Does Grant Baynham ever tour in the US?

Subject: Does Grant Baynham ever tour in the US?
From: SharonA
Date: 24 Oct 06 - 06:08 PM

I attended a songwriters' critique session here in southeastern Pennsylvania USA last week, and one of the songwriters told me that my writing style reminds him of Grant Baynham's. To my everlasting shame, I'd never heard of Grant Baynham, so of course I came to Mudcat to learn! Now I see that I had been paid a great compliment, as Mr. Baynham is by all indications a great lyricist and humorist.

After reading some of his lyrics posted here, I must say that I do share his fondness for wordplay! However, no one will ever write accolades about my guitar-play the way the do about Mr. Baynham's!!

I checked the gig schedule on his website (www.grantbaynham.com) and I see that he was in Canada earlier this month, but can anyone tell me if he ever plays gigs in the US? I must see and hear this man at work. Please tell me I don't have to wait for his next trip to Canada, or take a trip across the Pond myself, to do it!

Sharon

Subject: RE: Does Grant Baynham ever tour in the US?
From: skipy
Date: 24 Oct 06 - 06:12 PM

Wow, if you where told that then that is something indeed!
and he is a wonder person to!
Skipy

Subject: RE: Does Grant Baynham ever tour in the US?
From: Scrump
Date: 24 Oct 06 - 06:13 PM

Grant is indeed an ace guitarist - I was gobsmacked when I saw him earlier this year, as I had no idea just how brilliant he was until then.

Subject: RE: Does Grant Baynham ever tour in the US?
From: SharonA
Date: 24 Oct 06 - 06:37 PM

If he's an Ace guitarist, I guess that would make me a Joker guitarist.

:^)

Subject: RE: Does Grant Baynham ever tour in the US?
From: GUEST,Hilary Spencer (QuickSilver)
Date: 24 Oct 06 - 07:03 PM

Grant and I (QuickSilver) made a lightning visit to Canada at the end of September which was intended to be the start of a three week tour of North America taking in Michigan Illinois New York State Pennsylvania and Maryland as well as Ontario and Alberta. Sadly, although we toured almost identical gigs last year with a US work visa we were, this year deemed 'not culturally unique enough'(!?) - the major criterion for touring in the States - and the visa was denied without enough time left to appeal before we were due to fly out. Grant was, understandably, unwilling to risk working over there without the requisite work permit and so basically our tour was stuffed, we had to cancel the US gigs and could only apologise profusely to all the fans and venue organisers who were as upset and inconvenienced as we were. So I'm very sorry that you missed Grant's amazing CULTURALLY UNIQUE guitar technique and brilliant songs and hope you will get in touch with me at [e-mail] to subscribe to QuickSilver's email list and we'll be glad to keep you informed of any developments in future. Hilary

Subject: RE: Does Grant Baynham ever tour in the US?
From: GUEST, Tom Bliss
Date: 24 Oct 06 - 07:52 PM

That's a crying shame, Hilary.

I gather other top UK folky acts are suddenly also no longer welcome in the USA :-(

I really I can't see what the US authorites think they're gong to gain by this. Certainly not any improvement in their 'homeland security' - but certainly another dent in that once shiny nation's image on this side of the pond.

When one thinks of the loyalty and support we've given to them over the years... (sigh).

Grant is, indeed, an amazing player and a smashing chap to boot (uk expression - doesn't mean kick - though one does get a terrific kick out of his playing)!

Let's hope they have a change of heart soon.

All the best to you both

T

Subject: RE: Does Grant Baynham ever tour in the US?
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 24 Oct 06 - 07:53 PM

I hope Grant's already written a song about not being sufficiently culturally unique for the US!

Kitty

Subject: RE: Does Grant Baynham ever tour in the US?
From: Dartford Warbler
Date: 24 Oct 06 - 08:07 PM

The USA's loss and the rest of the world's gain.

USA....0    REST OF THE WORLD...1

Subject: RE: Does Grant Baynham ever tour in the US?
From: SharonA
Date: 24 Oct 06 - 08:40 PM

So much for the "land of the free"... We're not even free to hear some touring folksingers because some stuffed-shirt bureaucrat thinks they all sound the same?!?!?

This is awful. To which official in which US government office cubicle do we would-be audience members need to write to complain?

Subject: RE: Does Grant Baynham ever tour in the US?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 25 Oct 06 - 03:47 AM

I think I would at the very least have called Quicksilver very unusual if not unique (this is English understatement).

Subject: RE: Does Grant Baynham ever tour in the US?
From: GUEST, Tom Bliss
Date: 25 Oct 06 - 03:58 AM

I can't help wondering why 'cultural uniqueness' should be necessary in the first place. Is there some additional issue about protecting the jobs of US musicians or something(?!) Surely that criterion can't be applied when people like Eric Clapton tour the USA?

