Open Letter to Max

Subject: Open Letter to Max
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Oct 06 - 08:49 AM

Please do something to control Shambles' constant babbling. It sure would be appreciated by a lot of people.

Subject: RE: Open Letter to Max
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Oct 06 - 09:08 AM

why am I reminded of........

Subject: RE: Open Letter to Max
From: nutty
Date: 24 Oct 06 - 09:10 AM

I'm sure that Max would appreciate a name 'Guest', as well as specifics.

Membership costs nothing and would allow you to send Max a PM regarding your problems.

Subject: RE: Open Letter to Max
From: Max
Date: 24 Oct 06 - 09:17 AM

Our priority number 2 is to beef up the back end security of the site so that we can confront such issues. I cannot currently effectively enforce a ban on the savy. It would be too easy for them to find a workaround and get back in, now angry. Trust me, this matter will be dealt with in time. Trust me, we working as hard as we can to make this happen as soon as we can.

Subject: RE: Open Letter to Max
From: wysiwyg
Date: 24 Oct 06 - 09:19 AM

Thanks for your prompt reply, Max.

~Susan

Subject: RE: Open Letter to Max
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Oct 06 - 09:36 AM

Hi Nutty,

I really didn't want to use my name for this one. No need to become too popular or unpopular. Obviously, Max knows the specifics about this (see above).

Subject: RE: Open Letter to Max
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Oct 06 - 09:37 AM

Thanks Max. Ican't wait for it to happen. His threads just go on and on and on.

Subject: RE: Open Letter to Max
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 24 Oct 06 - 10:21 AM

This is unnecessary. If you don't like them, don't read them, and don't post to them.

Subject: RE: Open Letter to Max
From: dwditty
Date: 24 Oct 06 - 10:25 AM

Amen

Subject: RE: Open Letter to Max
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 24 Oct 06 - 10:29 AM

Yea Verily!

Subject: RE: Open Letter to Max
From: GUEST,bemused
Date: 24 Oct 06 - 10:32 AM

Dear max could you please do something about the asshole members who can't control themselves. They have to open certain posts just to bitch. Very sad. Any takers on the opening posters identity? Ummmm I'll put a fiver on giok.

Subject: RE: Open Letter to Max
From: Lox
Date: 24 Oct 06 - 10:32 AM

And forsooth!

Subject: RE: Open Letter to Max
From: Skipjack K8
Date: 24 Oct 06 - 10:46 AM

Nah, it ain't Giok, he enjoys being unpopular

Subject: RE: Open Letter to Max
From: SINSULL
Date: 24 Oct 06 - 10:49 AM

Skip over the offending posts. Don't open the offending thread. In other words, control yourself. How hard is that?
Mary

Subject: RE: Open Letter to Max
From: GUEST,bemused
Date: 24 Oct 06 - 11:00 AM

Obviously far too hard for some Mary. And if shambles were blocked who would they go running to max about next? Do these people manage to control themselves in real life? Worrying somewhat.

Subject: RE: Open Letter to Max
From: skipy
Date: 24 Oct 06 - 11:02 AM

I agree that all that say "don't read him"
Skipy

Subject: RE: Open Letter to Max
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 24 Oct 06 - 11:16 AM

"In other words, control yourself. How hard is that?"

Well, you couldn't, so why expect others to?

Subject: RE: Open Letter to Max
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 24 Oct 06 - 11:23 AM

Some people have me frothing at the mouth faster than others. One was Gobson, and the old Gargoyle was another. There is of course another. Wonder who that could be?

Subject: RE: Open Letter to Max
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Oct 06 - 11:28 AM

It's amazing the way that Shambles can polarize this group. He should be dealt with the exact same way that Martin Gibson was. There is obviously enough technology here to prevent MG from returning. Use it for Shambles too.

