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DTStudy: Get Up, Jack! John, Sit Down!
DigiTrad:
GET UP JACK! JOHN, SIT DOWNwn
GET UP, JACK! JOHN, SIT DOWN!
JOLLY ROVING TAR
Related thread:
Lyr Req/Origins: My Jolly Roving Tar (43)
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Subject: DTStudy: Get Up, Jack! John, Sit Down! From: Joe Offer Date: 21 Nov 06 - 08:46 PM This is an edited DTStudy thread, and all messages posted here are subject to editing and deletion. This thread is intended to serve as a forum for corrections and annotations for the Digital Tradition song named in the title of this thread. Search for other DTStudy threadsThe thread on My Jolly Roving Tar is getting a lot of discussion of "Get Up, Jack! John, Sit Down!" which, for reasons that are completely understandable, is also called "Jolly Roving Tar." Maybe we should explore "Jack" and see what we can find about it. There are two versions in the DT: GET UP JACK! JOHN, SIT DOWNwn Ships may come and ships may go As long as the sea does roll. Each sailor lad just like his dad, He loves the flowing bowl. A trip ashore he does adore With a girl that's plump and round. When your money's all gone It's the same old song, ``Get up Jack! John, sit down!'' Come along, come along, You jolly brave boys, There's lots of grog in the jar. We'll plough the briny ocean With the jolly roving tar. When Jack gets in, it's then he'll steer For some old boarding house. They'll welcome him with run and gin, They'll feed him on pork scouse. He'll lend and spend and not offend Till he lies drunk on the ground When... He then will sail aboard some ship For India or Japan In Asia there, the ladies fair All love the sailor men. He'll go ashore and on a tear He'll buy some girl a gown. When... When Jack gets old and weatherbeat, Too old to roam about, In some rum shop, they'll let him stop Till eight bells calls him out. He'll raise his eyes up to the skies, Sayin' ``Boys, we're homeward bound.'' When... collected by Frank Warner from Lena Bourne Fish Recorded by Frank Warner, Jeff Warner filename[ JACKJOHN TUNE FILE: JACKJOHN CLICK TO PLAY BR Oh, the ships will come and the ships will go, As long as waves do roll The sailor lad, likewise his dad, He loves the flowing bowl: A lass ashore we do adore, One that is plump and round, round, round. When the money is gone, it's the same old song, Get up, Jack! John, sit down! Chorus: Singing, Hey! laddie, ho! laddie, Swing the capstan 'round,'round,'round When the money is gone it's the same old song, Get up, Jack! John, sit down! [I] go and take a trip in a man-o'-war To China or Japan, In Asia, there are ladies fair Who love the sailorman. When Jack and Joe palavers, 0, And buy the girls a gown, gown, gown. When the money is gone it's the same old song, Get up, Jack! John, sit down! When Jack is ashore he beats his way Towards some boarding-house: He's welcome in with his rum and gin, And he's fed with pork and s[c]ouse: For he'll spend and spend and never offend But he'll lay drunk on the ground, ground, ground When my money is gone it's the same old song: Get up, Jack! John, sit down! When Jack is old and weatherbeat, Too old to roustabout, In some rum-shop they'll let him stop, At eight bells he's turned out. Then he cries, he cries up to the skies: I'll soon be homeward bound, bound, bound." When my money is gone it's the same old song: Get up, Jack! John, sit down! From American Ballads and Folk Songs, Lomax This song was sung and written down by John Thomas, a Welch sailor on the Philadelphia, in 1896 @sailor @age @drink filename[ GETUPJCK RG PLEASE NOTE: Because of the volunteer nature of The Digital Tradition, it is difficult to ensure proper attribution and copyright information for every song included. Please assume that any song which lists a composer is copyrighted ©. You MUST aquire proper license before using these songs for ANY commercial purpose. If you have any additional information or corrections to the credit or copyright information included, please e-mail those additions or corrections to us (along with the song title as indexed) so that we can update the database as soon as possible. Thank You. Get Up, Jack! John, Sit Down!DESCRIPTION: A song of the eternal tasks of the sailor, repeated from generation to generation. The sailors all enjoy their rum, find girls in the towns, get drunk, spend their money, and have to return to sea, as their fathers did before him.AUTHOR: Words: Edward Harrigan / Music: David Braham EARLIEST DATE: 1885 ("Old Lavender") KEYWORDS: sailor work drink FOUND