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Smoking/smoke can damage your voice.

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Georgiansilver 06 Nov 06 - 01:56 PM
kendall 06 Nov 06 - 01:59 PM
Clinton Hammond 06 Nov 06 - 02:01 PM
Clinton Hammond 06 Nov 06 - 02:03 PM
Mrs Scarecrow 06 Nov 06 - 02:03 PM
Scrump 06 Nov 06 - 02:07 PM
GUEST 06 Nov 06 - 02:08 PM
The Villan 06 Nov 06 - 02:12 PM
Clinton Hammond 06 Nov 06 - 02:12 PM
Clinton Hammond 06 Nov 06 - 02:14 PM
Ebbie 06 Nov 06 - 02:15 PM
Tattie Bogle 06 Nov 06 - 02:19 PM
Shaneo 06 Nov 06 - 02:28 PM
Bernard 06 Nov 06 - 02:34 PM
The Villan 06 Nov 06 - 03:08 PM
Clinton Hammond 06 Nov 06 - 03:15 PM
GUEST,memyself 06 Nov 06 - 03:17 PM
The Villan 06 Nov 06 - 03:23 PM
The Villan 06 Nov 06 - 03:24 PM
Clinton Hammond 06 Nov 06 - 03:25 PM
The Sandman 06 Nov 06 - 03:25 PM
Richard Bridge 06 Nov 06 - 03:28 PM
Bernard 06 Nov 06 - 03:29 PM
melodeonboy 06 Nov 06 - 03:37 PM
The Villan 06 Nov 06 - 03:39 PM
The Villan 06 Nov 06 - 03:42 PM
Clinton Hammond 06 Nov 06 - 03:45 PM
Bernard 06 Nov 06 - 03:46 PM
The Villan 06 Nov 06 - 03:47 PM
Morticia 06 Nov 06 - 03:48 PM
The Villan 06 Nov 06 - 03:48 PM
Joybell 06 Nov 06 - 03:49 PM
Clinton Hammond 06 Nov 06 - 04:05 PM
Bernard 06 Nov 06 - 04:06 PM
Bernard 06 Nov 06 - 04:08 PM
Georgiansilver 06 Nov 06 - 04:24 PM
The Villan 06 Nov 06 - 04:39 PM
Georgiansilver 06 Nov 06 - 04:40 PM
kendall 06 Nov 06 - 04:41 PM
The Sandman 06 Nov 06 - 04:46 PM
Clinton Hammond 06 Nov 06 - 05:56 PM
GUEST 06 Nov 06 - 06:17 PM
Sandra in Sydney 06 Nov 06 - 06:29 PM
Rumncoke 06 Nov 06 - 06:34 PM
Clinton Hammond 06 Nov 06 - 06:34 PM
gnu 06 Nov 06 - 06:36 PM
GUEST,harvey andrews 06 Nov 06 - 06:52 PM
kendall 06 Nov 06 - 07:25 PM
Dartford Warbler 06 Nov 06 - 07:40 PM
GUEST 07 Nov 06 - 02:45 AM
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Subject: Smoking/smoke can damage your voice.
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 06 Nov 06 - 01:56 PM

Twenty years ago I used to sing my heart out and was actually asked, frequently, to perform. I became allergic to cigarette smoke some 5yrs after giving up smoking.....smoking took its toll on me, wrecked my voice and...consequently also sapped my confidence....I still sing occasionally but am not happy with how I perform.
When considering organising Folk venues/Festivals/gathers (In the UK of course)....please at least consider having a NON-SMOKING room or area where people who are...like me..now allergic to cigarette smoke can attend without fear of being poisoned by other people.
Best wishes, Mike.


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Subject: RE: Smoking/smoke can damage your voice.
From: kendall
Date: 06 Nov 06 - 01:59 PM

5 years after I quit I developed throat cancer. Radiation and surgery gave me an excellent chance for survival, but my singing voice is gone forever. It's the main reason I didn't go to the Getaway this year.


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Subject: RE: Smoking/smoke can damage your voice.
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 06 Nov 06 - 02:01 PM

Make the whole thing non-smoking.... let the scum-bags go outside the event to poison themselves.