Subject: RE: Open Letter to Max
From: SINSULL
Date: 24 Oct 06 - 11:34 AM

I had the same advice re:Martin Gibson. MG is gone; Shambles is next on the list; then who? Check the Help Threads - there is a new candidate in the offing.
Ignore them and let Max et al spend time on more productive activities. They are aware of the the problem and certainly as annoyed by it as anyone here.

Subject: RE: Open Letter to Max
From: The Barden of England
Date: 24 Oct 06 - 11:41 AM

The ones I'd like to see banned are the ones from GUEST. If you have an opinion then give it, and use your name. If you can't put up - then shut up.
John Barden

Subject: RE: Open Letter to Max
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 24 Oct 06 - 11:44 AM

Members only posting then John? I think that's an excellent idea!
G.

Subject: RE: Open Letter to Max
From: Grab
Date: 24 Oct 06 - 12:18 PM

This ain't any kind of "open letter". For starters, letters are *from* someone. That is, they finish, "Signed, ...". And secondly, an open letter is a public statement that you, personally, believe strongly in something. If you believe so little in what you're saying that you're not prepared to stick your name under it, why should anyone else give a damn about it?

Not that I support Shambles' campaign against the admins in any way, but this is a right cop-out. Speak up in public, PM Max in private, or stay quiet altogether, but leave out the anonymous public sniping.

FWIW, I doubt Giok started the thread. So far, he's not been backward in voicing his opinions and putting his name to them, so I don't see why he'd back out now.

Graham.

Subject: RE: Open Letter to Max
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 24 Oct 06 - 12:44 PM

This really aughta be BS'd

Subject: RE: Open Letter to Max
From: The Shambles
Date: 24 Oct 06 - 12:47 PM

Closed threads and deleted posts

Subject: RE: Open Letter to Max
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 24 Oct 06 - 12:49 PM

Don't make their point FOR them Shambles......

Subject: RE: Open Letter to Max
From: Big Mick
Date: 24 Oct 06 - 01:10 PM

For what it's worth, I think this is a horseshit thread. What will happen, will happen. It is designed to get another thread going on the same old topic by "someone" who would like to see another discussion on the same old topic.

Time to ignore this thread, and this topic. As Max says, when the time and technology are right (and you can take it from me that it is being worked on) steps will be taken to end this stuff. In the meantime, ignore and enjoy watchin' 'em flop around trying desparately to get someone to rise to the bait.

I will, how about you?

Mick

Subject: RE: Open Letter to Max
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 24 Oct 06 - 01:15 PM

" Time to ignore this thread"
Except that by posting, you did exactly the opposite....

So lets get a mod in here to lock this stupid thing.... Like any other message board worth its salt would do.

"I think this is a horseshit thread"
Well, there, at least, we reach.

Subject: RE: Open Letter to Max
From: The Sandman
Date: 24 Oct 06 - 01:24 PM

I have no problems with Shambles, but I get pissed off with anonymous guests, who bring this forum into disrepute,. Dick Miles

Subject: RE: Open Letter to Max
From: Bill D
Date: 24 Oct 06 - 01:30 PM

**ALL** sites should have security and be able to control what kind of posting they will allow. It is up to Max to decide. For years now, the basic course has been to be as free & open as seemed reasonable.

It is inevitable that, with as many posters as we have and with Google indexing us, that many will find their way here. Max needs a way to deal with that, as well as with possible issues with 'members'...Shambles is only ONE issue, and not the worst....but no matter how it is decided, ANY decision needs to have ways to be enforced, and expecting ALL posters to "control themselves" in all situations is simply not practical, even if it is a nice thought. Human nature and all that.

Let Max deal with it....(if Jeff had not had problems, it might already be done). In the meantime, try to imagine what it is like from the management's point of view...not just from your own personal notion of what should be done...or not done!

It is not easy to make a decision....no matter what is decided, someone will object. Me, I think this place is pretty good, and I rather imagine it still will be, even if I don't agree totally with how everything is done.

