INFO/Opinions:Taylor,Larivee,Collings,et al.

Subject: RE: INFO/Opinions:Taylor,Larivee,Collings,et al.
From: Steve in Idaho
Date: 05 Dec 01 - 08:31 PM

Geez - I found a Laravee to try out - Unsure of what model it is but the guy said the sale price is around $1100 - down from $1600.00? That sound right?

All I was looking for was a humidifier!

My Luthier said I shouldn't use a humidifier on Old Mose. He says it is an old guitar and humidifiers should only be used on new ones - and mine has been raised on wood heat (little subtle encouragement to play well or "The Axe" brought out a shiver of fear) - and Mountain Home has an annual rainfall of about 10 inches in a good year. So I don't know - he wants to look at the one I've opted for and will render an opinion.

Well well well - now what!

Steve

Subject: RE: INFO/Opinions:Taylor,Larivee,Collings,et al.
From: 53
Date: 05 Dec 01 - 08:45 PM

i'm real confused about humidifiers, i've had my takamine ltd90 for 10 years and i've had my gibson j-40 for 21 years and i've never used a humidifier in either one and now i bought a taylor big baby and that's all they talk about is a humidifier, maybe it's just the manufacturer that suggests it, need more info. BOB

Subject: RE: INFO/Opinions:Taylor,Larivee,Collings,et al.
From: GUEST,G
Date: 05 Dec 01 - 09:39 PM

Subject: RE: INFO/Opinions:Taylor,Larivee,Collings,et al.
From: UB Ed
Date: 05 Dec 01 - 10:55 PM

Leej, I've gone back over this thread twice; the Larivee was twice the cost of a Taylor. Doesn't seem right. May not have an apples to apples comparison...

Ed

Subject: RE: INFO/Opinions:Taylor,Larivee,Collings,et al.
From: Steve in Idaho
Date: 06 Dec 01 - 01:46 PM

Since this thread has the name Larivee in it I'll add one more - Morgan sound familiar? Morgan was the head luthier at Larivee and was the only other person, besides the family, to be able to declare an instrument ready to go out for sale. He is apparently making his own - all hand made - just him. They are a bit more spendy $2200 - but I'll find out if it is as good as they say tomorrow. They have three of them - all spruce tops but the back and sides are Koa, Rosewood, and one other. All Ebony fretboard, bridge, pins, - ought to be interesting at the least.

Damn Rick - I was pretty careful and had Jan pretty OK with $900 for the Tacoma - but $2200 may be a bit of a stretch -

I know!!! I could get it for her for Christmas! Since she is learning piano I'd have to play it, you know - break it in and all - until she mastered the piano and then opted for the guitar - - - What do you think??

Steve

Subject: RE: INFO/Opinions:Taylor,Larivee,Collings,et al.
From: 53
Date: 06 Dec 01 - 06:54 PM

go for it. BOB

Subject: RE: INFO/Opinions:Taylor,Larivee,Collings,et al.
From: Steve in Idaho
Date: 07 Dec 01 - 08:27 PM

The Morgan's were gorgeous in real life - but they certainly didn't sound as well as I thought they should for $2500. The Larivee blew it away forty ways from Sunday on sound, sustain, and articulation.

I also played a DR-20 Tacoma. I was really disappointed in it. Had a great neck, but fingered a bit stiff, and certainly wasn't playing on air like its little cousin I played at Shaun's shop.

As for fit and finish none of them impressed me. For the money the Tacoma was the best. For sheer beauty of finish and workmanship the Morgan was gorgeous - although the top was not as nice and smooth as I thought it could be - maybe a little better sanding and another coat of clear? The Larivee had some little blems where the neck joined the body. Like the varnish didn't settle in right in a couple of small places on the underside. Either that or the neck had been reset after assembly.

Price wise the Larivee beat them all. The Tacoma DR-20 was $900 with case, the Larivee was $1200 with case and the Morgan was $2400 with case. They didn't have a mirror to look inside so have no idea what the top bracing looked like. What I could see looked very nice on all of them. No glue sticking out or lack of finish issues of concern that Spaw had mentioned to look for.