IN: US(MA,NE) REFERENCES (5 citations): Warner 71, "The Jolly Roving Tar" (1 text, 1 tune) Lomax-FSNA 33, "Get Up, Jack" (1 text, 1 tune) Lomax-ABFS, pp. 493-494, "Get Up, Jack! John, Sit Down!" (1 text) Shay-SeaSongs, pp. 147-148, "Homeward Bound" (1 text, 1 tune, filed by Roud with "Homeward Bound (I)," but without the chorus of that song and with mention of Jack and John in the final verse; it may be mixed) DT, GETUPJCK JACKJOHN Roud #2807 RECORDINGS: Stanley Baby, "Homeward Bound" (on GreatLakes1) ALTERNATE TITLES: Outward Bound Notes: Reportedly written by Edward Harrigan and his father-in-law David Braham for the play "Old Lavender," which is listed as premiering September 1, 1885. (Information supplied by Philip Harrigan Sheedy.) The song has since entered oral tradition, as known versions exhibit significant variations. - DGE, RBW File: Wa071 Go to the Ballad Search form The Ballad Index Copyright 2006 by Robert B. Waltz and David G. Engle. Note: the song in Shay, "Homeward Bound," was posted in this thread (click). The ballad index included the song in the "Get Up Jack" entry because Roud included it, even though Roud may be mistaken. Anybody have other versions, corrections to the DT lyrics? I thought Jolly Roving Tar was the name of Jack's ship - am I wrong? Get Up, Jack! John, Sit Down!DESCRIPTION: A song of the eternal tasks of the sailor, repeated from generation to generation. The sailors all enjoy their rum, find girls in the towns, get drunk, spend their money, and have to return to sea, as their fathers did before him.AUTHOR: Words: Edward Harrigan / Music: David Braham EARLIEST DATE: 1885 (expanded version of the play "Old Lavender") KEYWORDS: sailor work drink FOUND IN: US(MA,NE) Britain(England(North)) REFERENCES (7 citations): HarriganBrahamFinson, vol. II, #114, pp. 114-116, "Get Up, Jack -- John, Sit Down" (1 text, 1 tune) Kidson-Tunes, pp. 106-108, "Outward Bound" (1 text, 1 tune) Warner 71, "The Jolly Roving Tar" (1 text, 1 tune) Lomax-FSNA 33, "Get Up, Jack" (1 text, 1 tune) Lomax-ABFS, pp. 493-494, "Get Up, Jack! John, Sit Down!" (1 text) ADDITIONAL: Captain John Robinson, "Songs of the Chantey Man," a series published July-August 1917 in the periodical _The Bellman_ (Minneapolis, MN, 1906-1919). "We're Homeward Bound" is in Part 4, 8/4/1917. DT, GETUPJCK JACKJOHN Roud #2807 RECORDINGS: Stanley Baby, "Homeward Bound" (on GreatLakes1) Lena Bourne Fish, "Jolly Rocing Tar" (on USWarnerColl01) Mick Moloney, "Get Up Jack John Sit down" (on HarriganBrahamMaloney) CROSS-REFERENCES: cf. "Outward and Homeward Bound" ALTERNATE TITLES: Outward Bound NOTES [713 words]: Written by Edward Harrigan and his father-in-law David Braham for the play "Old Lavender," which is listed as premiering September 1, 1885. (Information supplied by Philip Harrigan Sheedy.) "Old Lavender" actually premiered September 3, 1877 (Moody, p. 260), but Harrigan expanded it for the 1885 show, and this song was added. The song has since entered oral tradition, as known versions exhibit significant variations. - DGE, RBW The song has cross-fertilized with "Outward and Homeward Bound"; it may be that that was the inspiration for this song -- although Edward Harrigan's father was a sailor (born of Irish parents in Carbonear, Newfoundland; Moody, p. 7), and Harrigan himself had been a ship's caulker (Moody, pp. 15-19), so Harrigan had plenty of background on a sailor's life. Nonetheless the handful of versions in oral tradition, although typically shorted than the Harrigan/Braham original, clearly retain large parts of the original. It's a rather odd piece in the Harrigan/Braham repertoire; Ned Harrigan , despite his nautical background, rarely wrote about the sea in his plays. The song was from the play "Old Lavender," one that Harrigan worked on for many years (the first version his company performed was one of the few Harrigan shows that didn't do well, but he eventually got it right): "Harrigan toyed with Old Lavender most of his life. In 1885 he added more songs: "Poverty's Tears Ebb and Flow"; "Please to Put That Down"; a tribute to liquor, "When sorrow sits down on your brow, / and sadness peeps out of your eye, / don't stop to think but take a drink"; and one of the swingiest Braham-Harrigan tunes, "Get Up, Jack, John, Sit Down" (Moody, p. 81). Apparently the original version of the drama, "Old Lavender Water, or, Around the Docks" did not feature any music (Franceschina, p. 107), because it came out before Harrigan's association with composer David Braham was firm; the addition of the music no doubt helps