The Battle of New Orleans

Subject: RE: The Battle of New Orleans
From: Rasener
Date: 07 Feb 08 - 04:52 PM

A belt or braces

Subject: RE: The Battle of New Orleans
From: Banjo-Flower
Date: 07 Feb 08 - 05:26 PM

UK braces = US suspenders

UK suspenders =(don't go there Les)

Gerry

Subject: RE: The Battle of New Orleans
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Feb 08 - 05:37 PM

Ass kicking? Disgusting practice. Fortunately there are people like this.

Subject: RE: The Battle of New Orleans
From: Rasener
Date: 08 Feb 08 - 02:16 AM

Gerry LOL
You mean like this

UK Braces or US Suspenders

UK Suspenders
or
UK Suspenders

Subject: RE: The Battle of New Orleans
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 08 Feb 08 - 03:48 AM

My entire knowledge of the event was a memory of reading a post here that I can not now find.
So did the British run?

Subject: RE: The Battle of New Orleans
From: Rasener
Date: 08 Feb 08 - 03:58 AM

Of course we didn't run. Stiff upper lip and all that.
Just American propaganda!

Subject: RE: The Battle of New Orleans
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 08 Feb 08 - 04:05 AM

Most of the UK LD fans have known since 1957 that Pakenham was on the British side but we didn't agonise over the error (get a life, folks!): perhaps Lonnie misheard the Jimmy Driftwood version which I think (but I have been known to be wrong!) was earlier. I always sing Jackson ( but then no-one ever listens to me!

RtS
(the voice that sank a thousand ships)

Subject: RE: The Battle of New Orleans
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 08 Feb 08 - 04:52 AM

LD did a spoken intro.
He said that "The British came off rather ignominiously."
He also said something like, "They ain't never done any good anyway"
It was the first record I ever bought.

Subject: RE: The Battle of New Orleans
From: PoppaGator
Date: 08 Feb 08 - 12:08 PM

"perhaps Lonnie misheard the Jimmy Driftwood version which I think (but I have been known to be wrong!) was earlier."

Jimmie Driftwood wrote the song, so his version would be the earliest ;^)

If Jimmie recorded it, he did not make much of a hit. The song is best-known in the States as recorded by someone else: Johnny Horton, if I recall correctly.

Subject: RE: The Battle of New Orleans
From: Mr Happy
Date: 11 Feb 08 - 06:07 AM

Thanks to all contributors to this thread, especially for the info on Jimmy Driftwood; the composer of BoNO.


I쳌fd never heard of him, but have checked him out & find what an important asset to folk he was.

Here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_Driftwood

& on You Tube: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=NUGpwPQ1PSs

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=75sCISLjmXQ

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=fcYDMHkFtt4

Unfortunately, there쳌fs no footage on YT of him doing BoNO, however there쳌fs one쳌fve Johnny Horton쳌fs big hit with it here: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=zyXrxfjEOhs


The British can be clearly seen in the background running about all over the place!!

Subject: RE: The Battle of New Orleans
From: Rasener
Date: 11 Feb 08 - 09:40 AM

Boo, American propoganda :-)

Subject: RE: The Battle of New Orleans
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 14 Feb 08 - 09:45 AM

tHERE ARE 150+ RECORDINGS LISTED ON THE (dAMN CAPSLOCK!) Allmusic Guide (that's better!) . Both Lonnie & Johnny Horton had hits in 1959 but the earliest recording by Driftwood I've found (Voice of the People- I have the CD reissue) is 1963 but I suppose he could have had a single earlier, Lonnie & Johnnie must have heard it somewhere.

RtS

Subject: RE: The Battle of New Orleans
From: PoppaGator
Date: 14 Feb 08 - 09:55 AM

I don't know a whole lot about Jimmie Driftwood ~ it might well be that he was a "nobody," in no position to make a record, when he wrote the song (i.e., in 1959 or earlier). He might not have become a recording artist until a few years later.

Perhaps the transatlantic success of the song he wrote (hit recordings by two different singers in two countries) is what won him enough recognition to cut his own record.

Subject: RE: The Battle of New Orleans
From: Mr Happy
Date: 14 Feb 08 - 09:59 AM

We sang it in our sesh last night - went down well!