Subject: RE: Open Letter to Max
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Oct 06 - 01:36 PM

and expecting ALL posters to "control themselves" in all situations is simply not practical, even if it is a nice thought.

bill we're not talking rocket science here. If some people are unable to not open a thread, which they do so on a regular basis, just to moan at shambles then should they be allowed near electrical items and kitchenware at all.

Very, very weak willed individuals who have to have someone banned because their own self control is non existent.

Subject: RE: Open Letter to Max
From: Bernard
Date: 24 Oct 06 - 02:59 PM

With the possible exception of someone making a direct personal attack against me (or someone I care about), nothing anyone posts could ever really upset me. I find the petty sniping and nit-picking pitiful.

It is made worse by people mentioning the errant posters by name, and thus giving them something to gripe about.

Leave them alone, as Big Mick says, and they will eventually get bored and go away.

In the meantime, though, their behaviour is likely to get worse. That's the way children are - they find their naughtiness is getting some sort of attention, which feeds their need. If they are ignored, they become even naughtier to try to get the attention they have lost, until finally they get fed up and go looking elsewhere.

I don't think it's too much to expect all posters to exercise some adult restraint. If they can't, as GUEST just said, keep them away from electrical equipment and sharp objects...!

I suppose someone will now cite this posting as an example of someone not exercising restraint... HAH!

Subject: RE: Open Letter to Max
From: Bill D
Date: 24 Oct 06 - 03:19 PM

well, it's no use debating. It's so nice some folks have the 'moral high ground' and have such great self-control. I, personally, have tried to have more, but durned if I don't give in sometimes! (and sometimes it just feels like a game...and you can't help doing something....like my 40 line parody sentence a few months ago. It wasn't helpful...but OH! it was fun! I have slowed down a lot, but I can't promise I would NEVER say anything else if it keeps going!

The 'sharp objects and electrical equipment' metaphor is cute, but hardly helpful. What I said was true: You CANNOT make a rule/suggestion that 100% of ANY group will folow. (Did you ever try to tell people not to jaywalk? All you can do is make a few rules, enforce what you can of the worst infringements, and hope..)

Subject: RE: Open Letter to Max
From: autolycus
Date: 24 Oct 06 - 03:57 PM

Bill,Bill,Bill. "It's no use debating" ??? If you think that, my friend, then - er , er, no,can't bring myself to ask.

   On the other hand, I think a lot of frustration among posters comes from being torn between your thought,Bill, namely what's the use debating? , and the wish to debate.

What's also in all this,IMO, is the wish of many posters to say something which might be the final word; or, to put that another way, to write something which will have the effect of a knockout blow. And when the actual result is more responses, frustration sets in.

   And we all get irrelevant ,ignorant or uncomprehending answers. And responses outside our competence.

   

   I can fathom people who do want to debate with the Shambles of this world; I grasp why people would just ignore such threads; and why posters might simply proceed as though "annoying" posters were invisible.

   Those seem to me the three best possibilities. Trying to get someone like that 'deleted', in an open forum, seems to me a waste of time, space and effort. Debate, ignore the poster, or ignore the threads seem the sensible options.




    Ivor

Subject: RE: Open Letter to Max
From: Mrs.Duck
Date: 24 Oct 06 - 04:03 PM

This is definitely a case of deja moo ie the feeling that you've heard all this bull before.

Subject: RE: Open Letter to Max
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 24 Oct 06 - 04:04 PM

Hands up, who here thinks they have Mudcats best interest in mind when they post an opinion on issues like this?

Subject: RE: Open Letter to Max
From: jeffp
Date: 24 Oct 06 - 04:04 PM

Actually it's often a case of not wishing to debate, but also not wishing to let lies stand unchallenged.

Subject: RE: Open Letter to Max
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 24 Oct 06 - 04:08 PM

Is't that what the internet is for? A haven for lies???

LOL

Subject: RE: Open Letter to Max
From: Lox
Date: 24 Oct 06 - 04:09 PM

I actually really want to get my teeth into this one. I'd love to get involved and I don't want to ignore it for one second.

