BS: Breaking Up is Hard to Do_Redux

Subject: Breaking up is hard to do
From: GUEST,anon
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 12:57 PM

Ok I'm in the middle of one and its awful, painful stuff. Just looking for reasurrance from fellow catters that it gets better eventually

Subject: RE: Breaking up is hard to do
From: Gern
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 01:04 PM

"The sun also rises..." All truisms become cliches because they're universally true, such as "time heals all wounds." It's also true that knowing this doesn't stop the bleeding. A 40-ouncer and some rough-edged, hurtin' blues might just help you out some.

Subject: RE: Breaking up is hard to do
From: Bernard
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 01:11 PM

The pain never stops, it only becomes numbed over time. If you're lucky enough to find someone else (in 20 years I haven't), maybe it numbs more quickly...

There's always some 'helpful' soul out there with platitudes... 'plenty more fish in the sea' (fish?!), 'love comes when you least expect it' (like finding something in the last place you look!!) and all that stuff. It makes them feel better because they think they're helping, but often it makes you feel worse, inadequate, etc.

Cynical? Moi?!!!

Chocolate...!

;o)

Subject: RE: Breaking up is hard to do
From: GUEST,Anon
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 01:16 PM

Its not the first one but its my first as a grown up, so to speak. I think thats why its so painful but.......I'm not the first and won't be the last, I know. Sorry folks this should be non music, bear with me, not thinking too straight at the moment

Subject: RE: Breaking up is hard to do
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 01:21 PM

Hang in, it does get better as time passes. The inirial shock is hell, as you know, but you will be ok, if not better for it...eventually. My heart goes out to you.

Subject: RE: Breaking up is hard to do
From: Zany Mouse
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 01:26 PM

Anon: I'm really sorry to hear of your pain but it WILL get better. Believe it or not, the worst is over, now that the breakup has happened it will gradually, and I mean GRADUALLY, get better.

The catters will support you.

Good luck

Rhiannon

Subject: RE: Breaking up is hard to do
From: GUEST,anon
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 01:27 PM

yep shock, hurt, bitterness, betrayal of trust.....

Subject: RE: Breaking up is hard to do
From: jeffp
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 01:29 PM

Keep reminding yourself that you are constantly moving AWAY from the source of your pain. It will ease with time.

Subject: RE: Breaking up is hard to do
From: Maryrrf
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 01:29 PM

Consider this - even if you are alone at the moment, better to be alone and independent than to be with the wrong person, especially if, as you say, this person betrayed your trust. I'm sure most of us have been where you are, and it's not a pleasant place. But yes, it does get better with time!

Subject: RE: Breaking up is hard to do
From: Amos
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 01:57 PM

Find your way back into life; it actually does heal, usually. Until then, keep breathing deep breaths. You will be okay.

A

Subject: RE: Breaking up is hard to do
From: Bernard
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 02:27 PM

The naggings doubts, blaming yourself, etc... try to focus on the positive. As Maryrrf said, you're better off on your own than with the wrong person.

Often we do things out of habit...

Subject: RE: Breaking up is hard to do
From: Scoville
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 02:40 PM

Love, Honor, & Dismay.

Subject: RE: Breaking up is hard to do
From: Ebbie
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 03:08 PM

Some time back I came upon this thought: We never get over the BIG losses, they will always hurt, (as evidenced by brain electrodes) but once we internalize the event we can go on, stronger, more compassionate and more, not less, secure.

That's not necessarily a good thought - who wants to have a faithless person be part of oneself? - but it is essential and in fact, inevitable for most people. The people who do NOT accept the experience and grow bigger because of it are the ones, in my opinion, who become the bitter, cynical people no one wants in their lives.

So, I would say, let yourself feel the pain.

Subject: RE: Breaking up is hard to do
From: jacqui.c
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 03:10 PM

It is difficult to believe, but it does get easier with time and, for most people, a broken relationship can be looked back on, given time, with equanimity or even "Why the hell did I get involved there?"

There are various stages of grieving to go through, as with any type of loss, but reason generally wins out in the end and it is possible to look back and see that that particular set up just wouldn't have survived the long run.

As Amos says, keep breathing deep breaths. Talk to whoever will listen, start looking at yourself in a positive manner. Try to avoid starting a new relationship too soon, learn to like yourself before getting involved with anyone else.

All the best to you - I think the majority of us have been there and can remember just what it was like. Most of us will listen if you need to 'talk'.

Subject: RE: Breaking up is hard to do
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 03:14 PM

Learn, understand and grow.

Try and concentrate on what's important to you (what was important before you met) and build on that, and if you've forgotten what those things are, then

a) get back in touch with them; your friends, hopes, activities, aspirations passions etc and

b) never let those things be marginalised again. Someone who cares about you will want to recognize the importance of things that are important to you.

