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Tipple information anyone?
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Subject: RE: Tipple information anyone? From: GUEST,Bare BEAR Date: 18 Sep 08 - 01:19 AM I own a 1980,s Martin Tiple and i almost owned the same tiple that Dave Guard owned of the kingston trio but the price was a little high he retired in florida but is deceased now his common law widow had it for sale .... anyhow back to the tinney sound ... obviously spoken by someone who hasnt heard one played well they were quite popular in the 60,s in blues and jazz bands i love mine .... take care ualll |
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Subject: RE: Tipple information anyone? From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 08 Sep 03 - 11:00 AM I had one once M Ted, and kept doing it till the bottle was empty. Robin |
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Subject: RE: Tipple information anyone? From: M.Ted Date: 08 Sep 03 - 10:52 AM I had a tiple once, Murray, and learned the proper spelling by reading it off the strings package. Contrary to what Spaw says, when it is tuned up to pitch, the instrument has an amazingly rich, bright, full sound. The downside(other than the fact that it is a nightmare to tune) is that there is a lot of tension between the the neck and the bridge. For this reason, the instruments tend not age particularly well. One day, without provocation, the bridge on mine tore out, taking some of the top with it--I had it repaired, but never trusted it again-- |
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Subject: RE: Tipple information anyone? From: Murray MacLeod Date: 07 Sep 03 - 07:47 AM It really surprises me that only three Mudcatters on this thread knew that the name of the instrument was "tiple" as opposed to "tipple". It does not surprise me that MTed was one of these three .... Murray |
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Subject: RE: Tipple information anyone? From: GUEST,TeeJay Date: 06 Sep 03 - 11:15 PM Sometimes we stumble onto some of the coolest discussions. Before today, I'd never even heard of a Tipple. My having read the entire thread is merely proof that I ain't right. I just gotta add something to all this... Arthur Murray.. you know, the dance school, says a Charanga is a type of music, Latin in origin,(it may well be a type of instrument too, for all I know) and that the Pachanga is a dance, which is danced to a Charanga, and that the distinction was made to avoid confusion between the two.The pachanga (a mutated form of the cha - cha) was introduced to this country in 1955 by the Cuban Embassy at the Waldorf in NYC (No, the other NYC)by Eduardo Davidson. Also... a helicopter gets silhouetted...even a black helicopter will appear black against a night sky. If they really wanted to hide them, they would make them light blue. But... then again, how do we know they don't? Ever seen one? The drug cops love to point this out to the MethCookers, just to keep them wondering... This site has some "serious chops" and I'll be back, fer sure. See yas! |
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Subject: RE: Tipple information anyone? From: Bee-dubya-ell Date: 06 Sep 03 - 10:26 AM The true historical significance of this thread is not in what it says about tipples or even that it is a prime example of Mudcat humor. It's that of the thousands of known times that Spaw has used the term "fuck" on the Mudcat, it contains the only known instance of his apologizing for doing so. Bruce |
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Subject: RE: Tipple information anyone? From: GUEST,The Phantom Tipler Date: 06 Sep 03 - 09:21 AM The present day tiple player refuses to die! |
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Subject: RE: Tipple information anyone? From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 06 Sep 03 - 05:42 AM freshie freshie for danubies (da newbies)... |
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Subject: RE: Tipple information anyone? From: Noreen Date: 20 Sep 00 - 07:01 AM But......... Did Dave buy it, and is he now playing with a Chilean band in Toronto? I think we should be told. Noreen |