to explain the success of the revived version. Old Lavender was a character Harrigan played himself (there is a photo of Harrigan in the role in the photo insert following p. 54 of Moody); according to Moody, pp. 78-79, "The seedy and lovable reprobate, Old Lavender, copied after an eccentric who had achieved celebrity on Corlear's Hook, was one of Harrigan's finest portraits. His counterpart might be found among the soggy inhabitants of any waterfront saloon, but few devout drunks could match Lavender's astonishing resistance to inebriation and to the deprivations of poverty. His elegant circumlocutions emerged in greater profusion with each dash of lubrication, and his natural dignity was unimpaired by his damaged top hat, his ragged frock coat, and his fingerless gloves. Harrigan had spotted the costume on an old man on lower Broadway." In the play, Lavender is disowned by his brother Philip for drunkenness. Philip's wife runs off with a fellow named Paul Cassin -- who proceeds to dump her, literally: he throws her in a river. She is saved by Rat, a friend of Lavender (Franceschina, p. 174), "Lavender's Sancho Panza," played by Tony Hart (Moody, p. 79). Lavender himself is afraid of water after a flood in a gold mine he discovered, hence his drinking (Moody, p. 80). But it all ends in reconciliations. Harrigan said of him, "I think Old Lavender fits more of my own individuality in stage characterization than any other part I ever played. I never could see his rags. He was the sort of fellow who could be welcomed anywhere, and was man enough to set off a little from the rest of the crowd. With his conversational powers he could hold his audience. He drank not for drink's self [sic.], but for sociability -- and I've seen many Lavenders" (Moody, p. 81). In the last two years of Harrigan's life, when he was ill and no longer able to perform, his family and old colleagues such as his leading lady Annie Yeamans would visit him and perform parts of his plays. What he requested most often was something from "Old Lavender" (Kahn, p. 300). This song is sung by Lavender himself; as presented, it "is a jaunty sea chantey with a busy hornpipe accompaniment and a vigorous 'manly' chorus" (Franceschina, p. 174). For background on Harrigan and Braham, see the notes to "The Babies on Our Block." - RBW Bibliography
File: Wa071 Go to the Ballad Search form Go to the Ballad Index Instructions The Ballad Index Copyright 2020 by Robert B. Waltz and David G. Engle. |
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Subject: DT Correction: Get Up, Jack! John, Sit Down! From: Joe Offer Date: 21 Nov 06 - 09:58 PM Here's a corrected transcription of the Warner version, from Traditional American Folk Songs from the Anne & Frank Warner Collection, #71. GET UP JACK! JOHN, SIT DOWN (The Jolly Roving Tar) Ships may come and ships may go As long as the sea does roll. Each sailor lad just like his dad, He loves the flowing bowl. A trip ashore he does adore With a girl that's plump and round. When your money's gone It's the same old song, "Get up Jack! John, sit down!" CHORUS Come along, come along, You jolly brave boys, There's lots of grog in the jar. We'll plough the briny ocean With the jolly roving tar. When Jack gets in, it's then he steers For some old boarding house. He's welcomed in with run and gin, They feed him on pork souse. He'll lend and spend and not offend Till he lies drunk on the ground When your money's gone It's the same old song, "Get up Jack! John, sit down!" CHORUS He then will sail aboard some ship For India or Japan, In Asia there, the ladies fair All love the sailor men. He'll go ashore and on a tear And buy some girl a gown. When your money's gone It's the same old song, "Get up Jack! John, sit down!" CHORUS When Jack gets old and weather-beat, Too old to roam about, In some rum shop, they'll let him stop Till eight bells calls him out. He'll raise his eyes up to the skies, Saying, "Boys, we're homeward bound." When your money's gone It's the same old song, "Get up Jack! John, sit down!" CHORUS collected by Frank Warner from Lena Bourne Fish, 1940 This version is titled "The Jolly Roving Tar" in Traditional American Folk Songs from the Anne & Frank Warner Collection, #71 Recorded by Frank Warner, Jeff Warner filename[ JACKJOHN TUNE FILE: JACKJOHN CLICK TO PLAY BR On The first CD from the Warner Collection, Her Bright Smile Haunts Me Still, Lena Bourne Fish sings only the first two verses. Here's the difference in the way she sings it on the CD:
