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Lyr Req: 'Song' John Clare

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Lyr Req: Ocean's Glory - John Clare Notebook (5)
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Lyr Req: Married a Soldier (John Clare, G Tyrall) (6)
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A Vision by John Clare online sound poem (2)


GUEST,Ana 16 Nov 06 - 04:43 AM
Paul Burke 16 Nov 06 - 07:22 AM
GUEST,Jane 16 Nov 06 - 10:26 PM
GUEST,Ana 17 Nov 06 - 03:06 AM
GUEST,Shimrod 17 Nov 06 - 12:53 PM
GUEST,Gordon T 17 Nov 06 - 01:18 PM
GUEST 17 Nov 06 - 03:43 PM
GUEST 17 Nov 06 - 06:53 PM
RTim 17 Nov 06 - 07:04 PM
GUEST,Gordon T 17 Nov 06 - 07:21 PM
GUEST 17 Nov 06 - 07:30 PM
GUEST,Ana 17 Nov 06 - 07:36 PM
GUEST,Shimrod 18 Nov 06 - 06:22 AM
Q (Frank Staplin) 18 Nov 06 - 02:33 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 18 Nov 06 - 02:35 PM
michaelr 18 Nov 06 - 07:06 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 18 Nov 06 - 07:25 PM
GUEST 18 Nov 06 - 08:23 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 18 Nov 06 - 09:13 PM
GUEST,Shimrod 19 Nov 06 - 06:04 AM
GUEST,Jane 19 Nov 06 - 07:28 PM
GUEST,Gordon T 20 Nov 06 - 10:12 AM
michaelr 20 Nov 06 - 03:20 PM
GUEST,Gordon T 20 Nov 06 - 03:23 PM
GUEST 06 Dec 15 - 11:08 AM
Steve Gardham 06 Dec 15 - 02:58 PM
GUEST,Email from George Deacon 20 Dec 17 - 08:07 PM
Steve Gardham 21 Dec 17 - 11:04 AM
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Subject: Lyr Req: 'Song' John Clare
From: GUEST,Ana
Date: 16 Nov 06 - 04:43 AM

I'm really (really!) keen to find the words for "Song' which may also be known as " Heaven would be near you" - it is from a poem by John Clare, and has been arranged to music by Gordon Tyrrell - sorry I can't transcribe it - heard it on the radio.

It is really gorgeous! - a credit to Gordon T - so hope someone else has been captured by it as well.

Cheers


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Song' John Clare
From: Paul Burke
Date: 16 Nov 06 - 07:22 AM

You could try searching through John Clare's poems.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Song' John Clare
From: GUEST,Jane
Date: 16 Nov 06 - 10:26 PM

That John Clare site is not as inclusive as it would like to think ;->

The lines are from John Clare's collection "The Midsummer Cushion" - not published till 1979 though he died in 1874. Should be possible to get a copy second-hand or through the library without too much trouble.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Song' John Clare
From: GUEST,Ana
Date: 17 Nov 06 - 03:06 AM

Cheers Jane - yes (and thanks too Paul) I had tried googling and the Clare site etc, but the poem is quite elusive. I suspect the book will be as well - in the Southern hemisphere!

Good to have the tip re Midsummer Cushion though, but I suspect that if no-one else can help, the words might just have to find me!

Ana


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Song' John Clare
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 17 Nov 06 - 12:53 PM

I've been searching through my copy of 'The Midsummer Cushion' (eds. Anne Tibble and RKR Thornton, Mid Northumberland Arts Group in association with Carcanet Press, 1979)and the closest poem I can find is the following 'Song':

Sweet pleasures I do find
Lovely Jessey near thee
When every green with flowers is lined
& linnets sing to cheer thee
Then my love so fair so kind
Tis heaven while I'm near the - Jessey
Heaven while I'm near thee

Though tis not the charms of spring
Can add a charm to cheer me
When every pleasure took to wing
& left pasture dreary
When every bird forgot to sing
Tis heaven to be near thee - Jessey
Heaven to be near thee

Left to winters frost & snow
When storms descend severly
Left with birds to pick the slow
& left with thee to cheer me
Still while lifes red tide shall flow
Heaven would be near thee - Jessey
Heaven would be near thee

Banished to some barren isle
Where famine scowled severely
Jessey blest with thee the while
Till life was left to cheer me
Still on fate & thee I'd smile
For heaven would be near thee - Jessey
Heaven would be near thee

I hope that this is the right poem!