The hard part for me is dealing with, on the one hand, caring deeply for someone, whilst at the same time being angry with them for their total lack of self respect let alone any kind of respect, understanding or empathy for me.

But just to make it more complicated still, in my case I have to come to terms with the fact that my ex was so badly damaged in her chiildhood that she really has no idea at all what any of the terms I have used really mean, so on the one hand I am wasting time caring, and on the other, I am wasting emotion being angry.

He/she who ignores their history is condemned to repeat it. I need to understand why I would allow myself to get so deeply embroiled in such an emotionally unfulfilling and damaging entanglement.

Subject: RE: Breaking up is hard to do
From: fat B****rd
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 03:15 PM

Most of the above. I found I had to grit my teeth and get on with stuff. Makes me count my blessings now that I'm relatively happily married again. Best regards from Charlie.

Subject: RE: Breaking up is hard to do
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 04:14 PM

When, after thirteen years of marriage, my first wife announced her desire for a divorce I was devastated... for approximately five minutes... until I realized that while it wasn't what I wanted, it was exactly what I needed.

Subject: RE: Breaking up is hard to do
From: SINSULL
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 04:29 PM

This is the same as losing a loved one to death. Give yourself time and permission to feel the disbelief, sorrow, anger, and whatever else comes out. Be careful who you share your emotions with. A true friend will listen but not take sides. You need a sounding board not advice. One day at a time.
S

Subject: RE: Breaking up is hard to do
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 05:15 PM

Yup, when you're young you can pick yourself up, dust yourself down and it gets better.

When you're older and let down by a longstanding partner, it can be harder, and take longer to get over, as Sinsull says, like a bereavement.

And remember, there's a difference between feeling sad and angry (which are justifiable emotions if it just hasn't worked, or someone has let you down) and feeling that it's your fault, which leads to low esteem and depression - not necessarily justified, and generally destructive!

Best of luck.

Kitty

Subject: RE: Breaking up is hard to do
From: Barry Finn
Date: 21 Nov 06 - 01:44 AM

Can't believe I'm saying this BUT the first guy that breaks my daughter's heart, I'm gonna break his jaw. The second guy I may just blacken his eye.

Try that Anon, it might not help the pain but I'll bet you won't feel as bad. You may even get a laugh out of it,,, after a while.






Don't follow any of my advice.

Barry

Subject: RE: Breaking up is hard to do
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 21 Nov 06 - 02:52 AM

If you look upon this life as something we have all been thrown into and are all trying to make our way through with as little hassle as possible.....I guess we all have to suffer loss and some of of get plenty of practice at it.... The only thing we can do, no matter how painful is move on,,,and try to bear as little animosity as possible for people who let you down, as they are sort of in the same boat as you really...just trying to make their way.
Any emotional pain slowly fades and can be 'got over' if not forgotten.
Hang in there friend and look at what the future holds for you..look at your own aims and ambitions and most of all the new opportunities this might have opened up for you.
Best wishes, Mike.

Subject: RE: Breaking up is hard to do
From: Bernard
Date: 21 Nov 06 - 04:13 AM

I'm sorry, but I don't agree that it's 'the same as losing a loved one to death'....

The big difference is the feeling of rejection.

I'm not saying the hurt is any less... just different.

In one way, the rejection can be a lot easier to get over if someone else walks into your life, but do take care that it isn't 'on the rebound' - that isn't fair on the other person.

Subject: RE: Breaking up is hard to do
From: GUEST,Confidentially Anonymous Guy
Date: 21 Nov 06 - 10:28 AM

Anon.

Joe Namath was on 60 Minutes last Sunday. Here was a guy that could have had any woman he wanted and was a player all his life. He married and had children, 2 girls. He, of all men, was content playing the role as Mr. Mom. Unbelievably, his wife dumped him for a plastic surgeon. Joe did not see it coming. You could hear the extreme pain in his voice and see it in the lines of his face when he said,

"Boy, life hurts a lot of times. Life hurts a lot of times," Namath says. "Whether you lose a puppy when you're 8 years old, a girlfriend when you're 15, go through a divorce with the family. You know, life hurts a lot of times."

Joe found himself alone like he never had been. He couldn't sleep, he told Simon. He had chest pains, trouble breathing. He was falling apart and he went back to his old comforter, the bottle.

"And do you think you were dealing with depression at the same time?" Simon asks.

"Absolutely. Absolutely. No doubt about it. Without recognizing it, without admitting to it, you know? It hits ya. And you keep it inside. It's consuming from the moment you lie down at night to the next day," Namath says.