It's the same old song, "Get up Jack! John, sit down!" CHORUS Come along, come along, You jolly brave boys, There's lots of grog in the jar. We'll plough the briny ocean With my jolly roving tar. |
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Subject: DT Correction: Get Up, Jack! John, Sit Down! From: Joe Offer Date: 21 Nov 06 - 10:21 PM Here are minor corrections to the Lomax version in the DT, from American Ballads and Folk Songs (1934) GET UP, JACK! JOHN, SIT DOWN! Oh, the ships will come and the ships will go, As long as waves do roll: The sailor lad, likewise his dad, He loves the flowing bowl: A lass ashore we do adore, One that is plump and round, round, round. When the money is gone, it's the same old song, Get up, Jack! John, sit down! Chorus: Singing, Hey! laddie, ho! laddie, Swing the capstan 'round,'round,'round When the money is gone it's the same old song, Get up, Jack! John, sit down! [I] go and take a trip in a man-o'-war To China or Japan, In Asia, there are ladies fair Who love the sailorman. When Jack and Joe palavers, O, And buy the girls a gown, gown, gown. When the money is gone it's the same old song, Get up, Jack! John, sit down! When Jack is ashore he beats his way Towards some boarding-house: He's welcome in with his rum and gin, And he's fed with pork and s[c]ouse: For he'll spend and spend and never offend But he'll lay drunk on the ground, ground, ground: When my money is gone it's the same old song: Get up, Jack! John, sit down! When Jack is old and weatherbeat, Too old to roustabout, In some rum-shop they'll let him stop, At eight bells he's turned out. Then he cries, he cries up to the skies: "I'll soon be homeward bound, bound, bound." When my money is gone it's the same old song: Get up, Jack! John, sit down! From American Ballads and Folk Songs, Lomax This song was sung and written down by John Thomas, a Welsh sailor on the Philadelphian, in 1896 @sailor @age @drink filename[ GETUPJCK RG There's no tune in the Lomax book. |
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Subject: ADD Version: Get Up, Jack! John, Sit Down! From: Joe Offer Date: 21 Nov 06 - 10:46 PM The version in The Folk Songs of North America (Alan Lomax, 1960) [song #33,with tune], appears to be a combination of the previous Lomax and Warner versions: Get Up, Jack Ships may come and ships may go, as long as the sea does roll, Each sailor lad, likewise his dad, he loves that flowing bowl. A lass ashore he does adore, one that is plump and round, But when his money is gone, it's the same old song. Get up, Jack! John, sit down!' CHORUS: Come along, come along, my jolly brave tars, There's lots of grog in the jar, We'll plough the briny ocean With those jolly roving tars. When Jack's ashore, he beats his way to some boarding-house, He's welcomed in with rum and girl, likewise with port and souse, He'll spend and spend and never offend, till he lies drunk on the ground, But when his money is gone, it's the same old song— Get up, Jack! John, sit down!' CHORUS Now when Jack is old and weather-beat, too old to knock about, In some grogshop they'll let him stop, till eight bells he's turned out. Then he cries and he sighs right up to the skies: 'Good Lord, I'm homeward bound,' For when your money is gone, it's the same old song— Get up, Jack! John, sit down!' CHORUS The tune appears to be very similar to the one in Warner. |
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Subject: ADD Version: Get Up, Jack! John, Sit Down! From: Joe Offer Date: 21 Nov 06 - 11:12 PM Here's one from the Levy Sheet Music Collection. Most likely, this is the original, since it was published in 1885. Get Up, Jack, John, Sit Down! Words by Edward Harrigan Music by Dave Braham (as sung in Edward Harrigan's local drama, Old Lavender) Oh, ships will come and ships will go as long as waves do roll; Each sailor lad, likewise his dad, will love the flowing bowl. Afloat, ashore, they do adore a lass that's plump and roun'; When the money's gone 'tis the same old song, Get up, Jack, John, sit down. CHORUS: Heigh, laddie, Ho, laddie. Swing the capstan 'roun'; When the money's gone, 'tis the same old song, Get up, Jack, John, sit down. An old sheath-kinfe and souwester are staunch old friends at night; A glass o' grog, in rain or fog, will steer a sailor right. From old Brazil to Bunker Hill we, scatter dollars roun'; When the money's gone 'tis the same old song, Get up, Jack, John, sit down. CHORUS Go take a cruise on men o' war to China or Japan; In Asia there the maidens fair, all love a sailor man; While Tom and Joe palaver oh, and buy the girls a gown; When the money's gone 