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Lyr Req: Hard Times (C F Sussdorff)

DigiTrad:
ALL IN AND DOWN AND OUT BLUES
BEAVER ISLAND BOYS
COURTING THE WIDOW'S DAUGHTER
HARD TIMES (CHEATING)
HARD TIMES IN DIXIE
HARD TIMES OF OLD ENGLAND
HARD, HARD TIMES
RIGS OF THE TIME
TEACHERS' HARD, HARD TIMES
THE DURANT JAIL
THE POORE MAN PAYES FOR ALL


Related threads:
Lyr Add: Hard Times in the Country by Don Edwards (6)
Chord Req: Hard Times of Old England (17)
Lyr Req: Down on Penney's Farm / Penny's Farm (32)
Chord Req: down on penny's farm (1)
Lyr Req: Hard Times of Old England Retold (Bragg) (16)
Lyr Req: Maggie's Farm (Bob Dylan) (19)
Lyr Add: The Widow's Old Broom (2)
(origins) Origins: It's Hard, Hard Times (8)
Help: Maggie's Farm - Origin? (21)


GUEST,Richie 20 Oct 06 - 12:47 AM
GUEST,Richie 20 Oct 06 - 01:02 AM
Joe Offer 20 Oct 06 - 02:01 PM
GUEST,Richie 20 Oct 06 - 11:12 PM
GUEST,Richie 21 Oct 06 - 12:36 AM
Jim Dixon 22 Oct 06 - 10:48 PM
GUEST 22 Oct 06 - 11:39 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 26 Oct 06 - 09:24 PM
GUEST,Richie 26 Oct 06 - 09:56 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 26 Oct 06 - 09:58 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 26 Oct 06 - 10:56 PM
GUEST 26 Oct 06 - 11:13 PM
GUEST,Richie 26 Oct 06 - 11:20 PM
GUEST 26 Oct 06 - 11:53 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 27 Oct 06 - 12:13 AM
Q (Frank Staplin) 27 Oct 06 - 05:47 PM
Goose Gander 27 Oct 06 - 06:21 PM
Goose Gander 27 Oct 06 - 06:23 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 27 Oct 06 - 07:49 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 27 Oct 06 - 10:19 PM
GUEST,Richie 27 Oct 06 - 11:17 PM
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Subject: origin lyrics: Hard Times
From: GUEST,Richie
Date: 20 Oct 06 - 12:47 AM

Hi,

I'm looking for any lyrics or info on "There's a Hard Time Coming" by C. F. Sussdorff written in 1843.

This is not the Steven Foster song and I'm not sure of the relationship to "Down on Penny's Farm."

It's been recorded by Riley Puckett and John Carson.

This is all I have on C. F. Sussdorff: C. F. Sussdorff married Louisa C. Hagen. Apparently lived in NC.

In 1851: March 12th - Mr. Sussdorff gave a magic lantern show in Salem. (1) April 30th - Mr. Sussdorff gave a magic lantern show in Raleigh. (22)

So I'm looking for the lyrics to "Hard Times" by C. F. Sussdorff or any other versions.

Richie


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Subject: RE: origin lyrics: Hard Times
From: GUEST,Richie
Date: 20 Oct 06 - 01:02 AM

Here's a bit more info:

Hard Times Sussdorff, C. F

There's a Hard Time Coming [Me II-P 1] - Sussdorff, C. F.
Rt - Hard, Hard Times

Hard, Hard Times
Rt - Down on Penny's Farm ; Hard Times of Old England ; Rigs of the Time ; Hard Times (Wherever I Go) ; All In, Down and Out Blues ; There's a Hard Time Coming