Therefore, it can and does happen to anyone regardless of stature. Look at the ugly mess the McCartney's are going through.

The problem is you might have that person on your mind day and night, often every minute of the day to begin with. It can be tough at first, especially on waking each morning.

Here is what I suggest and some of the things are humorous but it works: Think of all the negative things about your ex lover then magnify those traits and annoying mannerisms. Also, picture would that person look like naked in 20 years with all the sagging, wrinkled body parts, etc. Did you really love that person well enough to change his Depends/diapers as you grew older together? The list goes on and on and on.

You are the only one that can keep yourself miserable in this case. You will probably never completely get over it but you will happily survive if you want to. Billions of humans have gone through this in life and many more will follow.

For any mild depression, you might consider taking 3 St. John's Wort supplements during the day (one tablet Am, 2 before bed because it can make you sleepy). It usually takes a week or so to start helping. Your own mind and a little help from your friends will eventually help you bear what has happened. Do Not rely on the "comforts" of alcohol!!

This is a beautiful wonderful life. Do not waste it on something that happened yesterday. Yesterday is dead and gone. Learn from it but do not linger on past hurt. You are alive and have many good life experiences to look forward to.

Music connection:

Make every day a Zip-a-dee-doo-dah Day

My, Oh My, what a wonderful day
Plenty of sunshine headin' my way…

Subject: RE: Breaking up is hard to do
From: rock chick
Date: 21 Nov 06 - 01:27 PM

GUEST,Confidentially Anonymous Guy - Great advise, print of the suggestions and read it when you are feeling real low guest anon, it may even make you smile. good luck.

Subject: RE: Breaking up is hard to do
From: SINSULL
Date: 21 Nov 06 - 01:53 PM

You're right, Bernard. The rejection and damage to your ego is an added pain.

Subject: RE: Breaking up is hard to do
From: Mr Red
Date: 21 Nov 06 - 03:46 PM

If it helps you get throught the day remember that

Time wounds heels.

Subject: RE: Breaking up is hard to do
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 21 Nov 06 - 03:56 PM

I hope so

Subject: RE: Breaking up is hard to do
From: Amergin
Date: 21 Nov 06 - 03:57 PM

Get really drunk it always helps.

Subject: RE: Breaking up is hard to do
From: GUEST,anon
Date: 22 Nov 06 - 04:44 AM

thanks..your advice is helpful and welcome s I knew it would be from you guys. As for talking to people in real time assomeone suggested I would but its easier to do it this way

Subject: RE: Breaking up is hard to do
From: GUEST,anon
Date: 22 Nov 06 - 05:42 AM

yep the hurt and rejection is a huge shock too.....but I am trying to be busy and look after myself too. I think at first you think you are the only one this has ever happened to, even though you know thats not true it feels like it....but your wise words are a great help

Subject: RE: Breaking up is hard to do
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 22 Nov 06 - 06:07 AM

Sadly there are no quick fixes to this situation. If you can beat the feelings of reflection by putting the person out of your mind every time they visit your head and tell yourself why they are no longer part of your life it will be a start.

Self worth is very important, total up your good points daily and build on them. Get yourself busy, walk, shop, clean or get at those small jobs you have been putting off.

Now for the cruel bit,

Ask yourself why you sit in thought of someone who threw back into your face everything you gave them.

Are they sitting in a chair right now feeling like shit, or are they getting on with their life ?

You will suffer three emotions, shock, hurt and anger.

Watch the anger, it will feed on you like cancer.

You will wake up some morning and discover you are over it, yes that old word "time" is the only cure on the table right now.

pm me if you need me.

Divis.

Subject: RE: Breaking up is hard to do
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 22 Nov 06 - 08:00 AM

Valerian can help you sleep - but DO NOT mix with booze - it makes me go down like a poleaxed hobbit.

Subject: RE: Breaking up is hard to do
From: Charley Noble
Date: 22 Nov 06 - 08:44 AM

There really isn't any way to speed up the process of grieving, nor do you ever get "satisfactory" answers. Your other friends, however, can be a welcome distraction, keep you busy, and at times amused, in between depression. It just takes a lot of time, and generally there is no way to "turn back the clock" and make it all better. Hopefully you'll be able to work something better out in the future.

And I wouldn't want to be the callous young man who breaks Barry's daughter's heart. No way!

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Breaking up is hard to do
From: Scoville
Date: 22 Nov 06 - 10:21 AM

I resorted to chocolate milk and the Cowboy Junkies when I was in college (at least until the bitch in the room next to me complained that the bass was rattling her shot glasses).

