Dylan show bombs on Broadway

Subject: RE: Dylan show bombs on Broadway
From: Cool Beans
Date: 10 Nov 06 - 03:56 PM

Not that he needs the money, but Bob stood to reap substantial royalties from a long-running Broadway show. Wonder if there'll be a cast album. They do that sometimes for shows that flop, or in a few cases, that close before they reach Broadway,Sondheim's "Bounce" being one such. NOM (not our music) but it's quite good.

Subject: RE: Dylan show bombs on Broadway
From: GUEST,Bloody Hell
Date: 10 Nov 06 - 01:52 PM

There's no dearth of fools who will seek out the dilute abstractions of showtune culture, and that gasbag Billy Joel was perfect for the job.   

Another axample of this sort of idiocy was Bette Midler in "The Rose"; a completely square showtune-culture take on an ostensibly Joplinesque model. Midler has always had that once-removed, make-it-all-into-campy-Broadway air that undercuts any sort of directness and authenticity she tries to convey.

Actually, The Who have always been that way, too, despite the posturing. "Tommy" sounded to me like showtune-culture crap back then. "Maximum R&B" indeed... what bollocks. They never played any sort of R&B. Daltry was perfect for the "Jesus Christ Superstar" era; pity he never got to fulfill his role in that show.

Perhaps Bob thought, "Go ahead, Twyla, knock yourself out. Show the world your twerpy interpretations and define yourself that way. The songs are still there when you're done arting them up".

Subject: RE: Dylan show bombs on Broadway
From: JJ
Date: 10 Nov 06 - 08:31 AM

Ah, weelittledrummer, the famous "No girls, no gags, no chance" comment was made when the show was in New Haven and still called AWAY WE GO.

Many an out-of-town flop has been saved, and this was one. After New Haven the show went to Boston, where Rodgers, Hammerstein, et al made changes, and came to Broadway with a new title, OKLAHOMA! It was a smash.

Good thing the Internets wuzzn't yet invented, or it would have died in New Haven!

Subject: RE: Dylan show bombs on Broadway
From: M.Ted
Date: 10 Nov 06 - 02:15 AM

I've never liked Twyla Tharp--her choreographies are so gimmicky that MTV looks tasteful
in comparison. Her stuff is only about one thing, and that is to show how clever Twyla Tharp is--

She was successful with the Billy Joel show, "Movin' Out", and, generally,right after you do a big hit, they'll bankroll you for any damn fool thing you come up with, after which you become poison--

I am hearing that even Twyla Tharp fans hate this show. And this show is so bad that the "so bad it's good" people are fighting over tickets for the last show--there are some very talented performers in it, though, and I do feel sorry for them--

Subject: RE: Dylan show bombs on Broadway
From: Little Hawk
Date: 09 Nov 06 - 10:55 PM

Well, I agree that Bob's material lends itself to tribute shows...it's just a fact that I generally don't care much for Broadway musicals. Not to say I don't like ANY of them...it's just a genre that doesn't attract me much.

Subject: RE: Dylan show bombs on Broadway
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Nov 06 - 08:01 PM

I think Dillon plays better south of Canal Street.
Wahck Fall the Day
Nick

Subject: RE: Dylan show bombs on Broadway
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 09 Nov 06 - 07:51 PM

I'm not sure why you should feel that.

Perhaps once, these guys were a breed apart - but The Beatles, The Who, Abba, Queen have all had their songs made into musicals.

Dylan's songs have quiet elegaic moods, hard rocking moods, simple love song moods, comic story telling moods - theres a huge diversity.

And so many of them were autobiographical in nature - even if not in strict truth. There whole of his work is full of fascinating stories, and god knows the people who have a walk on part in that guys life are amongst the most intriguing and interesting people of the 20th century.

If they really can't devise a couple of hours entertainment from his life and songs - they must be pretty stupid. Ralph McTell is doing a sort of tribute show to his heroes at the moment and Dylan is amongst them. There must be dozens of people doing good business as Dylan tributes.

if they have gone wrong, I can't imagine how they have done it.