I'm an occasional smoker, who will HAPPILY step outside the pub to have a smoke.


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Subject: RE: Smoking/smoke can damage your voice.
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 06 Nov 06 - 02:03 PM

Kendall... don't give up.... John Prine fought throat cancer and won, but found it VERY difficult to sing for quite a while...

And when he could sing, his voice was VERY different. He joked recently about how he had to go back and relearn a LOT of his old material, in new keys for his new voice.

Maybe yours just hasn't been delivered yet


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Subject: RE: Smoking/smoke can damage your voice.
From: Mrs Scarecrow
Date: 06 Nov 06 - 02:03 PM

I gave up smoking only two years ago and am delighted with how much my voice has improved. If I had realised what a good effect it would have I would have given up before


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Subject: RE: Smoking/smoke can damage your voice.
From: Scrump
Date: 06 Nov 06 - 02:07 PM

Interesting - I did a gig with the band in a smoky pub last night and what I noticed was that my voice became a bit croaky later in the evening. It can't have been the amount of singing I did, because I only sang a handful of songs during a fairly long set of largely instrumental stuff we did, so I probably sang about half a dozen songs spread over about 3 hours.

Can smoke affect your voice like that? I guess it could have been a coincidence, but I don't have any reason to think it was anything else.


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Subject: RE: Smoking/smoke can damage your voice.
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Nov 06 - 02:08 PM

'Smoke can damage your voice.'
As well as getting in your eyes!
Move to Ireland; we've had a no-smoking policy here for a couple of years and it works like a dream.
No more sore eyes, wheezy chests and going home smelling like a used ash-tray.
Long may it stay that way.
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Smoking/smoke can damage your voice.
From: The Villan
Date: 06 Nov 06 - 02:12 PM

Its not only your throat.

I am 8 years clear from Bladder cancer cuased by smoking.
So think about it folkies, if you would like to have a camera stuck into your bladder through your willie, then carry on smoking. Same goes for you women. It doesn't end when you are clear, you have to go back on at least once a year to have it stuck up again, to see if it is still clear.

Protect the performer and the audience.


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Subject: RE: Smoking/smoke can damage your voice.
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 06 Nov 06 - 02:12 PM

" Can smoke affect your voice like that?"

If the poisons and gunk coming off the lit end of a cigarette were present down a mine shaft or in a foundry, in even half the quanties, no bugger in the civilized world would be allowed to work there.

So yes, 2nd hand smoke CAN affect your voice like that


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Subject: RE: Smoking/smoke can damage your voice.
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 06 Nov 06 - 02:14 PM

"Bladder cancer cuased by smoking"

Who told you that it was CAUSED by smoking? They were likely fulla skite. They cannot say that THIS caused your cancer HERE or THERE in ANY situation....

Otherwise, only smokers would get lung cancer.

So, while I'm all in favour of non-smoking, lets not fall victim to erroneous information.


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Subject: RE: Smoking/smoke can damage your voice.
From: Ebbie
Date: 06 Nov 06 - 02:15 PM

Kendall, I hope that Clinton is correct in what he points out. (bless you, child Clinton) I keep remembering the true note you brought out a few months ago, and it seems evident that if ONE true note is there, there are others.

And if not? Well, there are worse things, and maybe there are ways of meeting the challenges.

What if a combination of proper amplifying and recording systems can be instituted to present the voice you now have? You could bring out a unique album of stories and songs that we - and you - would love.

It might take a studio approach but I'll bet it has been done. And if not, SOMEBODY'S got to be the first one.


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Subject: RE: Smoking/smoke can damage your voice.
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 06 Nov 06 - 02:19 PM

Scotland too for non-smoking venues (some clubs were smoke-free by mutual consent even before the ban.)


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Subject: RE: Smoking/smoke can damage your voice.
From: Shaneo
Date: 06 Nov 06 - 02:28 PM

The Irish smoking ban has really worked to the advantage of the singers who preform in pubs/clubs
I am the singer/guitar player of a ballad/folk group and 3 out of the four of us smoke.
A few years ago before the ban we would be chocked by smoke from other peoples fags and even our own sitting in the ash-tray.
Them days are long gone now and we just go outside for a smoke about 3 times during a 2 hour session,,
Is the ban coming soon in the UK ?


