BS: Acadian Descent

Subject: BS: Acadian Descent
From: Beer
Date: 01 Nov 06 - 06:09 PM

Curious to see how many members are of Acadian descent.
Me for one.
Beer

Subject: RE: BS: Acadian Decent
From: Beer
Date: 01 Nov 06 - 06:10 PM

Descent

Subject: RE: BS: Acadian Decent
From: bobad
Date: 01 Nov 06 - 06:14 PM

Most Acadians I know are pretty decent.

Subject: RE: BS: Acadian Decent
From: Bee
Date: 01 Nov 06 - 09:48 PM

The less decent ones are often more fun. ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Acadian Decent
From: Rapparee
Date: 01 Nov 06 - 10:34 PM

I've got a Stella Maris flag around somewhere.

Subject: RE: BS: Acadian Descent
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 02 Nov 06 - 09:02 AM

I've got a Maris Piper potato. Is that any help?
Quack!
GtD.

Subject: RE: BS: Acadian Descent
From: Snuffy
Date: 02 Nov 06 - 09:07 AM

And I've got a set of Acadianal tables

Subject: RE: BS: Acadian Descent
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 02 Nov 06 - 09:13 AM

I went down an arcade this morning, it was grand

eric

Subject: RE: BS: Acadian Descent
From: Scoville
Date: 02 Nov 06 - 10:31 AM

The less decent ones are always more fun, Acadian or not.

I guess we don't have many Acadians around here but we sure have Cajuns. Oddly I was looking up some stuff on Cajun music recently and kept running across a family with the last name "Bonsall". There are Bonsalls in my mother's family but they were Welsh (settled in Pennsylvania in the late 17th century; we're distant cousins of Joe Bonsall of the Oak Ridge Boys, who is a Philadelphian by birth). Obviously not the same Bonsalls, but now I wonder if these Bonsalls are the result of a misspelled French name or if a Welshman did in fact sneak into the woodpile at some point, since not all "Cajun" last names are French.

Subject: RE: BS: Acadian Descent
From: Ella who is Sooze
Date: 02 Nov 06 - 10:48 AM

I'm of Huguenot descent - (my French family side escaped France a few hundred years ago as they were chased out). One half of the family stayed here and were good (one half were 'wine merchants///aka pirates and were deported to Australia),

The other Huguenot family in my family line (there's two lots) were sail makers and saddle makers and settled in Kent.

I guess some of these could be conected to the Acadians in their flight from France?

Subject: RE: BS: Acadian Descent
From: number 6
Date: 02 Nov 06 - 10:53 AM

Cajuns are descended from Acadians Scoville. They are a result of the British Expulsion or deprotation (ethnic cleansing) of the French (Acadians as they were called) from Nova Scotia back in 1775. They were shipped to Louisiana.

A part of Canadian history that we (Canadians) are not proud of.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Acadian Descent
From: Paul Burke
Date: 02 Nov 06 - 10:58 AM

Bonsall is a village in Derbyshire, UK. In fact, it's where I live, and this view is just outside my front door. It's also a reasonably common Derbyshire surname. It's a mining area, so possibly some Derbyshire miner settled in Wales before his family had enough and decided to try Pennsylvania.

Subject: RE: BS: Acadian Descent
From: number 6
Date: 02 Nov 06 - 11:00 AM

I should also mention Cajun is derived from the word Acadian.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Acadian Descent
From: Dead Horse
Date: 02 Nov 06 - 11:47 AM

They were NOT shipped to Louisiana.
They were shipped out to all points of the globe, (many dying en route) and some managed to find their own way to La which was Spanish at that time, and other survivors joined them as time went on.
It aint the Canadians who should feel shame at that, its us bloody superior Brits who were to blame.
Queen Elizabeth has recently (last year I believe) sent an apology, as requested by a Cajun lawyer.
If I find the story I shall add a clicky thing......

Subject: RE: BS: Acadian Descent
From: number 6
Date: 02 Nov 06 - 12:02 PM

Well ... they were shipped somewhere. Many arrived or found themselves in Louisana. Yes many did scatter througout the world. Yes it was deportation by the British.

As I mentioned ... it is part of Canadian history (which it is) which we are not proud of (Nova Scotia was a British colony which New Brunswick was part of and this colony later became part of Canada) ... I did not say we Canadians are feeling shame.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Acadian Descent
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 02 Nov 06 - 12:11 PM

I've sometimes been curious though how it was that in Canada the French managed to retain their language and culture as a mainstream national element within Canada, with aspirations towards independence, but in Louisiana they got marginalised by the Anglos.