I'm not sure but I think that there might be a more recent edition 'The Midsummer Cushion' from MidNAG/Carcanet Press.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Song' John Clare
From: GUEST,Gordon T
Date: 17 Nov 06 - 01:18 PM

Hi Ana - thanks for the commendation! It is from the Midsummer Cushion,the Carcanet edition,and is the version Shimrod above has suggested,but I have modified it a little,not consciously for the most part,but just by singing it.I know a lot of people like this song,and sing it too - which is great.This is what I sing;

Sweet the pleasures I do find
Lovely Jessie near thee
When every green with flowers is lined
And linnets sing to cheer thee
Then my love so fair and kind
Its heaven to be near thee
Heaven to be near thee
Heaven to be near thee

Though its not the charms of spring
Can add a charm to cheer me
When every pleasure's took to wing
And left the pastures dreary
When every bird's forgot to sing
Its heaven while I'm near thee

Left to winter's frost and snow
Where storms descend severely
Left with birds to pick the sloe
Left with them to cheer me
Still,while life's red tide shall flow
Heaven would be near thee

Banished to some barren isle
Where famine scowls severely
Jessie blest with thee the while
Til life was left to cheer me
Still on fate with thee I'd smile
For heaven would be near thee

Gordon


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Song' John Clare
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Nov 06 - 03:43 PM

Lots of the John Clare stuff is still in copyright, unfortunately. All of the material not published in his lifetime belongs to an American academic and permission is needed to use it.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Song' John Clare
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Nov 06 - 06:53 PM

Hey Gordon! thanks so much - I'd even googled you :)

I heard 'Song' on BBC folk - what a great resource, and intro to such a wonderful range of music on distant shores. My CD collection has expanded as a result - the internet truly is a wonderful thing.

I really appreciated what you had done with the poem, and realised that there would have been some changes to accommodate it into song verse. It's been a lovely introduction to to John Clare.

I hadn't picked 'Jessie' out of the words - now I'll really be able to drive my daughter (of the same name) nuts! It will be a special one to learn.

Thanks for the original version as well Shimrod - lovely to have the original version.

Ana


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Song' John Clare
From: RTim
Date: 17 Nov 06 - 07:04 PM

I am intrigued?
A Guest says
"Lots of the John Clare stuff is still in copyright, unfortunately. All of the material not published in his lifetime belongs to an American academic and permission is needed to use it."

As I thought Clare spent the latter part of his life in a mental institution, and much of his work was kept from the public - Who owns the copyrights?
I am sure George Deacon can shed some light on this - maybe it's George who owns the rights and that is why he doesn't perform anymore?

Tim Radford


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Song' John Clare
From: GUEST,Gordon T
Date: 17 Nov 06 - 07:21 PM

No its not George Deacon - there is an american academic who claims to own the copyright - he bought it for £5 off someone or other.Clare died in 1864,so ordinarily would be outside copyright.Its a murky situation and I've tangled with this guy.The whole thing is appalling - dont go there!

Gordon


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Song' John Clare
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Nov 06 - 07:30 PM

Information on the John Clare copyright dispute here:

http://www.johnclare.info/copyright.htm


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Song' John Clare
From: GUEST,Ana
Date: 17 Nov 06 - 07:36 PM

- yes, I thought the concept on its own was appalling (which is why I didn't 'go there') when I read Guests comment re copyright.

Seems such a strange parallel to Clare's incarceration, to that of his verse also. Just as he revelled in the spirituality of nature, I'm sure he would not have wished for the beauty of of his experience to be denied to others.

Ana


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Song' John Clare
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 18 Nov 06 - 06:22 AM

"Lots of the John Clare stuff is still in copyright, unfortunately. All of the material not published in his lifetime belongs to an American academic and permission is needed to use it."

