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Folklore: Seen any Guys this year?

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THE GUY FAWKES SONG


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greg stephens 26 Oct 06 - 10:54 AM
WFDU - Ron Olesko 26 Oct 06 - 11:11 AM
greg stephens 26 Oct 06 - 11:57 AM
jojofolkagogo 26 Oct 06 - 01:52 PM
Little Robyn 26 Oct 06 - 02:28 PM
Bernard 26 Oct 06 - 03:02 PM
Dave Earl 26 Oct 06 - 03:02 PM
Metchosin 26 Oct 06 - 03:15 PM
WFDU - Ron Olesko 26 Oct 06 - 03:16 PM
WFDU - Ron Olesko 26 Oct 06 - 03:18 PM
Ebbie 26 Oct 06 - 03:20 PM
Banjo-Flower 26 Oct 06 - 03:43 PM
Liz the Squeak 26 Oct 06 - 03:48 PM
Metchosin 26 Oct 06 - 04:06 PM
GUEST 26 Oct 06 - 04:09 PM
Mrs.Duck 26 Oct 06 - 05:18 PM
greg stephens 26 Oct 06 - 05:42 PM
Ref 26 Oct 06 - 07:48 PM
Rowan 26 Oct 06 - 10:27 PM
Liz the Squeak 27 Oct 06 - 02:27 AM
Valmai Goodyear 27 Oct 06 - 03:43 AM
Flash Company 27 Oct 06 - 05:19 AM
Liz the Squeak 27 Oct 06 - 05:25 AM
greg stephens 27 Oct 06 - 05:55 AM
JulieF 27 Oct 06 - 06:11 AM
Dave'sWife 27 Oct 06 - 09:48 AM
greg stephens 27 Oct 06 - 10:05 AM
greg stephens 27 Oct 06 - 10:08 AM
Scrump 27 Oct 06 - 11:50 AM
Splott Man 27 Oct 06 - 11:50 AM
Mo the caller 27 Oct 06 - 12:07 PM
GUEST, Topsie 27 Oct 06 - 02:51 PM
Mrs.Duck 27 Oct 06 - 02:52 PM
Jos 27 Oct 06 - 03:18 PM
Anne Lister 27 Oct 06 - 05:56 PM
Gurney 28 Oct 06 - 05:33 AM
Liz the Squeak 29 Oct 06 - 01:59 AM
Dave'sWife 29 Oct 06 - 04:42 AM
Paul from Hull 29 Oct 06 - 12:30 PM
Cats 29 Oct 06 - 01:44 PM
terrier 29 Oct 06 - 03:52 PM
Ref 29 Oct 06 - 08:21 PM
Mo the caller 30 Oct 06 - 08:19 AM
JulieF 30 Oct 06 - 08:35 AM
Valmai Goodyear 31 Oct 06 - 06:52 AM
Splott Man 31 Oct 06 - 07:56 AM
Keith A of Hertford 31 Oct 06 - 09:31 AM
Dave'sWife 31 Oct 06 - 09:48 AM
manitas_at_work 31 Oct 06 - 10:40 AM
Geoff the Duck 31 Oct 06 - 11:19 AM
McGrath of Harlow 31 Oct 06 - 12:50 PM
GUEST 31 Oct 06 - 01:23 PM
Little Robyn 31 Oct 06 - 01:44 PM
McGrath of Harlow 31 Oct 06 - 04:00 PM
GUEST 01 Nov 06 - 06:41 AM
GUEST 01 Nov 06 - 06:51 AM
McGrath of Harlow 01 Nov 06 - 11:23 AM
GUEST,Catesby 01 Nov 06 - 12:06 PM
Cats 01 Nov 06 - 12:23 PM
Cats 02 Nov 06 - 04:09 PM
Valmai Goodyear 03 Nov 06 - 04:36 AM
GUEST,... 03 Nov 06 - 04:50 AM
Desert Dancer 03 Nov 06 - 10:38 AM
Cats 03 Nov 06 - 01:25 PM
Mo the caller 03 Nov 06 - 02:18 PM
McGrath of Harlow 03 Nov 06 - 07:16 PM
*#1 PEASANT* 04 Nov 06 - 02:05 AM
Dave'sWife 04 Nov 06 - 05:17 AM
Little Robyn 05 Nov 06 - 04:33 AM
Geoff the Duck 05 Nov 06 - 07:56 AM
gnomad 05 Nov 06 - 07:47 PM
Rowan 06 Nov 06 - 01:15 AM
Geoff the Duck 06 Nov 06 - 06:03 AM
Keith A of Hertford 06 Nov 06 - 06:44 AM
Splott Man 06 Nov 06 - 09:19 AM
*#1 PEASANT* 29 Sep 09 - 09:15 PM
*#1 PEASANT* 19 Oct 11 - 11:02 PM
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Subject: Folklore: Seen any Guys this year?
From: greg stephens
Date: 26 Oct 06 - 10:54 AM

I have just seen my first this year, today in Stoke-on-Trent(England). An intriguing new design(new for round here, anywhere).In recent years Guys have been made by stuffing garments with newspaper(or other old garments). The heads have generally been carrier bags, stuffed with something, and a very badly drawn rudimentary face on a piece of paper, stuck on the bag.
   The one today, however, was interesting in three ways. Firstly, the proprietor was a little girl, they are normally boys. Secondly, the body was not specially made, but was a very large teddy bear, dressed up in kid's clothes. The face was I felt the most interesting cultural development. Echoing the general takeover of this time of year by American-style Halloween marketing, the girl had used a red plastic devil mask to stick onto the teddy-bear. So quite a mixture of the Halloween and Guy Fawkes elements.
    What's going on down your way?