Subject: RE: BS: Acadian Descent
From: Dead Horse
Date: 02 Nov 06 - 12:18 PM

Read 'n weep

Subject: RE: BS: Acadian Descent
From: Beer
Date: 02 Nov 06 - 12:31 PM

Back when this all happened, the Acadians were known as great dyke builders. Manny of them were shipped to Wales as they needed these expertise. Since then they have assimilated and are part of the Wales culture. Where in Wales I don't know, but it must be along the coast. There are also pockets of Acadians in Australia, Prince Edward Island, New Brunswick and Newfoundland. Nova Scotia and of course Louisiana.

Subject: RE: BS: Acadian Descent
From: Dead Horse
Date: 02 Nov 06 - 12:36 PM

Also this being a more complete history.

Subject: RE: BS: Acadian Descent
From: Scoville
Date: 02 Nov 06 - 12:37 PM

Yes, I'm aware of all that, or I would not have brought up Cajuns in the first place. Will have to check out the Derbyshire thing. It was so long ago I don't know that we really know anything about that part of the family.

What percentage of Canada is French? Maybe the Acadians in Louisiana were simply overrun. It's a relatively small area and they would sort have been boxed in by Anglo/other-American settlers, in a not-so-desirable geographical area (i.e. swamps, alligators, and mosquitoes the size of Cessnas).

Subject: RE: BS: Acadian Descent
From: Scoville
Date: 02 Nov 06 - 12:39 PM

. . . should specify that what I meant by "not many Acadians" is that they're not Canadian-Acadians or re-Frenchified Acadians, since we're pretty far from both Canada and France. I actually have met Canadian-Acadians here but they were just visiting.

Subject: RE: BS: Acadian Descent
From: gnu
Date: 02 Nov 06 - 02:22 PM

Beer! Well, ba-god-damn eh! Je suis un demi-Acadian. LeBlanc-Melanson on my other's side. Goes back at least six generations.

Re the success of the French culture in Canada. In Quebec, they retained the Civil Code, etc, etc, etc, and there was a lot of them. In Acadie, they were tread upon right up until about 50 years ago... ask my mother... ask any Acadian. They have a vibrant culture, against all odds.

I live in Moncton, New Brunswick, which is about 35% Acadian and 35% Irish descent.

I won't lecture about the expulsion (BTW... the expulsion was 1755.) Anyone can Google that. Google Colonel Monkton (Monckton) and read about his systematic slaughter, his razing of properties, and other atrocities on the Rivers Petitcodiac and St. John and their tributaries. Oh yeah, he wasn't too awful friendly to some of the Natives either.

Just one more thing for those not aware... most Acadians are first and foremost Canadians and they don't like Quebecois.

Subject: RE: BS: Acadian Descent
From: gnu
Date: 02 Nov 06 - 02:25 PM

Oh, yeah, New Brunswick is the only officially bilingual province in Canada... we don't like Quebecois in both languages.

Subject: RE: BS: Acadian Descent
From: GUEST,thurg
Date: 02 Nov 06 - 03:03 PM

"I've sometimes been curious though how it was that in Canada the French managed to retain their language and culture as a mainstream national element within Canada, with aspirations towards independence, but in Louisiana they got marginalised by the Anglos."

The conventional wisdom is that after the conquest of Quebec, the British cut the French-Canadians a pretty good deal (Treaty of Paris, 1763) in order to encourage them to remain loyal in the conflict that they figured - correctly - was coming up with the Thirteen Colonies. So language rights, religious rights, and some institutions such as the Napoleonic (legal) Code were formally recognized. And while most of the French official leadership returned to France, the bulk of the population were able to carry on - which isn't to say there wasn't considerable hardship for a few winters, but there was some stability. Furthermore, the first British governor, whose name escapes me (Jms Murray?), who had been the general on top at the end of the war, seems to have been a decent chap, who insisted that the legal rights of the French-Canadians be acknowledged. Eventually, he was recalled, through the machinations of the johnny-come-lately English/Scottish business elite, but, if I remember correctly, his successor was either not willing or not able to thoroughly quash the political rights the Fr-Cdns had enjoyed under Murray(?). Despite the departure of the French officials, there was still a Fr-Cdn upper class, which included lawyers, some of whom fought for Fr-Cdn rights. Again, the situation developing south of the border led to more favorable treatment for the Fr-Cdns than they might have otherwise received. Then - encapsulating quite a bit of history here - the Brits decided to deal with the political conflict between French and English by dividing the Canada of the day into Upper (Ontario, English) and Lower (Quebec, French) Canada. This arrangement re-affirmed the political rights of the French. Fast forward to the 1830s - the liberal reformers/radicals/rebels in both provinces were able to overcome their ethnic mistrust of each other enough to begin collaborating against the bosses; over the ensuing decades, these collaborating reformers became the Liberal Party; for the Liberal Party to work, the Brit-Cdns had to respect to some degree the rights and aspirations of their Fr-Cdn comrades-in-arms ...