Subject: RE: Breaking up is hard to do
From: Schantieman
Date: 22 Nov 06 - 12:41 PM

Cry. Shout. Be angry.   Break things (old crockery or flowerpots are very satisfying and cheap). Have a drink or three if you like. Talk to your real friends. Get on with other things you really enjoy with people you really like. Sing, even if, no, especially if you don't feel like it - I'm convinced it helps.   Keep doing this until you start to feel better.

It takes time: After six years I'm on reasonably good terms with my ex, but reading this thread and writing this has brought back some of the emotions I felt when it happened.

Steve

Oh - and DON'T, whatever you do, read Jude the Obscure. It set me back six months - and I gave up halfway through!

PM if you like

S

Subject: RE: Breaking up is hard to do
From: kendall
Date: 22 Nov 06 - 02:19 PM

Nothing we say here will do a damn bit of good.
Only time can heal the pain. Give it time.

Subject: RE: Breaking up is hard to do
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 22 Nov 06 - 02:27 PM

Go out and start a new life, your real friends will folow you, and your false friends will be left far behind.
Giok

Subject: RE: Breaking up is hard to do
From: GUEST,Confidentially Anonymous Guy
Date: 22 Nov 06 - 02:34 PM

I strongly disagree kendall. Virtual "friends" with boundless world experiences with break-up grief can offer frank, nonjudgmental suggestions a close group of real friends could not.

I would liken it to reading a book on the subject. Anon can decide what is worthwhile or not but needs the knowledge that break-ups are a very common occurrence in life's peaks and valleys that almost all of us have gone through and survived to enjoy life.

Subject: Lyr Add: BEFORE HE CHEATS (Carrie Underwood)
From: Wesley S
Date: 22 Nov 06 - 02:43 PM

The following tacky song lyric is NOT to be taken as advice:

Before He Cheats - by Carrie Underwood

Right now he's probably slow dancing with a bleached-blond tramp,
and she's probably getting frisky...
right now, he's probably buying her some fruity little drink cause she can't shoot whiskey...
Right now, he's probably up behind her with a pool-stick, showing her how to shoot a combo...
And he don't know...
That I dug my key into the side of his pretty little suped up 4 wheel drive,
carved my name into his leather seat...
I took a Louisville slugger to both head lights,
slashed a hole in all 4 tires...
And maybe next time he'll think before he cheats.
Right now, she's probably up singing some
white-trash version of Shania karoke..
Right now, she's probably saying "I'm drunk"
and he's a thinking that he's gonna get lucky,
Right now, he's probably dabbing on 3 dollars worth of that bathroom cologne...
And he don't know...
That I dug my key into the side of his pretty little suped up 4 wheel drive,
carved my name into his leather seat,
I took a Louisville slugger to both head lights,
slashed a hole in all 4 tires...
And maybe next time he'll think before he cheats.
I might saved a little trouble for the next girl,
Cause the next time that he cheats...
Oh, you know it won't be on me!
Ohh... not on me...
Cause I dug my key into the side of his pretty little suped up 4 wheel drive,
carved my name into his leather seat...
I took a Louisville slugger to both head lights,
slashed a hole in all 4 tires...
Maybe next time he'll think before he cheats.
Ohh.. Maybe next time he'll think before he cheats...
Ohh... before he cheats...

Subject: RE: Breaking up is hard to do
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 22 Nov 06 - 05:48 PM

GUEST,Still living (just). Reading this correctly I hope, do you still have your partner in your life ?

You threw in a few negatives about yourself that I would prefer you didn't.

First, you are never too old or set in your ways to inject new life into any relationship.

Secondly this person was your whole reason for existance, that means you still love them and you can do something about it, hard as it may seem, but tell them and express yourself to them.

Thirdly, pills and drink only dull pain for a few hours, and are not the answer.

We are all here for you, remember that.

Divis.

Subject: RE: Breaking up is hard to do
From: Zany Mouse
Date: 22 Nov 06 - 05:51 PM

DON'T DRINK!!!! Drink is a depressive and will NOT help.

Hope things start to get better very soon. It will, I know.

Rhiannon

Subject: RE: Breaking up is hard to do
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 22 Nov 06 - 06:08 PM

Well, Guest and Rhiannon, I guess it partly depends whether you're looking at it from the point of view of the person who initiated the breakup or the person who was on the receiving end, and whether the breakup was by mutual agreement or not. I recognise what LilyFestre / Michelle was saying.

Kitty

Subject: RE: Breaking up is hard to do
From: open mike
Date: 22 Nov 06 - 06:26 PM

well, if you can stand another platitude
(or platypus...)

someone once said this to me and it has
come in handy several times:

"Just remember that even if it is cloudy,
the sun is still shining , you just can't
see it now from where you are."

or something to that effect..

any way I hope you find a way to
keep putting one foot infront of the
other leading in a new direction..

hang in there.