Subject: RE: The Battle of New Orleans
From: GUEST,Black Hawk
Date: 14 Feb 08 - 10:26 AM

Written in 1936

RCA Victor recorded 1957 & released June 1958
Not given much air time due to two words - 'bloody' & 'hell'.

Johnny Horton heard it played on radio & asked for permission to record it.
Lonnie heard it & recorded without permission. Post-requested permission when it was realised how big a hit it had become.

Info from 'The Jimmy Driftwood Story' available from 'The Jimmy Driftwood Legacy Project'.

A remarkable story of a remarkable man!

Subject: RE: The Battle of New Orleans
From: Little Hawk
Date: 14 Feb 08 - 12:48 PM

Interesting battle. It shows how badly wrong things can go when an army stubbornly and unimaginatively attempts to attack a well-prepared defence line over open ground and wholly unsuitable terrain. On that occasion it was the British who screwed up in that fashion.

They should have known better, because back in the Hundred Years War they did the same kind of thing (but in reverse) to the French several times at battles like Agincourt, Crecy, and Poitiers, where outnumbered English armies used archers in well-prepared defensive lines to slaughter almost unbelievable numbers of attacking Frenchmen. The English might lose a hundred or so men in such a battle, while the French would lose ten thousand! Even worse for the attackers than at New Orleans.

Courage cannot overcome a complete failure in tactics.

Subject: RE: The Battle of New Orleans
From: PoppaGator
Date: 14 Feb 08 - 01:18 PM

Black Hawk:

Written in 1936
Or did you mean '56? Maybe that's a typo.
Mr. Driftwood was probably alive in '36, but if so, quite young. A twenty-plus-year gap between composition and recording seems a bit much...

RCA Victor recorded 1957 & released June 1958
...by Jimmie, I assume? I guess you're telling us that Jimmie Driftwood did record and release his song as a single that was not widely heard ~ except, of course, by the two artists who made hits of the song in '59.

I'll have to look up that biography!

I don't believe the word "bloody" would have disqualified a song for US radio airplay, even in the most puritanical years of the 1950s, but "hell" may have done the trick. In the UK, on the other hand, "bloody" was probably even more offensive than "hell."

Subject: RE: The Battle of New Orleans
From: GUEST,Black Hawk
Date: 15 Feb 08 - 04:54 AM

Hi poppagator

Mr. Driftwood was probably alive in '36, but if so, quite young. A twenty-plus-year gap between composition and recording seems a bit much...
Yes, he was alive. Born in 1907 he wrote the song (1936 according to him) as an aid to teaching history (he spent thirty years as a teacher in the Ozarks) not as a performing songwriter.

by Jimmie, I assume? I guess you're telling us that Jimmie Driftwood did record and release his song as a single that was not widely heard ~ except, of course, by the two artists who made hits of the song in '59. Correct! It did get air time but was very restricted because of two 'offensive' words.

Sorry, my bad memory. Banned words were 'hell' & 'Damn' in U.S.
'Bloody' was changed to 'bloomin' in Lonnies british version for similar reasons (airplay)

I recommend the biography & also his recordings. Plays a mouth-bow like nobody & his home-made guitar sounds different to a Martin, Gibson etc. but non the worse for it.

Cheers

Subject: RE: The Battle of New Orleans
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 15 Feb 08 - 05:03 AM

I think that the attack began under cover of fog.
Bad luck for the Brits, the fog lifted.
Did they run?

Subject: RE: The Battle of New Orleans
From: GUEST,Black Hawk
Date: 15 Feb 08 - 05:13 AM

Jimmys recording contained more verses than Lonnies.Its a long time since I played Hortons so he may have recorded the full version.

Jimmy is correct spelling - record companies altered it as Sun records did with John Cash.

Subject: RE: The Battle of New Orleans
From: Mr Happy
Date: 15 Feb 08 - 05:16 AM

See my links above for Horton's rendition

Subject: RE: The Battle of New Orleans
From: GUEST,Black Hawk
Date: 15 Feb 08 - 05:23 AM

Mr Happy

I have the Horton recording , just havent listened to that particular song for a while.

I am still on dial-up at home so you-tube etc. is a no-go for me.
Works PC (this one) doesnt allow streaming access!