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Subject: RE: Smoking/smoke can damage your voice.
From: Bernard
Date: 06 Nov 06 - 02:34 PM

Whether you smoke or not, cancer will get you if it's your turn...

I'm a life-long non-smoker, and find the people who have given up smoking tend to be the most vociferous about non-smoking establishments...

I have recently lost two close friends to lung cancer - one was a smoker, the other wasn't. They were both in their mid-forties... so make of that what you will.


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Subject: RE: Smoking/smoke can damage your voice.
From: The Villan
Date: 06 Nov 06 - 03:08 PM

Clinton
Its not erronious info. I went private with a top consultant, who said it was one of two things. 1. Working in a chemical factory for and being exposed to them or 2. Smoking and I used to smoke 50 a day when I was 30.
I was diagnosed when I was 52 and was one of the younger people to get it. He was certain it was through smoking.
If you would like to disgree with my consultant, I will willingly send you by PM his name and contact.
He is a top guy and did a brilliant job for me and was well respected in the trade so to speak.


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Subject: RE: Smoking/smoke can damage your voice.
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 06 Nov 06 - 03:15 PM

"He was certain it was through smoking."
He was certain he was justifying the size of his bill is what he was certan of....

http://www.cancerhelp.org.uk/help/default.asp?page=119

It's a lot of guess-work in a white labcoat

" I used to smoke 50 a day"
Where the hell did you find time to do anything else?!?! LOL It's not uncommon for a pack of 25 to last me two weeks...


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Subject: RE: Smoking/smoke can damage your voice.
From: GUEST,memyself
Date: 06 Nov 06 - 03:17 PM

I'm sure he'd love to hear from Clinton ...


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Subject: RE: Smoking/smoke can damage your voice.
From: The Villan
Date: 06 Nov 06 - 03:23 PM

LOL
I don't smoke anymore, stopped 30 years ago, thank goodness.

My job in those days required a lot of writing with me right hand, whilst my left held the fag. It was dead easy LOL The job was so bloody stressful and everybody else in the rest of the office smoked like chimneys. Its terrible to think of it now LOL


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Subject: RE: Smoking/smoke can damage your voice.
From: The Villan
Date: 06 Nov 06 - 03:24 PM

>>I'm sure he'd love to hear from Clinton ... <<

NOT LOL :-)


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Subject: RE: Smoking/smoke can damage your voice.
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 06 Nov 06 - 03:25 PM

The very thought of 50 smokes a day makes me wanna barf up a large chunk of my colon....

yuuch


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Subject: RE: Smoking/smoke can damage your voice.
From: The Sandman
Date: 06 Nov 06 - 03:25 PM

Well,I am very pleased to say I am agreeing with Jim Carroll. The Smoking ban in IRELAND has made my job a lot more pleasant .
   However carbon monoxide fumes are carconogenic as well. Dick Miles


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Subject: RE: Smoking/smoke can damage your voice.
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 06 Nov 06 - 03:28 PM

How do you get your bladder to smoke? This could eb interesting.


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Subject: RE: Smoking/smoke can damage your voice.
From: Bernard
Date: 06 Nov 06 - 03:29 PM

Set fire to it...!! '0)


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Subject: RE: Smoking/smoke can damage your voice.
From: melodeonboy
Date: 06 Nov 06 - 03:37 PM

I can't wait for the smoking ban that's due to start in England next year. I perform regularly in one capacity or another and apart from the sheer unpleasantness of cigarette smoke (especially those bloody ready-made things with the extra nasty chemicals to make them burn - saltpetre, is it?), it does affect my ability to sing. In the short term it makes me cough, sneeze and choke, and in the long term it makes me lose my voice (yes, I know there are some of you out there who think that might not be such a bad thing!). It also means that I often spend the following morning coughing repeatedly, and, in severe cases, I can hardly speak.

This results in my attending fewer "dos". If I've been in a smoky atmosphere for two nights on the trot, I would then probably not go to venues where smoking is permitted for the next two or three nights.

