: BS: Should everyone vote?
From: beardedbruce
Date: 14 Sep 07 - 02:26 PM

"intensely stupid and uninformed folks "

"Only those who are prepared to cast a reasonable vote should vote."



WHO gets to decide who is "reasonable" and who is "stupid and uninformed"?


Like freedom of speech, freedom to vote is only meaningful if you give it to those whose opinions you dislike.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should everyone vote?
From: pattyClink
Date: 14 Sep 07 - 02:21 PM

Everyone is so righteous about 'everybody deserves to vote!'. Well, duh. The original question on the floor is, should we stop coaxing the uninformed and apathetic to get out and vote as their patriotic duty.   I think we should. There are some intensely stupid and uninformed folks out there, and while they have every right to vote, maybe they should skip it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should everyone vote?
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 14 Sep 07 - 11:47 AM

I once had a T-shirt that said: If God wanted us to vote, He would have given us some candidates


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Subject: RE: BS: Should everyone vote?
From: Riginslinger
Date: 13 Sep 07 - 11:55 AM

"The general concept of this thread sounds Republican..."

            I'm not sure that's true. In the last two elections we saw people who'd been totally brainwashed by the Relgious Right vote in a manner that would otherwise have been totally against their own interests.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should everyone vote?
From: GUEST,Neil
Date: 13 Sep 07 - 10:00 AM

Voting against the incumbent? Always? What if the incumbent is doing a good job? Or even a halfway decent job? What if the new guy is a moron? What if the incumbent has been in office long enough to sit on or chair committees that can do real good for your community?
   Term limits? Same argument.
   Some have suggested I.Q. tests in order to be allowed to vote. Lets not forget that I.Q. tests were a standard practice under Jim Crow. Besides, for the most part, it's the people with lower intelligence who choose not to vote anyways.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should everyone vote?
From: M.Ted
Date: 12 Sep 07 - 08:47 PM

The logical flaw in this" term limit business" is that it supposes that someone who has never held an office is somehow more qualified for it than someone who has held the office.

Another flaw is that, when you get a politician's attention by throwing him out of office, you have got the attention of an unemployed private citizen--not the attention of the person who replaced him, who is likely to be drunk with newly acquirred power--


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Subject: RE: BS: Should everyone vote?
From: Ebbie
Date: 12 Sep 07 - 12:27 PM

VATI? Why not just institute one-term limits? Then you could vote FOR someone and not just knee jerk against.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should everyone vote?
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 12 Sep 07 - 12:22 PM

Yep! Everyone should vote - there is no alternative!

And (as I think is being suggested somewhere above) we should vote against the incumbent at least until the incumbent stops working for Big Business and starts working for us, the voters and taxpayers.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should everyone vote?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 11 Sep 07 - 08:11 PM

The right to vote is possibly the most important right anyone can have, in the context of being able to register an opinion of the performance of his representatives.

Everyone having that right should exercise it, or accept the fact that he has no right to complain about the government he gets.

Simple
Don T.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should everyone vote?
From: GUEST,The Barden of England sans cookie
Date: 11 Sep 07 - 05:27 PM

It's Democracy people!!! Wake up!!!
Sorry Amos but : Only those who are prepared to cast a reasonable vote should vote. is not democracy. One person, one vote. And far too many people have died for that ideal for the rest of us to forget it. Just VOTE!
John Barden


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Subject: RE: BS: Should everyone vote?
From: Amos
Date: 11 Sep 07 - 04:30 PM

1. Everyone should vote.
2. Only those who are prepared to cast a reasonable vote should vote.
3. See #1.



A


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Subject: RE: BS: Should everyone vote?
From: GUEST,GramdpaNate
Date: 11 Sep 07 - 04:27 PM

Vati Party

VATI is the first letter in "Vote Against The Incumbents," and that is what it means. Vati means you always vote against the person holding the office, the incumbent, regardless of political affiliation.

The majority of our Congressmen and Senators have absolutely no fear of losing their offices. They know that party loyalty [be it Republican or Democrat] of their constituency will assure their perpetual reelecting. In the whole Senate you are likely to have only five or six seats [in the Congress less than 30 seats] that are not securely locked-up by one, or the other, political parties.