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Subject: RE: Tipple information anyone? From: Jim the Bart Date: 19 Sep 00 - 07:14 PM Man. I was REALLY getting into the history of Tipples when we hit the armadillo detour and suddenly it was March of 1999 AND THEN I fall into a testimonial to 'spaw and the 300,000th message. This stuff is better than drugs. Dear Sir/Madam - Please confirm my reservation for a space (Is a suite too big? Is a cell too monasterial? No cubicles, por favor) at the NYCFTTS. I'm going now and will arrive soon. I understand all my friends are there. . .Thanks Your Loving sonny boy Bart |
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Subject: RE: Tipple information anyone? From: catspaw49 Date: 19 Sep 00 - 11:31 AM Ok Ted.....This starte out a long time ago as a legit request and in the course of all the nonsense that was posted, you'll see there is also a good bit of actual info and opinions back up there along with the tiples relatives. I find it a bit bizarre as an instrument. I know its been used in many more places than I had previously known. Perhaps if I had known back in the days when I worked in that store (see one of my above posts) then we may have sold one instead of it being the store joke. I still find it to sound like a tinny baritone uke. Outside of the "Queer Quotient" I really have never been a big fan of the strange combination type instruments....banjo-ukes and the like and the tiple hits that category in my mind, if not in reality. Truthfully, I'd still love to know what actually happens to all those Martin tiples! (BTW, this thread started the Neil Young Center thing too)---You rarely see or hear them anywhere and Martin (others too) have built them as though there is a huge market. Where? Even though I may be a bit more tuned into the thing now, I can't believe people are clamoring fo tiples! Just my opinion obviously. Spaw |
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Subject: RE: Tipple information anyone? From: M.Ted Date: 19 Sep 00 - 10:58 AM I guess we're not really going to discuss the tiple at all-Sometimes I think those "another one's gone" types have a point-;-) |
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Subject: RE: Tipple information anyone? From: Joe Offer Date: 18 Sep 00 - 03:27 PM What??Delete those duplicate threads and make it look like you hit the 300,000 mark by pure coincidence?Not a chance, Spaw. You might hoodwink a JoeClone™ into doing it, but this is one time Joe Offer won't delete duplicate messages. They are part of our history. Now, please don't start pushing for the 500,000 mark until we've hit 499,995, OK? -Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: Tipple information anyone? From: catspaw49 Date: 18 Sep 00 - 03:17 PM Yeah, I'm sorry to have cheated, but as it turns out we could eliminate the duplicate posts up there and the "Infamous Tiple Thread" would have been still been the thread with the magic number. There are threads more indicative of the meaning and purpose of this joint, but considering the "Thread-A-Thon" that we had, what could be more appropriate than this BS Classic? Spaw |
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Subject: RE: Tipple information anyone? From: Joe Offer Date: 18 Sep 00 - 03:10 PM Catspaw, do you mean to tell me you hit the 300,000 mark on purpose? You stacked the deck? Still, the 300,000 mark couldn't have been hit by a better person. -Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: Tipple information anyone? From: M.Ted Date: 18 Sep 00 - 12:45 PM I don't see what's so funny about a tiple-- |
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Subject: RE: Tipple information anyone? From: catspaw49 Date: 18 Sep 00 - 12:21 PM So I cheated.....Bite me. Spaw |
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Subject: RE: Tipple information anyone? From: catspaw49 Date: 18 Sep 00 - 12:19 PM At this historic occasion as we move into the 300,000 post level, what could be better than a nostalgic look at this Mudcat Classsic and Icon. Spaw |
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Subject: RE: Tipple information anyone? From: catspaw49 Date: 18 Sep 00 - 12:19 PM At this historic occasion as we move into the 300,000 post level, what could be better than a nostalgic look at this Mudcat Classsic and Icon. Spaw -Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: Tipple information anyone? From: catspaw49 Date: 18 Sep 00 - 12:19 PM At this historic occasion as we move into the 300,000 post level, what could be better than a nostalgic look at this Mudcat Classsic and Icon. Spaw |
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Subject: RE: Tipple information anyone? From: Alice Date: 09 May 99 - 06:01 PM keepin' this alive...