This is not my being PC, by the way. It's just telling it as it is.


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Subject: RE: Smoking/smoke can damage your voice.
From: The Villan
Date: 06 Nov 06 - 03:39 PM

I was 52 when I was diagnosed

Here you go from BUPA

Causes and risk factors
Bladder cancer usually forms from the cells inside the bladder. It is mainly a disease of older people. Half of bladder tumours occur in people over the age of 70 and the disease is very rare in people under 40 years of age.

The exact causes of bladder cancer are not clear, but smoking is an important avoidable cause of the disease. Cancer-causing chemicals in tobacco smoke are absorbed into the blood, filtered out by the kidneys and then, as a part of the urine, stored in the bladder. In the long term, this appears to cause damage to the bladder lining. Smokers are two to three times more likely to develop bladder cancer than non smokers.

Environmental factors can also increase the risk of developing bladder cancer. These include certain chemicals once used in the rubber, paint, dye, printing and textile industries.

A family history of the disease, or chronic infection with the tropical diseases bilharzia also increase the risk of bladder cancer.



The last two paragraphs were not applicable.


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Subject: RE: Smoking/smoke can damage your voice.
From: The Villan
Date: 06 Nov 06 - 03:42 PM

By the way, if anybody p[lays golf, then a great way to beat your opponent if you are behind, is to tell your opponent all about how they go up your willie (especially when they are playing their shot).

Works every time LOL :-)


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Subject: RE: Smoking/smoke can damage your voice.
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 06 Nov 06 - 03:45 PM

" The exact causes of bladder cancer are not clear"

Because the exact cause of ANY cancer isn't clear....

so....

"smoking is an important avoidable cause of the disease"

... is the STOCK answer whenever the subject of cancer prevention comes up, because there seems to be a lot of evidence that it at least contributes....

But there's no way ANY doctor worth his salt will tell you "Smoking CAUSED your bladder cancer". It probably didn't HURT your chances of getting cancer, however.


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Subject: RE: Smoking/smoke can damage your voice.
From: Bernard
Date: 06 Nov 06 - 03:46 PM

Erm, isn't that cheating, Les?!! ;0)


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Subject: RE: Smoking/smoke can damage your voice.
From: The Villan
Date: 06 Nov 06 - 03:47 PM

OK Clinton, tell me what caused it then.

Too much shagging


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Subject: RE: Smoking/smoke can damage your voice.
From: Morticia
Date: 06 Nov 06 - 03:48 PM

I certainly noticed the difference when smokers were, politely, requested to step outside in the Middle Bar in Sidmouth. My voice used to last 3 days.....it stretched to 5. When I gave up myself ( dear heavens, nearly 2 years ago now) it went to 7, no bother.


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Subject: RE: Smoking/smoke can damage your voice.
From: The Villan
Date: 06 Nov 06 - 03:48 PM

Yes Bernard but it was great fun doing it with my mates LOL


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Subject: RE: Smoking/smoke can damage your voice.
From: Joybell
Date: 06 Nov 06 - 03:49 PM

Of course there are other carcinogens around like carbon monoxide - but -- and it's a big but - We don't shut ourselves into rooms full of running cars.
There are many studies out there on cancers in locations other than the respiratory system which suggest a link to cigarette smoke. Bladder and breast cancer are among them.

Over a singing career that spans 40 years I've heard all the arguments from smokers about why I have to put up with their habit. It's been 30 years since I was able to accept invitations to gatherings in restaurants, pubs, (and private homes where smoking is allowed). I have permanant breathing problems from working in smoke - as a singer and also as a nurse.
The ban didn't come soon enough for me. I am glad it came in time for my grandchildren.
Cheers, Joy


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Subject: RE: Smoking/smoke can damage your voice.
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 06 Nov 06 - 04:05 PM

"tell me what caused it then"

Read your own post.....

"The exact causes of bladder cancer are not clear"

"which suggest a link"
And the key word there is SUGGEST.... We simply don't KNOW yet.... Hopefully one day we will.

So keep donating $$ to cancer research
Quit smoking
Get some exercise
Eat a ballance diet
Support the ban on smoking in public spaces. (Smoking in a car or house where children are passangers/residents should be classified as child abuse if you ask me!)