The person who owns the copyright to Clare's work is Eric Robinson. Prof. Robinson is actually English and lives in America and, until recently, taught at an American university.
Prof. Robinson's ownership of the copyright has been endlessly debated (follow the link above) and I don't intend to attempt to explore the 'rights and wrongs' here. But what should not be forgotten is that Robinson is the greatest editor that Clare ever had. He has transcribed every word that Clare ever wrote and, along with various co-editors, brought it into print (something that Clare could never have dreamed of in his day). Because most people stumble across a poem here or a poem there they, perhaps, don't appreciate what a prolific poet Clare actually was. He must have been scribbling on most days of his adult life (even while incarcerated). He often wrote on odd scraps of paper and, like many people, his handwriting left something to be desired. When you couple that with his supremely idiosyncratic style, Eric Robinson's achievement becomes truly monumental! I doubt whether Clare's name would be quite so well known today if it hadn't have been for Eric Robinson's lifetime of endeavour.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Song' John Clare
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 18 Nov 06 - 02:33 PM

1. Martin, Frederick & Robinson, Eric, Summerfield, G., "The Life of John Clare," Macmillan, London.
2. Robinson, E., and Summerfield, G., "Clare," Oxford.
3. Robinson, E., "John Clare's Birds. Oxford Press.
4. Robinson, E., and Summerfield, G., Editors, 1967, "Selected Poems and Prose of John Clare," Oxford Press.
5. Clare, John, ed. Robinson, E., and Summerfield, G., 1964, "The Shepherd's Calendar," Oxford Press.
6. Robinson, E., Powell, D., and Dawson, P. M. S, 1998, "The Later Poems of John Clare, 1837-1964," VOL. I, II . Oxford Press.
7. Clare, John, ed. Robinson, Powell and Dawson, 1998, "Poems of the Middle Period," VOL. III-IV, Oxford Press.
8. Robinson, E., Powell, D., & Grainger, M., Eds., 1899, "The Early Poems of John Clare, 1804-1822," VOL. I, II. Oxford Press.
9. Clare, John, and Robinson, E. (ed.), 1990, "The Hue and Cry," Tern Press; limited edition on handmade paper.
10. John Clare, 1993, "Verses for His Children," Tern press, limited edition.
(The last two are selections from previous volumes)

The poems and papers are carefully published by Robinson and his group of scholars.
I agree with Shimrod that their work is monumental.
As I am sure Gordon Tyrell did, Oxford Press and the editors should be approached for use of specific material.
The six volumes of poems are not cheap, but few realize the expense involved in putting together, accurately edited, a work of this magnitude.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Song' John Clare
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 18 Nov 06 - 02:35 PM

I have probably missed some material published by these scholars of Clare's work.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Song' John Clare
From: michaelr
Date: 18 Nov 06 - 07:06 PM

So, Gordon -- how did you go about recording this song? Did you ask permission, pay royalties or licensing fees etc, or did you go the route of Simon Kovesi who in effect told Robinson "prove your claim" and published Clare's work without permission?

I'm interested because I'd like to record some of his texts, set to music, myself.

Cheers,
Michael


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Song' John Clare
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 18 Nov 06 - 07:25 PM

Go first to Oxford Press, the publisher; they will contact the other copyright holders.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Song' John Clare
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Nov 06 - 08:23 PM

Copyright law is an ass. John Clare's manuscripts should be in the public domain and no-one should be forced, all these years later, to use the material only in a manner that is approved of by Robinson. If it were in the public domain Robinson would still be able to edit critical editions (it never stopped Shakespeare scholars).


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Song' John Clare
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 18 Nov 06 - 09:13 PM

Clare's material is being assessed, edited and published properly. Future scholars will thank Robinson, his co-editors, and Oxford Press. A new Authors reprint edition of his major works has been released by Oxford. Major Works- John Clare.