Just to let all you Mudcat folks know, alice in montana |
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Subject: RE: Tipple information anyone? From: catspaw49 Date: 16 Mar 99 - 09:03 AM Whoo...Okay, it's morning, the shadows have departed and though it's cold, the sun is shining. One kid missed the bus, a cat barfed right outside the bathroom door, Karen's Prelude has a flat...things are looking normal. Thanks for the reality check katlaughing. I think the wide open spaces attract the strange...not you...but the assorted kooks and nabobs you mention. I 'm not concerned about what happens at the critical Y2K moment in New York, London, Tokyo, etc. I AM worried about the effects in East Bunghole, Idaho!!! What if almost nothing goes wrong??? Might be like the A-bomb scenario. "We've got this thing now, don't need it, but damn! Whaddaya' think? Let's blast hell outa' somebody anyway!" If this hits the survivalists, supremacists, et.al., NOW THAT could be a bigger problem than anything on Y2K. Hey, I got an idea! Let's send them all tipples. On the other hand we could talk about your moon and Uranus. Or mine...no, skip that, too hideuos for words and a picture is not readily available. But(t) when was the last time you mooned anyone(thing)(place)??? Sounds like a thread topic. "WHEN and WHO DO MUDCATEERS MOON?" Later, catspaw |
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Subject: RE: Tipple information anyone? From: katlaughing Date: 16 Mar 99 - 12:53 AM Catspaw! LMAO! It's safe here in Wyomin' Come on out, pahdner! They only let sheepmen, oilmen, cattlemen, and true gee-tar pickers in here, no teeplays allowed (they've got VERY narrow minds, here, sometimes they forget and use them to sit on!). And, they've already got the Millenium alarmists in place, along with those who believe Armageddon is gonna coincide with Y2K, and the other loonies who want to break away from the USA and start their own "white" country. You could all stomp on each other in a rush to buy up every gun, load of ammo, foodstuff, woodstoves, bunkers, etc. before you head for the hills. But, just remember....the eyes of Big Brother can see through the walls, can read the numbers on the money in your wallet, and knows what you dream about! I don't think it's the CIA, though! In reference to the What do Mudcateers look like posting I left, "What's so intelligent about the CIA?"
Having seen my own UFO, right here in ole Casper, I can just about guarantee it's those aliens and/or the men in black helicopters (our paper even did an article on some spotted here!)ala The X-Files. Aarrggghh, where's Scully and Mulder!? Did you know they actually traced the teeplay to an obscure moon of Uranus? Maybe they already got S&M? Wait...I hear something, my dog is going nuts, the cockatiel is banging on his bars, the cats are chasing their tails, it's..... sorry, just a normal day at my house!**smile** Ode to Tiples: Where do they come from? What do they mean? Something heard in a dream? A nightmare more it seems, For Catspaw & Martin(Mar-teen)! There's got to be more, but my brain just fried! It's been real...katlaughing
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Subject: RE: Tipple information anyone? From: catspaw49 Date: 16 Mar 99 - 12:27 AM OHMYGOD......I HAVE IT!!!!!! It's not aliens or any of this other bunk. See how silly we've become? We can't take the tipple seriously can we? And we have reason to believe that Martin built thousands!!! Since no one admits to being a good tipple player, we can only assume the thing is deliberately designed to be played by the psychotics at the Neil Young Center for the Terminally Screwed. And who set that place up, who pays the bills there??? A raucous instrument in the hands of an insane player...thousands of them...What if tipple bands were suddenly released upon the unsuspecting populace in every country? The resulting chaos and panic would enable outsiders to takeover!!! Don't you see it friends? IT'S THE C.I.A.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!They've been pissed over the No Assassination edict and their loss of prestige...this is perfect!!! No need to send in a killing team...Send in a tipple band and the Qaddafis, Husseins, Castros, and their ilk will blow their own brains out!!!! But given that much power, who can say the CIA will then not focus inward...and if the timing is right they can take over this nation to their own ends. They could even declare war on our allies in Canada. Think of it..."O Canada" played by a psychotic tipple band......the entire country might be reduced to a quivering mass of jangled nerve endings and Canadians will be forced to put each other out of misery. And here in the U.S., if Gore is president, the people of his own state will have him killed after hearing "Rocky Top" on tipple. And what if Libby Dole is elected??? Old Bob is so weird that a crazed tipple band playing the Oscar Meyer ditty may cure his E.D. and Ms. Dole will have to resign when Bob spends 11 days running from DuPont Circle to Rock Creek Park in his underwear, screaming "I gotta' Boner...It's a Woody!" I've got to go and alert the congress...no,the FBI...no,the uh, uh,..............I gotta' get the family out of bed and head for the hills. This could be worse...NO THIS IS WORSE than Y2K. I'll try to help out any of you too...just identify yourselves as Mudcateers. catspaw |