None of this had much to do with the Acadians, who until quite recently were probably as marginalized as their Cajun cousins. Unlike the Fr-Cdns in Quebec, they had lost everything in the British Conquest, and when things quieted down enough for them to emerge from the bush, they found that all their farmland had been granted to British settlers, and they were for the most part left to scratch out whatever kind of living they could on the most unproductive land. And they had little in the way of an educated leadership to speak for them, other than for a few priests. In education, economics - by just about any scale, these people as a group have come a LONG way in the last couple of generations, after two hundred years of poverty and marginalization.

Despite the length of this discourse, I don't claim to be any kind of authority on any of this stuff, so I'm perfectly willing to stand corrected if I've gotten any of the history mixed up ...

Subject: RE: BS: Acadian Descent
From: GUEST,thurg
Date: 02 Nov 06 - 03:13 PM

Didn't see gnu's post before I sent mine in. Anyway, it's not just Acadians who can tell you - you can ask my mother too; she saw how the "Frenchmen" were treated when she was a kid, and at some point realized it wasn't right ...

Subject: RE: BS: Acadian Descent
From: GUEST,Number 6
Date: 02 Nov 06 - 03:41 PM

I live in New Brunswick, english speaking only, though proud that we are the only official bilingual province .... Quebecois, I must say I certainly don't dislike them as I see no reason too, I actually admire their culture also ... but I don't want to get into this issue.

As gnu did say, Acadians should not be confused as being Quebecois.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Acadian Descent
From: number 6
Date: 02 Nov 06 - 04:23 PM

New Brunswick does have a considerable French speaking population ... but I have heard (correct me if I'm wrong)that a majority of the province's French are not actually Acadian, but rather descendants of Quebecois. Therefore all of New Brunswick's French are not necessarily Acadian, contrary which most Canadian's think.

gnu (or anyone) .. can you possibly verify this?

An interesting fact (if anyone is interested) ... Rene Levesque (the great Quebec separatist politican) was born in Campletton, New Brunswick, though raised in Gaspe.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Acadian Descent
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Nov 06 - 06:44 PM

The French province of Acadia included a large portion of southern Quebec, most all south of the St. Lawerence river out to the Gaspe. A good portion of Quebecois are of Acadian descent.

Subject: RE: BS: Acadian Descent
From: Beer
Date: 02 Nov 06 - 06:57 PM

I come from an Acadian area around Tignish P.E.I. and I'm told that when the Acadians arrived there they hid in the bush and were protected by the Indian population. My forefathers came from the line of Doucet (tte) from Cape Breton (The Margaree (sp.) area.) Mum (Pitre)came from an Acadian village not far from Moncton N.B. ( Rogersville).

Subject: RE: BS: Acadian Descent
From: GUEST,thurg
Date: 02 Nov 06 - 07:35 PM

"A good portion of Quebecois are of Acadian descent."

Was it Edith Butler (or Angele Arsenault?) who got a lot of flak for making a statement to that effect some years back (I never quite understood what the problem was)?

"they hid in the bush and were protected by the Indian population."

There seems to have been a lot of this sort of thing at that time, Natives helping out the outlawed Acadians. In the years leading up to the expulsion, the British authorities brought in various sanctions to try to put a damper on the cosy relations between the two suspect communities; obviously, they didn't succeed.

Subject: RE: BS: Acadian Descent
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Nov 06 - 08:00 PM

The problem is that some Quebecois have a slanted perception of what Quebec was. At the time of Confederation it was called Lower Canada and was very much smaller than what it is today.
If you want to seperate you don't want to leave with only what you brought in. Some even want to claim Labrador which wasn't ever part of Canada until 1949. To acknowledge a part of the province as Acadian weakens their claim to a non-divisable territory. It is quite a paradox indeed to claim a right to divide Canada but not Quebec.