And actually, nothing is gained when we do manage to send an occasional new representative to Washington. In short: They are simply gobbled up by the system. They are introduced to pac-money, and the powerful party leaders [Party Lords] and end up cuddling up to Big Business, and voting the party line, for legislation that enhances the Conglomerate's bottom line, to the determent of their constituency, to the determent of America.

Now, a large percentage of Congressmen and Senators win their seats by very small margins, less than 5%, so if just 10% of the voters Vati, we would likely unseat nearly 20% of our Representatives. If we could generate as much support as Ross Perot did, [according to the last election] we would kick out close to 90% of the House and Senate.

But more important than just getting rid of some self-serving politicians, unseating just 10% of the House and Senate would definitely get their attention. And then we could demand drastic change. We could demand a clean break between our Legislators and Big Business. We could outlaw all soft-money, and make any contact between our Legislators and Big Business [except publicized discussion in an open forum] illegal.
We can demand term limits. I am for an eight-year term limit, for all Government Offices. Let Senators serve one six year term or change the length their terms to four years. We can demand secure borders, and that everything entering our ports be inspected. We could demand a rigidly enforced alien worker program, which caters to America's needs. And demand a viable plan which honorably ends the war in Iraq.

We can let Washington know, anyone who votes against anything the majority of America clearly wants, had better start looking for a new job.

Vatiing is a very viable method of voting to save America, to cure what is wrong with America, a viable way of stopping America's rapid descent into mediocrity.

The interest in "vote against the incumbents" is growing exponentially. Now we need to get organized, form a political party. Much like any other political party, except we won't run candidates for office. Our challenge will be to make the other Parties Candidates legislate for American, and America's People.

If you have any ideas, comments, want to help get organized, or whatever, please leave a message at: http://voteagainsttheincumbents.blogspot.com/


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Subject: RE: BS: Should everyone vote?
From: GUEST,GrandpaNate
Date: 10 Nov 06 - 01:34 PM

I not only voted.
I vatied.
And I feel great.
Gramps


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Subject: RE: BS: Should everyone vote?
From: Slag
Date: 03 Nov 06 - 11:41 PM

In elections in the US of A? Only Citizens who are legally registered to vote should vote one ballot only. That's the technical part. Only the educated and informed should vote. Only those with an IQ of 135 or higher should vote. Only Men should vote. Only men who are of the royal blood line should vote! Only the Aristocracy should vote. Only rich white freemen should vote! Oh, wait! that's already been done!

If you are a concerned citizen YOU should vote your conscience! If you don't you can't complain because your opinion doesn't matter. I hope you all go cast your votes this Tuesday. Let our public servants reflect the hearts and minds of the majority for such is democracy.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should everyone vote?
From: Rowan
Date: 03 Nov 06 - 10:02 PM

The first three sentences and the last four sentences in GUEST,John Gray in Oz' posting are factual while the rest are partisan and only arguable. However...

I happened to be in SC during the summer and autumn leading to the election of Bill Clinton and found it interesting to compare the two systems. I found many who rather agreed with the aphorism, common in Australia, "It doesn't matter who you vote for, it's always a politician that gets in." When they found we had compulsory voting, and that you were fined if there was no record of you voting or having a valid excuse, most I talked with thought it would be wonderful to have the same system in America. I then confused them a little by telling them that many Australians used all the arguments presented above in the thread to justify a preference for noncompulsory voting.

My own preference is for compulsory voting, as it forces everyone to take some level of responsibility for the consequences. I realise that many duck any notion of responsibility in this matter and can even express it on the ballot papers. Because we use a 'preferential voting' system (I can bore you with the details another time) you must put a number in each candidate's box on the paper; that's the simplest version but it can get a bit more complex. If you just number them in consecutive order down the list, it's counted as valid but is called a "donkey vote"; their proportion of the total is mulled over by psephologists. If you mark any part of the ballot paper outside the boxes (by writing derisive insults, for example) or use comments in the boxes, the ballot paper is classified "Invalid" and not counted to any candidate; the proportion of these in the total is described as "the protest vote" and is also mulled over by psephologists.