Subject: RE: Dylan show bombs on Broadway
From: Little Hawk
Date: 09 Nov 06 - 06:27 PM

Interesting that you should put it that way, Guest, Bloody Hell. That sums up in a nutshell my own reaction to about 98% of Broadway showtune culture. It's never interested me and never attracted me. I'm a huge Dylan fan. It strikes me as an exercise in consummate foolishness to try to turn his songs into a Broadway musical.

Subject: RE: Dylan show bombs on Broadway
From: GUEST,Bloody hell
Date: 09 Nov 06 - 06:15 PM

Broadway showtune culture is for morons in the audience and attention whores on the stage. Everyone involved with this sort of drivel should be ashamed. This fool looked like Macaulay Culkin channeling Mork. The only thing worse than the "performance" was Joy Behar and Rosie O'Donnell whoring it up in the intro. Those two have to go.

Subject: RE: Dylan show bombs on Broadway
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 09 Nov 06 - 06:10 PM

I knew I had read something about the initial reaction of the critics to Oklahoma:-

"When the show opened for previews in New Haven in March 1943, Variety gave it a poor review and columnist Walter Winchell reported his secretary's cold dismissal – "No gags, no girls, no chance."

Subject: RE: Dylan show bombs on Broadway
From: Cool Beans
Date: 09 Nov 06 - 03:23 PM

Hey, Jeremiah, thanks for the video link. I just watched it. It was risibly godawful, like a Las Vegas revue but without the taste.
The chorus line kick on the line "You shouldn't let other people get your KICKS (emphasis theirs) for you" was the piece de resistance. That's the first thing an amateur director would think of doing--and then, if she/he were a good amateur director, decide NOT to do.
The prop fake guitar was also priceless. I used to think the Brady Bunch singing "American Pie" was the low point of western civilization but I am doing some serious re-thinking.
No wonder the show bombed.
P.S., I am a theater critic, that's what I do for a living (far from New York), and I'm enjoying the conversation.

Subject: RE: Dylan show bombs on Broadway
From: Little Hawk
Date: 09 Nov 06 - 02:59 PM

As I said when I posted earlier (but my post inexplicably vanished...ALERT!!! Shambles! ALERT!!! ;-) ) ...

I may have seen a worse live performance of "Like A Rolling Stone"...but I'm not sure when! YECCCCHHHH!

Truly laughable. Looks like the critics are right on the mark to me.

Subject: RE: Dylan show bombs on Broadway
From: GUEST,wordy
Date: 09 Nov 06 - 02:50 PM

Well, I've watched the video.
Dear oh dear!
Good grief!
What!!!!!

Subject: RE: Dylan show bombs on Broadway
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 09 Nov 06 - 02:33 PM

"Why? They're paid to write readable columns in the press."

And how do you think they EARN those jobs? By showing that they are knowledgable in that subject....

" good or enjoyable"
Like the two are the same thing.... Not! Let's not confuse Like&Dislike with Good&Bad o.k...... Any critic worth his salt knows the difference....

Subject: RE: Dylan show bombs on Broadway
From: Jeremiah McCaw
Date: 09 Nov 06 - 02:04 PM

But McGrath, that would mean that film critics like Rex Reed simply wouldn't have a career!

Hmm, not such a bad thing. :-)

Subject: RE: Dylan show bombs on Broadway
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 09 Nov 06 - 01:10 PM

Why? They're paid to write readable columns in the press. And its much easier to be funny knocking things than praising them.

Ideally it'd be better to have a system where a critic would only write reviews of stuff they thought was good or enjoyable. "Didn't like it" would be sufficient to deal with the stuff they didn't like. That would take away the pressure to knock stuff just for the sake of being entertaining.

Subject: RE: Dylan show bombs on Broadway
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 09 Nov 06 - 12:55 PM

"What do frigging critics know anyway...?"

Probably a lot more than most people in this thread....

Subject: RE: Dylan show bombs on Broadway
From: catspaw49
Date: 09 Nov 06 - 12:41 PM

Seamus, I think you might have it right!

