BS: Britain tops the yobs league

Subject: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: ard mhacha
Date: 02 Nov 06 - 06:58 AM

So it`s official at last, a survey by, The Institute for public policy research has confirmed that British teenagers are among the worst beheaved in Europe, the IPPR blamed it on a collapse in family and community life.

Their comparisions between British families and other Europeran communities showed a big discrepancy in alcoholic consumption with the British chidren binge drinking from an early age.

I have for long asked the question on this Site about the evidence put before our eyes on all of the UK News reports, and asked for similar evidence from our cattters on the European mainland, this survey has done that for us.

In case some worthy Brit accuses me of bias I can tell them that the condemnation in that report also applies to Ireland, all 32 counties.

Is there any hope for our teenagers?, not from what I observe in our streets, the lost generation is well and truly with us.

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 02 Nov 06 - 07:07 AM

Worthy Brit?
I am surprised that the situation is the same in Ireland.
I have blamed the UK school system which since about 1970 has frowned on teachers imposing their values on their students, or making students do anything that they would rather not.
We called it "child centred education"
I thought Irish schools had escaped all that tosh.

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: GUEST,Giok
Date: 02 Nov 06 - 07:18 AM

There was a lady who's child had been murdered being interviewed on TV a couple of nights ago, and she blamed the government for taking the power away from the parents, and handing it to the children.
She wasn't exactly right, but then again she wasn't exactly wrong either.
Children now are ill disciplined, badly brought up, and overly indulged; end of story. While I don't advocate corporal punishment to excess, or for it's own sake, it DOES still have a place in disciplining children, and others.
Until parents are made TOTALLY responsible for the behavior of their offspring, feckless and irresponsible parents will continue to impose their nauseating offspring on the world.
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: GUEST,Strollin' Johnny at the Mill
Date: 02 Nov 06 - 07:24 AM

It's been downhill since they did away with National Service, stopped schools using the stick, and involved untrained, know-it-all parents in running schools. They've systematically destroyed discipline - what the f**k else did those daft-bastard PC dickheads expect?

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: kendall
Date: 02 Nov 06 - 07:49 AM

The only thing that a child is going to learn from corporal punishment is that big people get to hit little people. Like being molested, they grow up to be molesters. Setting an example goes much deeper than just giving them a whack on the bum. Kids learn by example. My father was a drunk who was seldom around. My mother was not an affectionate person and she was always working to keep us together. Neither of them ever laid a stick or a hand on me, but I learned how to act by watching them. My Mother was an honorable woman, and I admired her for that. My father, well, as they say, "No man ever need be a total failure...he can always serve as a bad example."

Here is a graphic example. Elephants. They live in social groups with certain rules. Recently, in Africa, so many of the big bulls were killed to relieve over grazing, that the young bulls began to act like juvenile delinquents. They bullied and even killed many Rhinoceros. It got to be a serious problem, then some genius figured out that the punks didn't know any better because the old bulls were not around to keep them in check. They came into "Musk" way too soon and simply couldn't handle the testosterone at their tender age.
Then, the keepers began to import full grown bulls from another region, and the problem stopped. The punks went out of Musk, and things returned to normal.
Just another example of man frigging with nature and causing more problems than solutions.

You want good kids who are going somewhere in life? Be a good parent! Kicking their asses will only make them ass kickers. I have three beautiful daughters who turned out just fine without beatings. I like to believe it is because they respect me.

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: Paul Burke
Date: 02 Nov 06 - 08:05 AM

Britain's kids are yobs (not all of them, not even a majority) beacuse our society is crippled. How do you succeed in Britain? Best way is to be born rich. Second best way is to break the law. Third best is to cheat and lie. Last best, get educated and work hard.

What are our ideals? To get famous for the sake of being famous. To show off your success with a big house, guzzling car, grededy lifestyle. How do you bring up kids? Give them anything but your time and attention, sit them in front of a video so you don't have to read to them, tell them stories, sing. get a childminder to keep them in front of their video all day. Teach them contempt for the law, after all speed cameras are only there to raise revenue.

Teach them that only anoraks do anything constructive, that violence is cool, that wearing Man U tattoos and knowing football trivia is mainstream, but wearing a raincoat and knowing train trivia is weird.
That fashion is imnportant. That their main role in life is to be a consumer of whatever mass produced goods they want to sell you this week.