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Subject: RE: Tipple information anyone? From: katlaughing Date: 15 Mar 99 - 11:33 PM More progressions/digressions: She-play, He-play, We-play? Arrrgghhhhh! |
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Subject: RE: Tipple information anyone? From: katlaughing Date: 15 Mar 99 - 11:32 PM She-play, He-play, We-play? Arrrgghhhhh, bah, humbug! |
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Subject: RE: Tipple information anyone? From: Barbara Date: 15 Mar 99 - 11:31 PM More of a leg-PULL, if you ask me. |
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Subject: RE: Tipple information anyone? From: Don Meixner Date: 15 Mar 99 - 10:39 PM Tee-Play Nee-Play Hmmmmmmm. DRM |
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Subject: RE: Tipple information anyone? From: Lonesome EJ Date: 15 Mar 99 - 09:17 PM Barbara, are you trying to suggest that nobody will believe my story JUST because the West-Peruvian variant pronunciation of tee-PLAY is tee-PULL? Ha! I thought not! |
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Subject: RE: Tipple information anyone? From: katlaughing Date: 15 Mar 99 - 04:34 PM Exactly what Robert Earl Keen sings about in the song I mentioned before! Poor things! Autos have certainly been a curse to the four-leggeds, eh? katlaughing, walking on all twos |
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Subject: RE: Tipple information anyone? From: Barbara Date: 15 Mar 99 - 03:25 PM Say, Lonesome EJ, that truck and the Peruvian would work better if you noticed back where Don told us the correct SA pronunciation of the the critter is "tee-PLAY"... Nice try tho. And speaking of critters, a biologist friend tells me that so many armadillos become road pizza on the half shell because they have this unfortunate habit of leaping straight into the air when startled. You try to straddle one, and he throws himself into your front grill. Blessings, Barbara |
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Subject: RE: Tipple information anyone? From: Dave Gallagher Date: 15 Mar 99 - 11:07 AM Sorry about that last multiple posting.. I'll get the hang of this thing one of these days. I really appreciate all the information in this forum.. I have an old folk album from the 60's (remember then?) by a group known as the Just IV. Among the odd instruments they played was a 12-string banjo and a tiple. Seemed to fit nicely with what they were doing, but the group never did become well known. My last multiple posting seemed to occur when I tried to tab within the text of my document. Next thing I knew, there they were, so, I'm very carefully avoiding that. Here we go now, click on the submit button and..... |
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Subject: RE: Tipple information anyone? From: Dale Rose Date: 14 Mar 99 - 11:46 PM Hmmm. Do you see the parallels with Invasion of the Body Snatchers? What's next? You go to sleep and when you wake up your D18 is all of a sudden a T18? |
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Subject: RE: Tipple information anyone? From: Lonesome EJ Date: 14 Mar 99 - 11:31 PM Once, while hitch-hiking from Taos to Denver on a dark and rainy night, I was given a ride by a stranger with a Peruvian accent. Because of his difficulties with English, and my total ignorance of the particular strain of West-Peruvian Spanish he spoke, little conversation was passed until he suddenly turned and said "Joo whan make 25 dolars help me hunload dees trock?" "OK" I replied"What are you hauling?" "Teeples..." he whispered. "Hondreds of dem" He backed up to an empty barn just outside Pueblo, where several rustic types threw open the doors. What I saw stunned me...Tipples of every imaginable shape, color and size! We worked for several hours unloading them. I suddenly realized it...this was the main tipple distribution center for the entire region. But I took my 25 dollars...and I kept my mouth shut. Until now. |
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Subject: RE: Tipple information anyone? From: BK Date: 14 Mar 99 - 10:41 PM I've just reconsidered part of my last post; When even 'catters know of so few real live instances of even "south american" "humans" using Tipples, & a really tiny scattring of other known, presumably human players of these F'n Things, I'm not sure the Alien Hypothesis is really adequately laid to rest. I'll bet the "Fuckin' Thing" was the only Tipple in town; God knows, 'catters, I saw a LOT of them in visits over the years. I don't think they worked on the same batch every time I was there, over all those years; often a bunch would be finished, & they were still completing others.. They had to go SOMEWHERE... The Degoba system? Are they being played by Yoda's cousins & sibs?? Or someone more sinister, allied w/the dark side of the force...? Really: Where the HELL did all the rest go?? They had T-18's (mahogony), T-28's (rosewood, of course) & God knows how many other types ('N She's not tellin').. (NOI) It's bizzarre! Cheers, BK |