You'll still drop dead someday.... but maybe it won't be cancer that gets you.


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Subject: RE: Smoking/smoke can damage your voice.
From: Bernard
Date: 06 Nov 06 - 04:06 PM

I once read that barbecue food had sufficient benzopyrenes to be considered just as dangerous as smoking...


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Subject: RE: Smoking/smoke can damage your voice.
From: Bernard
Date: 06 Nov 06 - 04:08 PM

Read this!


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Subject: RE: Smoking/smoke can damage your voice.
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 06 Nov 06 - 04:24 PM

When I started this thread the reason was my concern for people who suffer voice problems through smoking or smoke inhalation but it is sure interesting how the thread has developed. Thanks you for the interest.
Smoking and smoke inhalation have caused damage to the membranes in my nose and made me susceptible to infection in the ear/nose/throat/chest as a result. I have become very catarrhal and need to swallow heavy mucous as it runs down my throat from my nasal cavity as a matter of course. To swallow in the middle of a song is dashed inconvenient and to have lost some of the power I had in my voice even more so.....anyone else in the same situation?
Best wishes, Mike.


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Subject: RE: Smoking/smoke can damage your voice.
From: The Villan
Date: 06 Nov 06 - 04:39 PM

So you are a snot gobbler then Mike :-)


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Subject: RE: Smoking/smoke can damage your voice.
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 06 Nov 06 - 04:40 PM

Fraid so Les....makes life a little difficult but I get by. At least it's my own snot eh?


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Subject: RE: Smoking/smoke can damage your voice.
From: kendall
Date: 06 Nov 06 - 04:41 PM

Clinton, I wasn't aware of John Prine's recovery. Thanks. A bit of encouragement is always welcome.

I've had three top drawer specialists tell me that the type of cancer I had, Squamous cell carcinoma, is caused by chemicles such as those in cigarettes, and they are cock sure of that. The evidence is that it attacked my throat instead of my naughty bits, or some other part.
I don't know, but I do know they are more qualified than I to make such a statement.


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Subject: RE: Smoking/smoke can damage your voice.
From: The Sandman
Date: 06 Nov 06 - 04:46 PM

to joybell,
I am a nonsmoker and am very pleased about the non smoking ban. I have chosen to live in rural ireland, where there is very little carbon monoxide, but last time I walked down LONDON BRIDGE one misty morning early, I was overpowered by car fumes, Its just as much of a problem as cigarette smoke.


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Subject: RE: Smoking/smoke can damage your voice.
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 06 Nov 06 - 05:56 PM

"I wasn't aware of John Prine's recovery."
Hie thee hence and lay hands upon his last CD mate, "Fair And Square"

If you havn't heard it, there's really no point in even having ears, unless you really need them to hold your glasses on your face....

:-)


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Subject: RE: Smoking/smoke can damage your voice.
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Nov 06 - 06:17 PM

"I am a nonsmoker and am very pleased about the non smoking ban. I have chosen to live in rural ireland, where there is very little carbon monoxide, but last time I walked down LONDON BRIDGE one misty morning early, I was overpowered by car fumes, Its just as much of a problem as cigarette smoke."

I agree with you Cap'n (another first).
However, it seems the great and the good are only capable of concentrating on one thing at a time, so for the present, let's be grateful for small mercies.
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Smoking/smoke can damage your voice.
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 06 Nov 06 - 06:29 PM

In Oz smoking has been progressively banned in most indoor venues (businesses, shopping centres, restaurants, clubs, pubs) in most states. I don't know the exact details as I gave up smoking in 1976 & haven't spent much time in to pubs since our singing session died a few years ago when the new publican used our room as a Pool/Gambling, oops 'Gaming', room.

Sydney's best pub venue for folk has been non-smoking since the folk concerts started 4 or 5 years ago cos the organiser demands a non-smoking venue for his concerts. As the bar is next to the concert venue, smokers don't miss anything.