Does the British government ask the same question when people want to play over here? I surely hope not!

Subject: RE: Does Grant Baynham ever tour in the US?
From: Anglo
Date: 25 Oct 06 - 04:16 AM

Hilary & Grant did a concert for us (Old Songs, near Albany NY) on their last tour of the US. Very jolly, as well as virtuosic. I am disgusted that the US government saw fit to turn them down.

Subject: RE: Does Grant Baynham ever tour in the US?
From: Scrump
Date: 25 Oct 06 - 05:12 AM

"Not culturally unique enough"?!

Grant is a one-off if ever there was one (and so is Hilary for that matter! And I mean that in the nicest possible way folks! :-))

(And the US jobsworth's expression seems to imply there are degrees of uniqueness, which I would dispute. Either something is unique, or it isn't, IMO.)

As others have said, it's their loss (sorry US Mudcatters who were deprived of a treat!)

Subject: RE: Does Grant Baynham ever tour in the US?
From: Marmite
Date: 25 Oct 06 - 05:26 AM

They've now done the same thing to Les Barker!!!!!! If Les isn't unique who the heck is?

Subject: RE: Does Grant Baynham ever tour in the US?
From: Scrump
Date: 25 Oct 06 - 05:53 AM

I can imagine Les being refused a permit on the grounds of being too culturally unique ;-)

But once again it's sad to hear of this state of affairs. Who makes these decisions as to the 'cultural uniqueness' of non-US artists? Are there guidelines published? Are the artists suditioned by a 'cultural uniqueness' panel? I think we should be told (if only so that in the unlikely event I should ever tour the US I could take appropriate steps to ensure 'cultural uniqueness' at the audition).

Yes, I'd like to hear Grant's song about it too! :-)

Subject: RE: Does Grant Baynham ever tour in the US?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 25 Oct 06 - 07:19 AM

You are joking - Les Barker not culturally unique?

I suppose the next thing will be Sid Kipper isn't, either... God help the Americans if they want an airbase at Justnear Trunch....

I wonder if this could be got round if an English entity paid a UK performer to play at a US venue, then the UK performer would be doing business in not with the US and maybe entitled to do it on a B2 visa.

If some US entity then paid the English entity, that could be dressed up as copyright royalties, and since the USA permits source licensing the collecting societies could not block it....

Just a thought: over to experts on US visa requirements next.

Subject: RE: Does Grant Baynham ever tour in the US?
From: Anne Lister
Date: 25 Oct 06 - 11:28 AM

The problem seems to be that the US Government (either Homeland Security or INS or both) seem to think that you can *stop* being "culturally unique", in Les's case. Not quite sure how that happens, unless there has been a sudden upsurge in cardiganned poets in the US?

I think this aspect of the thread probably deserves its own title, because if it affects Grant (and therefore Hilary) and Les who knows which British artist is going to be affected next. Could be Martin Carthy, could be Jez Lowe, could be me, could be anyone.

What has worried me for some time is that it seems to be mostly the UK that has trouble with performing visas for the US - or am I wrong, and other countries are experiencing the same thing? I know when I discussed it with a representative for Swedish music at the San Diego Folk Alliance he said that the Swedes had had no problems at all, at a time when some of us here were already feeling the cold wind of bureaucracy.

Anne

Subject: RE: Does Grant Baynham ever tour in the US?
From: GUEST, Tom Bliss
Date: 25 Oct 06 - 11:45 AM

Good point Anne - see new thread. T

Subject: RE: Does Grant Baynham ever tour in the US?
From: GUEST, Tom Bliss
Date: 25 Oct 06 - 11:47 AM

Sorry - I'm not so good at this m'larky. Should have made a blue thing, yes?

UK folkies not welcome?

Subject: RE: Does Grant Baynham ever tour in the US?
From: Bert
Date: 25 Oct 06 - 11:50 AM

How can he be "culturally unique", - He sounds like SharonA.

*BIG FIENDISH GRIN*

Seriously though, that means he must be bloody good.

Subject: RE: Does Grant Baynham ever tour in the US?
From: r.padgett
Date: 25 Oct 06 - 05:20 PM

We aint culturally unique in our own country either when it comes to money!

What on earth is going on??

Ray

Subject: RE: Does Grant Baynham ever tour in the US?
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 25 Oct 06 - 05:32 PM

It's a bit worrying if Les Barker isn't culturally unique. Someone must have sent in the clones! Has anyone seen them, or are they hiding under the camouflage nets?

Kitty

Subject: RE: Does Grant Baynham ever tour in the US?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 25 Oct 06 - 06:03 PM

Yes, I think Les could work with that.