Many of my American friends who thought compulsory voting was a generally good idea were not so sure when I told them that this meant that Australians were required to inform the Australian Electoral Commission (an arm of the Commonwealth Govt also used by State and Municipal Govts) of any change of address. The independence of the AEC ensured no nonsenses of the types we heard about a couple of years ago but they had to have a record (in the public domain) of where to mail the notification you were to be fined.

I'm not sure compulsory voting, compared with noncompulsory votin, would have a great difference in the results but I think it would certainly change the tactics used by both politicians and voters. I regard myself as unwilling to allow any arm of govt to arrogate to itself any responsibility I think I should exercise. I want to vote and I construct my tactics accordingly and then go and vote, even when I have to list 163 candidates in descending order of preference on a ballot paper the size of a decent tablecloth.

Cheers, Rowan


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Subject: RE: BS: Should everyone vote?
From: GUEST,John Gray in Oz
Date: 03 Nov 06 - 05:16 PM

In Oz it is compulsory to attend a polling station on election and have your named crossed off, otherwise a fine is incurred. Once inside the booth you can write what you like on the ballot cards.
But its important to vote if you wish to maintain a democratic system.
Back in the 50's here the leadership of our waterside workers ( longshoremen ? )became dominated by communist officials. This was because rank & file members would rather go to the pub after hours instead of going to Union meetings and voting for moderate delegates.
So strikes became neverending and international freighting was effected. Remember this was during the Cold War. The Union black banned the loading of merchant ships taking supplies to our troops in VietNam. Our gov't had to purchase merchant ships, commission them into the Royal Australian Navy, crew them with regular sailors and load them in navy dockyards using sailors and soldiers as the labour force.
It took over 20 years to rectify the situation on our waterfront.
If you vote-you can change things. If you don't vote-you can change bugger-all.
And voting gives you one important right - the right to criticise.
If you don't participate in the process then you cannot bitch about it.

JG / FME


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Subject: RE: BS: Should everyone vote?
From: Donuel
Date: 03 Nov 06 - 01:34 PM

"Hell yes" if you are a Dem
"Hell no" if you are a Rep


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Subject: RE: BS: Should everyone vote? Yes
From: GUEST,GrandpaNate
Date: 03 Nov 06 - 11:26 AM

Why we must Vati?
Vati = Vote Against The Incumbents
I believe, most people in America, old enough to vote, know that corruption is flourishing in our Nation's Capital. Yet incredibly, this knowledge seems to generate very little real concern. It definitely should: Because corrupt politicians can even bring America, the richest, most powerful country that ever existed, to her knees.

Every day the Republican and Democratic Party Lords work at enacting bills, which cedes one international conglomerate after another some financial quid pro quo, for pac-money received. And nearly all concessions to Big Business prove to be detrimental to America's working people. Under the present system America will eventually have hungry masses without health care, millionaires, and no middle class. America, as we know her, is at this moment rapidly degenerating.

Our National debt has now exceeded $8,548,384,110,614 as of the first of October 2006. To put that number in perspective, we just passed 300,000,000 citizens, so for every legal man, woman and child in America, we now owe $28,494.61. Talk about selling children into slavery, America has to be, the all time number one, on this list. Just the interest on our debt is costing us 427 billion, 419 million, 205 thousand, 5 hundred, and 30 dollars a year, at 5 percent. Actually we don't borrow our money that cheaply. That is 1 billion, 171 million, 11 thousand, 5 hundred, 22 dollars each and every day, which our legislators are throwing away, because they failed to balance our budget. And every day, they are in session, our misguided politicians continue to give away, more and more money to Big Business. Their insatiable greed is like a growing cancer, sucking the life-blood out of America. Even if we could elect legislators, which prudently budgeted America's great wealth: It would take our children, at least, thirty years to pay off these incredible debts, we have recklessly accumulated.

Still not concerned? Well let me relate one more fact: If America's lenders get nervous, and cut off our credit, our government will collapse, beyond resurrection, in less than 120 days.

Obviously, the Senators and Congressmen ruling the House and Senate are never going to voluntarily give up their seats, or the source of their power, their pac-money. And stated short and quick: The only way, we are ever going to oust enough corrupt officials to demand drastic political reform, is to vati. Washington is in sad shape, and if we love this country we had best wake up, and do something to correct this untenable situation. If you have a better idea, I'll listen to you, if not, let's vati.
GrandpaNate @ Rawlins, Wyoming. http://grandpanate.com


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Subject: RE: BS: Should everyone vote?
From: kendall
Date: 24 Oct 06 - 09:27 AM

Doug, surely you jest. Even the most devoted party loyalist can see that we have spent billions of dollars and half a million lives on a lost cause as a result of a lie!