Jan went with me and I spent about two hours playing the three. Jan thought that Old Mose sounded as good as any of them - the only exception may have been the Larivee with a better bottom end boom. And I haven't played Mose yet with the Buzz Feiten work done. I'll get him back tomorrow afternoon so will have an opportunity to compare them.

Steve

Subject: RE: INFO/Opinions:Taylor,Larivee,Collings,et al.
From: 53
Date: 07 Dec 01 - 08:34 PM

old mose sounds like my old j-40 you just got to love her. BOB

Subject: RE: INFO/Opinions:Taylor,Larivee,Collings,et al.
From: catspaw49
Date: 07 Dec 01 - 08:53 PM

Well...........If you didn't mind the neck on the Larrivee, you should be okay with the Blueridge and I'm tellin' you, THAT guitar is a BUY!!!!

Spaw

Subject: RE: INFO/Opinions:Taylor,Larivee,Collings,et al.
From: Steve in Idaho
Date: 08 Dec 01 - 12:14 AM

Sure starting to sound like it Spaw - If Old Mose is what I think - I probably won't buy a second guitar. I can't see buying anything that is not as good as what I have - and the price I'd have to apparently spend to improve is out of my league.

I'm going to wait and see what Mose sounds like Feitenized. My Luthier tells me that it really makes a difference - helps develop the bottom end, and Mose already had that, and - how did he say that? Wakes them up a bit? I'll see.

Although it was fun to see all of the guitars, and to play them, I just wasn't impressed. Too weird. Maybe I got my hopes up too high - Sure going to be good to have Mose home though - - I'll be beating on it tomorrow night for a fact!!

One thing for sure - I could tell the difference on the woods for backs and sides. I definetely like Mahogany the best. Koa was a bit mushy and the Rosewood was pretty good - just not the solid sound that Mahogany gave. For pure crisp sound it exceeded the others. The Spruce tops were all very similar and the Morgan may have been weak on the bottom end due to a bad string - the grain was a bit wider - the others had a lovely mix of close grain and medium grain blend in the top. So the midrange was as good as the bass. I learned a lot through this and think I am still going to keep looking. Mose is so beat up that I ought to be ashamed of myself. We'll see - have to try a Blueridge again and this new DR 20 Tacoma coming in to Shaun's shop.

Steve

Subject: RE: INFO/Opinions:Taylor,Larivee,Collings,et al.
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 08 Dec 01 - 12:19 AM

Norton, I was pretty interested in the Blueridges until I blew the budget on the Gibson I've mentioned in the new thread. Still love to play a couple though.

Love the name "Old Mose" (probably 'cause I have a friend who IS "old Mose" (Scarlett that is). My Gibson has been christened "Agnes"....'cause Heather's birth mother was Agnes Gibson.

Rick

Subject: RE: INFO/Opinions:Taylor,Larivee,Collings,et al.
From: catspaw49
Date: 08 Dec 01 - 01:05 AM

Steve, that was a great post because you got yourself into a position to hear for yourself and "sense" the difference in woods. No matter how beautiful they are or how much we try to describe the qualities they possess here, nothing beats hearing these sometimes striking and sometimes subtle differences. Always need to throw in the bit about apples and oranges and not comapring a mahoghany Larrivee to a koa Martin or whatever, but you had yourself a great experience......so far.

Mose may be better and more wonderful than before, but then anyone who already owns a guitar of a lifetime still needs a spare.......right? Tell that to Mose who will be flattered and agree and then to your wife who will have you comitted.

Spaw

Subject: RE: INFO/Opinions:Taylor,Larivee,Collings,et al.
From: Steve in Idaho
Date: 08 Dec 01 - 11:46 AM

Spaw - That's funny! Jan read it and went - "Yeah right." Then - "Who's Mose?" Mose has always been "Steve's Mossman" or from Jan - "Your Mossman." I don't know about committted but I know she has been wondering why in the heck I would want another guitar. But Jan is convinced I can play a rock and make it sound good - (Nothing like an adoring Fan Club :-)).

Rick - Blew your budget? Ahem? This the same person who was saying in another post about paying off something or another?? Too funny!!