1. Carson, Fiddlin' John. Old Hen Cackled and the Rooster's Gonna Crow, Rounder 1003, LP (1978), trk# A.02 [1925/06/24]
2. Lomax, John A. & Alan Lomax / American Ballads and Folk Songs, MacMillan, Bk (1934), p.332
3. Bell, Farwell A.. Cox, John Harrington / Folk-Songs of the South, Dover, Sof (1967/1925), p512/#183b [1917] (Hard Times)
4. Blondahl, Omar (Sagebrush Sam). Down to the Sea Again, Rodeo RLP 7, LP (196?), trk# A.05
5. Brand, Oscar. Laughing America, Tradition TLP 1014, LP (1960), trk# B.02 (Hard Times)
6. Christl, Margaret; & Ian Robb. Barley Grain for Me, Folk Legacy FSI-062, LP (1976), trk# 2 (Hard Times)
7. Hickerson, Joe. Joe Hickerson, Folk Legacy FSI-039, LP (1970), trk# B.01 (Hard Times)
8. Holdstock and MacLeod. Winter in the Wood, Holdstock HDMC ?, CD (2003), trk# 8 [1985-90]
9. Peacock, Ken. Songs and Ballads of Newfoundland, Folkways FG 3505, LP (1956), trk# A.05 (Hard Times)
10. Steele, Pete. Banjo Tunes and Songs, Folkways FS 3828, LP (1958), trk# 6 (Song of Hard Times)
11. Welsch, Roger. Sweet Nebraska Land, Folkways FH 5337, LP (1965), trk# 11

Hard Times Coming
12. Gellert, Dan; and Shoofly. Forked Deer, Marimac 9000, Cas (1986), trk# A.05a

Thanks,

Richie


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Subject: RE: origin lyrics: Hard Times
From: Joe Offer
Date: 20 Oct 06 - 02:01 PM

Hi, Richie - the only CD version I can find is here on the Document collection of the works of Fiddlin' John Carson - there's a sound clip at the link.
Also a Riley Puckett recording here (click)
-Joe-


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Subject: RE: origin lyrics: Hard Times
From: GUEST,Richie
Date: 20 Oct 06 - 11:12 PM

Thanks Joe,

I saw your thread and info under "It's hard, hard times."

I have John Carson's version but it's hard to understand. If anyone has the lyrics to either one it would be appreciated.

I'm trying find info on the origin of "Down on Penny's Farm."
The real question is: what is CF Sussdorff's version and where can it be found?

Perhaps this can shed some light on several of the hard time songs.

Anyone?


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Subject: ADD: There's a Good Time Coming (Mackay)
From: GUEST,Richie
Date: 21 Oct 06 - 12:36 AM

"There's a Good Time Coming" by Foster(1846) has the same lyric with Good instead of Hard. It's possible that someone could have taken the lyrics (not by Foster by the way) and changed them, keeping only the first line. I know it's a stretch but...

THERE'S A GOOD TIME COMING
(music by Foster Words by Charles Mackay)
To Miss Mary D. Keller, of Pittsburg, PA.
Lines from the London Daily News.

1.
There'a a good time coming, boy's,
A good time coming;
We may not live to see the day,
But earth shall glisten to the ray.
Of the good time coming,
Cannon balls may aid the truthm
But thought's a weapon stronger;
We'll win our battle by its aid;--
Wait a little longer.

2.
There's a good time coming, boys,
A good time coming,
A good time coming:
The pen shall supersede the sword,
And right, not might, shall be the lord,
In the good time coming;
Worth, not birth, shall rule mankind,
And be acknowledg'd stronger;
The proper impulse has been giv'n;
Wait a little longer.

3.
There's a good time coming, boys,
A good time coming,
A good time coming;
War in all mens eyes shall be
A monster of iniquity.
In the good time coming,
Nations shall not quarrel then,
To prove which is the stronger;
Nor slaughter men for glory's sake;--
Wait a little longer.

4.
There's a good time coming, boy's,
A good time coming,
A good time coming;
Shameful rivalries of creed
Shall not make the martyr bleed.
In the good time coming,
Religion shall be shorn of pride,
And flourish all the longer;
And Charity shall trim her lamp;--
Wait a little longer.

5.
There's a good time coming, boys,
A good time coming,
A good time coming;
And a poor mans family,
Shall not be his misery,
In the good time coming;
Ev'ry child shall be a help,
To make his right arm stronger;
The happier he, the more he has;
Wait a little longer.