But thanks anyway :-)

Subject: RE: The Battle of New Orleans
From: Arkie
Date: 15 Feb 08 - 11:05 AM

There are several stories about where Johnny Horton got "The Battle Of New Orlean". He may well have heard Jimmy's recording but he and Jimmy also performed on the Louisiana Hayride, and he could have heard the song there. The song was published by Don Warden, a member of Porter Wagoner's band. Warden and Wagoner were from southeastern Missouri and not all that far from Stone County, Arkansas. A mutual friend of Jimmy's and Warden, Hugh Ashley, son of Hobart Ashley of Ashley's Melody Men and once a member of Zeke Manner's Beverly Hillbillies (paving the way for Elton Britt, a friend and neighbor) encouraged Warden to listen to Jimmy's songs. Ashley had transcribed some of Jimmy's songs for a Kansas City recording company and knew the potential if they could get in the right hands.

Jimmy's real strength was in live performances. He had some good songs and some good stories. He was in his fiftys when Horton recorded Battle of New Orleans and made the most of the opportunity. Sales of Jimmy's recordings increased after Horton's hit and both performers got a career boost from "Battle". In 1959, after the success of "Battle" other artists became interested in Jimmy's songs and five songs charted in that year.

My personal favorite of Jimmy's songs is "Long Chain On" which was recorded by Peter Paul and Mary and has also been more recently recorded by Robert Earl Keen. Peter Yarrow and his daughter Bethany perfomed a magnificent version at the Ozark Folk Center in Mountain View, Arkansas a few years ago.

Subject: RE: The Battle of New Orleans - song origins
From: Genie
Date: 25 Jun 10 - 03:08 PM

So is Jimmie Driftwood recognized as the songwriter, or is it someone else (e.g., Don Warden).
Who holds the copyright on the lyrics? Was the tune composed in 1956 or is it borrowed or adapted from an older folk tune?

It sounds like there is still some dispute.

Here's what Wikipedia says about the song's origins. (Of course, that could change in a few minutes.)

"The melody has its roots in a well-known American fiddle tune "The 8th of January", which was the date of the Battle of New Orleans. Jimmie Driftwood, a school principal in Arkansas with a passion for history, set a historical account of the battle to this music in an attempt to get students interested in learning history. It worked, and Driftwood became well known in the region for his historical songs. He was "discovered" in the late 1950s by Don Warden, and eventually signed to a recording contract by RCA, for whom he recorded 12 songs in 1958, including "The Battle of New Orleans"."

Subject: RE: The Battle of New Orleans
From: Les from Hull
Date: 25 Jun 10 - 03:23 PM

'historical account of the battle to this music in an attempt to get students interested in learning history' - phew, if that's how Americans learn history, no wonder they keep getting it wrong. They'd be better off reading a history book, written by a historian!

Subject: RE: The Battle of New Orleans
From: voyager
Date: 25 Jun 10 - 06:49 PM

Johnny Horton's BoNO recording was about my 1st exposure to the Folk Tradition. In 1984 (abouts) I penned my own version of -

The Battle of New Oil-Lease (CHORUS)

Iran thru the presses and
Iran thru the papers
Iran thru the White House where the oil money flows
Iran so bad, our Army couldn't catch them
They took our radar bases
In the Gulf of Texaco

In light of the Deep Horizon disaster, it might be time to update the lyrics to this parody tune.

Cheers
voyager

Subject: RE: The Battle of New Orleans
From: Acorn4
Date: 25 Jun 10 - 06:59 PM

A totally pointless battle as the peace treaty had already been signed unbeknown to the combatants.

Subject: RE: The Battle of New Orleans
From: Genie
Date: 25 Jun 10 - 10:03 PM

Les, the report said Driftwood wanted to use the song to get kids INTERESTED in history. That didn't mean he used it as a textbook. : D

Subject: RE: The Battle of New Orleans
From: Genie
Date: 25 Jun 10 - 10:04 PM

@Acorn4
Yeah, they didn't have them there internets back then.

Subject: RE: The Battle of New Orleans
From: Arkie
Date: 25 Jun 10 - 10:09 PM

If Andrew Jackson and Lord Packenham had spent more time watching television or read a newspaper now and then, they would have known that the war was over and gone home instead of fighting over possession of New Orleans. But that would wrecked the careers of both Jimmy Driftwood and Johnny Horton.