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Seen any Guys this year?
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 26 Oct 06 - 11:11 AM

"Guys"??


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Seen any Guys this year?
From: greg stephens
Date: 26 Oct 06 - 11:57 AM

A Guy is an effigy(nominally of Guy Fawkes) displayed by kids in England in the period leading up to November 5, in the hope of collecting money. Normally mounted in a gocart/pram or similar for speedy getaway from rival gangs, irate shop-keepers etc. The custom (like all Bonfie Night activities) is under threat from massive promotion of American style witch/devil/scream/pumpkin Halloween stuff.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Seen any Guys this year?
From: jojofolkagogo
Date: 26 Oct 06 - 01:52 PM

Well, greg, interesting indeed.

You know, I was ashamed to see all the Christmas (oh no, not the "C" word !!!) stuff in our shops BEFORE halloween - something that has not occurred, at least down here in London/Essex ever before. Well not to my knowledge anywayup !.

But, now you mention it, I have not seen ANY guys at all, I have noticed that the custom is fading somewhat, and I usuall see one, or maybe if I am lucky, two, but have not see ANY.

Some customs die, and some live on, let's be thankful that FOLK lives on !!!!!!!!!

Anyway, we have managed to resurrect the Plough Monday theme, mainly at Whittlesey Strawby ...

Loved the question from WFDU Ron - I take it he IS from the US of A and that they do not have anything like it over there ...

Jo-Jo


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Seen any Guys this year?
From: Little Robyn
Date: 26 Oct 06 - 02:28 PM

There haven't been Guys in New Zealand (at least where I live) for years. We always made one when I was a kid and I helped my daughter get into it 15-20 years ago but kids today seem to dress up and do the Trick or treat thing instead. The shops are full of Halloween costumes and party gear. I guess it's a similar tradition but I prefer the Guy Fawkes songs and the fireworks.

A loaf of bread to stuff his head
A pound of cheese to choke him,
A bottle of beer to wash it down
And a jolly good fire to roast him.
Guy, Guy, Guy, penny for the Guy
If you haven't got a penny, a ha'penny will do,
If you haven't got a ha'penny, God bless you!

I always thought Guy Fawkes had the right idea - let's get rid of parliament. Could things get any worse without it?
Robyn


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Seen any Guys this year?
From: Bernard
Date: 26 Oct 06 - 03:02 PM

I'm sure things could get worse without Parliament... think of all those unemployed politicians with nothing to do... at least with Parliament we've a fair idea of where they are and what they're doing!!

Politics:

Poly = many
Ticks = parasitic insects

Last time some kids asked me for a 'penny for the guy' they accepted my penny, but wouldn't give me the guy...


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Seen any Guys this year?
From: Dave Earl
Date: 26 Oct 06 - 03:02 PM

Go to Lewes in Sussex to see how it should be done. Nov 4 this year (cos 5th is Sunday)

Please to Remember the 5th of November
Gunpowder treason and Plot.........

Dave


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Seen any Guys this year?
From: Metchosin
Date: 26 Oct 06 - 03:15 PM

My daughter and I have the honour of making the Guy this year for my cousin's Guy Fox bonfire. We're sticking to the tradtional stuff that we did as a kids. The base is an old dress dummy, but the rest is newspapers and old clothing and the head, a slightly deflated basketball that's been lying in the dog run for about ten years. I'm hoping his head might explode.

My cousin resurrected the family tradition a few years back, in honour of a beloved uncle, who along with his love of a good pint, his loud call in the middle of festivities of, " IS EVRYBODY HAPPY?!!! made Hallowe'en extra special for us when we were small, by importing and incorporating his very English traditions into our yearly quest for candy.

I think we make the neighbours very nervous as we don't light the bonfire and fireworks on Hallowe'en, which is the usual ritual here on the west coast of Canada.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Seen any Guys this year?
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 26 Oct 06 - 03:16 PM

No, we do not have anything like it.

We do have a cup of tea each year to remember the Boston Tea Party.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Seen any Guys this year?
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 26 Oct 06 - 03:18 PM

then again, we do have a big party on the 4th of July! We won that one!


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Seen any Guys this year?
From: Ebbie
Date: 26 Oct 06 - 03:20 PM

:), Ron


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Seen any Guys this year?
From: Banjo-Flower
Date: 26 Oct 06 - 03:43 PM

Metchosin Just to be pedantic it's not "Guy Fox " but Guy Fawkes the only man to enter the British Parliament with honest intentions
And to answer the original question Greg no I have not seen a Guy for a couple of years now as we seem to be becoming over run by trick or treaters instead, another tradition vanishing

Gerry


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Seen any Guys this year?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 26 Oct 06 - 03:48 PM

We have a variation in east London... the smallest kid or best actor gets dressed in old clothes and a mask, slumps down in a corner or against a wall and his mates berate passers by for a 'penny' although they expect rather more and if you try to give them a penny, they'll like as not spit at you or call you names. It's frowned upon here now as 'demanding money with menaces'... the same fate a London Borough tried to put on 'trick or treating'...