On the way home yesterday Jan was asking me why in the heck I would want another guitar. I could, after all, only play one at a time. Then she goes, "Oh, I get it." And I was trying to figure it out and the look on my face must have set her in motion - She says, "Horses." I really had to laugh then. I have two horses and Jan has six. Now why would anyone need eight horses?? Because they are beautiful and we love them each for their respective qualities. When they are new borns for their potential and exuberance, and as they grow for their abilities as they develop, then as mature adults for the steadiness they display - dependability - and the sheer beauty and strength they embody. Ever ridden a well trained cow or trail horse? If you've played a beautiful old guitar that was broken in right and used a lot - then you have the perfect analogy.

So I'll be getting me another guitar - just going to have to play a lot of them to find the magic one.

BOB - Thanks for your support - you don't mince words and I certainly like that!


Steve

Subject: RE: INFO/Opinions:Taylor,Larivee,Collings,et al.
From: kendall
Date: 08 Dec 01 - 03:55 PM

I do have to admit that I have heard some very fine guitars besides the Taylor. Moonchild has a nice Larrive, Midchuck has a nice Collings, and a guy in Florida has a nice Collings. He wouldn't let me play it, but, it sounded good to me. I was surprised at how much Ricks old Martin had to offer. It sure doesn't belong in the back seat. Jeds' guitar is a sweetheart too.

Subject: RE: INFO/Opinions:Taylor,Larivee,Collings,et al.
From: GUEST,Riley Stokes
Date: 19 Jan 02 - 08:27 PM

Being a neophyte net grazer, I'm not at all sure of what I have stumbled into here. I just plugged in "Larivee OM" into Google and all these opinions popped up. Very interesting. I have to say, though, that I hear a lot of apples-to-oranges comparisons. When you sit down to compare guitars against each other, you are also comparing sizes, woods, strings (light, medium, new, worn-out), action setup, price range.... Even the relative age of "new" guitars is important. One may have just arrived at the shop and be only a few weeks from all its components having been separate slabs of wood. It still has internal tensions that will kill the sound for a while. And on top of that, guitars are just plain individuals, which is one reason we're fascinated by them.

Concerning price and price range, a high percentage of guitars made by individual luthiers (those who know what they're doing) and the top-end small shop makers like Collings and Bourgeois, etc., will be great guitars. They have the advantage of being made of choice woods and are the beneficiaries of a dozen decisions, large and small, made by the luthier or luthiers along the way. They are tweaked, in other words, and have every chance of being great instruments. But that doesn't mean you can't find equally great-sounding guitars in other price ranges, and from the big factories like Martin and Taylor--or the even bigger factories in Asia. Very often there's the serendipity factor; a certain happy combination of pieces of wood come together in a certain way and you've got a great instrument, no matter whose name is on the headstock.

All this comes into play when you compare guitars. So when you go away from a comparison session in which you've had a chance to play only a few instruments, and you're thinking, well, I like Taylors better than the new Gibsons and Guilds and... you're doing both the makers and probably yourself a disservice. A really good time to comparison-play guitars is when you're not looking to buy one. You just stop in at the showroom once in a while and pick around on stuff. But if you make that a practice, don't be surprised someday if a particular guitar seems to jump off the wall and into your arms and says "Buy me!" The best thing to do then is walk out... and sneak back in a few days and try the thing again, and it still speaks to you, ask yourself: Is buying this guitar worth straining the family budget and therefore my marriage? If the answer is yes, you may have found yourself a new guitar.

Riley Stokes

Subject: RE: INFO/Opinions:Taylor,Larivee,Collings,et al.
From: catspaw49
Date: 19 Jan 02 - 08:35 PM

I think you'll find all of that rings true here Riley and has been said about a hundred times before around here. These threads were simply meant to be places to log specific info and all.

Welcome to the 'Cat......You'll find an active guitar community here too with loads of opinions and everything from openminded to very biased folks....which makes it fun. Enter the word guitar in the filter box and set the refresh for 3 years and see what you get. Like any folk session, lots of guitar and other instrument talk too.