I know of no serious dispute about who wrote the words to the Battle of New Orleans. The royalties paid for Jimmy's farm and provided a level of retirement he could not have earned from teaching. The tune was the old fiddle tune "8th of January" also known in some circles as "Old Jake Gilly". The tune was well known in Stone County where Jimmy was raised.

Jimmy used to tell how he had written the song to help him teach a history lesson, and that may have been the truth but Jimmy was an entertainer and a gifted storyteller as well as a singer and song writer.

As for the copyright, I do not know a lot about how that works, but Warden may have held the copyright as the publisher. Driftwood was the writer.

Subject: RE: The Battle of New Orleans
From: Ron Davies
Date: 25 Jun 10 - 10:57 PM

And don't forget Jackson himself. He got quite a career boost.   

Pakenham, not so much.

Subject: RE: The Battle of New Orleans
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 04 Jan 11 - 07:47 PM

You can earn money on Amazon's Mechanical Turk by trying to find evidence in old books that confirm or refute a claim about the battle of New Orleans. Go to Amazon Mechanical Turk and search for New Orleans battle.

Subject: RE: The Battle of New Orleans
From: fat B****rd
Date: 05 Jan 11 - 03:24 PM

In the film I saw Yul Brynner won the battle.

Subject: RE: The Battle of New Orleans
From: kendall
Date: 08 Jan 12 - 09:40 AM

This morning I caught my English wife singing Jimmy Driftwood's Battle of New Orleans. For shame! Of course, I sorta started it.

Subject: RE: The Battle of New Orleans
From: Arkie
Date: 08 Jan 12 - 11:12 AM

198 years have now passed. That should ease hard feelings a little. That is, unless you are hill folks. It takes a little longer up here.

Subject: RE: The Battle of New Orleans
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 08 Jan 12 - 12:07 PM

Kendall, that's a very positive sign. First step in the Americanization of Jacqui. Next step- baseball fan!

Subject: RE: The Battle of New Orleans
From: Bert
Date: 08 Jan 12 - 11:37 PM

It is a great song but not historically correct.

What actually happened was, that the British attacked three or more times, and when they finally gave up it was only 22 soldiers who actually RAN.

Not quite the rout that the song suggests.

Also, as an aside, Packenham was Wellington's Brother in Law and they didn't send Wellington, because Wellington was pro-American.

Wellington would never have camped where Packenham did and was far too experienced a soldier to have attacked under those circumstances.

I like to think that Wellington was visionary enough to see what a great ally America would be in the future.

Subject: RE: The Battle of New Orleans
From: Splott Man
Date: 09 Jan 12 - 03:42 AM

And it was the 8th of January yesterday.

Subject: RE: The Battle of New Orleans
From: kendall
Date: 09 Jan 12 - 08:36 AM

I don't think Jimmy Driftwood was an historian.

If our history is correct, something over 400 were killed, over 500 captured and over 1300 wounded.Maybe not a rout but the battle was decisive.

Subject: RE: The Battle of New Orleans
From: jacqui.c
Date: 09 Jan 12 - 09:29 AM

First step in the Americanization of Jacqui

Not really LEJ - I first learned that song as a pre-teenager from the version that was popular at the time in the UK by Lonnie Donegan. Didn't even give the historical context a thought.

Baseball??? ICK!

Subject: RE: The Battle of New Orleans
From: GUEST,kendall
Date: 09 Jan 12 - 10:35 AM

She doesn't enjoy watching grown men play a kids game while spitting tobacco juice and scratching their naughty bits.

Subject: RE: The Battle of New Orleans
From: Arkie
Date: 09 Jan 12 - 10:55 AM

Technically, Jimmy was not a historian, but he did read a lot and gathered a lot of historical information which he used as the basis for his songs. He was also an entertainer and would sometimes stretch the truth a bit to make things more interesting. I believe that Jimmy's real gift was as a storyteller. Sometimes the story was told with music sometimes not. His intent was not to provide historical information but to entertain and make the stories interesting.

Subject: RE: The Battle of New Orleans
From: voyager
Date: 09 Jan 12 - 11:50 AM

If you're a fan of 'synchronicity' (events that are coincident in time) then you'll appreciate the link -

8th of January - The King is Gone (but not Forgotten)

voyager

Subject: RE: Irish Pirate Ballads - Smithsonian/ Milner, et al.
From: GUEST,Greger Sandbäck
Date: 10 Feb 12 - 05:29 AM

Does anybody know the title of a song ;some of the lyrics goes; "we fired our arms(guns),.....the British started coming(firing) but they weren´t as many as they were a while ago...")