Oz's National Folk Festival Guiness Session Bar has also been non-smoking for the last few years due to the efforts of a folkie with a life-long immune deficiency who is severely allergic to a lot of things including cigarette smoke. Everyone knows that if someone smokes the bar will be closed immediately, and this keeps the place smoke free! Smokers congregate outside & everyone is happy.

More folk clubs are in community halls than in pubs so performers & audiences are in smoke-fre environments.

I remember the days of leaving clothes in the bathroom to air, & washing my hair before going to bed cos I smelled like an ashtray.

sandra


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Subject: RE: Smoking/smoke can damage your voice.
From: Rumncoke
Date: 06 Nov 06 - 06:34 PM

Tobacco smoke certainly affects me - even if the bar is suposed to be non smoking - like the middle bar in Sidmouth, there is almost always someone who thinks it doesn't apply to them and I have had many an evening ruined by being unable to escape at once when someone lights up close by. Even worse are the times when someone is so close by that their smoke sets me off coughing and I have to get out into the open air - even if it is in the middle of someone's song.

I have even had someone enquiring if I was alright whilst holding a cigarette within inches of my face, and then burn my arm as I forced their hand away.

Inhaling even a small amount of tobacco smoke wipes out the upper half of my vocal range for several hours.

Anne


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Subject: RE: Smoking/smoke can damage your voice.
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 06 Nov 06 - 06:34 PM

"Its just as much of a problem as cigarette smoke."
It's actually MUCH bigger... But being a much bigger problem, it also needs a MUCH bigger solution.


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Subject: RE: Smoking/smoke can damage your voice.
From: gnu
Date: 06 Nov 06 - 06:36 PM

It should be "more illegal" than any other drug. Fred Flinstone suckered me into it when I was five years old. I'd like to kick his sorry ass. But, he's rich.


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Subject: RE: Smoking/smoke can damage your voice.
From: GUEST,harvey andrews
Date: 06 Nov 06 - 06:52 PM

After over 20 years of working in smoky folk clubs I developed asthma. Now one cigar can close my throat, also candles on tables or cigarettes and perfumes. I began requesting no smoking at my gigs and found I lost work and suffered abuse for my request. I remember one internet thread where a guy posted about a gig I had done in the North East of England at his folk club. He said I went round putting up posters demanding non-smoking (actually the posters read "For medical reasons the artist politely requests no smoking") and that his wife smoked even more that night in protest. This was some years ago. Now all my gigs are non-smoking because most folk clubs operate that policy. One club posted that after my night the committee met and decided it was so much nicer that they would make no smoking club policy. Next August all gigs will be smoke free by law. It's been a long battle and at a cost to me, and other artists with similar problems, but it's a battle good as won, and I'm glad for those young performers who will be working in smoke free environments in the future.


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Subject: RE: Smoking/smoke can damage your voice.
From: kendall
Date: 06 Nov 06 - 07:25 PM

The big difference between the exhaust fumes and tobacco smoke is, you don't HAVE to smoke.


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Subject: RE: Smoking/smoke can damage your voice.
From: Dartford Warbler
Date: 06 Nov 06 - 07:40 PM

A couple of artists appearing at Dartford Folk Club requested that people at the front of house should refrain from smoking. The organisers decided that should be the case every folk club night. Smokers go to the back rows. It works well but then it is a large venue.

Roll on August 2007 in the UK! (IMHO)


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Subject: RE: Smoking/smoke can damage your voice.
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Nov 06 - 02:45 AM

Two examples of how well the smoking ban has worked in Ireland.
On several occasions we have driven through towns here late (2-am - 2.30am) to find illegal drinkers huddled outside pubs having a smoke - it's apparently ok to drink after hours, but......
Just after the ban was implemented one of our local bars organised a week-end away in Lewes, Sussex. One of the group persistently went outside for a smoke, and on being told that he didn't need to do this in Lewes he said, "It doesn't feel right anymore".
I agree with Cap'n Birdseye (a first) about carbon monoxide emissions, but as the great and the good who reign over us seem only to be capable of getting their heads around one problem at a time, let us be grateful for small mercies (for the time being) and not divert the attention away from one problem partially solved by pointing out another one.
Jim Carroll


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Mudcat time: 15 February 6:03 PM EST

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