6.
There's a good time coming, boys,
A good time coming,
A good time coming;
Little children shall not toil
Under, or above the soil.
In the good time coming,
But shall play in healthful fields,
Till limbs and minds grow stronger;
And ev'ry one shall read and write;--
Wait a little longer.

7.
There's a good time coming, boys,
A good time coming,
A good time coming;
The people shall be temperate,
And shall love instead of hate,
In the good time coming.
They shall use, and not abuse,
And make all virtue stronger;
The reformation has begun;--
Wait a little longer.

8.
There's a good time coming, boys,
A good time coming,
A good time coming;
Let us aid it all we can,
Ev'ry woman ev'ry man,
The good time coming.
Smallest helps, if rightly giv'n,
Make the impulse stronger;
'Twill be strong enough one day;--
Wait a little longer.

Click for Stephen Foster Thread


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Subject: RE: origin lyrics: Hard Times
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 22 Oct 06 - 10:48 PM

Here's my attempt at transcribing the sound sample of Fiddlin' John Carson's recording at Amazon.com:

CHORUS: B'lieve it on my soul, there's a hard time a-comin'.
Yes, O Lord, there's a hard time a-comin'.

VERSE: Preacher in the pulpit, preachin' mighty bold,
Preachin' for the dollar and not for the soul.
God only serves it (?) twelve times a year,
And you'll in time go to ... (*) but the preacher don't care.

[*Deliberate pause here; I suppose the missing word is "hell."]


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Subject: Lyr Add: THERE'S A HARD TIME COMING (John Carson)
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Oct 06 - 11:39 PM

Jim,

Here's what I have so far (haven't spent much time at it). Need to get Riley Puckett's version.

THERE'S A HARD TIME COMING
John Carson


(Now if) a man wants to marry and the will is good, the will is good
…?..all around….?
And the hair on his face looks like a Billie-goat

CHORUS
Believe-a to my soul there's a hard time a-coming.
Yes oh Lord there's a hard time coming.

Dirty old..?..he'll puff and he'll blow
Take your plow and all go to hoe
All's ya gonna make....?
And when get done he'll double it down

CHORUS
Believe-a to my soul there's a hard time a-coming.
Yes oh Lord there's a hard time coming.


Preacher in the pulpit, preachin' mighty bold
Preachin' for the dollar and not for the soul.
God only serves it twelve time a year
And you die and go to (hell) but the preacher don't care

CHORUS
Believe-a to my soul there's a hard time a-coming.
Yes oh Lord there's a hard time coming.


There's the old doctor actin' so smart
I believe to my soul he's the worst in the lot
Says he's gonna cure you for half your (?)
And when you're dead he'll sue you for the rest

CHORUS
Believe-a to my soul there's a hard time a-coming.
Yes oh Lord there's a hard time coming.

(Now if) a maid wants to marry and the will is good, the will is good
You put up your hair and you powder up the face
And you hide your snuff (?) in a safe old place

CHORUS
Believe-a to my soul there's a hard time a-coming.
Yes oh Lord there's a hard time coming.


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Subject: RE: origin lyrics: Hard Times
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 26 Oct 06 - 09:24 PM

A copy of "Hard Times: a comic song composed and arr. for the piano forte," by Sussdorff, C. F., 1848, may be found at Library of Congress, Performing Arts Reading Room (Madison, LM113); Call Number M1.A13 S (Case.


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Subject: RE: origin lyrics: Hard Times
From: GUEST,Richie
Date: 26 Oct 06 - 09:56 PM

So can I call the Library of Congress and have them make copies and mail it to me?

I go up to DC a couple times a year but...

Richie


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Subject: RE: origin lyrics: Hard Times
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 26 Oct 06 - 09:58 PM

Found the 1843 printing. I will post in a few minutes.


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Subject: Lyr Add: HARD TIMES (C F Sussdorff)
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 26 Oct 06 - 10:56 PM

HARD TIMES, A Comic Song
C. F. S.; 1843 (Sussdorff)

1. Come listen awhile, and I'll sing you a song,
Concerning the times and it shall not be long,
Now everybody is trying to buy;
And cheating each other, I cannot tell why,
And it's hard, hard times.