Subject: RE: Breaking up is hard to do
From: Alice
Date: 22 Nov 06 - 07:01 PM

"Life is long..."
Paul McCartney

I was just talking with a friend last night about how long life is when you are looking back from 50 something. She and I both had to laugh at who we were when we were young, how brokenhearted, and how different we are now. It DOES get better. Just hang in there and wait long enough and you will be OK.

Subject: RE: Breaking up is hard to do
From: Lox
Date: 22 Nov 06 - 07:06 PM

Life is long but

It passes so quickly

That you would do well to get over it sooner rather than later.

Subject: RE: Breaking up is hard to do
From: Lox
Date: 22 Nov 06 - 07:07 PM

make sure you have the volume up for that last link

Subject: RE: Breaking up is hard to do
From: GUEST,Confidentially Anonymous Guy
Date: 22 Nov 06 - 07:07 PM

Still living (just),

Do not ever think you must completely get out of the game if that is what you want. It would not do to mention names but I know this guy who admires women to the point he has and is willing to have relationships with a lady up to 30 years younger or older than he. There are many people looking for good relationships and age should not matter as long as they are above the age of consent.   

Accentuate your strong assets whatever those may be. Good looks, intelligence, curves, smarts, humor, whatever. You would be surprised at the possibilities.

You simply must get out of that depression even if it means seeing a professional. I had been the "victor" in all my previous break ups and thought I was invincible, but boy did I get what was coming to me, a through comeuppance! It is not anything I would want anyone else to experience.

Blame yourself if that was true, it was in my case, but no relationship is one-sided, as we all know.

IT will be tough but you will make it if you want to. What are the alternatives? Certainly much worse than attempts at self-help or professional assistance and finally losing that tunnel you speak of.

Subject: RE: Breaking up is hard to do
From: Kaleea
Date: 22 Nov 06 - 08:04 PM

Yes, it really will get better. It's a little less worse each day. Meanwhile, try to get with friends, go to the jams, have some fun! Don't forget your sense of humor.

About a million years back, I said "I do" and I did. He said "I do" but he didn't. I know that breaking up is lousy. I recall the stinging pain of finding out that my husband no longer wanted to be married. Yep, he "dun stomped on m' heart, & he mashed that sucker flat . . . he jist sorta stomped on mah aorta . . ."
That was a while back--the year John Lennon was shot. And what of my broken heart? Well, my heart recovered. But I'm still single, though. I guess I just never met the right feller.
But if'n any of you know his number . . .
His number is probably gonna be up by the time I find him, huh?



If all else fails, try this prayer:

God bless that schmuck
and keep that schmuck
Far away from me!

Subject: BS: Breaking Up is Hard to Do_Redux
From: GUEST,Confidentially Anonymous Guy
Date: 23 Nov 06 - 09:58 AM

The first thread was deleted probably because another GUEST (durn GUESTS!) posted two very unfair salacious remarks about a member.

"Anon." (who started the thread) and "Still living (just)" wanted advice, however worthwhile or not (their decision), were receiving advice and it seemed to be helping other people as well.

If those two or others are still seeking advice, I guess you can post to this thread or start another.

Good luck and just remember, billions of humans have recovered from terrible break ups at least since humans became bipeds and the species has survived to be responsible for your current break up!

There is still a beautiful, fulfilling, worthwhile life following any break up even though that might seem impossible for you now.

---

Threads combined. Messages above are from the previous thread. It will take me some time to review and move the ones that can be moved, especially since I'm entertaining out-of-town guests.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: BS: Breaking Up is Hard to Do_Redux
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 23 Nov 06 - 06:00 PM

It's a pity, I thought there was much wisdom in that thread and I read with anticipation wht others had to say on the subject.

Subject: RE: BS: Breaking Up is Hard to Do_Redux
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Nov 06 - 06:01 PM

I have a copy of the whole thread, or most of it at least. If you need a copy, say so.

Subject: RE: BS: Breaking Up is Hard to Do_Redux
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 23 Nov 06 - 06:03 PM

I'm impressed and tempted, but I don't think I'll be taking you up on it. I'd much prefer to clutter up the mudcat database ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Breaking Up is Hard to Do_Redux
From: GUEST,Confidentially Anonymous Guy
Date: 24 Nov 06 - 10:44 AM

Maybe we could reconstruct the good parts Guest has while leaving the few bad posts out, if there is still an interest (the Admins could delete any future derogatory posts out like they have done before to other threads, if needed, and leave the good posts).

What say you anon. and others? Still need more discussion on this topic?