'tis the same old song, Get up, Jack, John, sit down. CHORUS When Jack's ashore, oh, then he steers to some old boarding house, He's welcomed in with rum and gin, and fed on pork and souse; He'll spend and lend, and ne'er offend, and lay drunk on the groun'; When the money's gone 'tis the same old song, Get up, Jack, John, sit down CHORUS When Jack is old and weather beat, too weak to roust about, In some rumshop they let him stop, at eight bells he's turned out; He cries, he cries up to the skies, I'll soon be homeward bound; For my money's gone 'tis the same old song, Get up, Jack, John, sit down. CHORUS Click to play(tune from the 1885 sheet music)Here's the bibliographic information from Levy: Title: Songs in Harrigan's Local Drama, "Old Lavender." Get Up Jack, John, Sit Down. Composer, Lyricist, Arranger: Words by Edward Harrigan. Music by Dave Braham. Dave Braham Publication: New York: Wm. A. Pond & Co., 25 Union Square, (Broadway, bet. 15th and 16th Sts.), 1885. Form of Composition: strophic with chorus Instrumentation: piano and voice First Line: Oh, ships will come and ships will go as long as waves do roll First Line of Chorus: Heigh laddie, Ho, laddie, swing the capstan 'roun' Performer: As Sung in Edward Harrigan's Local Drama, "Old Lavender." Advertisement: ads on back cover for Wm. A. Pond & Co. stock Plate Number: 11577-3 Subject: Seamen Subject: Courtship & love Subject: Eating & drinking Subject: Money Call No.: Box: 072 Item: 028 There's a better-quality copy of the sheet music at the American Memory Collection of the Library of Congress. |
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Subject: ADD Version: Homeward Bound From: Joe Offer Date: 22 Nov 06 - 12:46 AM Note: the song in Shay, "Homeward Bound," was posted in this thread (click). The ballad index included the song in the "Get Up Jack" entry because Roud included it, even though Roud may be mistaken. For the sake of completeness, I'll post it here - note the last line of the song. TO PENSACOLA TOWN WE'LL BID ADIEU / HOMEWARD BOUND To Pensacola town we'll bid adieu, To lovely Kate and pretty Sue. Our anchor's weighed and our sails unfurled, We're bound for to plough this watery world. CHORUS: You know we're outward bound, Hurrah, we're outward bound! The wind blows hard from the east nor-east, Our ship sails ten knots at least, The skipper will our wants supply, And while we've grog we'll ne'er say die. And should we touch at Malabar, Or any other port so far, Our skipper will tip the chink, And just like fishes we will drink. And now our three years it is out, It's very near time we back'd about; And when we're home, and do get free, O, won't we have a jolly spree. And now we'll haul into the docks, Where all the pretty girls come in flocks, And one to the other they will say, "Here comes Jack with his three years' pay!" And now we'll haul to the "Dog and Bell," Where there's good liquor for to sell, In comes old Archer with a smile, Saying, "Drink, my lads, it's worth your while." But when our money's all gone and spent, And none to be borrowed nor none to be lent, In comes old Archer with a frown, Saying, "Get up, Jack, let John sit down." Source:American Sea Songs and Chanteys, by Frank Shay (Norton, 1948) |
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Subject: RE: DTStudy: Get Up, Jack! John, Sit Down! From: GUEST,DonMeixner Date: 22 Nov 06 - 01:29 AM I learned this song from John Roberts and Tony Barrand. They said they learned it from Frank Warner and they learned it wrong. I've done it wrong now for about thirty years and I won't be changing it anytime soon. The version the Fables do is so similar to mine as to be nearly identical. There is also a version in the Lomax Book of Folk Somgs of Morth America as pointed out by Joe.. Don |
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Subject: RE: DTStudy: Get Up, Jack! John, Sit Down! From: georgeward Date: 22 Nov 06 - 02:09 AM Moments like this make up for all of Mudcat's quirks (meaning us, not Max's technical nightmares....tho' moments like this make up for those, too, I hope). Like Don, I'll probably continue with the Warners' version, at least some of the time (though Harrigan and Braham are worth a consider in their own right). Anyone interested in those fellows of immense influence Harrigan and Braham, BTW, ought to check out Mick Moloney's brilliant album 'McNally's Row of Flats', as should anyone with any curiosity at all about Irish-American music. Here's a link: http://compassrecords.com/artists/mick-moloney Best thing himself has ever done, IMHO, and that's saying sumpn. Thanks for a great thread on an old-friend song, Joe. -G |