2. From Father to Mother, from Sister to Brother,
From Cousin to Cousin are cheating each other;
Since cheating has become so much in the fashion,
I'm afraid to my soul it'll spread all over the nation;
And it's hard, hard times.

3. Oh! there is the Baker. By baking he eats,
And so does the Butcher by killing his meat,
They kick up the steelyard and make it weigh down,
And swear it's right if it lacks twenty pounds;
And it's hard, hard times.

4. And here is the Lawyer as you plainly see,
He'll plead you a case for a very large fee,
He'll plead you a case and tell you it's right;
And when he is gone, he'll say it's a lie.
And it's hard, hard times.

5. And here is the Doctor I liked to forget,
I think to my soul is the worst of the flock,
He'll tell you he'll cure you for half you possess,
And when you are dead, he'll take all the rest.
And it's hard, hard times.

6. And here comes the Young Ladies I lik'd to have missed,
I think to my soul they are fond to be kissed,
They act the coquet when they have the sense,
And tell you to call on sometime hence.
And it's hard, hard times.

7. Oh there are the Old Maids who ought to get clear,
For the Boys won't have them and I think it's for fear;
And after they get married if they should do wrong,
They are sure to have their heads cracked with the tongues.
And it's hard, hard times.

8. And here comes the Bachelor who is every man's scorn,
He is like an old garment all tattered and torn.
The girls and widows all unite, to toss him skyhigh,
And I think it's quite right.
And it's hard, hard times.

9. And here is the Widow who I ought to let clear,
But to finish my song she must be mentioned here,
She is so well acquainted with catching the beaus,
She'll take in a fellow before ever he knows,
And it's hard, hard times.

10. And here are the Young Men the worst of the whole,
They'll tell you they love you to their very soul;
They'll tell you they love you when they are sitting by,
And when they are gone they'll swear it's a lie.
And it's hard, hard times.

Sheet music at American Memory, on which the composer's name is given only as C. F. S. Published by W. R. Bayley, Philadelphia.
At the foot of page one with the copyright data (not readable), the author's name is written in manuscript. At the top of page one, also in ink, is "Deposited Aug. 8, 1843, by C. F. Sussdorff (signature) as author.

http://hdl.loc.gov/loc.music/sm1843.390350

A rather poor version of the song, done better in English and American song sheets, but concerned more with people (widows, young men and women, bachelors, etc.) rather than occupations.

A much longer version of "Hard Times," also at American Memory, is on a song sheet published by Leonard Deming, Boston, some 22 verses, but all concerning occupations. Also approx. mid-19thc. but undated.


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Subject: RE: origin lyrics: Hard Times
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Oct 06 - 11:13 PM

Great Work Q,

It's easy to see where John Carson's version and the following versions come from. Compare these entries from Brown:


HARD TIMES

#332B from Brown.

Come all ye young people, I sing you a song
Which is not very long,
How everybody is trying to trade
And cheating each other, I cannot tell why,
From father to mother and sister and brother
And cousin and kinfolks are cheating each other.
And it's hard, hard, hard, hard times.

There is the old blacksmith I'd like to've forgot;
I believe in my soul he's the worst of the lot.
He'll shoe your horses and sharpen your plows
And at the end of the year he'll drive off your cows.
And it's hard, hard times.

There is the old shoemaker I'd like to've forgot
I believe in my soul he's the worst of the lot.
He'll go stitching along an inch at a clip
And he'll swear by Joe it never will rip.
And it's hard, hard times.

There is the old preacher I'd like to've forgot;
I believe in my soul he's the worst of the lot.
He'll go to church twelve times in the year,
And if you die and go to the devil he really don't care.
And it's hard, hard times.

There is the young lady I'd like to've forgot:
I believe in my soul she's the worst of the lot.
She'll slick up her hair and to church she will go,
And what is it for but to catch her a beau?
And it's hard, hard times.

#332B 'Hard Times.' From Miss Jewell Robbins (later Mrs. C. P. Perdue), Pekin, Montgomery county, some time between 1921 and 1924. With the tune. Basically the same text as A but reduced by omissions from twelve stanzas to five and with numerous minor alterations.