Let's have a Mudcat chorus.

One, two, three....

"I've got an occasional visa
Some days it's a half-open door
Some days I nearly get in
Then I'm not so unique, any more....

Subject: RE: Does Grant Baynham ever tour in the US?
From: Marmite
Date: 26 Oct 06 - 07:56 AM

Hey Richard! Very good!

Subject: RE: Does Grant Baynham ever tour in the US?
From: SharonA
Date: 26 Oct 06 - 01:57 PM

Awwww, Bert, you're very sweet! (But then, who didn't know that?)

I agree with Marmite: nice work, Richard. But being the punster I am, I can't help singing it as "I just don't look unique-ed anymore." *wry smile*

Seems to me that if such well-known UK artists as Les Barker and Grant Baynham had been allowed to tour the US and are now not allowed to, it's an indication that something has changed... but is it the policy or the personnel making the decisions about granting the visas?

At any rate, I guess that USA now stands for Unique Singers are Anathema.

Subject: RE: Does Grant Baynham ever tour in the US?
From: Singing Referee
Date: 27 Oct 06 - 09:50 AM

I wonder how much of it is due to someone over there getting wind of the anti-Bush content of some of Les's material, which of course Hilary is also involved with via Mrs Ackroyd?

The WMD are over there!

Subject: RE: Does Grant Baynham ever tour in the US?
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 27 Oct 06 - 05:30 PM

Anti-Bush? Really? How could I not have noticed? (It's worth following Jack Campin's link in the not welcome thread, though!)

Kitty

Subject: RE: Does Grant Baynham ever tour in the US?
From: Anne Lister
Date: 27 Oct 06 - 05:50 PM

I would be very surprised indeed if the relevant officials in the INS had taken the trouble to check out Les's material, and even more surprised if they'd taken notice of his sometime band members. The received opinion as to why it's all changed is that the visas are being handled by the Californian INS office now instead of Vermont, and that could account for quite a lot.

Anne

Subject: RE: Does Grant Baynham ever tour in the US?
From: GUEST,Diandancingwater
Date: 11 Nov 06 - 12:06 PM

Grant & Hilary are about as UNIQUE as they come!!! The powers that be should have their heads examined.

Subject: RE: Does Grant Baynham ever tour in the US?
From: Ferrara
Date: 11 Nov 06 - 02:34 PM

If you read the other thread, you'll see that the US immigration bureaucracy is so slow that applications have to be gotten in way ahead of time. They also require reams of supporting documentation. It was recommended on that thread that performers get an agent who is familiar with the whole tedious process, and start very, very early.

It wasn't clear whether the performers who have been rejected had followed those guidelines. What seems like "well ahead of time" to a normal person may be "way too late" to an INS bureaucrat. I suspect the INS is where they put government employees who are too dumb to work in the mail room in any other agency.

Funny. I discovered Grant Baynham just 2 days ago when I followed a link from the "Couldn't-Getaway Tavern 2006" thread. I spent about 2 hours on his web site, laughing my head off at lyrics, mostly. Happy to find this thread.

Subject: RE: Does Grant Baynham ever tour in the US?
From: Anne Lister
Date: 11 Nov 06 - 06:05 PM

Hi, Ferrara - yes, the performers who have been rejected have indeed followed all the guidelines and have an impressive track record of having been accepted before. Which is why we're concerned now. Grant works with Hilary Spencer - Hilary came over many, many times with Artisan, so she definitely knows the ropes. Les Barker and Andy Irvine have also been rejected on the same grounds of lack of cultural uniqueness, so we're forced to conclude somehow they've STOPPED being culturally unique.    Huh???

Incidentally in terms of time, there's a limit on how far ahead you CAN apply for a P3 visa, but it seems that the delay on processing applications is longer than this limit - you can see how that might be an additional problem.

Oh - and on the question of agents - many of us who have toured in the US up until now have tended to set up our own tours as there aren't too many agents who want to deal with overseas acts and deal with all the paperwork for smallish scale operators like us. However even the good guys who were prepared to submit applications on behalf of performers who might or might not be on their books formally (for a fee, of course) are now unwilling to do this because of the tougher attitude from the INS.

It does seem as if some of the goalposts/hurdles/masses of red tape have been shifted recently, hence the worry in both threads.

Anne

Subject: RE: Does Grant Baynham ever tour in the US?
From: Ferrara
Date: 11 Nov 06 - 09:51 PM

Tabster thanks for the info. I think. I am not surprised that this is the direction of things. Sad, angry and frustrated but not surprised. I try not to rant on line but this is consistent with other patterns of the past 5 or 6 years. One can only wait and hope that it isn't a permanent change.