LTS


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Seen any Guys this year?
From: Metchosin
Date: 26 Oct 06 - 04:06 PM

well Banjo-Flower, sometimes the childhood portion of my brain just trips into phonetic mode, when when I put my adult brain on hold. It gives pedants something with which to justify their existence. LOL


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Seen any Guys this year?
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Oct 06 - 04:09 PM

Outside a railway station was always the best pitch in town. You used to be able to buy lurid coloured (very rough) cardboard masks that most guys donned. Haven't seen them in the shops either.

But the place is whizz banging with fireworks already.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Seen any Guys this year?
From: Mrs.Duck
Date: 26 Oct 06 - 05:18 PM

I would not expect to see guys before halloween at least. Obviously the American idea of Halloween is now becoming popular over here and probably appeals more to kids than Guy Fawkes does now the health and safety folk have taken the fun out of it. I can honestly say Halloween used to come and go without acknowlement until the last ten years but we now get quite a few trick or treaters turning out and shops are cashing in big time.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Seen any Guys this year?
From: greg stephens
Date: 26 Oct 06 - 05:42 PM

This one I saw is a bit early, but in fact it is half term so the kids I have time. I actually saw two today, one of the old style(as described in my first post) and the newstyle one with the red plastic mask. Surprised nobody else has seen one yet.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Seen any Guys this year?
From: Ref
Date: 26 Oct 06 - 07:48 PM

For the sake of bewildered Americans, Guy Fawkes was a Catholic who plotted, with several other prominent Anglo-Catholics, to blow up the houses of Parliament, killing the King and Parliament. They came extremely close to succeeding and imposing a Catholic dictatorship on England. This was also the goal, later and unrelated, of those who pushed the cause of "Bonnie Prince Charlie." Why people now romanticize these people is beyond me. The freedom that we now possess, tainted though it sometimes be, is the result of these brigands FAILING to destroy one of the most socially advanced governments of its time.

If you want to know what a "Guy" looks like, check out "V For Vendetta." V always wears a Guy mask.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Seen any Guys this year?
From: Rowan
Date: 26 Oct 06 - 10:27 PM

Cho;
Guy, Guy, Guy,
string him up on high!
String him on a lamp post
and there let him die!
Holler boys, holler boys,
God save the King!
Holler boys, holler boys,
God save the King!

And I haven't seen a Guy anywhere in Australia now, for at least 40 years. They used to be a feature of street bonfires but then everybody got rid of firecrackers and started worrying about bushfires.

Cheers, Rowan


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Seen any Guys this year?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 27 Oct 06 - 02:27 AM

The south east coast of Britain still retains a lot of its Bonfire Societies - groups of men who would raise money for one huge firework display in their town. They build and burn a huge effigy in Battle although this has caused some controversy in the past, over their choice of 'Guy'. It's usually some political personage or general 'Celebrity Twit'. The last year I went, it was Margaret Thatcher, complete with handbag (shows how long ago that was!!).

These days they raise money for local charities but the fireworks are some of the best along the south coast.

LTS


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Seen any Guys this year?
From: Valmai Goodyear
Date: 27 Oct 06 - 03:43 AM

If you are interested in Sussex Bonfire, go to http://www.lewesbonfirecouncil.org.uk/index.html
which is the site run by the (now) six Bonfire Societies in Lewes, East Sussex, UK.

You hardly ever see Guys in Lewes apart from the magnificent moving one displayed by Cliffe Bonfire Society when they are selling programmes on the streets in the weeks approaching The Fifth.

Don't attempt to drive through Lewes on Saturday 4th. November this year as the roads will be closed from about 4.00 pm onwards. Parking is impossible.

Valmai
Lewes


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Seen any Guys this year?
From: Flash Company
Date: 27 Oct 06 - 05:19 AM

Remember as a kid being asked by one lady to sell her the clothes our Guy was dressed in as they were better than the ones her husband wore to work.

FC


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Seen any Guys this year?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 27 Oct 06 - 05:25 AM

Mind you, now you mention it, I've not seen Guido for a while...

Guido dances with Albion Morris and due to a family committment (and he should have been committed) we missed going to Belgium to see them perform.

For those interested, Guido means wide.

LTS


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Seen any Guys this year?
From: greg stephens
Date: 27 Oct 06 - 05:55 AM

Bit worrying that nobody else has seen one yet. Is the old custom dying out? I would hate to think that it is going to vanish completely, to be replaced with children in capes and plastic witch hats and devil's tridents bought at Wooly's, saying "Tricj or treat" because that's what they do in American TV programmes.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Seen any Guys this year?
From: JulieF
Date: 27 Oct 06 - 06:11 AM

Personaly I'm not particularly bothered by Guy Fawkes night but can report that I saw at least two guys on the outskirts of Sheffield on Sunday lunchtime.    I'm more concerned about the loss of the proper halloween tradition of 'Guising'   When I was growing up we dressed up. wnet round peoples houses with our turnip lanterns and performed our party pieces to be rewarded with fruit and nuts and sweets.