#332C 'Hard Times.' Reported by Vernon Sechrist of Thomasville, Davidson county, in 1928, "as remembered by Mrs. Augusta Fouts at the age of 77 years." The first stanza only.

#332D 'Hard Times.' From Miss Pearle Webb of Pineola, Avery county.
The tune, and a fragmentary stanza not found in A or B:
I really do believe it's for the sake of old
They starve the women and the children out of bed,
And it's hard times, hard times.


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Subject: RE: origin lyrics: Hard Times
From: GUEST,Richie
Date: 26 Oct 06 - 11:20 PM

Now look at the beginning of the Bentley's "Down on Penny's Farm":

Come you ladies and you gentlemen
And listen to my song,
I'll sing it to you right, but you might think it's wrong,
May make you mad, but I mean no harm,
It's all about the renters on Penny's farm.

CHORUS:
It's hard times in the country,
Down on Penny's farm.

Looks like Down on Penny's Farm is also based loosely (The opening lines are identical) on Sussdorff's "Hard Times."

Richie


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Subject: RE: origin lyrics: Hard Times
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Oct 06 - 11:53 PM

Hard Times must have been fairly popular, spawning various rewrites during the 1800's.

Here's a link to a different Hard Times song sheet at American Memory:http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?amss:14:./temp/~ammem_iBG9::@@@mdb=mcc,gottscho,detr,nfor,wpa,aap,cwar,bbpix,cowellbib,cal

Richie


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Subject: RE: origin lyrics: Hard Times
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 27 Oct 06 - 12:13 AM

I think that Guest is suggesting that "Hard Times" versions with a similar first verse to "Out on Penny's Farm" are multiple, and I would agree. Although 1843 seems early, I think others preceded it. It's getting late, so tomorrow I will post the very long version published by Deming. Or just part of it. It could be a little older than Sussdorff's.
The first verse is in the same vein:

Well, since you request it, I'll sing you a song,
And tell you how people do jumble along;
But the times are so bad, that we scarcely can live,
So I nothing shall ask, if you've nothing to give,
In these hard times.


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Subject: Lyr Add: HARD TIMES (extended)
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 27 Oct 06 - 05:47 PM

http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/r?ammem/amss:@field(DOCID+@lit(as10514a))