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Subject: RE: Tipple information anyone? From: BK Date: 14 Mar 99 - 10:21 PM Glad (maybe?) to know tipples are not going to promt an iminent barrage of Alien invaders trying to conquer the Pennsylvania farmland near Nazareth.. Whew! I was worried for a few decades.. About he redeeming value of a nominally ant-eating mammal that most new biology students will key out as a reptile, cuz they'l forget abt the external ears: They may also be a reservoir for leprosy, tho may not likely transfer the disease to man often, & it's not that easy to get.. BUT, I used to do autopsies on them for a professor of mine. WOW do they stink; almost as much as cooking 'possum. YECH! NASTY! (NOI to fans of Possum Almondine, or Alfredo, Possum fajita's, etc, etc..) Cheers, BK |
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Subject: RE: Tipple information anyone? From: catspaw49 Date: 14 Mar 99 - 09:37 PM Uh thanks Dave, but we gotta' work on your posting ability a bit....simply type in your message and hit submit message and WAIT......DON'T DO ANYTHING ELSE UNTIL YOUR MESSAGE POSTS ! ! ! ! ! ! Don't hit your back browser or keep hitting submit....it may take a moment , but don't keep trying to move on...OK??? catspaw |
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Subject: RE: Tipple information anyone? From: Dave Gallagher Date: 14 Mar 99 - 08:39 PM Thanks for the informative and entertaining information all you Mudcatters who are contributing to this thread. I have enough information to decide whether I'd like to play a 'tiple' or not (it seems they are not too popular, or well known)... And I have seen and heard charangos (that's the little armadillo shell with the 12 string neck) and someone good at it can really make it sing. |
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Subject: RE: Tipple information anyone? From: katlaughing Date: 14 Mar 99 - 05:22 PM Dear, Demented and Confused Catspaw (NOI), Ya' gotta step up to the real world, ala the 21st century, man!***smile*** The cd I mentioned in the other thread, thanks for reading it by the way, has some of the MOST beautiful music I've ever heard and it sounds traditional in the sense that it is melodious and NOT caricature-ish ala beach band crap (I have an idea of what you're talking about and I HATE it!). I really couldn't tell what country it was from when I first heard it and the instruments he plays, including tin whistle, harmonica, guitar, vibraphone, melodica, charango, maulincho, and ronroco absolutely SING! Sure, you say you respect me, but will you still say that in the morning?! If so, please give this cd a listen, open and expand your mind to embrace new sounds and concepts, in other words, don't be a stick in the beach of the 60's Rio scene!***BIG GRIN*** Or is it called being a "purist"? Uh-oh, now I've done it! The wrath of openminded phoakies is gonna rain down 'pon my head! PEACE! PEACE! I say! Seriously, this is why I keep coming back to the Mudcat. I love the lively discussions, the "agree to disagree" conclusions, the ongoing riposte, double entendres, and darn good information/education which comes of it every time I log on! Thank you, Catspaw, you're right we don't have to like all of the same stuff, any of us. I am ending my sabattical this week which I took from writing my op/ed column when mom died. I've been looking for a subject and was contemplating something about the "Harmony of Friends" I call the Mudcat. But...I've decided I don't really want to share that too much; don't want it inundated by a bunch of newbies en masse. Like a fine jewel buried deep in the heart of a mountain, the Mudcat gleams for those few who are lucky enough to stumble upon it in their search. Now, I DON'T mean I don't want any new people coming here! After all, I was a newbie just last January. What I mean is any newbie must find it on their own or through another Mudcateer, thus proving themselves worthy! Boy, is my nose up in the air or what!? Well, 'nough said. Thanks, again, Catspaw AND DON! My respect and honour to you both, katlaughing |
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Subject: RE: Tipple information anyone? From: catspaw49 Date: 14 Mar 99 - 01:14 PM katlaughing...by the way, a lot of this translates to the beach bands in Rio which we have several recordings from the 60's. Lots of weird and fun instruments that quickly get on my nerves...Does that make any sense? Oh well, James Taylor hits me the same way...I think you can sing "Fire and Rain" to every song he's written. **GRIN** catspaw |
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Subject: RE: Tipple information anyone? From: catspaw49 Date: 14 Mar 99 - 12:49 PM As predicted, someone did indeed come to the defense of the tipple and fortunately it was Don and katlaughing whose opinions I respect, if not necessarily agree. And...sure enough, truth becomes stranger than fiction as Rick's armadillo line turns into reality. I think Don is a Pat Sky fan and so he'll understand that "Reality is Bad Enough, Why Should I Tell the Truth?" And kat ... I did check out your other thread, but I gotta' tell you, and I apologize for my bigoted opinion, but I really don't care for any of this stuff. But the beauty of it is that I don't have to, and I'm glad you do...but thanks for the education!!! Seriously. There is always something for a thought, an education, a laugh, or a cry here at Mudcat!!! catspaw |