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Subject: RE: DTStudy: Get Up, Jack! John, Sit Down! From: Joe Offer Date: 22 Nov 06 - 02:35 AM Beer posted the Fables version in another thread; Thread #96582 Message #1890362 Posted By: Beer 21-Nov-06 - 08:21 PM Thread Name: Lyr Req/Origins: My Jolly Roving Tar Subject: RE: Lyr Req: My Jolly Roving Tar Neither one Thurg. However the closest version is the one posted by Peace. |
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Subject: RE: DTStudy: Get Up, Jack! John, Sit Down! From: GUEST,Brian Peters Date: 22 Nov 06 - 06:15 AM What is the tune linked above as a midi? The Harrigan and Braham original? Nothing like the Lena Bourne Fish tune in the Warner book, which is very like the tune to the 'other' "My Jolly Roving Tar" collected in England in 1906 (see my post to the other thread) |
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Subject: RE: DTStudy: Get Up, Jack! John, Sit Down! From: MoorleyMan Date: 22 Nov 06 - 06:52 AM You're SO right, georgeward, >>Moments like this make up for all of Mudcat's quirks<<. This is one of the big strengths of the Cat. More power to y'all! I'll be posting to this thread myself later, when I've had time to digest the above posts. |
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Subject: RE: DTStudy: Get Up, Jack! John, Sit Down! From: Charley Noble Date: 22 Nov 06 - 08:30 AM Nice work, Joe! Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: DTStudy: Get Up, Jack! John, Sit Down! From: Joe Offer Date: 22 Nov 06 - 02:03 PM Yeah, isn't that a kick, Brian? I edited the MIDI link to make it more clear that I was linking to my transcription of the 1885 tune. I think we could spent a lot of time exploring Harrigan songs, and I'm sure we'd find some other familiar ones among them. -Joe- Search for other Edward Harrigan threads |
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Subject: RE: DTStudy: Get Up, Jack! John, Sit Down! From: dick greenhaus Date: 23 Nov 06 - 12:07 PM A variation of Ms. Fish's version was collected by Lomax. And I found a retired sailor (who had sailed on the Prussein, on the Flying P line) who sang a similar version, with the chorus: Well it's Hi! laddie, Ho! laddie Swing the capstain 'round. When your money's all gone it's the same old song Get up Jack, John sit down. Makes one to wonder which version came first. |
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Subject: RE: DTStudy: Get Up, Jack! John, Sit Down! From: Big Al Whittle Date: 23 Nov 06 - 04:56 PM that's a line in the shanty Homeward Bound - n'est-ce pas? |
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Subject: RE: DTStudy: Get Up, Jack! John, Sit Down! From: GUEST,thurg Date: 23 Nov 06 - 09:21 PM If I understand your question, there is a line in Homeward Bound: Get up, Jack, Let John sit down. You'll find it five or six posts up the thread. |
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Subject: RE: DTStudy: Get Up, Jack! John, Sit Down! From: Anglo Date: 24 Nov 06 - 02:01 AM Dick, your chorus is almost exactly the same as the original Harrigan song, posted near the top of this thread. Listen to Mick Moloney's recording for Braham's tune. Brian, I don't think the Braham (original) and the Fish tunes are that different really; I feel oral tradition could easily transmutate one from the other. Of course the chorus is a little different. The Irish Rovers also recorded a song called "Jolly Roving Tar," authored (like most of their songs) by George Millar. This seems to be a different song, though a few phrases are borrowed. A number of years ago it seems I heard a local "Irish Bluegrass" band, Hair Of The Dog, do a version of Jolly Roving Tar, and since they cover a lot of Irish Rovers material I thought it might be this one, but my memory (which may well be at fault) is that it had more similarity to the Fish/Harrigan version. I should track them down and find out. |
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Subject: RE: DTStudy: Get Up, Jack! John, Sit Down! From: GUEST,Brian Peters Date: 24 Nov 06 - 12:12 PM Well, Anglo, I listened again and to my ears it still doesn't sound a lot like the Fish song. Certainly the difference between the two is far greater than that between Fish song and the "My Jolly Roving Tar" (not the Harrigan song) collected in England 100 years ago, which are near identical apart from the repeat patterns (AABA in the Fish song, ABBA in the English trad one). Far more likely that the Fish melody developed from the English model, than by what would have to be fairly major transmutation of the Harrington. But maybe Mrs Fish (or someone else further up the line) had a copy of the (Harrigan) words with a chorus ending in the line "with my Jolly Roving Tar", and put them together with a different melody coincidentally bearing that title. The plot thickens........ |