I think it fairly local to Scotland - possibly the north of england as well but when I moved to South Yorkshire when I was 12 in 1975 the tradition did not seem to be there.

Currently we get trick and treaters.   I will give fruit and sweets but not money and I must admit that I've resorted to Pumpkins for lanterns as you don't get as many blisters hollowing them out and I do a faily good chili pumpkin soup.

I am assuming that trick or treating came across to America with the Scots or perhaps other North Europeans. Does anyone know of similar traditions in other Northern European countires ?

J


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Seen any Guys this year?
From: Dave'sWife
Date: 27 Oct 06 - 09:48 AM

Ref - I don't believe people are romancticising Guy Fawkes when they make and display the effigies. The whole point of the celebration is to toss him onto a fire and celebrate the fact that he did NOT succeed.

In the Eastern part of the US, Guy Fawkes day complete with effigy roasting is still celebrated in some towns. My family is from NYC but my due to my Dad's posting ( he was a cop), I spent part of my childhood about 80 miles North of the City in predominently Protestant town which had an annual Fox Hunt, Guy Fawks day and a few other unusual observances. The Guys there weren;t merely burned, before tossing them on the fire, they were often stabbed, kicked, beaten and otherwise abused.

I wonder if there is any connection to Guy Fawkes Day and the American tradtions of Homecoming bonfires at High Schools and colleges. Homecoming celebrations can be held anywhere from early october to mid-november depending upon what part of the US you are in. Usually, an effigy is made of a member of the opposing football team to be played the next day and it is similarly tortured before being tossed on the bonfire.

Any thoughts?


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Seen any Guys this year?
From: greg stephens
Date: 27 Oct 06 - 10:05 AM

JulieF: the Guising you are referring to would have been largely Scottish in the recent centuries, I am sure. Most of the old Halloween customs in England transferred to Guy Fawkes night(Nov 5) and Mischief night(Nov 4). Certainly, all the bad behaviour/going round at night occurred on Nov 4 in north lancashire and the Lakes till fairly recently. Now it is drifting towards the nights leading up to halloween...which is of course where it all started, before Guy Fawkes chose Nov 5 for his escapade.
   Incidentalyy, in relation to the licensed bad behaviour aspect of the time of year: the fireworks let off by naughty boys has been going since around Oct 1 in Stoke.
    Anybody else spotted any interesting signs of seasonal activities?


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Seen any Guys this year?
From: greg stephens
Date: 27 Oct 06 - 10:08 AM

JulieF: another point. You mention turnip lanterns, as opposed to the American style pumpkin. Would your "turnip" be a Scottish term for what I would call a swede? An English turnip would be a bit small to make a lantern from, I would have thought.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Seen any Guys this year?
From: Scrump
Date: 27 Oct 06 - 11:50 AM

Yes, I like the idea od burning effigies of politicians instead of Guy Fawkes.

Come to think of it, why waste time and effort making effigies of them, when the real thing is available?

:-)


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Seen any Guys this year?
From: Splott Man
Date: 27 Oct 06 - 11:50 AM

I've seen just one Guy in Cardiff outside a Lidl supermarket. But the shops are swamped with stuff for Hallowe'en, which seems to have become a catch-all horror-vampire-zombie-ghost-etc festival rather than the single night it once was.

On Guy Fawkes, I remember vaguely from my school history that Nov 5 wasn't initially celebrated until many years later when Parliament or the King decided the natives were getting restless and needed a revival of the autumn fire festival of yore what had been banned by Cromwell.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Seen any Guys this year?
From: Mo the caller
Date: 27 Oct 06 - 12:07 PM

In the 70s, when my children were at school in mid-Cheshire some children went Souling on Oct 31st. I don't know if this was a genuine survival of a Cheshire custom, or due to their teacher teaching the song
A soul a soul a soulcake
please good Missis a soulcake
One for Peter one for Paul
One for him who made us all.

In my London childhood it was 'Penny for the Guy'


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Seen any Guys this year?
From: GUEST, Topsie
Date: 27 Oct 06 - 02:51 PM

Battle bonfire

I suggest clicking on 'History' for background information.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Seen any Guys this year?
From: Mrs.Duck
Date: 27 Oct 06 - 02:52 PM

I remember when we lived in Stalybridge (Cheshire/Greater Manchester the kids came to door singing ' we come a cob calling for bonfire night' Traditionally they were after stuff to burn on the bonfire but latterly expected money and would have been pretty put out if we'd given them a bit of 5 by 4.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Seen any Guys this year?
From: Jos
Date: 27 Oct 06 - 03:18 PM

a few more


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Seen any Guys this year?
From: Anne Lister
Date: 27 Oct 06 - 05:56 PM

Seen several Guys here in the Cwmbran/Pontypool/Newport area of S E Wales, some more inventive than others.