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Subject: RE: Tipple information anyone? From: DonMeixner Date: 14 Mar 99 - 10:55 AM Since this is now the Armadillo thread and its my fault, here is a redeeming point for Armadillos. Besides man they are the only know animal which may get Hanson's Disease(Leprosy) which makes them ideal test subjects and the bedrock of successful research for this world wide dreadful affliction. Don |
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Subject: RE: Tipple information anyone? From: reggie miles Date: 14 Mar 99 - 10:41 AM Armadillos do have one redeeming quality though they make good speed bumps. (NOI) Reggie |
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Subject: RE: Tipple information anyone? From: katlaughing Date: 14 Mar 99 - 10:24 AM Hey! I was only "parroting" what I read on the website re' south american instruments! NOI!Ever heard Robert Earl Keen's song about armadillos, "The Armadillo Jackal"? It's on his "No Kinda Dancer" cd. kat |
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Subject: RE: Tipple information anyone? From: catspaw49 Date: 14 Mar 99 - 04:44 AM ARMADILLO: 'Possum on the Half-Shell. catspaw |
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Subject: RE: Tipple information anyone? From: reggie miles Date: 14 Mar 99 - 01:37 AM katlaughing, Concern for loss of species???, armadillos have to be one of the stupidest animals on the planet. (NOI) When I was living in New Orleans twenty years ago the jug band that I was working with, Washboard Jackson's Hot Damn Jug Band, had a day job that the whole band shared. We each took turns driving a ten ton mail truck and delivering bulk mail for a private contractor who worked with the New Orleans Post Office. Half way to Atlanta we swapped trucks at a little truck stop with another other driver who was south bound. We carried his mail south he took ours north. It was a thirteen hour run there and back again. I remember even though the trucks had govenors on their carburetors I managed to make it to the swap stop earlier than usual one time. I took that time to drive through the little town of Georgiana, Alabama which was located right off the main road where we met at the truck stop. A beautiful little town, sleepy, quiet, it made me feel I had stepped back in time about a hundred years. I am digressing a bit here. My point was that, on this run of thirteen hours, I have never seen more dead armadillos in my entire life. I never hit any myself mind you. Must be some combination of bad eyesight and an inability to hear on coming traffic. I figure with hearing that bad they just naturally aren't much good as a musical instrument. They'd always be out of tune. sorry 'bout that My friend Jack Cook, guitar player, blues historian, has a tipple that he keeps threatening to bring to one of our shows. Reggie
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Subject: RE: Tipple information anyone? From: Susan A-R Date: 13 Mar 99 - 11:39 PM Well, someday I'll REALLY learn to spell. It is "cuatro" not Quatro, but you get the ideaa. |
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Subject: RE: Tipple information anyone? From: katlaughing Date: 13 Mar 99 - 11:30 PM Susan D-R: According to what I posted on the other thread and from what I've read on a cd by Gustav Santaolalla, "Ronroco", and heard in an interview of him on NPR, they are all generally called charangas (their spelling); ronrocos and something else which I can't remember seem to be a subspecies of charangas; the difference is size. The Andean instruments are beautiful, aren't they? The info I pasted in the other thread really is pretty interesting. Sorry to keep "harping" on it! Katlaughing |
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Subject: RE: Tipple information anyone? From: Susan A-R Date: 13 Mar 99 - 08:22 PM I thought that the cherrango was the armadillo. Pick up an Inti Illmani album to get the sense of the sound. I think that I've acutally played one (a very rickety one, and it took a lot to get my rather large hands around it) but then I may be confusing it with the Quatro. I must admit that I have a borderline wierd weakness for all of those Andean instruments, particularly the samponas or pan pipes. Ah me. |
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Subject: RE: Tipple information anyone? From: katlaughing Date: 13 Mar 99 - 06:57 PM Don, You are right about them being made out of armadillo shells, but wood is more popular now because of concern for loss of species. Anyway, they are called ronrocos, etc., as I said. The thread I mentioned above has a piece about them which I pasted in from another website, IF ANYONE IS INTERESTED!!?? Sheesh!NOI! katlaughing |
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