Subject: RE: BS: Breaking Up is Hard to Do_Redux
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 24 Nov 06 - 12:26 PM

Not here to knock anyone why two comments came in to end the original thread, I seen it as something between two people that spilled over. I feel there was solid sound advice on the thread which could of helped many other members. Get it up again and just delete the personal attacking ones.
Divis

Subject: RE: BS: Breaking Up is Hard to Do_Redux
From: jacqui.c
Date: 24 Nov 06 - 01:19 PM

I'd agree with that.

Subject: RE: BS: Breaking Up is Hard to Do_Redux
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 24 Nov 06 - 01:24 PM

The thing is that in the light of later knowledge, some of the seemingly innocuous threads become somewhat sinister. Where do you draw the line?
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Breaking Up is Hard to Do_Redux
From: GUEST,Confidentially Anonymous Guy
Date: 24 Nov 06 - 02:07 PM

Okay, I will start. I have some modified snippets of my previous posts. This interview with Joe Namath illustrated that sometimes it does not matter how good of a person you try to be or who you are, we are all susceptible to being dumped, sometimes very hard, sometimes without a clue why, and sometimes by very good people who once loved us unconditionally. It is just one of those inexplicable conundrums of life.

Anon.

Joe Namath was on 60 Minutes last Sunday. Here was a guy that could have had any woman he wanted and was a player all his life. He married and had children, 2 girls. He, of all men, was content playing the role as Mr. Mom. Unbelievably, his wife dumped him for a plastic surgeon. Joe did not see it coming. You could hear the extreme pain in his voice and see it in the lines of his face when he said,

"Boy, life hurts a lot of times. Life hurts a lot of times," Namath says. "Whether you lose a puppy when you're 8 years old, a girlfriend when you're 15, go through a divorce with the family. You know, life hurts a lot of times."

Joe found himself alone like he never had been. He couldn't sleep, he told Simon. He had chest pains, trouble breathing. He was falling apart and he went back to his old comforter, the bottle.

"And do you think you were dealing with depression at the same time?" Simon asks.

"Absolutely. Absolutely. No doubt about it. Without recognizing it, without admitting to it, you know? It hits ya. And you keep it inside. It's consuming from the moment you lie down at night to the next day," Namath says.
Therefore, it can happen to anyone regardless of stature. Look at the ugly mess the McCartney's are going through.

The problem is you are going to have that person on your mind day and night, often every waking minute of the day. It can be tough especially on waking each morning.

Here is what I suggest and some of the things are humorous but it works: Think of all the negative things about your ex lover then magnify those traits and annoying mannerisms. Also, picture would that person look like naked in 20 years with all the sagging, wrinkled body parts, etc. Did you really love that person well enough to change his Depends/diapers, as you grew older together? The list goes on and on and on.

You are the only one that can keep yourself miserable in this case. You will probably never completely get over it but you will survive if you want to. Billions of humans have gone through this in life and many more will follow.

For any mild depression, you might consider taking 3 St. John's Wort supplements during the day (one tablet Am, 2 before bed). It usually takes a week or so to start helping, but it may not help at all for you. Your own mind and a little help from your friends will eventually help you bear what has happened.

Do not hesitate to get professional help especially if friends say something like "you seem to be under a lot of stress" or "you just don't seem to be your old self" or you find yourself wanting to stay curled up in the fetal position, pull the cover up over your head, and stay in bed each morning, etc.

This is a beautiful wonderful life. Do not waste it on something that happened yesterday. Yesterday is dead and gone. Learn from it but do not linger on past hurt. You are alive and have many good life experiences to look forward to.   


Make every day a Zip-a-dee-doo-dah Day

My Oh My what a wonderful day
Plenty of sunshine headin' my way…

Subject: RE: BS: Breaking Up is Hard to Do_Redux
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 24 Nov 06 - 02:55 PM

We don't "need" to discuss any of the subjects on this site. We do it because we like to.

That doesn't mean that our efforts are meaningless or lacking in importance by any stretch of the imagnation.

I don't need this thread, but I am sure I will derive great sustenance from it for my mind and my soul if it carries on.

I love the depth with which people commit themselves to discussions on this site. It is very rare that anyone posts rubbish.

I grow a little wiser with each visit.

I of course reserve the right to disagree with anything you say though.