If I were a republican, I would hang my head in shame to see what the neo cons have done to my country. Invaded a soveriegn country for revenge against its leader. Run up the national debt to 8 TRILLION dollars! What the hell are we going to do do if China calls in our debt? What is it that these "conservatives" are conserving? You people are unable to separate George Bush from the republican party. They are NOT one and the same!

I switched parties when the "Actor" was nominated by the republicans back in 1980. Conservative my ass, he spent more money than all previous presidents combined, never balanced the budget as he promised to do, then there were the lies about Iran-Contra and Arms for hostages.

Teddy Roosevelt and Abe Lincoln must be turning over in their graves.
How can anyone with more than a teaspoon full of brains say that Iraq is better off now than when we invaded?


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Subject: RE: BS: Should everyone vote?
From: Peace
Date: 24 Oct 06 - 01:08 AM

"Democrats need 15 new seats in the House and six in the Senate to claim a majority. Non-partisan analysts Stuart Rothenberg and Charles Cook estimate Democrats will gain at least 18 to 20 House seats and possibly more.

Taking over the Senate is a tougher proposition. Democrats are favored to pick up four Senate seats held by Republicans and are competitive in three more in border states: Virginia, Tennessee and Missouri.

Democrats are keeping an eye on a potential pickup in Arizona, Republicans on possibilities in New Jersey or Michigan."


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Subject: RE: BS: Should everyone vote?
From: DougR
Date: 24 Oct 06 - 01:03 AM

Outrage about what, Kendall?

DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: Should everyone vote?
From: katlaughing
Date: 23 Oct 06 - 07:34 PM

Our early voting opened, today, so I am done...went in, asked if the machines were by Diebold (they didn't know and I couldn't find any maker's labels), had more questions they couldn't ask, they assured me all machines are locked etc. and *safe*, and I cast my votes, fwiw. AND< they didn't make me move my van which was parked right in front with bumper stickers which included "Defend America - Fire the Republicans."


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Subject: RE: BS: Should everyone vote?
From: autolycus
Date: 23 Oct 06 - 06:26 PM

(Having read hardly any posts[want my bed,okaaaaaaaaaaaaay?])

People should only be allowed to vote when they reached a satisfactory level of being informed.
That's why Schiller wrote early in the 19th c."Votes should be weighed, not counted."




    Ivor


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Subject: RE: BS: Should everyone vote?
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 23 Oct 06 - 05:28 PM

Here's an interesting 'thought experiment' - what would happen to a democratic society if everyone in it decided not to vote?

Here are some possibilities:

- All the politicians realise the error of their ways, apologise, and start being nice to the electorate.

- The society's political system is thoroughly reformed and everyone lives happily everafter.

- Some power crazed general fills the power vacuum and the society languishs under a brutal dictatorship for several generations.

I know which one I think is most likely.

F--CKING WELL VOTE !! - it's better than the alternative. And if you don't like the system get off your fat butt and change it!


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Subject: RE: BS: Should everyone vote?
From: kendall
Date: 23 Oct 06 - 10:04 AM

Where is the outrage?


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Subject: RE: BS: Should everyone vote?
From: DougR
Date: 22 Oct 06 - 07:25 PM

No. Only American citizens who register to vote should vote.

DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: Should everyone vote?
From: GUEST,Grandpa Nate
Date: 22 Oct 06 - 11:24 AM

Vote Against The Incumbents.
Vati, Vati.

That's V-A-T-I, with a long 'A' and a long 'I'.

The present state of America makes me sick. It actually makes me nauseous to ponder how far this once magnificent country has slipped into mediocrity. When I was a young man, fifty years ago, you could mention just about anything: And America was best at that.

Back then, America enjoyed the best health care, the best schools, and the best working conditions on Earth, while we worked less hours, made more money, and enjoyed a life style never before seen upon this planet.