Subject: RE: Irish Pirate Ballads - Smithsonian/ Milner, et al.
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Feb 12 - 05:43 AM

Alright, it's called The Battle of New Orleans

http://www.mudcat.org/@displaysong.cfm?SongID=535

Subject: RE: The Battle of New Orleans
From: GUEST,Teribus
Date: 11 Feb 12 - 12:03 AM

"Maybe not a rout but the battle was decisive. - kendall

Not really, by definition a "decisive" battle is one that decides an issue. Peace had already been agreed before the battle took place but neither side was aware of it.

The British Forces did not leave after the battle, New Orleans was only one of a number of targets, they decided to leave New Orleans even although they received reinforcements and a seige train to take the city after the battle. One month after the battle of New Orleans they took Biloxi in Mississippi then captured Fort Boyer in Mobile Baywere actively engaged in operations against Mobile itself, when word reached them that peace had been agreed. Immediately on hearing that the British withdrew in accordance with what had been agreed.

"Also, as an aside, Packenham was Wellington's Brother in Law and they didn't send Wellington, because Wellington was pro-American." - Bert

They didn't send Wellington because Wellington was far, far busier elsewhere acting a British plenipotentiary at the Congress of Vienna, I do not quite know why the song starts with "In 1814 we took a little trip" when the battle was actually fought in 1815.

Subject: Lyr Add: THE BATTLE OF NEW ORLEANS (Commonwealth v
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 24 Nov 17 - 01:18 PM

According to Wikipedia, Horton recorded this version for release in the Commonwealth countries. Most of the pronouns and only a few other words are changed, compared to the version released in the US. I have boldfaced the differences below. I found this on Spotify, where it is called "The Battle of New Orleans - special version cut for England." It is from an album called "The Spectacular Johnny Horton," which also has the American version.

THE BATTLE OF NEW ORLEANS (Commonwealth version)
Written by Jimmy Driftwood
As recorded by Johnny Horton.

1. In 1814 we took a little trip
Along with Colonel Packenham up the Mississip'.
We took a little bacon and we took a little beans,
And we met the bloomin' rebels in a town in New Orleans.

CHORUS: We fired our guns and the rebels kept a-comin'.
There wasn't nigh as many as there was a while ago.
We fired once more and they begin to runnin'
On down the Mississippi to the Gulf of Mexico.

2. We looked up the river and we see'd the rebels come,
While we had at least a hunnerd of us beatin' on the drum.
We stepped so high and we made our bugles ring.
They stood beside their cotton bales and didn't say a thing. CHORUS

3. Old Hick'ry said they could take us by surprise
If they didn't fire their muskets 'til they looked us in the eye.
They held their fire 'til they see'd our faces well,
Then they opened up their squirrel guns and really gave us ... well ... CHORUS

BRIDGE: Yeah, they ran through the briars and they ran through the brambles
And they ran through the bushes where a rabbit couldn't go.
Ran so fast that the hounds couldn't catch 'em,
On down the Mississippi to the Gulf of Mexico.

4. They fired their cannon 'til the barrel melted down,
So they grabbed an alligator and they fought another round.
They filled his head with cannon balls and powdered his behind,
And when they touched the powder off the 'gator lost his mind. CHORUS

REPEAT BRIDGE

Subject: RE: The Battle of New Orleans
From: Lighter
Date: 24 Nov 17 - 03:42 PM

So in the British version, the Brits win?

Pretty weird.

Subject: RE: The Battle of New Orleans
From: leeneia
Date: 26 Nov 17 - 12:01 AM

It was a terrible battle with great slaughter. Both sides should have been ashamed.

This song ought to be buried six feet deep.

Subject: RE: The Battle of New Orleans
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Nov 17 - 02:10 AM

First folk song I ever learned from a Lonnie Donegan single.

As to there being great slaughter. The American force suffered just over 1% fatalities, the British just over 2% in a battle involving just under 20,000 men. As someone else has mentioned the real tragedy regarding the battle in question was that, like the Battle of Toulouse, it was fought after an armistice was in place.