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Subject: RE: DTStudy: Get Up, Jack! John, Sit Down! From: John MacKenzie Date: 24 Nov 06 - 12:51 PM DT Mirror version G. |
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Subject: RE: DTStudy: Get Up, Jack! John, Sit Down! From: Big Al Whittle Date: 24 Nov 06 - 01:03 PM yes Giok, that's the one I was thinking of, which was very popular in English clubs at one time. I've never sung it myself. although as I remember once they've been supplanted by the newcomer and their money has run out - they become outward bound in the last verse. its very similar to the Pensacola version, but done in an English accent! sorry no questions - nothing sensible to add. |
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Subject: RE: DTStudy: Get Up, Jack! John, Sit Down! From: John MacKenzie Date: 24 Nov 06 - 01:16 PM Ian Campbell and the Ian Campbell Folk Group used to sing this version, I still have it on an old LP somewhere. Giok |
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Subject: RE: DTStudy: Get Up, Jack! John, Sit Down! From: Noreen Date: 24 Nov 06 - 01:36 PM When I first heard this sung (as a young girl in Liverpool), the singer explained that Jack was a merchant seaman and John was from the Royal Navy- the bar staff ejecting the riff-raff when his money ran out, in favour of those with more money, or higher class. |
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Subject: RE: DTStudy: Get Up, Jack! John, Sit Down! From: Big Al Whittle Date: 24 Nov 06 - 01:38 PM John, not Andrew...? |
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Subject: RE: DTStudy: Get Up, Jack! John, Sit Down! From: Joe Offer Date: 24 Nov 06 - 02:29 PM Threads like this tend to cose me money. I have to have the Mick Moloney CD. Are there any other collections of Harrigan & Hart songs that I need to buy? -Joe- |
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Subject: RE: DTStudy: Get Up, Jack! John, Sit Down! From: GUEST,Brian Peters Date: 24 Nov 06 - 02:31 PM I heard somewhere that it was what a prostitute would say when one client's money had run out and she was urging him to make way for the next. |
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Subject: RE: DTStudy: Get Up, Jack! John, Sit Down! From: Anglo Date: 24 Nov 06 - 04:37 PM Hey, hey, Homeward Bound is a completely different song to the one we're discussing here. Just because it contains the phrase doesn't make it a cousin. You might as well lump together everything that starts "As I roved out" or "One morning in the month of May." Brian, I had missed your reference to the Wanton Seed version in one of the other threads. That tune is indeed quite similar to that of Mrs Fish, though (significantly I think) it is ABBA rather that AABA, and has no chorus at all. Textually, again, it is a completely different song. |
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Subject: RE: DTStudy: Get Up, Jack! John, Sit Down! From: Big Al Whittle Date: 24 Nov 06 - 05:32 PM Can't see that. The bloke who wrote that must have been influenced by the other one. That's not synchronicity - it's nicking a good line. |
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Subject: RE: DTStudy: Get Up, Jack! John, Sit Down! From: EBarnacle Date: 11 Aug 20 - 06:38 PM The version in the DT [subtitled wn] is almost identical to the version I got from Jeff Warner, who got it from his dad, Frank Warner. I am sure all of the directly related versions are descended from the Harrigan version. The song has legs and just gets folk processed. But that happened to a lost of music hall pieces. |
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Subject: RE: DTStudy: Get Up, Jack! John, Sit Down! From: Steve Gardham Date: 12 Aug 20 - 02:17 AM I don't know whether you have the origins of 'Outward Bound' anywhere, but just for the sake of completeness it was a theatre song written by William Upton some time before 1794. Guessing here but the expression 'Get up Jack, let John sit down' was probably an old expression even before Upton's time. |