PC teachers? who educates kids for the 85% of the time they aren't in school. Child centred education? or conmmercially- centred education?

family life? What's the divorce rate? Of my kids' circle (middle class rural) only about 1 in 5 have parents together. How are kids supposed to learn to relate to others when their parents can't even relate to each other?

National service? Ever tried thinking for yourself?

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 02 Nov 06 - 08:17 AM

Well Kendall if kids learn by example, and properly administered corporal punishment isn't PART of the answer, where do children learn to hit other children from if they don't learn it from thier parents? And what do you do about it when it occurs?
How does a child know it hurts if he's not hit back when he has been violent to another person. Do they just think, 'Oh that's OK, Jerry in Tom and Jerry just pops back into shape after he's been hit, so will that little boy I just smashed on the head with a rock' ?
Sorry Cap'n but with kids it's 'Monkey see monkey do', the punishment must fit the crime, up to but not including capital punishment, because we are men and not Gods.
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 02 Nov 06 - 08:20 AM

Kids today know the law inside out, in my growing up years if I heard the words "I'll tell your da" that was enough. We showed respect to those we lived among. Today if you say anything to them, it's "you can't do anything, I'm a minor"

These days people are more inclined to own their own houses and take pride in their gardens. If you have reason to complaint to a parent, you find they are quick to defend their kids, whatever they did.

I never had reason to hammer my son, if he did something I felt was wrong, I used to say, right I will talk to you later about this. He kept out of my way for days, and would come to me and near beg to get it over with ! Leaving him thinking about what he did worked for me.

As to were my parents went wrong with me, they tried God bless them.

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 02 Nov 06 - 08:31 AM

Paul, I agree with your points, but thsose factors do not only apply here.
We have to look at what is different for kids in this country.
That is why I suspect our school system.

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: Becca72
Date: 02 Nov 06 - 08:42 AM

As one of Kendall's daughters I have to say that I think he and I have a very good relationship, we have always been close and he has never laid a hand on me for any reason. He never had to. He knew how to discipline us without smacking us around. I would never have dreamed of acting up like I see some children doing today, throwing a hissy fit in the middle of a store, and it wasn't the threat of violence that kept me from doing it. It was love and respect for my father, and knowing that was not acceptible behavior and wouldn't get me anywhere.

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: Maryrrf
Date: 02 Nov 06 - 08:51 AM

It isn't just the UK ! Recently in my usually quiet neighborhood - a suburb of Richmond, VA there has been a wave of vandalism complete with graffiti, heaving bricks through windows (one of which narrowly missed my son)and they even burned one neighbors car up (it was completely destroyed, apparently they had dowsed it with a flammable liquid). There is no rhyme or reason to it, and the police are sure it is kids (they haven't any proof as to exactly which ones) between the ages of 13 and 15 who are doing this for kicks.   Even if they get caught, most likely nothing will happen to the little bastards.

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: Den
Date: 02 Nov 06 - 09:13 AM

I don't think you can really lay the blame at the door of the schools Keith. I think it is a societal problem. With both parents working these days there is little time invested in the up-bringing of kids. Its a sad reality that a lot of kids tend to get more feedback from the TV than they do from their parents. Here in Canada it isn't much different.

We have a relatively new phenomenon (new to us in NS) occuring here, where gangs of teenagers are "swarming" innocent passers-by, beating them and robbing them. We have friends who run a daycare who have parents wanting to drop their kids off on national holidays because they need some time for themselves. In years past extended families (grandparents etc)lived together and acted almost like small communities. There was always an adult on hand to look out for the children. Now-a-days we can't wait to rush the old folks into homes and the kids out on their own.

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: GUEST,Strollin' Johnny at the Mill
Date: 02 Nov 06 - 09:54 AM

Sorry kendall, I know where you're coming from and, in a perfect world, it might, just ever-so-slightly possibly, work. Unfortunately this world is far from perfect, and for every goody-two-shoes kid, there are dozens of little hooligans whose reaction to a pat on the head is to kick the patter in the balls.

When I was at school, we were caned if we misbehaved. We behaved.

When I was at school, teachers were in charge of the classroom. If you went home to your parents and told them you'd had a slap or the cane from the teaccher, you got another, very hard, clout from your dad. We behaved.

National Service taught young men to be clean, accept discipline, and have the work-ethic, self-discipline and self-respect.

The level of crime, hooliganism and vandalism amongst teenagers then was a tiny fraction of that today.

QED for me, and no-one will persuade me otherwise.