Glad to see you here.

Spaw

Subject: RE: INFO/Opinions:Taylor,Larivee,Collings,et al.
From: GUEST,Fortunato -- That ain't hominey grits.
Date: 20 Jan 02 - 08:03 AM

Welcome to the 'cat Riley. Your opinions will be noted and appreciated here. If you followed 'spaw's suggestion to search threads, by now you know that we've discussed woods and glues and small shops and big discount stores, large luthiers and small. Hell, we've discussed picks to the nth degree and finishes and inlays and so on. There are young and old here, professionals and neophytes. Guitar builders and sellers and players sign on here. Some are guesst and you won't know who unless you know them personally. Some names are household words, most are not, but whoever they are their opinions are welcome and often the least experienced of us has much to contribute and shake up the 'old hands'. It's a great commnunity. Regards, Fortunato

Subject: RE: INFO/Opinions:Taylor,Larivee,Collings,et al.
From: Rolfyboy6
Date: 20 Jan 02 - 12:24 PM

Mindful of Spaw's instructions to enter a guitar maker's name in the search/filter box and set the time box for three years,and wanting info about one of my guitars, I entered Gallagher and three years. Result: Nothing. I tried variations and got nothing.

So should I start a new thread seeking information about my well loved G-45 (and other Gallghers)? The G-45 is baldly listed on Gallaghers site (at the bottom of the "G" model list) without description, pictures or apparent interest. I've e-mailed Gallagher twice over the last year without response. Maybe there's nothing to say about a "bottom-of-the-line" mahogany/spruce dreadnaught.

Subject: RE: INFO/Opinions:Taylor,Larivee,Collings,et al.
From: catspaw49
Date: 20 Jan 02 - 12:34 PM

Try Gallagher in the forum and DT search Rolfy. A lot of names didn't have individual threads and Gallagher has come up....But if you want to start a thread re: opinions on Gallagher...Do it! Several Gallagher owners around here. Matter of fact, start one with two names in the title that would be good to have a single commentary place on....

Info/Opinion-Gallagher&Doherty Guitars

Spaw

Subject: RE: INFO/Opinions:Taylor,Larivee,Collings,et al.
From: Midchuck
Date: 20 Jan 02 - 12:41 PM

Rolf, try going to the Flatpick-L Archives and running a search under "Gallagher." But allow plenty of time to read the results. You might want to search under your specific model #.

Peter.

Subject: RE: INFO/Opinions:Taylor,Larivee,Collings,et al.
From: michaelr
Date: 20 Jan 02 - 03:38 PM

Norton1 - you mentioned getting the Buzz (unfortunate name) Feiten tuning system installed. I'd like to know if anyone has had this done, and how they feel about it.
In a recent issue of Guitar Player, renowned luthier Rick Turner says that while the System improves in-tuneness of the open strings and lower positions, capoing or playing up the neck is a no-no. (Maybe I'll start a thread on the subject.)

I bought a used Lowden O10 for a grand, and I love it!! Mahogany back and sides, spruce top, no-pin bridge - it all adds up to one of the sweetest sounding guitars I've ever played. And the sound is quite distinctive from the Martin/Taylor/Collings crowd.

Michael

Subject: RE: INFO/Opinions:Taylor,Larivee,Collings,et al.
From: Rolfyboy6
Date: 20 Jan 02 - 05:12 PM

Thanks Spaw and Midchuck. I did as you suggested and found some stuff about Gallagher guitars, but only three post in either place which talked about the Gallagher G-45. And those were of the 'gee whiz, I love it' type. Most comments are about the Doc Watson model and the G-70.

Subject: RE: INFO/Opinions:Taylor,Larivee,Collings,et al.
From: catspaw49
Date: 21 Jan 02 - 12:03 AM

Sorry Rolfy.....I think dwditty still has his 71 he bought a few years ago.

Spaw

Subject: RE: INFO/Opinions:Taylor,Larivee,Collings,et al.
From: Steve in Idaho
Date: 21 Jan 02 - 03:39 PM

michaelr,

The beauty of the Feiten tuning is that capoing is so easy. With the guitar in tune with itself there appears to be no changes necessary as I move the capo around the neck area. I've gone as high as the 10th fret with no audible difference in being in tune. Before I had to retune every time I changed where the capo was located.