Subject: RE: BS: Breaking Up is Hard to Do_Redux
From: Joe Offer
Date: 24 Nov 06 - 03:57 PM

I don't mind threads like this, but I felt I had to delete the other thread because it got into personal stuff that then resulted in some vicious personal attacks. I'll allow this thread to continue - on probation - but I'm going to ask the volunteers to monitor it closely. Anything that has the slightest hint of being an attack on anybody, will be deleted.
I'll move some of the messages from the other thread over here.
Any suggestions for ground rules for keeping the peace on this thread?
If it gets out of hand, I'll delete the whole thing and I won't allow another thread on this subject. Please remember that you are posting on an open Forum. If you are not careful about what you say, you invite attacks from some pretty nasty people. I can't protect you from them if you open yourself to attack. Some people have come down on me before, comparing my comments to blaming the victim of a rape - I think it's more like hollering at a kid for playing in the middle of the freeway. You DO have to be careful about what you say in an open Internet Forum - that's a fact of life. I cannot protect individuals who do not protect themselves - so please, be careful about the personal information you reveal.
I have an obligation to keep the peace here, and that means I may have to close this thread down if it gets out of control.
-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Breaking Up is Hard to Do_Redux
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 24 Nov 06 - 04:09 PM

I felt the ladies post was understanding to the question posed. Sadly something personal outside of our business began to come through.
Just hope both can work it out and get their differing views out of the way and get on with life. Life can be hard enough for all of us. Best wishes to both parties now they have had time to think it over.

Thank Christ the word Ireland or Irish hasn't been mentioned in this thread as the paddy beaters are out tonight on other threads !

Divis

Subject: RE: BS: Breaking Up is Hard to Do_Redux
From: GUEST,Confidentially Anonymous Guy
Date: 24 Nov 06 - 05:26 PM

Joe Offer, you are a good, fair man.

The Lady member who posted did so courageously and added an authentic current real-life break-up situation. Those who got the chance to read it learned something invaluable about how break-ups adversely affect not just the two very good people involved but also many others.

Everyone should accept what happened to both of them without criticism. If you have been in their situation before then you know very well what I am saying. A break-up is one of the most gut-wrenching experiences short of death that people can experience. The best of people will do and say things very much out-of-character for them during a break-up.

The one recommendation I have is the GUEST that posted the salacious, slanderous remarks should be banned from Mudcat, as should any others that post such direct character assassinations in this thread or elsewhere on the forum.

Subject: RE: BS: Breaking Up is Hard to Do_Redux
From: Big Mick
Date: 24 Nov 06 - 05:41 PM

There is a huge difference between speaking conceptually on one hand, and hashing out a personal relationship on the other. Especially when many of us here know both parties and are broken hearted that it didn't work out. Joe handled it different than I was going to, but I support him completely. The point is that real damage can be done to people we care about. I am not going to sit by and allow that, and am pleased that action was taken. The whole thing is sad enough as it is.

To the person that made the crude remarks I say this. You have no class, and are a vile person. There is no excuse for you butting in to this in a public way. You didn't live in the house, and even if you are completely right, it is unforgiveable for you to insert yourself. I can only hope that one day someone inserts themselves into your personal business and puts it out on a worldwide forum. It is cowardly and none of your business. I would hope that you are ashamed, but I doubt you have much of that.

Now, get on with the discussion and cut the crap.

Rant off.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Breaking Up is Hard to Do_Redux
From: GUEST,Still living (just)
Date: 24 Nov 06 - 08:21 PM

Cripes. Couldnt find this thread for two days after my post.
Thought I had said something to cause it to be deleted myself.
Thanks for the sympathetic replies. I mean that.
Yes, we are still "together" but only in body.
We do not communicate. And that is probably the underlying reason for our present trouble.
My biggest problem is that Depression makes you realise that your own brain can be your worst enemy.
You have relied upon it for your whole life, then WHAMMO - it kicks you in the nuts. Telling you things that you know are not true, but in such a way that you believe all.
Pills? Yes, I have been prescribed pills, but they dont appear to help. Was it the pills that made me stay with my errant wife, by damping my natural reaction to leave?
Or is my depression winning out by driving me even deeper into the abyss I am busy constructing for myself?
That is my most pressing fear.
If I DO leave home & family, I will have nothing, and after 30yrs of marriage I have become useless at fending for myself.
There lies the "dark tunnel" as I would rather end my life than go down the slow road of self destruction that would be my lot, thanks.
(Note to Joe. Please feel free to delete this post if you feel it is in any way likely to cause trouble - I shall carry on posting to other threads in my real ((mudcatter)) name)

Subject: RE: BS: Breaking Up is Hard to Do_Redux
From: Alice
Date: 24 Nov 06 - 08:32 PM

Anon Still living,
It takes time for medication for depression to make a difference.
Is it companionship that you think you will lose so you "can't fend for" yourself? Companionship comes in many forms and anyone at any age can learn to have new companions. I'd rather be with my dog for companionship than with someone who makes me feel bad.
Hang in there. Things change for everyone in life, and that's not always a bad thing.