We reversed tradition last Halloween and my husband dressed up (as an Ogron, for all Dr Who fans) so that when the little varmints knocked on the door they had a rather scarier experience than they had been expecting and some ran off without their treats. (all together now .... awwwwwww).

Anne


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Seen any Guys this year?
From: Gurney
Date: 28 Oct 06 - 05:33 AM

Ref, I never thought of the ceremony as romanticising Guy Fawkes. He is burned on the bonfire! More a reinforcement of his fate of hung-drawn-quartered I would suspect.

I've also long suspected that bonfire night is just an excuse for a party and a good fire, which is what 'bonfire' means. Treacle Parkin and roast potatoes, and beer for the men. Like the Druidic festival that it MAY have replaced.

Like Little Robyn, I've never seen a Guy in Auckland in the 31 years I've been here, and we are not allowed bonfires. They call it Fireworks Night and the Fun Police are trying to stop it.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Seen any Guys this year?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 29 Oct 06 - 01:59 AM

Guising - used to happen until a few years ago in London when a couple of groups (Graund Order of Guisers then later London Guise) processed in an area in disguise (or guise) and played or sang in a pub. Occasionally we got a beer out of it, sometimes we collected money for a charity, usually we just had a nice walk in funny clothes and a good session at the end.

The tradition of guising (dressing up in disguise to play tricks on neighbours) goes back many hundreds of years, before the colonies were colonised by Britons. Seems as if the tradition was taken over to the US, was "improved" and has now made its way back. The connection with Samhain and the 'Day of the Dead' when the souls of those who died crossed over and the old year died, seems to have brought out the horror element and the two have combined.

A New Year celebration and a change from the monotony of hard labour, a chance to settle old 'scores' and have a few beers in a convivial fashion has now changed to obtaining money with menaces, plastic uniformity and a 3 week build up.

I will be out and about in disguise.. I'll be disguised as a responsible member of society on her way to church for the inauguration of the new priest... he's picked a fine time to join us!

LTS


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Seen any Guys this year?
From: Dave'sWife
Date: 29 Oct 06 - 04:42 AM

I believe I must be the only American (albiet an irish-American) in this thread!

Incidentally the Guy Fawkes mask from V is a brisk seller here in the USA this year so we will actually have some Guys riunning around on Halloween which just seems WRONG.

Here in Los Angeles, The Mexican Day of The Dead is almost as big as Halloween in my neighorhood but then, we also have a gay pride parade on halloween down Santa Monica Blvd patterned after the greenwhich Village Halloween parade in NYC. Lots of holiday-mixing going on here.

In San Francisco and a few other cities, some people are trying to revive Krampus Night or Krampasnact as another excuse to dress up, party and be naughty. It's the eve before St. Nicholas Day. Is Krampus Night popular in the UK?


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Seen any Guys this year?
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 29 Oct 06 - 12:30 PM

Its been a few years (4 or 5 maybe) since I seen a Guy here in Hull, though I do recall an odd blend of traditions about 8 or 9 years ago, as best I recall, as a group of kids of mixed ages, escorted by an adult, dressed in home-made costumes rather than the plastic shop-bought stuff, carried a Guy with them, slung between the shoulders of the two tallest kids!

Dave'sWife,
I have never even HEARD of Krampus Night, what is it?


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Seen any Guys this year?
From: Cats
Date: 29 Oct 06 - 01:44 PM

There was a notice in our parish magazine that the local bonfire society would be around the village collecting for Guy Fawkes night with Guys from the week starting 30th October. I have photos of my father and uncles making the torches for the Lingfield Bonfire [Surrey] from the 1950's as we were a bonfire society family there, so I was really pleased to move onto Bodmin Moor in Cornwall to find a Bonfire Society still going strong in the village. As a matter of interest there is an electician in Bodmin, Cornwall called G Fawkes and he really is a descendant of Guy Fawkes.... a bit unnerving when you turn up for work on 5ht November to find his van parked outside!!


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Seen any Guys this year?
From: terrier
Date: 29 Oct 06 - 03:52 PM

I've never heard of KRAMPUS either,but I've just looked him up on the net. Pretty scary I'd say. Off to practice my catechism.
Sorry I can't do clickies yet.


http://home.earthlink.net/~wasellin/Krampus.html


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Seen any Guys this year?
From: Ref
Date: 29 Oct 06 - 08:21 PM

Dave's Wife and Gurney:

I understand that the TRADITION of the Guy is not in his favor. Some few of the posts above, though, seemed to be wishing he'd succeeded, or that a modern-day version would succeed. The little bit at the beginning of V seemed to me to miss the point as well, though the film was about creative anarchy. Fawlkes wasn't an anarchist, just a participant in an attempted coup. Sorry to come across all humorless.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Seen any Guys this year?
From: Mo the caller
Date: 30 Oct 06 - 08:19 AM

Dave's Wife said
"It's the eve before St. Nicholas Day. Is Krampus Night popular in the UK?"
No, we don't celebrate either.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Seen any Guys this year?
From: JulieF
Date: 30 Oct 06 - 08:35 AM

Greg - yes I mean the big turnips. I think we just called them all turnips when I was growing so perhaps the swedes just weren't as common then.    I do remember my mother making a rather dinky one out of a marrow but she was rather good at that sort of art thing.