I just can't think of anything to say...

Ah well ...

see you all down the bagel shop ...

Subject: RE: Open Letter to Max
From: gnu
Date: 24 Oct 06 - 04:12 PM

Re:

Subject: RE: Open Letter to Max
From: Big Mick - PM
Date: 24 Oct 06 - 01:10 PM

I'll try.... but I am so weak.... my apologies.

Subject: RE: Open Letter to Max
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 24 Oct 06 - 04:26 PM

Shambles may go on a bit. Well, he does go on a bit. And then he starts going on again. And then he really gets into his stride...

But he doesn't go out of his way to insult people, in the way Gibson did so obsessively and repeatedly. I hope some time Shambles will settle down and go back to being interesting, which he often has been. In the meantime I'd sooner see us put up with him.

Subject: RE: Open Letter to Max
From: Emma B
Date: 24 Oct 06 - 04:30 PM

I agree entirely with McGrath. How many times has Shambles been constantly reminded that it is Max's site? Well fine! Is it to be handed over to a self-appointed (and frequently nameless) lynching mob now?

Subject: RE: Open Letter to Max
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Oct 06 - 04:41 PM

No emma, the lynching mob is anything but nameless. I could name the top ten now as could you. The reason they are easily named is because they are so secure in the knowledge they can act like a baying mob. Three of them at least are appointed mods on this site.

Something is rotten here but it sure isn't shambles.

Subject: RE: Open Letter to Max
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 24 Oct 06 - 04:42 PM

" Something is rotten here but it sure isn't shambles."

Everyone's farts stink

Subject: RE: Open Letter to Max
From: GUEST,Russ
Date: 24 Oct 06 - 04:52 PM

The Guest Bashing in this thread seems a bit half-hearted.

Not like the old days.

Russ (Permanent GUEST)

Subject: RE: Open Letter to Max
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Oct 06 - 06:02 PM

That's because the behaviour that some take public objection to is being carried out by some members and some mods.

Subject: RE: Open Letter to Max
From: Seamus Kennedy
Date: 24 Oct 06 - 06:07 PM

My 2 cents - I'm in complete agreement with GUEST Bemused, and I'm 100% behind Shambles to post what he likes.
If ya don't like it, don't read it, and don't respond to it.
Some of you folks just can't do that, can you?

Seamus

Subject: RE: Open Letter to Max
From: Azizi
Date: 24 Oct 06 - 06:38 PM

It seems to me that we are sliding down a slippery slope if a member of this forum is banned simply because some other members consider him or her to be annoying.

Subject: RE: Open Letter to Max
From: Bill D
Date: 24 Oct 06 - 06:39 PM

Seamus....but the import of most of Shambles posts IS to make certain points TO both members and management. Otherwise, why make them? He is trying to get others to do something, and arguing for a certain standard of thinking & behavior & attitude & 'rules' (or lack of rules). He is calling into question the basic operations of the forum. Is it so startling that people responded when he was inserting comments into many threads and repeated them endlessly? There is now a certain limitation imposed to what he can do, but even that is work to follow and enforce.........

I see the thrust of your comment, but I and many others do NOT think anyone should have the privilege to distract the forum this way, even if 'technically' we could say nothing. It is not an easy issue, but in the last analysis, it IS up to management...and finally, to Max.

We, as they say, shall see what happens.

Subject: RE: Open Letter to Max
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Oct 06 - 06:52 PM

but I and many others do NOT think anyone should have the privilege to distract the forum this way, even if 'technically' we could say nothing. It is not an easy issue, but in the last analysis, it IS up to management...and finally, to Max

And MANY more of us have no problem with shambles. The same old top ten who have OCD when it comes to him should take a break from the 'net.

I take it then that you think the mods calling for him to be banned are acting out of line. Like you say it is max's decision. They have no place to try and influence it.