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Subject: RE: DTStudy: Get Up, Jack! John, Sit Down! From: John MacKenzie Date: 12 Aug 20 - 06:39 AM There is a last verse which I sing to the Outward/Homeward Bound song. So then poor Jack must understand There's ships in port all wanting hands He goes on board as he did before And he bids farewell to his native For you know he;' outward me boys Hurrah he's outward bound |
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Subject: RE: DTStudy: Get Up, Jack! John, Sit Down! From: GUEST,Malcolm Storey Date: 12 Aug 20 - 08:13 PM I also used to sing Outward & Homewrad Bound and indeed the line "Get up Jack let John sit down" was part of the penultimate verse (surprised you don't remember it Steve). It features on the later recording produced by the Folk Union One club that met at the Bluebell in Hull for many years. As is often the case with these ditties the lyrics were updated to include the modern characters (Charley & Freda - mine hosts at the Bluebell) but still a cracking song and frighteningly accurate. |
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Subject: RE: DTStudy: Get Up, Jack! John, Sit Down! From: Gurney Date: 12 Aug 20 - 11:46 PM Here's a variant from the singing os Cyril Tawney, set in England. To Catherines Dock I bid farewell To charming Sue and lovely Nell Our anchor's heaved, our sails unfurled We're bound across the watery world. For the seas we are outward bound, for the seas we are outward bound. The wind blew hard, the wind blew East Our good ship sailed nine knots at least! And at the Spaniards we let fly While we have grog we'll never say die! For the seas we are outward bound, for the seas we are outward bound. When we returned to London Docks The fair pretty maids came down in flocks. The maids did skip, the maids did say Oh here comes Jack with three years pay! For we are homeward bound, yes we are homeward bound And when we come to The Dog and Bell Where all good liquor is to sell In comes Arch, with his sweetest smile Saying "Drink, merry lads, it's worth your while! For you are homeward bound, yes you are homeward bound." But when your money is gone and spent When none is borrowed, for none is lent In comes Arch, with his sourest frown Saying "Stand up Jack, let John sit down. For Jack is outward bound, and John is homeward bound." But when each lad has touched his chink Why then like fishes, we'll sit and drink And the fair pretty maids with kisses sweet Will John desert, and Jack will greet For John is outward bound, and Jack is homeward bound. The happy acceptance of the parasites who prey on drunken sailors doesn't strike much of a chord with me. Sorry, no idea where he got it from. |
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Subject: RE: DTStudy: Get Up, Jack! John, Sit Down! From: GUEST Date: 14 Aug 20 - 03:28 PM How could I forget, Malcolm? And when we get to the Olde Blue Bell, Where good liquor they do sell In comes Charlie with a frown Saying 'Get up Jack let John sit down.' |
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Subject: RE: DTStudy: Get Up, Jack! John, Sit Down! From: GUEST,henryp Date: 15 Aug 20 - 12:24 PM This - and more - from Mainly Norfolk. Cyril Tawney sang Outward Bound in 1963 on his Argo album A Mayflower Garland. He noted: This ditty from the days of sail says much the same as the modern American song Nobody Needs You When You're Down and Out. At the end of a voyage a sailor was a comparatively wealthy man in a seaport and friends were easy to come by, friends who steadily evaporated as the ‘chink’ disappeared. Soon it was time to “go to sea for more”, a situation so common that in time the phrase ‘outward bound’ actually came to mean ‘broke’ among sailors. Our version here was collected by the Rev. S. Baring-Gould from Will Huggins of Lydford, Devon [VWML SBG/1/2/305]. Baring-Gould was born in Exeter in 1834, and his family owned the Lewtrenchard Estate near Lydford in west Devon. "As I have mentioned the folk-music of Devon, I may here add that one of my assistants was old Will Huggins, of Lydford, a mason, who entered enthusiastically into the work. I had an attack of influenza in the winter of 1889-90, and had to leave England for Italy. Before my departure Will promised me to go about among his old cronies and collect ancient ballads. Alas! he caught a chill; it fell on his chest, and when I returned in the spring, it was to learn that he was gone." I'm going, I reckon, full mellow, To lay in the churchyard my head; So say, God be wi' you, old fellow, The last of the singers is dead. |
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