Origins: Tandem or donkey: Which came first?

Subject: Origins: Tandem or donkey: Which came first?
From: Mr Happy
Date: 09 Nov 06 - 10:21 AM

Tandem or donkey: Which came first?

There쳌fs a well known song, 쳌eDaisy Bell or A bicycle made for two쳌f

[DT here: @displaysong.cfm?SongID=1439]

I came across a similar composition, titled 쳌eSarah, Sarah, or A Donkey Cart Built for two쳌f, here:


http://bodley24.bodley.ox.ac.uk/cgi-bin/acwwweng/ballads/image.pl?ref=Firth+b.28(6a/b)&id=25997a.gif:25997b.gif:25997c.gif:25997 - check out Page 1.

Anyone know which came first?

Subject: RE: Origins: Tandem or donkey: Which came first?
From: Paul Burke
Date: 09 Nov 06 - 10:34 AM

The Wikipedia article on 'Daisy, Daisy' mentions both, but whoever wrote that couldn't determine the order. Daisy bell is 1892, but the references in Sarah, Sahrah and the surrounding songs don't give many clues. I'd say from the dress that it was 1880s rather than 1890s.

Subject: RE: Origins: Tandem or donkey: Which came first?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 09 Nov 06 - 12:48 PM

The Bodleian Library dates the sheets to between 1877-1884.

Firth b.28(10a/b)
R. March and Co., London.
Title- "Sarah." or "A Donkey Cart Built for Two."
Author- Harry Bedford
Performer- Kate Carney

Subject: RE: Origins: Tandem or donkey: Which came first?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 09 Nov 06 - 01:08 PM

Sheet music of "Daisy Bell" gives the composer, words and music, as Harry Dacre. T. B. Harms and Co., NY, 1892. Also published in England, Francis, Day & Hunter, London.

Harry Dacre was English, but he wrote the song while visiting the United States. Copies deposited at the Library of Congress and the British Museum are American editions. Katie Lawrence made the song famous. James J. Fuld, "The Book of World-Famous Music," 3rd. ed., Dover, 1985, pp. 188-189.

Subject: RE: Origins: Tandem or donkey: Which came first?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 09 Nov 06 - 02:42 PM

Kilgariff (P. 565) says "Sarah, or A Donkey Cart Built for Two," was first performed in 1893 by Kate Carney.

Harry Dacre (1860-1922) is listed by Kilgariff (p. 421) as composer of "Daisy Bell," 1892.
Katie Lawrence (1870-1913) scored a hit with "Daisy Bell" ("Bicycle Built for Two") on the London stage in 1893. Kilgariff lists many of her songs (p. 250-251).

Kate Carney (Kate Pattinson)- 1868-1950. Well-known singer-comedian on variety-music hall stages. Kilgariff lists almost 100 of her songs. She also sang American songs, e. g., "Sidewalks of New York" (1894).

Harry Bedford- 1873-1939. A comedian, one of the greats of Cockney songs.
Many songs listed in Michael Kilgariff.

Kilgariff, Michael, 1998, "Sing Us One of the Old Songs," 848 pp., Oxford University Press.

The Bodleian Library has put the date of the song sheet printing of "Sarah" too early- it should be 1893 or later.

"Daisy Bell" may be first, but the two songs are almost contemporaneous.

Subject: RE: Origins: Tandem or donkey: Which came first?
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 09 Nov 06 - 09:28 PM

G'day Q<

Thanks! In passing, you have answered a question nagging me for some years: "Who was the "Kate Carney" depicted on "Kate Carney's Favourite" mouthorgans of late 19th c. / early 20th c.? I couldn't see how she related to the Irish literary character ... especially as these were said to be (~) as 'played by "Kate Carney's Ensemble".

Regards,

Bob

Subject: RE: Origins: Tandem or donkey: Which came first?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 10 Nov 06 - 03:57 PM

I bought Kilgariff's book and was disappointed because I thought it had some of the old music hall songs.
I have learned to appreciate it because it lists comprehensively the performers, composers and routines of the 19th c. stage and music hall in the UK (many also performed from time to time in the U. S. and Australia). Now a valued reference.