Will be attacking the pumpkin tonight and making soup. have bought sweets and apples for the kids who come round but I've got a feeling that both Cat and I will be out.

Also found the most wonderful song to learn from the Scots Women ( Live from Celtic Connections 2001 ) album but will be struggling to learn it before tomorrow.

j


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Seen any Guys this year?
From: Valmai Goodyear
Date: 31 Oct 06 - 06:52 AM

Cats, I'm fascinated to hear of a Bonfire Society in Cornwall. Could you give me more details?

I belong to the Cliffe Bonfire Society of Lewes, and will be happy to send anyone brave a photo of me and my daughter taken by Doc Rowe between processions last year.

The Cliffe's website is http://www.cliffebonfire.com/ and contains a lot of good pictures. We have about a thousand members and are the largest of the six Societies in Lewes.

Valmai (Lewes, Sussex, UK)


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Seen any Guys this year?
From: Splott Man
Date: 31 Oct 06 - 07:56 AM

I'm looking forward to going to Lewes this year for the first time. As a kid I used to go to Brockham Bonfire.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Seen any Guys this year?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 31 Oct 06 - 09:31 AM

All you bigots may have missed Divis Sweeney's version of the Lewes festival.

"The presence of the Orange Order, wherever it appears, seems to denote a certain backward-looking culture. A visit to Lewes, in east Sussex, on November 5 each year is possibly the closest that anyone is likely to get to going back 400 years.

The religious intolerance on display is the same as four centuries ago. The event is dismissed as a harmless bit of fun, with the burning of the pope's effigy and general ridicule of the Catholic church.

But it will be interesting to see how the revellers react this year when Catholic Joe O'Keefe arrives with his supporters to make a peaceful protest.

Will they be greeted in a peaceful way or, as one particularly vicious letter to O'Keefe suggested, "put on the bonfire" themselves? It is easy to be tolerant when the other side doesn't show up.

The activities in Lewes are the closest thing in Britain to the annual march to Drumcree church in Northern Ireland. The same intolerant religious attitude is on display at both venues, while the dress and behaviour appear to come from a bygone age."

You should all be ashamed of yourselves.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Seen any Guys this year?
From: Dave'sWife
Date: 31 Oct 06 - 09:48 AM

Krampus is one of the companions of St. Nicholas. Krampus Night is December 5th and is much like Mischief Nightern revivals of Krampus Nacht here in the USA, however, have been embraced as exucsed to hold big garish disco parties full of wild abandon and excessive drinking, drugging etc etc.

Here is a link to some info on Krampus and his cohorts. I warn you, he's scary looking!


Krampus & Companions of Saint Nicholas


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Seen any Guys this year?
From: manitas_at_work
Date: 31 Oct 06 - 10:40 AM

You should be glad it's only effigies being burned. In Queen Mary's time it was heretics ie. protestant priests. This is the people of Lewes' revenge.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Seen any Guys this year?
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 31 Oct 06 - 11:19 AM

Saw a Guy outside an Aldi supermarket a few days back. Unfortunately I didn't spot it until I was heading rapidly into the door and missed it. By the time I came out, I had forgotten they were there.
The proprietor seemed to be a girl and it was sat in a supermarket trolley which was probably chained to all the other trolleys.
Mind you, Guy Fawkes was a Yorkshireman, so wouldn't waste a pound coin to free his trolley from the row.
Quack!
GtD.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Seen any Guys this year?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 31 Oct 06 - 12:50 PM

Saw one yesterday outside Lidls, with three small boys.

No point in rerunning the troubles of the "reformation" over again here - too many butchered dead on both sides. Lewes celebrations have a pretty nasty aspect to them, but my feeling is the best way is to encourage people treat it as a bizarre joke rather than confront it straight on. Anti-Catholic prejudice isn't right now the same kind of threat in England as it is in Northern Ireland or Scotland.   

A lot of our folk traditions probably have some pretty unsavoury aspects if you dug back into their history, but time can often leach out that stuff. It's rather like the way time can change a pretty unsavoury dead body into a fascinating and even beautiful fossil.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Seen any Guys this year?
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Oct 06 - 01:23 PM

In my time in England late 1950s through the 60s I never heard Halloweve mentioned, certainly the 5th of November was celebrated with kids begging beside their Guys, and this started in early October.
Halloweve was always celebrated in Ireland all 32 counties, NoV 5th was never celebrated.
Do they still burn the Pope in Lewes?.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Seen any Guys this year?
From: Little Robyn
Date: 31 Oct 06 - 01:44 PM

'Do they still burn the Pope in Lewes?.'
Did you read the rest of this thread GUEST?