It does require a special tuner though - a Korg DT - 7.

Riley - Welcome to the Cat. Searching for a new guitar has been an ongoing thing for me over the past 20+ years. It wasn't until I hit this space in time that I started figuring out what sound I liked and what woods came close enough to make that sound. I'm having one built for me. I know the tree the Mahogany is coming from and the luthier and I have been friends for many years. After all of the playing and researching I have a pretty good idea of what I want now. You are right about having one jump in your lap and saying "ME ME ME" as that is what happened with myself.

Steve

Subject: RE: INFO/Opinions:Taylor,Larivee,Collings,et al.
From: michaelr
Date: 22 Jan 02 - 09:19 PM

Norton1 - could you provide more info on the Korg DT-7 tuner? How is it different from others?
Cheers, Michael

Subject: RE: INFO/Opinions:Taylor,Larivee,Collings,et al.
From: Steve in Idaho
Date: 23 Jan 02 - 03:56 PM

Here's a link (Clik) that explains what it does. I believe you could plug Korg DT-7 into any search engine and find one.

The really high end Washburns are all coming from the factory with Buzz Feiten tuning now.

Hope this helps you -

Steve

Subject: RE: INFO/Opinions:Taylor,Larivee,Collings,et al.
From: Spotty
Date: 23 Jan 02 - 05:21 PM

Erm, me again, erm sorry for bein tedious.... Nothing does everything quite like a Lowden... Erm for me ,anyway, and I've had a few over the years. More than my dear wife cares to remember!! Erm, Lowden is spelt L...O...W...D...E...N! I just love mine - sorry!!

Subject: RE: INFO/Opinions:Taylor,Larivee,Collings,et al.
From: GUEST,SlickerBill
Date: 24 Jan 02 - 03:58 PM

Interesting point from Norton1. I was guitar hunting and had it down to two Morgans; mahogany auditorium (slender neck, bright lively tone), or the concert (wider neck for fingerstyle, richer tone). couldn't decide. Happen to be looking around at Larivees, picked up the LO-5; sold. The only thing I'm finding with the Larry to watch is humidity. It's such a light construction that it reacts to humidity and temperature in quite a significant way. In southern Manitoba in winter that presents a challenge. In winter you just have to keep it in the case with the humidifier. Summers I keep it on the stand. Otherwise a terrific guitar. SB

Subject: RE: INFO/Opinions:Taylor,Larivee,Collings,et al.
From: Marion
Date: 22 Dec 02 - 08:52 PM

I recently saw an ad for Taylor that said: "You're right. It's probably too late to get into the rock and roll hall of fame. But it's not too late to give the world another cover version of Smoke on the Water."

Although Rick said way up at the top, "I've talked to literally hundreds of store owners over the last 10 years and the market these instruments are aimed at is one made up of University educated 45+ businessmen who remember their teen folkie years with fondness (and their beloved Harmony guitars) and are back in the market with a vengeance," I was surprised to see Taylor deliberately marketing themselves as a mid-life crisis instrument.

Marion

Subject: RE: INFO/Opinions:Taylor,Larivee,Collings,et al.
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 23 Dec 02 - 07:18 PM

Interesting.

No-one mentions Taylors being a bit sort of brash - like a bit twangy, and tizzy in the treble: very sort of country sounding. It was teh way I always felt about them, and I've seen some silly money paid here in teh UK for them - several thousands of pounds sterling (like up to about seven thousand, adn with the dollar as it is that's a lot of dollars) - and never really felt they justified it.

Now I know of two players who used to feel the same way, and just in the last few months both have gone and fallen in love with different Taylors. I havene't seent he instruments yet, just heard the stories.

Does anyone think Taylors are growing up a bit - less immediate impression and more maturity and soul in the sound?

Subject: RE: INFO/Opinions:Taylor,Larivee,Collings,et al.
From: GUEST,Sleepless Dad
Date: 30 Mar 05 - 04:32 PM

It looks like Taylors were well thought of a few years ago. I'm wondering if people still feel the same way ?