Spaw

Subject: RE: Dylan show bombs on Broadway
From: The Shambles
Date: 09 Nov 06 - 12:38 PM

Spamalot was a hit............

Did Bob's show have any Spam in it?

Subject: RE: Dylan show bombs on Broadway
From: Steve-o
Date: 09 Nov 06 - 12:34 PM

Hey, if Paul Simon can bomb, Bobby has every right to bomb. And "he approved the staging"??? We all know how good he is at that stuff, judging from his movies, right? Why do these guys feel the need to do this kind of junk? Whoever put up the $8.5 million deserves to have his Twyla tharped!

Subject: RE: Dylan show bombs on Broadway
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 09 Nov 06 - 09:12 AM

Obviously I was misinformed.

Subject: RE: Dylan show bombs on Broadway
From: Wesley S
Date: 09 Nov 06 - 08:49 AM

The "Lennon" show bombed too. But shows about the Four Seasons and ABBA are hits? To quote Danny Kaye in "White Christmas" :

"The theater - the theater - what has happened to the theater?"

Subject: RE: Dylan show bombs on Broadway
From: JJ
Date: 09 Nov 06 - 08:33 AM

"I'd be pretty cautious accepting the verdict of New York critics about anything - they were the ones who managed to kill off the first staging of Oklahoma - gang of idiots! "

What the devil are you talking about? The first production of OKLAHOMA! ran for five years.

Subject: RE: Dylan show bombs on Broadway
From: Seamus Kennedy
Date: 09 Nov 06 - 08:17 AM

Why does the plot of 'The Producers' keep coming to mind?

Seamus

Subject: RE: Dylan show bombs on Broadway
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 09 Nov 06 - 06:58 AM

Don't know much about Twyla Tharp, but her name appears on a Lenny Bruce album cover, and in the credits for Amadeus - that's pretty cool by my reckoning. Lenny knew quality when saw it, and Amadeus was a masterpiece.

What do frigging critics know anyway...? I'd be pretty cautious accepting the verdict of New York critics about anything - they were the ones who managed to kill off the first staging of Oklahoma - gang of idiots!

Subject: RE: Dylan show bombs on Broadway
From: Jeremiah McCaw
Date: 08 Nov 06 - 10:21 PM

Don't mourn over much. Just because the songs are great doesn't mean the production is. Just because Dylan (reportedly) approved of the staging doesn't mean it is.
Go here for a vid of a cast appearance on "The View" to get an idea of what you (haven't) missed.

Subject: RE: Dylan show bombs on Broadway
From: SINSULL
Date: 08 Nov 06 - 10:21 PM

Well, it lasted longer than Donnie Osmonds "Little Johnnie Jones" which closed in opening previews when only his parents and sister attended. He was not a Yankee Doodle Dandy.

Subject: RE: Dylan show bombs on Broadway
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 08 Nov 06 - 09:58 PM

I keep on reading this as "Dylan shows bombs on Broadway". I suppose that reflects the times we live in.

Subject: RE: Dylan show bombs on Broadway
From: catspaw49
Date: 08 Nov 06 - 09:56 PM

Hit me a little lower Mack.......Kinda' gave me the shits.   I'm surprised it didn't close even sooner.........just not a great idea if anyone had asked me.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Dylan show bombs on Broadway
From: mack/misophist
Date: 08 Nov 06 - 08:20 PM

IMHO. Twyla Tharp has always been way overated. Furthermore, imagining her style and Dylan's combined makes my stomach ache.

Subject: Dylan show bombs on Broadway
From: Cool Beans
Date: 08 Nov 06 - 07:53 PM

"The Times They Are A-Changin'" Twyla Tharp's show built around Bob Dylan's songs has posted a closing notice for Nov. 19. If anyone was planning to see it, this is your last chance. The show got hammered by the New York critics and will lose all of its $8.5 million investment.
I read many of those bad reviews but they made the show sound interesting. I'm sorry I'll never get to see it. On the other hand, that's another $100 I won't have to spend.