Our coal mines were producing more coal, our steel-mills smelting more iron, and our assembly-lines led the World in the manufacture of beautiful automobiles, refrigerators, wash-machines, dryers, and the hoard of smaller appliances and gadgets (which eliminated most of the drudgery of our daily chores) and introduced mankind to the life-of-ease, we all now enjoy.

Now, American High School Graduates rank only average (whether tested in Mathematics, World History, Language, Science or any other critical field of expertise) and compared with the test scores of students from the other industrialized nations.

Our so-called health care system stinks, it is without question, the most dysfunctional conglomeration of nonsensical laws bureaucrats have ever assembled. It assures illegal aliens and greedy politicians unlimited free health care, while it renders millions of hard working, honest citizens, incapable of obtaining any kind of health insurance.

The new Social Security Drug Plan deducts a premium for drug insurance, which you can bet will double every year (for at least the next two years) from the social security checks, of subscribers. A great many drugs are not covered by this new plan, and it only pays a maximum of about 70% on any drugs, a lot less on most. When the total drug bill (what the retiree and the government pays) reaches $2250.00, Grandma gets cut off, has to pay it all herself, until her total drug bill reaches $3500.00. Obviously if Grandma can not afford her drugs, her bill will never get to $3500.00, so she will go without her drugs for the rest of the year. Of course the monthly premium will still be deducted from her Social Security Check. The drug companies formulated this drug bill, got it enacted, and only the drug companies are going to benefit from it. (Our government gives them the premiums.) In short, this Shaft Our Grandparents Bill is nothing but a multi-million dollar windfall for the drug companies.

The above bill is sure not the worst medical bill our elected officials have ever enacted. It just happens to be the last that made me angry. Hundreds of anti consumer bills and amendments are on the books, which benefit only the medical and or the drug industries. Foreign competition to American Drug Companies is nonexistent. If it was legitimized, we could import drugs from reputable foreign drug facilities, for as little as 10% of the extortion we are now forced to pay our American Drug Companies.

Sad to say, but the Medical Cartels and Drug Companies, with their unchallenged power, are not the worst villains when it comes to manipulating our US Government into giving them a license to gouge us. The international oil and gas conglomerates, the interstate utility companies, railroad cartels, automobile and airplane manufacturing companies, the cable companies, international shipping cartels and a score of other business concerns all wield as much or more power over our Congress, Senate and President, than the drug companies do. Big business is our real enemy. Big business controls both our national and state governments, and big business is the real reason America is losing ground on all fronts, the reason America is slowly but steadily sliding into mediocrity.

The companies mentioned above, along with a score of Internationally
Recognized Countries and a hoard of other mighty forces, funnel billions of dollars annually into Washington, to influence the Republican and Democratic Party Leaders to legislate on their behave.   

The leaders of the Democratic and Republican Parties, in the Congress and senate, now have more control over their subservient Congressman and Senators, than any Marine General has over his troops. The political parties control the pac-money. And the pac-money is what decides who will get elected, or heaven forbid, smeared. The political bosses can't just walk down on the floor and tell a congressman or senator that they are fired. But they can have anyone that fails to kowtow to the powers that be, ostracized, rendered powerless, and kept busy answering complaints. And they can definitely keep anyone from being re-elected. I believe it is very important that we all know the political parties have strict control over our congressmen and senators. If we are going to declare war, prudence behooves us to learn all we can about our enemy.

Now, I just pulled what I have written here off the top of my head. So if you find a mistake, don't get excited, it is not that important, the overall theme of this opinion is correct. And furthermore it is also correct that with a minimum of research, anyone can ascertain for themselves that this greatest of all nations, is rapidly slipping into mediocrity.

And even the United States of America, the greatest nation that ever existed, can fall from within, if we continue to allow misguided politicians, to give up piece after piece of good government, to anyone who is able and willing to pay for preferential treatment.

I have been telling people for years; when in doubt always vati. But only in this last year has the urge to really push this concept become obligatory. Actually, voting against the incumbents is a very viable method of straightening out what is wrong with America. Many congressmen and senators win their sets by very small margins, less than 5%. So if just 5% of the voters would vati, we would probably get near 25% of the senators and congressmen. And you can bet we would get their attention. If as many voters vati-ed, as voted for Ross Perot in 1992 (He drew 18.9% of the popular vote.) we would probably unseat about 75% of both houses. Very few politicians win their seats by 19% of the vote. Folks this plan definitely has possibilities.