It's now 1st Nov here in NZ and we didn't have a single Trick or treater!
The bowl of jelly snakes and toads is untouched (except for the one I tried - not my taste really).
Robyn


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Seen any Guys this year?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 31 Oct 06 - 04:00 PM

"Halloweve" - that's an ubnteresting variant. Means the same as "Halloween" of course (which really should be written "Hallowe'en" I suppose, but never is), but in more modern English. However I haven't come across it before.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Seen any Guys this year?
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Nov 06 - 06:41 AM

Halloweve used in Ireland to describe the eve of All Hallows.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Seen any Guys this year?
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Nov 06 - 06:51 AM

Wouldn`t a present day Guy Fawkes be more than welcome and this time may he have a successful blow-up.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Seen any Guys this year?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 Nov 06 - 11:23 AM

I'm not too sure about that. I mean, Osama didn't exactly get a rapturous welcome when he hit the big time.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Seen any Guys this year?
From: GUEST,Catesby
Date: 01 Nov 06 - 12:06 PM

Osama went for innocent people.
There ain't an innocent politician.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Seen any Guys this year?
From: Cats
Date: 01 Nov 06 - 12:23 PM

The bonfire society in Rilla Mill is a group of local people who organise the bonfire. They form themselves in to the bonfire society and plan the bonfire, the collection of the money and the guys, plan events throughout the year, etc. I have only been in the village for 2 years but it is well organised and has been done like this 'for years'. They don't dress up as you do in Lewes but now we have a Wassail and come old 12th night a mummers Play, you never know....


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Seen any Guys this year?
From: Cats
Date: 02 Nov 06 - 04:09 PM

The Bonfire Society have just been round and brought the guy with them. He stands about six feet high, has been made in the image of Guy Fawkes and had his hands tied together so he could not get away. He was brought round on the back of a small truck, sitting amongst barrels. It has to be a truck as tonight they go to the outlying hamlets - which include us! A brilliant Guy. Well done to them.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Seen any Guys this year?
From: Valmai Goodyear
Date: 03 Nov 06 - 04:36 AM

Cats, thanks. This is fascinating.

Each of the Lewes Bonfire Societies blows up a huge effigy of someone or something which has attracted disapproval during the year: usually a tyrant or bully of some kind. The subject of the tableau, as it's called, is kept secret until it actually appears in procession on the streets or at the firesite of the individual society. In the past we have blown up, amongst countless others,Idi Amin, Margaret Thatcher, Ayatollah Khomeni,John Major, the Scots, Russia and China, Slobodan Milosevic, George Bush, road developers, Bill Clinton, dinosaurs, Tony Blair, Greene King the brewers, Gordon Brown, local councillors, Osama bin Laden and Ian Paisley. Every year we also blow up Guy Fawkes and the Pope who was in charge at the time of the Lewes Martyrs, Paul V: not the current Pope, nor Popes in general, but a single specific historical figure. The main focus of attention is the tableau.

About a quarter of the evening is taken up with wartime Remembrance as each society processes to the War Memorial, solemnly discharges fireworks, plays The Last Post and lays a wreath. This is very moving.

Bonfire is a fire festival, a festival of the dead, and a public protest against various forms of tyranny. It's also extraordinarily stirring.

Valmai (Lewes)


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Seen any Guys this year?
From: GUEST,...
Date: 03 Nov 06 - 04:50 AM

The only time I went to Lewes I went as a member of the general public rather than part of the procession. I went to the Cliff bonfire as I had been told it was the best.
The public were herded like sheep by large 'bouncers', and kept behind lines. I was cold and wet. I knew I was near the bonfire but couldn't get near enough to get any warmth from it. The members of the public in front of me were taller than me so I saw nothing of the tableau. That night stands out in my memory as one of the most disappointing and miserable experiences ever.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Seen any Guys this year?
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 03 Nov 06 - 10:38 AM

In Tucson, we have our version of the Mexican "Dia de los Muertos", which has evolved into festivities that run from Nov. 2 culminating with a large procession, on Sunday night, this year. (Of course there are many other individuals and organizations that recognize the day in many ways.)

I've not been involved previously; this year I plan to actually go and see it. I'm getting to a stage of life where I have more dead to remember...

All Souls Procession 2006

~ Becky in Tucson


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Seen any Guys this year?
From: Cats
Date: 03 Nov 06 - 01:25 PM

As a child in Lingfield, Surrey, we had bonfire processions, on a much smaller scale than Lewes though. There were 2 or 3 societies and each had a procession to a different bonfire. The one we were involved with always ended up at 'The 'Rec'


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Seen any Guys this year?
From: Mo the caller
Date: 03 Nov 06 - 02:18 PM

Well an MP is now saying we should scale down the bonfire night celebrations.
I went outside just now and it smelt really smokey.

A friend of mine went on holiday somewhere in Asia and came home with a tale of watching from his hotel window someone washing clothes in a lake, someone else peeing into it, then someone drawing water from it.

We've stopped doing that to our drinking water, but don't care about the air we breathe.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Seen any Guys this year?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 03 Nov 06 - 07:16 PM

I went outside just now and it smelt really smokey.

And it's not Guy Fawkes Night till Sunday.

I get fed up with the way people have taken to letting off fireworks for weeks before and after - I don't mind keeping the cats in one night, but it's not fair when it spreads out the way it has. They get terrified.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Seen any Guys this year?
From: *#1 PEASANT*
Date: 04 Nov 06 - 02:05 AM

Check out my extensive pages- music even....