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: ard mhacha
Date: 02 Nov 06 - 10:13 AM

The unanswered question is how do those parents on the mainland, [or is it also single parent there as well] manage to have more disciplined children.
We have much to learn from a more civilised mainland Europe, witness the scum that trail after English football teams, and wonder why the citizens of the Mainland tolerate us, even the towns of sunny Spain can look on in bewilderment at the druken slobs that are a summer pestilence, yes, as far as civilisation goes we are light years behind.

Study how its done there must be a lesson to learn from mainland Europe.

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: ard mhacha
Date: 02 Nov 06 - 10:52 AM

Regarding National Service, we didn`t have NS in Ireland and we didn`t have the kind of alcohol and drug fueled mayhem we have been seeing in our towns over the past 20 years, from then disipline has been very quickly disappearing with our teenagers.

Can any of you feel safe meeting a mob of drunken-drug filled youngsters in the late evening or God forbid the wee small hours, your life in their hands and i`m not referring to the old TV programme, I and many others of my age group don`t feel safe to walk our streets, it has come to that.

The Government in a hopeless attempt to curtail this behaviour issuse, Anti Osial Behaviour Orders, to persistent offenders, now according to this mornings TV News, the young scum regard this as a medal of honour, and are idolised by their friends if thay are ASBO lads, funny if it wasn`t so serious, it certainly looks a hopeless task.

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: Den
Date: 02 Nov 06 - 11:07 AM

You have to have a license to drive a car but any irresponsible asshole is free to concieve children. Parents should know where their children are and who they are with at any time of the day, that's your responsibility, no if's and's or but's. There has been an idea put before local council here to have parents held responsible for the anti-social behaviour of their kids. Once the parents start to get hit in the wallet for the misdemeanors of their unruley kids that may start to raise their level of conscience.

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: kendall
Date: 02 Nov 06 - 11:57 AM

Kids are not stupid. Telling them to do something, then you doing the opposite is a sure way to lose their respect.

Running red lights, cheating on your taxes, swearing at people in public, stealing small items from stores, swilling beer and watching football all day etc. Homer Simpson is an exaggeration, but it's too close to the truth to be funny.

These little things are what moulds kids. Beware! they are watching you!

A good example, one of my relatives entered his living room and when he saw that his young daughter was watching a tv show with black people in it, he turned it off, saying, "We don't watch nigger shows in this house."
Sometime later, he was watching a prize fight between two black fighters, and the daughter turned it off sayin "We don't watch nigger shows in this house."

Do as I say, not as I do just doesn't cut it anymore.

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: Rasener
Date: 02 Nov 06 - 12:58 PM

I agree with Strollin' Johnny.

However, I blame parents, who don't seem to give a toss about discipline.

I keep on saying this, but if my wife and I can do it, then parents with normal children can - we have an ADHD girl 15 and an Autistic girl 11. They are well mannered and respect other people. They have their problems, but one thing we have done is teach them morality and to respect each other.

Quote
There was a lady who's child had been murdered being interviewed on TV a couple of nights ago, and she blamed the government for taking the power away from the parents, and handing it to the children.
She wasn't exactly right, but then again she wasn't exactly wrong either.
Children now are ill disciplined, badly brought up, and overly indulged; end of story. While I don't advocate corporal punishment to excess, or for it's own sake, it DOES still have a place in disciplining children, and others.
Until parents are made TOTALLY responsible for the behavior of their offspring, feckless and irresponsible parents will continue to impose their nauseating offspring on the world.
Giok
End of quote.

I don't entirely agree, based on what I said above. The parents are one of the biggest problems in all of this. They don't seem to care what their kids are up to, and let them wander the streets causing mayhem. I am convinced a lot of the kids today have learnt it from their parents who are the ASBO's.
Put the buggers in the forces and sort them out. Why are these minority of plebs ruling our lives. Becuase we are too weak to stand up and be counted. And why don't we tell thses PC people to stick their stupid ideas up their own arses.

As I say we haven't allowed our children to become plebs, and there are a lot of decent kids around, but theses mindless yobos are giving them a bad name.

Lets get tough and put the ba*****s in the army and send them to Iraq etc. That will sort the buggers out.

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: ard mhacha
Date: 02 Nov 06 - 01:44 PM

Sorry Villan to disagree some of the biggest culprits I came across were British Army troops, and as I said previous we had no NS and we behaved responsible, until this present lot of indiciplined rabble arrived on our streets.
Parents cannot behave responsble if they are to be found drinking in their local night after night, Villan look around you and tell me if the parents you meet every day are responsible, I spent years in England and the pub was the hub for most husbands.
Learn from resposible people look to Europe for guidance they are better behaved or this report is a lie, and I don`t think it is.