Politician's egos are all wrapped up in their positions. Actually the only thing in the World, politicians love more than pac-money, is their influential positions, their jobs. And on the very day our legislators learn that their electorate is actually threatening to vote them out of office, they are going to be magically stricken with a burning desire to legislate on behave of their constituency.

The only question left is, where are you going to place your loyalty, to the political party that you have been blindly supporting, or to America? You can't serve two masters, and be loyal to both. We have to take the power away from the political bosses, to the extent that it allows our elected representatives to vote the way we tell them to vote. Or in thirty years you are not going to be able to tell the difference between Washington and the corrupt Government of Mexico, or for that matter, tell the difference between America and Mexico.

I wrote this poem more than twenty years ago, and it
reverberates my sentiment now as vibrantly, as then.

VATI, VATI.

AS MIGHTY ROME FELL, AMERICA COULD DIE.
WHETHER IT FAILS OR NOT, IS UP TO YOU AND I.

I worried and stewed, but by-and-by,
came up with a plan, where you and I,
can put America the a road, to a brand-new high.
Just blame the politicians, get blood in your eye,
and Vote Against The Incumbents. Vati, vati.

Now just voting won't do it, we've got to vati.
That's v, a, t, i, with a long A, and long I.
Vote against the incumbents, and you vati.
Things will never get better, until we vati.
Vote against the incumbents, Vati, vati.

This is no time, to just set and sigh.
America will fail, without you and I.
The time has come, we must do or die.
We must all vote, and we must vati.
Vote against the incumbents, Vati, vati.

Things won't just get better, by-and-by.
Unless the apathetic voters, you and I,
hit those poles with blood in our eye.
And not only vote, but wisely vati,
Vote against the incumbent. Vati, vati.

We dare not buy, some political lie,
the America we love, is about to die.
Politicians no longer, serve you and I,
but all acquiesce to the powers that buy.
Vote against the incumbents. Vati, vati.

The newly elected may want to serve you and I,
until that powerful pac-money catches their eye.
Then party loyalty becomes, their big lie.
As they vote with the pac, for their piece of the pie.
Vote against the incumbents, Vati, vati.

Congressmen and Senators are nigh as apt to die,
as meet defeat at the poles, by you and I.
They know we'll vote for'em, they don't have to try.
America is declining, as democracy goes awry.
Vote against the incumbent. Vati, vati.

Waxing fat on the apathy, shown by you and I,
Politicians became hogs, and Washington's a sty.
But we can change all that, in the blink of an eye,
if we just get off our apathy, and dutifully vati.
Vote against the incumbents. Vati, vati.

If just one out of twenty, of us would vati,
We'd get nigh a forth of that Washington sty.
Now that might be to few, to help you and I,
But we'd darn sure make the rest of them shy.
Vote against the incumbents. Vati, vati.

And when; "Foul, foul," the politicians cry.
And charge that; "Great careers will sadly die."
Stand up and look them, straight in the eye,
And vow; "Losing only makes the truly-great try."
Vote against the incumbents. Vati, vati.

From the County Coroner, to that Washington sty,
if you don't love the incumbent, always vati.
Help turn America toward, a brand—new high.
Teach your kids and your friends, they must vati.
Vote against the incumbents. Vati, vati.

If the state of America, makes you want to cry,
then help start a revolution, no one has to die.
Our party loyalty sent elections go so far awry.
And we can fix that error, just revolt and vati.
Vote against the incumbents. Vati, vati.

Part your 2nd and 3rd fingers; that "V" means vati.
Send this to a friend, who you think will comply.
Let's all band together, and give'em a black eye.
Vati, vati, and hearty bye-bye.

If you like this, copy it, and send it on.

Grandpa Nate @ Rawlins, Wyoming.
Http//grandpanate.com


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Subject: RE: BS: Should everyone vote?
From: Cats
Date: 21 Oct 06 - 03:58 PM

You are right number 6! I shall never forget the footage of the people queueing in Africa to vote for the first time and the woman who, when told she would have to wait another three or four hours, said that it didn't matter as she had waited all her life to vote and a few hours more made no difference.


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