Lyr. Add: HARD TIMES
19th c. American song sheet

Well, since you request it, I'll sing you a song,
And tell you how people do jumble along;
But the times are so bad, that we scarcely can live,
So I nothing shal ask, if you've nothing to give,
In these hard times.
2.
The Doctor will dose you with physic and squills,
With blisters and clysters, and powders and pills;
Till your cash is expended, then breathing a home,
He will cry out, poor man, your time it is come,
But it is hard times.
3.
The Clothier will cry out his dye-stuff is scarce,
And as for bank bills, they are all but a farce;
So he must have silver for all that is due,
Yet logwood, soap and vinegar, make a good blue,
In these hard times.
4.
The Tailor will cry out, your pattern is small,
But he may get you a garment by saving it all;
Your silk, your twist, your thread and your lining,
He'll cabbage one half, then charge you for trimming,
In these hard times.
5.
The Priest he will tell you which way you must steer,
To save your poor souls, which he holdest so dear;
But if he don't draw something out of your purse,
He will take off his blessing and whack on a curse,
In these hard times.
6.
The Lawyer will tell you your case it is clear,
If you've plenty of cash you have nothing to fear;
But his fees by bar rules he certainly squares,
And then there's left nothing at all for your heirs,
In these hard times.
7.
The Merchant on goods must have fifty per cent,
And as much crave on old debts, and cash that is lent;
But still he has luxuries plenty on hand,
Which he'll coax you to buy, then grapple your land,
In these hard times.
8.
The Miller declares he will grind for your toll,
And do your work well as he can for his soul;
But if you turn your back, with his dish in his fist,
He will leave you the toll, and himself take the grist,
In these hard times.
9.
The Carpenter will tell you he'll build you a house,
So tight and so snug, it won't harbor a mouse,
For two dollars a day, but he won't take a job,
Though he and his apprentice won't half earn their grog,
In these hard times.
10.
The Blacksmith will cry out, his stock is so dear,
He cannot trust out his work but a year;
He'll set a few shoes, or mend your old plough,
And by the next fall he must have your best cow,
For 'tis hard times.
11.
The Tanner, he snatches at every hide
Of your sheep, and your cattle, and horses you ride;
And by the next winter they're lost or proved rotten,
And all that are not marked are surely forgotten,
In these hard times.
12.
The shoemaker whistles, and hammers, and sweats,
And promises work to pay off his old debts;
You shall have it next week, if existence is spared,
But when the time comes he is never prepared,
For 'tis hard times.
13.
The Pedlar declares that his goods are the best
That ever were brought from the East or the West;
That tin-ware and jewelry, hair-combs and clocks,
Are quite necessary for all clever folks,
In these hard times.
14.
The jeweller works in the finest of gold,
And makes the best ear-rings that ever were sold;
Tells his pedlars to lie, to dispel ladies' fears,
Till canker and verdigris eat off their ears,
In these hard times.
15.
The School-master rages for want of more pay,
And declares he will have it, or else go away;
Ninety days in each quarter he is strutting about,
Though four weeks make a month, leaving Saturday out,
In these hard times.
16.
The Tinker, he'll tell you he'll mend all your ware,
For little or nothing, but cider and beer,
But in a small patch he'll put nails a full score,
And in stopping one hole he makes twenty more,
In these hard times.
17.
The Barber declares he don't labor for pelf,
Only shaves every blockhead that can't shave himself;
But six cents he must have, from his friends or his foes,
Or else a bold knave, he won't let go your nose,
In these hard times.
18.
The Sadler, so honest, declares he can't cheat,
With his narrow wool web, and his sheepskin for seat;
A little bog hay for to stuff out the pads,
And must have twenty dollars of our country lads,
In these hard times.
19.
The old Farmer declares he has nothing to spare,
And wishes that Congress would give him a share
Of the surplus cash, to fill up his purse,
And he'd swear he is poor, or anything worse,
In these hard times.
20.
The hatter will tell you he'll make you a hat,
From the fleece of a sheep, or a skunk, or a cat;
But he'll take out the fur, and jam in the wool,
And much more he will do, his neighbor to fool,
In these hard times.
21.
The baker he bakes all the bread that we eat,
And likewise the Butcher kills all our fat meat;
They'll hang on the steelyards and make them bear down,
And swear there's good weight, when it lacks half a pound,
In these hard times.
22.
The Fiddler will tell you he'll play such a night,
For four dollars he'll play till it's broad daylight;
But before two o'clock, he is sleepy and dull,
He'll take some more grog, then he can't play at all,
In these hard times.
23.
Then there's the Sheriff, I almost forgot,
And he is the worst bird we have in our flock;
He will go to your house and take what he please,
And when he's got all, he will double his fees,
O! then, 'tis hard times.
24.
The Weaver he'll tell you he's good at his trade,
If you will fetch your yarn, good cloths shall be made;
But if you watch closely this lover of pelf,
He's pilfering yarn all the time for himself,
In these hard times.
25.
The Hunter for game, searches mountains and hills,
Every thing that he meets he immediately kills;
To wind up the mischief, the good man, perhaps,
Hooks a coon, or a fox, from another man's traps,
In these hard times.
26.
The Cooper, he warrants his work to be nice,
It never will fail, if you keep it from ice;
Full twelve month, or longer, I'll wait for the pay,
The work tumbles down, you are sued by the way,
In these hard times.
27.
The Printer he'll tell you, "Friend, now is the time
To hear from Old England, or some distant clime,"
Believe me, poor man, he's your money in view,
Perhaps, when too late, you will find my words true,
In these hard times.
28.
The Sailor, when finding a storm drawing near,
Will lift up his hands to his Maker in fear;
But soon as a calm, he's forgetful of death,
And pours impious curses at every breath,
In these hard times.
29.
The Ostler will give your horse plenty of hay
And when your back's turn'd he'll take it away;
For eats he puts chaff, and in corn mixes bran,
And still he cries out, I'm too honest a man,
In these hard times.
30.
The Tavern-keeper and his wife, both will scold,
And call me a villain, perhaps, I'm so bold;
But hand me a drop, just to moisten my clay,
And I'll certainly stop and no more will I say,
About hard times.