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: GUEST,Dandruff suffer
Date: 02 Nov 06 - 02:00 PM

Agreed, figures for young parents abusing drink and drugs has went through the roof. Last Saturday night I met children as young as ten still walking the streets after midnight. Young mums hit the streets in "hunting packs" every weekend. Kids come down the stairs next morning to a series of "uncles". There is no committment to marriage anymore, seperation is too easy these days, no need to stick around and work out their problems. How many "new or part time" daddies give a toss about some other guys children. This is not the whole problem, but it's a hell of a lot of it.

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 02 Nov 06 - 03:07 PM

I think a major part of the problem is that if any adult seeks to rebuke or restrain a child, or if a young lout is doing damage, first the adult will be accused of everything from being a paedophile to a thug, assaulted by the child, and if he defends himself he will then be officially accused of violence against the child.

The child will get of scot free either as irrebuttably doli incapax (under 10 - like kids in Sheerness who last week caused tens of thousands of poundsworth of damage in a car showroom using the roofs of cars as trampolines - and proving they knew that they were doing wrong by hiding when anyone walked by the showroom - I've seen the pictures from the CCTV) or rebuttably doli incapax (10 to 14) where it has to be shown that the child knew tha twhat it was ding was wrong.

So there is neither formal nor informal sanction for the wrongdoing of youth.

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: Rasener
Date: 02 Nov 06 - 03:26 PM

>>Parents cannot behave responsble if they are to be found drinking in their local night after night, <<

Thats what I mean. its the parents.

I don't behave like that and I do not expect my children to behave like that.

I personally do not see why I have to put up with such diabolical behaviour.

Lets get tough or are we all whimps.

Lets start fighting for the rights for police to get stuck intop these yobos and sort them out.

I lived in Holland for 13 years and going into the forces was a rule and the police had control. The police get stuck in over there and you won't hear me complain. I have seen the police empty the complete end of a foorball ground in minutes - no messin g around. I have also seen the police over their hit people if they misbehave.

Over here the police don't stand a chance. We have taken all the power away from them. Why do we have a police force to protect us and then not allow them to ptotect us. Doesn't make sense to me.
I have no time for these ignorent/badly behaved yobos and I do not have any time for these stupid PC brigade who are stopping us have law and order.

ard m - I agree that the minority make the headlines and get away with law and order and that makes this country look bad. If we don't do anything quickly we will be in more serious problems.

However I have a folk club and everybody in there are responsible people and we all trust each other.

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: kendall
Date: 02 Nov 06 - 04:29 PM

I'm not saying that we should do away with discipline, I am saying corporal punishment should not be the FIRST resort. If you can't outsmart them you shouldn't have them. take some classes in parenting, you are not born with the skills to raise kids.

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: ard mhacha
Date: 02 Nov 06 - 04:52 PM

Fair play to you Villan and all in the Folk Club, but you must concede that the pub is the be all and end all for most "fathers", I have seen them here and also across the water, at one time you went in fear of your teacher, now some of the teachers lives are made a misery by these young thugs.
I am pleased I am not involved with these youngsters any more, I was at one time when I helped with my local GAA team, at that time all the children were interested in was football, I amm told by some of the men now in charge that it is almost impossible to keep the young men at the Club, drink, drugs and girls are the main attraction, and this is the under16 team, and you wonder why the English premier league has few young English lads making on to the first team, this could be one of the main reasons.

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: Zany Mouse
Date: 02 Nov 06 - 04:56 PM

Les: The problem with taking a tough stand is that even more aggro will be heaped on your head!

Rhiannon, who knows from experience!

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Nov 06 - 05:29 PM

I don't think we can discount the differing ways that children are actually brought up in countries within Europe, other than UK.

Go to Italy, Spain, France, Greece etc etc... in the evenings you see children out with their parents. They start school earlier in the morning, they finish earlier in the afternoon and they have their siesta.

They are taken out to eat in restaurants as part of the family, not stuck at home with a 14year old babysitter while their parents socialise elsewhere.

Children in the UK are not taught how to act in company. They are generally dissuaded from being with adults in the evenings. Reap what you sow.