The Most comprehensive guy fawkes page in the universe


A whole page on guys...see celebration ritual....

Those who know will be tuned in to Rocket FM for live broadcast of the proceedings in Lewes. They celebrate Saturday afternoon and evening.

Listen to the bonfire celebrations in Lewes sussex live-music is great

I run the only bonfire society in North america....our celebration is on the 4th tomorrow
402 Nancy Ave.
Linthicum, Md.
21090 USA
outside of baltimore....

All welcome we start at 4:30 Keg of Mchenry loads of food, fireworks torches...bonfire....traditional chants and all the customs.

FREE

Guy Fawkes celebrations took place in the USA from the earliest times biggest centers New York and Boston but other costal ports as well.

Check out my pages on the topic

a href="http://www.bcpl.net/~cbladey/guy/html/usaplot.html">Guy Fawkes day in the usa


Remember remember the fifth of november gunpowder treason and plot. I see no reason why gunpowder treason should ever be forgot!

Check out our publication- the only complete book of variations of the fifth of november chant/bonfire prayer....

Conrad


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Seen any Guys this year?
From: Dave'sWife
Date: 04 Nov 06 - 05:17 AM

Well, all you in Lewes can have your boring ole bonfires and pope-burnings. I've decided to join the Krampus Night movement and promote wild disco dancing and partying on December 5th. I'm sure I'll find some sympathetic folks amongts my neighbors in West Hollywood (aka San Francisco South or AKA The West West Village)


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Seen any Guys this year?
From: Little Robyn
Date: 05 Nov 06 - 04:33 AM

Well Guy Fawkes day is almost finished here, in NZ and I didn't see a single guy.
But the pyro tradition is alive and well - we went to the beach at Napier, Hawke's Bay and there were mini bonfires everywhere and fireworks galore, as well as the really big ones booming out further up the beach, where the organisers were charging people to go in by the soundshell. We just stayed where the crowds weren't too bad and had a lovely time watching. I didn't buy any fireworks myself this year - usually I spend $30-40 but I saved (and spent that much on a birthday tea instead!) I must be getting old!
Robyn


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Seen any Guys this year?
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 05 Nov 06 - 07:56 AM

Plot night here (UK) is being spoiled by the fireworks on sale. Most of the old fireworks used to sparkle and glitter with a fizzing noise (Except for the bangers and jumping jacks, but they have all but disappeared). The new breed are sodding great expensive boxes which are essentially mortar shells. They go up high and then off with a BANG which shakes your windows in the next village.
The sods were setting them off at some time later than 1.00AM this morning.
Anyway, it's 5th today and we are off to see a display about tea time.
Quack!
Geoff.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Seen any Guys this year?
From: gnomad
Date: 05 Nov 06 - 07:47 PM

Well now, lots of fireworks seen, it's now 00.35ish on Nov 6th here, and I haven't seen one guy, only one fire come to that. But I have now seen fireworks from a boat at sea, and that adds something.

The best I ever saw were done by the Italian army for the Deaf Winter Olympics [late 70s early 80s maybe], mortar type fireworks, little expense spared, and a big snow-filled valley to make the echoes really count, even a brass band to fill in the gaps between explosions. W..ow!


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Seen any Guys this year?
From: Rowan
Date: 06 Nov 06 - 01:15 AM

Almost at the end of Monday 6th November and not a sausage; no bonfires (bushfire season), no fireworks (they're illegal), no guys ('cept for us guys) and not even a song.

Cheers, Rowan


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Seen any Guys this year?
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 06 Nov 06 - 06:03 AM

We enjoyed the bonfire and firework display. The display was on the opposite side of a lake from where the people were and worked very well. We did have a tree between where we stod and where the fireworks were being set off. Didn't know where they were going to be until they started (it was dark) but it was an interesting effect seeing the sparks and explosions through the gaps in the leaves. The high fliers were above the tree top.

Before the bonfire was lit, the "local radio" roadshow had a Guy Competition with kids getting chocolates as prizes. I was bemused that the DJ asked what the Guys were called. One was named Dave, another Bernard, one was Slash. As far as I am concerned, they should all have been GUY.
Quack!
GtD.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Seen any Guys this year?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 06 Nov 06 - 06:44 AM

Did John O'Keefe and supporters turn up at Lewes to demonstrate?
How were they received?


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Seen any Guys this year?
From: Splott Man
Date: 06 Nov 06 - 09:19 AM

I didn't see any protesters there, day or evening.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Seen any Guys this year?
From: *#1 PEASANT*
Date: 29 Sep 09 - 09:15 PM

We have a competition for Guys bring yours! Our annual Guy Fawkes Celebration November 7 Baltimore 402 Nancy Ave. 21090 rain or shine starts at 4 More information on the Blog

http://fifthofnovember.blogspot.com/

Conrad


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Seen any Guys this year?
From: *#1 PEASANT*
Date: 19 Oct 11 - 11:02 PM

The celebration of the Center for Fawkesian Pursuits Bonfire Society is as usual open to all and free includes keg of beer dinner bonfire fireworks, torchlit procession

Check out our blog for details all welcome rsvp essential

http://fifthofnovember.blogspot.com/

Conrad


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