Subject: RE: INFO/Opinions:Taylor,Larivee,Collings,et al.
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 30 Mar 05 - 05:08 PM

Interesting to see this refreshed. One of the players who fell in love with a Taylor has just sold both his Taylors to buy a Gibson.

Subject: RE: INFO/Opinions:Taylor,Larivee,Collings,et al.
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Mar 05 - 07:44 PM

I bought my Martin D-18 in 1969 and have never thought much about buying another guitar ~ certainly not another wooden guitar.; (I've had plenty of daydreams about steel-body resonators I could never afford.)

For quite a few years, I quit playing in public, and gradually quit playing very much at all. Not only was I not in the market to shop for guitars ~ I wasn't even part of a "scene" with anybody else shopping for guitars (acoustics, anyway).

When I first poked my nose into the Mudcat a couple of years ago, I began encountering new and unfamiliar guitar brand-names for the first time, including all those mentioned in this thread title (and most of the others mentioned within the thread, too). The last time I was in touch (in the mid-1970s), Yamaha and Ovation were the newest "names."

I'm still not seriously considering a purchase, but I've become somewhat interested and a bit more knowledgeable about these newer high-end nameplates. A few months ago, while my one-and-only was at the luthiers for new frets and a neck reset, I started hanging out in guitar-store showrooms, just to be able to play a few hours a week.

While I was mostly interested in getting my hands on as many different resonators as possible, both wood-body and metal, I took the opportunity to play some nice wooden instruments too. The only one that really spoke to me was a Lowden; if I could possibly have afforded it (i.e., if I could have spent the price of a decent used car on a second guitar), I would gladly have grabbed that Lowden.

None of the other guitars I tried seemed at all special to me, not even the new Martins. Not even the Eric Clapton signature-model Martin, for that matter.

The Lowden that I played that day ~ sorry, I have no idea of the model number, which woods it was made of, etc., etc. ~ was different enough from my own good old Martin for it to make sense to me as an alternate instrument: much lighter, a little smaller, with a very different, brighter sound. Fantastic sound, in fact. Not to mention newer and shinier, too, of course.

But I'm happy with the one guitar I have. Some of the comments above, specifically those endorsing the sound of the mahogany body as opposed to rosewood, etc., make me feel better than ever about owning such a wonderful intrument. When I bought the D-18, price was the main consideration ($495, I believe, in 1969). I figured I was being smart not to spend extra money on ivory and mother-of-pearl (frills in which I still have no interest), but didn't realize that part of the price differential was due to the 18's mahogany construction, as opposed to the rosewood used for the pricier dreadnaughts. Now I'm pretty much convinced that mahogany, while chaper than rosewood, is not at all inferior, just different, and to some tastes (including my own), it's better.

Subject: RE: INFO/Opinions:Taylor,Larivee,Collings,et al.
From: GUEST,Sleepless Dad
Date: 30 Mar 05 - 08:01 PM

Yep - those D-18's are wonderful guitars. Sometimes I almost think I could be happy with just one guitar.

Subject: RE: INFO/Opinions:Taylor,Larivee,Collings,et al.
From: PoppaGator
Date: 30 Mar 05 - 08:20 PM

That was me, two posts ago at 7:44. Don't know why I was anonymous ~ I got in via the FRONT door (!!???!?)

Subject: RE: INFO/Opinions:Taylor,Larivee,Collings,et al.
From: Wesley S
Date: 31 Mar 05 - 02:02 PM

PoppaGator - I love my D-18 also. It's a 67 but I bought mine in 1969. Still have it too. I hope I'm able to pass it down to my son someday. But the guitar that gets the most action right now is a new Collings OM. Martin still makes some great guitars but for my tastes Collings has a more consistant product. I think being a smaller shop gives them the time and ability so produce a great guitar time after time. Right now it looks like Martin is caught up in trying to mass produce a lot of good guitars and Collings is willing to make fewer - but better instruments. But like the lady said who kissed the cow - "Everybodies got their own tastes".