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 02 Nov 06 - 06:00 PM

England is an overcrowded place and we got industrialisation before everywhere else. So we got its problems to the power of ten. The problem is that if you keep expanding the economy - the society keeps changing - so there is little stability.

its no use whining that its not 1952 an we can't send Len hutton out to bat for us, give the bounders a good hiding etc. the population has doubled since then - there have been two or three social revolutions. We used to sneer at America's problems - nowadays we realise those same problems are probably going to turn up on our doorstep in a three or four years time. that's a place where the economy moves on even more ruthlessly than our own - they probably need all those guns!

Incidentally its perhaps worth pointing out to all these fans of the birch and cane. that it wasn't activities by the do gooders or the children, who led to its dishonourable exit - it was the fact that adults couldn't be trusted with the power; used it excessively, and there were little hitlers all over the shop - who simply had to be disarmed.

Your economy has started to move Ard. When it becomes a really well known place for immigrants to aim for - things will really get into gear. See how well your culture copes then. We may not be brilliant - but we try and take care of our citizens, give them health care, and educate them as best we can - however no getting away from it, its a cold corner to stand around on. Lots of nice things in the shops, but not everyone can afford them. And I'm not just talking about material things - theres a lot of folk in our society whose only chance of a cultural toehold outside the gutter is to be a Big Brother contestant.

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 02 Nov 06 - 06:03 PM

I blame Thatcher. Remember the days of 'Go and get what you want regardless of who you shit on to get it'? Well, the kids bought up with that are the parents of today. Kids do indeed get it from their parents.

Oh - and global warming is equaly to blame of course. And the habit of putting the blame on anything...

:D (tG)

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: Stu
Date: 03 Nov 06 - 11:35 AM

"I blame Thatcher"

Too right. There's no such thing as society?

Well, I am inclined to think the damage done to the fabric of society by that cantankerous old harridan is partially responsible for the current state of the country's youth.

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: Rasener
Date: 03 Nov 06 - 12:12 PM

Well we eat at the table for breakfast and dinner in the evening.

If we go to the restaurant, they come with us.

We don't go to the pub, becuase of smoking and yobbish behaviour.

Rhiannon, I hear what you say, but at the end of the day tehses little p[lebs are ruining everybodies lives. We are sio stupid as a society and pamper to them, rather than doing something about them.

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 03 Nov 06 - 04:52 PM

Here we go again, let's just blame Thatcher, rather than think about the real reasons, sheesh talk about the bogeyman of the left.
How long has she been gone? How many kids have been born raised, and become feral and anti social since she went?
Come on guys get a life, that's like blaming Ground Elder in the UK on the Romans!
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 03 Nov 06 - 04:58 PM

Sorry you didn't notice I also blamed global warming and the blame society, Giok. Guess irony doesn't realy work on the terminaly angry. Or is it the language difference?

:D (tG)

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 03 Nov 06 - 05:08 PM

Whit dae ye mean langwidge difference ma wee china?
G ¦¬]

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 03 Nov 06 - 05:54 PM

The thing is that society was at breaking point when she got into office. They blamed it on the unions at the time - but really it was because big industries like British Leyland and british Coal and British Steel were run by idiots. the workers put the sweat in - it wasn't their fault.

The policies she implemented so carelessly of the society that was there, gave us ills that cannot be cured easily.

Homeless beggars on the streets, hard drugs and the organised crime syndicates that sell them, the cynical looting of public services by various means, artificially high levels of unemployment - these were phenomena largely unknown before 1979 and a direct result of the policies she pursued.

You still get Thatcher supporters telling you she was and is the greatest living Englishman.

I suppose the reason that we have yobs on the street in England is that we have a strata of society , a large strata at that - who really don't care about any of this. And its reflected in every screw you attitude amongst the rich and successful.

I think, at one time, there was at least a tradition of public service. But can you imagine Blair, Thatcher, Kinnock wanting any of their middle class kids in the services fighting those oh so worthwhile wars.

Kids pick up on that sort of thing. They know whats been selected for them, and its not the good stuff.

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 03 Nov 06 - 06:58 PM

Today on the London Tube, on a short journey, two young men got up and offered their seats to older passengers.

Of course they weren't English. Immigration could save us yet.

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Nov 06 - 07:10 AM

Giok, we should talk more. George Formby meets Rab C Nesbitt?

:D (tG)

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: GUEST,Giok
Date: 04 Nov 06 - 07:29 AM

He he he, turned out nice again Dave!
G.

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Nov 06 - 09:04 AM

Och! Awa' an bile ye heid. That's ma line!

:D 9TG)

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 04 Nov 06 - 03:22 PM

On second thoughts, given mature consideration - and the benefit of any possible doubt - England is something of a shit hole.