Subject: RE: BS: Acadian Descent
From: gnu
Date: 03 Nov 06 - 04:18 PM

There are many Quebecois in New Brunswick. Mosly the Madawaska area... in fact, around Edmunston, there are many who fly the Republie (spg?) de Madawaska flag and want to separate from New Brunswick.

As far as the Eastern portion of New Brunswick, especially the southeastern portion, known as the heart of Acadie (Moncton is on the western boundary which is along the Petitcodiac River), there are very few Quebecois.

Regarding a dislike of Quebecois, the dislike is for the Separatistes. Like you said, sIx, not a discussion worth entering. I will just say that I admire many of their policies... in fact, on some issues they seem more Canadian than some of our politicians in their desire to maintain their cultural heritage, their soverignty over their land, and their socialistic institutions like health care, education, and the like.

You are certainly correct regarding land claims, GUEST. Essentially, Quebec was a narrow strip of land along the St. Lawrence. They were granted Prince Rupert's Land and Ungava upon the condition of staying in the Confederation. And, they don't own the Seaway, either. Anyway... again... a thorough or even slightly meaningful discussion is beyond the scope of tghis forum.

Subject: RE: Acadian Descent
From: GUEST,andyre
Date: 04 Nov 06 - 11:12 PM

Our ancestors came from Western Europe, and they in turn came from Israel 2700 years ago. Israel was destined to become a multitude of nations, and were to scatter north-west of Israel - hence we migrated to the extremes of the earth as foretold by the ancient prophets. One day, the true believers will return to the promise land of Israel as one people, and no longer divided. That is my hope, based on the prophecies of the Hebrew Bible. God is no fool; He holds the destiny of mankind in His hand, especially that of Israel and Judah.

Subject: RE: BS: Acadian Descent
From: GUEST,memyself
Date: 05 Nov 06 - 10:46 PM

What the - !

Subject: RE: BS: Acadian Descent
From: Paul Burke
Date: 06 Nov 06 - 04:26 AM

Don't be daft, heretic Guest andyre. God is omniscient and all- powerful, he knows exactly what will happen, and has known the fate of mankind collectively and individually from all eternity before the creation of the universe. There's nothing you can do about it, because if you choose to be a true believer, that's because God wanted it that way, and if you want to be an atheist, God decided you would be that way too. And if he's decided you are going to burn in hell for all eternity, God decided that too, so no amount of trying to be good will save you.

More to do with Academia than Acadia.

Subject: RE: BS: Acadian Descent
From: GUEST,memyself
Date: 06 Nov 06 - 07:52 AM

"And if he's decided you are going to burn in hell for all eternity, God decided that too, so no amount of trying to be good will save you."

Now there's a cheery thought!

Actually, there was(/is?) a diagnosible form of depression that had to do with the sufferer's Calvinist conviction that he was doomed to hell ... The husband of Lucy Maude Montgomery (author of Anne of Green Gables) apparently was afflicted with this peculiar mental illness.

Subject: RE: BS: Acadian Descent
From: Rapparee
Date: 06 Nov 06 - 08:22 AM

Saw "Drum!" last Saturday night. Damned good show. See it if you get a chance.

Didn't realize that the British had Black slavery in Eastern Canada....

Subject: RE: BS: Acadian Descent
From: GUEST,thurg
Date: 06 Nov 06 - 09:06 AM

As did the French.

Subject: RE: BS: Acadian Descent
From: GUEST,andyre
Date: 08 Nov 06 - 07:43 AM

To Paul Burke,

There is no mention of doing good religiously, or of hell fire in my introductory letter in this forum, therefore get off your self righteous attitude, and learn not to criticize what you obviously lack in knowledge regarding archaeological studies pertaining to the migrations of ancient Israelite tribes.

Subject: RE: BS: Acadian Descent
From: Paul Burke
Date: 08 Nov 06 - 07:55 AM

Andyre, you're wrong. Not even all the Jews are descended from the ancient Israelites. You've got no archaeological evidence, just nutcase websites. And logically mankind CAN'T have a destiny that isn't known in absolute detail to an omniscient god. Your hope is a fool's hope, or more likely you're off your trump.

Subject: RE: BS: Acadian Descent
From: GUEST,thurg
Date: 08 Nov 06 - 08:47 AM

Okay, Andrye - how does anything your saying relate to this thread? Are the Acadians one of the lost tribes of Israel?