Printed by Leonard Deming, Boston. American Memory, Nineteenth-Centurt Song Sheets.

Note that several of these verses were also used by Sussdorff in his short version printed in 1843.


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Subject: RE: origin lyrics: Hard Times
From: Goose Gander
Date: 27 Oct 06 - 06:21 PM

This song seems close in theme to The Dodger Song

I wonder if there is any direction relationship between the two?


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Subject: RE: origin lyrics: Hard Times
From: Goose Gander
Date: 27 Oct 06 - 06:23 PM

Sorry, that should have been "direct relationship".


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Subject: RE: origin lyrics: Hard Times
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 27 Oct 06 - 07:49 PM

A while back I posted a song found in Belden that belongs to this same group. Belden traces the satirical form back to examples as old as 1614 (Shirburn Ballads).
I won't re-post, but here are a couple of versesfor comparison:

SONG OF THE TIMES
Coll. 1905, Missouri)

And I see the married ladies wear satins for dress
When their husbands are bankrupt and in great distress.
They had better be at home washing up dishes,
Darning old stockings, and mending their husband's old breeches,
These hard times, these hard times.

And there's the old doctor, I like to forgot.
I do think in my soul he's the worst of the flock;
He'll promise to cure you, for half you possess,
And when you are dead, he will go for the rest.
Oh, it's hard times, it's hard times.

Thread 74176: Origin Dodger Song

A version of "Hard Times," coll. in Michigan, 1934, has versions of some of the same verses as those in the Deming song sheet, e. g. verse 21, the Baker:
The Baker he'll cheat you in the bread that you eat,
And so will the Butcher in the weight of his meat;
He'll tip up his scales and make them go down,
And he'll swear it is weight when it lacks half a pound, it lacks half a pound,
And so it is hard times wherever you go.

The last verse echoes the first of "Down on Penny's Farm:"

You've listened a while and give ear to my song,
Therefore you can't say I've sung anything wrong.
If there's anyone here from my song takes offence,
They can go to the devil and seek recompense, and seek recompense,
And so it is hard times wherever you go.

pp. 767-768, Duncan Emrich, 1974, "American Folk Poetry," Little, Brown and Company.


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Subject: RE: origin lyrics: Hard Times
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 27 Oct 06 - 10:19 PM

Michael, I agree that there are relationships among these cheating songs, but at the moment I am just trying to find examples that show differences and am leaving the thinking to later.


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Subject: RE: origin lyrics: Hard Times
From: GUEST,Richie
Date: 27 Oct 06 - 11:17 PM

Here are corrected lyrics for John Carson's version:


LYR ADD: THERE'S A HARD TIME COMING
Fiddlin' John Carson Transcribed by Lyle


1. Old men want to marry, and they would if they could,
Could if they would;
Go all around in their old sock coats,
And the hair on their face looks like a billygoat.


CHORUS: B'lieve-a to my soul there's a hard time a-comin'.
Yes, oh Lord, there's a hard time a-comin'.


2. There's the old blacksmith, puff and he'll blow,
Make you a plow and also a hoe.
Says he's gonna make them for half of the amount,
And when it is done, he'll double the account. CHO.


3. Preacher in the pulpit, preachin' mighty bold,
Preachin' for the dollar and not for the soul.
Ride in his circuit twelve times a year,
And you can die and got to (hell) but the preacher don't care. CHO.


4. There's the old doctor I like to forgot,
I b'lieve to my soul he's the worst in the lot.
Says he's gonna cure you for half you possess,
And you are dead, he'll sue you for the rest. CHO.


5. Old maids want to marry, would if they could,
Could if they would;
They bob off their hair and they powder up their face,
And they hide the old snuff in a particular place. CHO


Richie


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