I think its that rotten folk music that stirs up all the trouble. You'd be maladjusted and anti social if you lived in a country where they have such crap folksongs. I have noticed the outbreaks of violent behaviour and drug taking are always worse after so-called singarounds.

People coming into contact with this odious row have been known to snarl and drink to excess, and sometimes they are sick on the pavement.

In many places folksinging and the rowdy behaviour, which attends it have taken over in popularity the traditional English past times of seeing who can fart the loudest and who has the longest willy.

The outlook is bleak.

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 04 Nov 06 - 03:24 PM

LOL!

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Nov 06 - 03:26 PM

DAMN! I knew we had it wrong. The competition at last weeks singaround was who could fart longest and who had the loudest willy. Funny thing is Charlene from the bar won both...

:D (tG)

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 05 Nov 06 - 02:41 PM

Hi there shit kickers, its Top....Of the Yobs!

A new number one this week, its that lovely Irish lad Ian Paisley with his tape loop of You Can't Sit Down (with terrorists).

At Number Two (and bubbling under) its John Prescot with the track from Cabaret "Two Ladies"( and two jags)

An Old fave at Number three its Norm Tebbit, after his hit appearance on the late show "I can't let Maggie Go" . and why would you.

New kid on the block Dave Cameron is making it all happen at number 4 with If You Want My Body and You Think I'm Sexy - vote for me, you look stupid enough.

And Number Five (MAN Alive!) its Tony Blair with I hear you knockin' (Gordon, but fuck off!)

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: GUEST,Alan
Date: 06 Nov 06 - 03:43 AM

I think we need to look at the survey first. I wasn't asked - nor were any of my colleagues, friends, relatives, my wife's colleagues etc, nor anyone any of those links know. Where did they ask the questions? Inner city areas or a mixture. Unfortunately, statistics can be made to say whatever the person wants them to say.
I'm not a pollyanna, but don't think outright condemnation is a way to improve things and labels never, ever, work.
By the way - I have a Man Utd tatoo and have never been in a fight or got arrested in my life.
Alan

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 06 Nov 06 - 02:24 PM

What if there really are evil people out there - in all levels of society? What if no amount of love, education, social inclusiveness etc., etc. will make a blind bit of difference with such people? What do we do then?

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 06 Nov 06 - 05:05 PM

Well Jesus suggests we should turn the other cheek. Mind you, if you think you know better....

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 06 Nov 06 - 05:36 PM

I wouldn't presume to know better than Jesus. But then I suspect if one was to turn the other cheek to a Hitler or a Stalin or a Saddam (or some little asshole in the street, perhaps) one would probably end up dead - and that wouldn't do anybody any good, would it?

On the other hand I don't profess to be a Christian and I can't help questioning received wisdom ... which is so often plain wrong ...

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: GUEST,ibo
Date: 07 Nov 06 - 01:16 PM

the yobs know they can get away with it,slapped wrists and menial sentence.We live in a stupid country

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: sapper82
Date: 07 Nov 06 - 03:07 PM

""Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: stigweard - PM
Date: 03 Nov 06 - 11:35 AM

"I blame Thatcher"

Too right. There's no such thing as society?""

Here we go again! Has anyone actually read what Mrs. T said in her interview with Woman's Own on the 23rd of September, 1987?

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 08 Nov 06 - 03:28 AM

No, that week the knitting pattern had my undivided attention. And there was a good recipe for a jam sponge.

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 08 Nov 06 - 05:24 AM

A few weeks ago the journalist, Robert Fisk, was the subject of 'Desert Island Discs' on Radio 4. The presenter (Kirsty Wark, I think ... possibly?) asked him about the time that he was attacked and injured by a group of refugees in Afghanistan. She asked him if he understood the motives of the refugees in attacking him and he replied that of course he did and that if he had been an Afghan whose relatives had been blown apart by Allied bombs he would have attacked the first Westerner he saw as well. She also asked him if he forgave the refugees for attacking him and he replied that of course he didn't because there was a war on.

I think that the only person who can give or withold forgiveness is the victim (and in the event of the death of the victim, the victim's relatives). If perpetrators of crimes knew that they were just as likely to offend against a vengeful victim as a forgiving one, they might think twice. People who preach 'foregiveness', in all cases, are: just parroting a line that sounds good, in theory, and makes them sound morally superior, have never been victims themselves or have absolutely no empathy with the real (as opposed to idealised) emotions of their fellow human beings.