For those interested, The John Clare Society is worth a look: http://www.johnclare.org.uk. They are preparing a list of his poems that have been set to music.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Song' John Clare
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 19 Nov 06 - 06:04 AM

I would also like to recommend the John Clare Society (I've been a member for nearly 25 years now). The annual festival is particularly good. It is held in John Clare's village of Helpston (near Peterborough)on the Saturday closest to the poet's birthday - 13th July. This year (2006) was particularly exciting: apart from the usual goodies - an address by our President, Ronald Blythe, guided walks around Clare's village and countryside, poetry readings in the church, dances by Peterborough Morris etc., etc., Clare's cottage was opened to the public for the first time, a dedicated local group, called 'The Langdyke Trust' revealed their latest project - the conversion of an historic barn into a local museum and exhibition centre and the day ended with an excellent folk concert. If all this wasn't enough it was revealed that Richard Mabey (one of my all time favourite writers) would be our new patron! Keep an eye on the Society website for details on next year's festival.

Clare is such an important figure and his fame grows year by year. Anyone interested in romantic poetry, traditional music and song, landscape history, ornithology, botany and green issues generally would benefit by knowing something of his work.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Song' John Clare
From: GUEST,Jane
Date: 19 Nov 06 - 07:28 PM

Edward Storey, a poet and co-founder of the John Clare Society, ran a one-day forum on Clare at Discoed in May this year. I was there and took the chance to buy "The wood is sweet", a new Clare anthology with woodcuts by Cary Akroyd. Well worth the price/

The day included some singing too - I hope Edward will organise another such, some time.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Song' John Clare
From: GUEST,Gordon T
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 10:12 AM

Specifically to michaelr - I did an entire album of Clare material,called A Distance From The Town.No permission was asked of anyone,why should it be?
To me the idea that someone feels he can own a dead authors' work purely through the agency of buying that right both arrogant and impertinent.Prof Robinson may well have academic authority,but if his work is of value it should be able to stand up against other's appraisals of Clare.

   Gordon


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Song' John Clare
From: michaelr
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 03:20 PM

Thanks, Gordon. Where might one purchase a copy of your album?

Cheers,
Michael


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Song' John Clare
From: GUEST,Gordon T
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 03:23 PM

Hi Michael,its on Fellside FECD129 so you could get it from them.I carry a few around too when I do gigs.

       Gordon


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Song' John Clare
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Dec 15 - 11:08 AM

Thought I would let folks know that although the paperback of John Clare and the Folk Tradition is out of print I do have some of the first edition hardback available: John Clare and the Folk Tradition

George Deacon


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Song' John Clare
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 06 Dec 15 - 02:58 PM

Just picked up a copy of Hugh Lupton's historical novel 'The Ballad of John Clare' 2010. Fascinating stuff.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Song' John Clare
From: GUEST,Email from George Deacon
Date: 20 Dec 17 - 08:07 PM

Hi, every now and then I do the whole ego thing of Googling myself, I understand that this isn't really bad for your health. I frequently find myself meandering through your Forums, finding names from my past and generally enjoying myself. So thanks for the site and the pleasure.

When my musical partnership with Marion Ross came to a musical end I was in the middle of researching and then publishing a collection of songs, tunes, customs and folklore made by the 19th century poet John Clare. Clare's collection is unique, the earliest made in Southern England ( about 1820), made by a participant in the tradition and from an pre-industrial village. Clare went on to become one of the finest poets of his age and is now regarded as perhaps the greatest poet of English nature. He was, however, the son of an illiterate mother and semi-literate father who, when not incapacitated by ill health, worked as a labourer.

I was also at the start of a PhD on Mining Song and Social History, completed but sadly never published. However my Clare book was published and the republished in Paperback. Although the Paperback is now sold out I do hold a small stock of the original Hardback which I sell via a website: http://johnclareandthefolktradition.zohosites.com. I wondered if you would be prepared to put up a link on your website.

Many thanks,

George Deacon


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Song' John Clare
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 21 Dec 17 - 11:04 AM

Hi, George,
You already have.
I use your book on a regular basis for all sorts of reasons and quote it in my articles. Most recently Clare's version of The Riddle Song which he obviously used as a vehicle in Burns style. I quote you fairly regularly on Mudcat as well.

Many thanks for your fascinating work.


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