Subject: RE: BS: Breaking Up is Hard to Do_Redux
From: SINSULL
Date: 24 Nov 06 - 08:41 PM

Still Living,
Drugs without therapy is treating the symptom while letting the cause grow. Get some professional help and if possible get your wife to join you.

I asked Joe to remove the GUEST posts which I found so offensive. I hope it was an anonymous troll. Real friends listen and love. Nothing more.
Mary

Subject: RE: BS: Breaking Up is Hard to Do_Redux
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 24 Nov 06 - 10:32 PM

Great minds discuss ideas,
Average minds discuss events,
Small minds discuss people.

Subject: RE: BS: Breaking Up is Hard to Do_Redux
From: GUEST,No longer in the dark tunnel
Date: 25 Nov 06 - 07:40 AM

Dear Still Living Guest, as someone who has also lived in that "dark tunnel" of which you speak, my heart goes out to you. I lived in it, within a psychologically abusive marriage, for many years before I finally found the courage, as you now have, to voice my thoughts and fears to others.

There is nothing worse than being in that abyss, feeling that you are alone and with no way out. If your partner, by their words or actions, slowly kills your self-esteem over the years, it becomes all too easy to believe the negative, despite that tiny positive voice deep inside you which tells you otherwise. I am so glad to see from your post that you are wise enough to recognize that this is happening. Do keep listening to your own 'positives', however small they may seem at first - because, believe me, by listening to them, and shutting out the rest, the positives will grow and give you ever greater strength and confidence.

Please know that you have done the very best thing by speaking here, and carry on talking - here and, step by step, in the 3D world also. Once I started talking to people about my situation (which I had kept quiet for so long, trying to keep up the pretence of a happy family), I came to see that I was far from alone and that where I thought there was no way out, there were many good, positive choices before me. I remember so clearly the relief, the feeling of walking through a door that had been barred to me. I only realized later that I had been the one barring the door. It had been open all the time. Realizing that you DO have a choice, even without necessarily acting upon it, will start to bring the light flooding back into your life.

As others have said here, I urge you to talk and talk and talk some more, to as many trusted people as you can find, both people you already know, and also to helping organizations, such as Relate. The more people you talk to, taking time to think things through, the more confident you will be that each step you take towards making changes in your life will be YOUR decision.

Please consider this: moving into an unknown future which, looking from the outside, may appear to point to "nothing" could in fact turn out to be "everything" once you have walked a little way into it, step by step.

This may or may not be the choice you eventually make, but I did choose to leave my long marriage, 7 years ago now. It was not a hasty decision, I did all that talking I've mentioned above. Yes, at the outset, when I first started to realize that I DID have that option (despite all the barriers I had put up for myself against leaving)I found the thought of it scary, like walking into "nothing" -but that was before I started seriously talking, thinking and taking sensible time over it. I have said here in previous threads on this subject, that I would so much love to "revisit" my old self, in my old life, to put my arm around myself and say "It won't always be like this. You do have a choice. You can and will make everything very different and very much better."

I can't go back in time and do that - but I can say that now, to you.

Subject: RE: BS: Breaking Up is Hard to Do_Redux
From: Maryrrf
Date: 25 Nov 06 - 09:16 AM

I can't add anything to what the above poster said, but it was beautifully put. Thanks for posting that.   From where Still Living is, it must seem very dark right now, but there is light on the horizon. You will recover, and find enjoyment and peace in life again. I must repeat, it's much, much better not to be in a relationship than to be in a relationship with the wrong person.

Subject: Lyr Add: BREAKING UP IS HARD TO DO (Neil Sedaka)
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 25 Nov 06 - 05:39 PM

Breaking Up Is Hard To Do

Written by N. Sedaka and H. Greenfield
Recorded by Neil Sedaka
Also recorded by The Carpenters, The Partridge Family, and Lenny Welch


Don't take your love away from me
Don't you leave my heart in misery
If you go then I'll be blue
'Cause breaking up his hard to do

Remember when you held me tight
And you kissed me all through the night
Think of all that we've been through
Breaking up is hard to do

They say that breaking up is hard to do
Now I know, I know that it's true
Don't say that this is the end
Instead of breaking up I wish that we were making up again

I beg of you, don't say goodbye
Can't we give our love another try
Come on baby, let's start anew
'Cause breaking up is hard to do


There!
Now it's a Music Thread!

Subject: RE: BS: Breaking Up is Hard to Do_Redux
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 25 Nov 06 - 06:15 PM

I'm glad this is back.

It's hard to contribute to a thread like this without being personal. In fact, what drew me to it was the relevance to me. If I hadn't had these experences recently, I might have just ignored it, looking for something a bit more upbeat.

In that respect, it is probably realistic to expect a certain amount of partisanism to one side or the other of the issue.

I am extremely blunt when I speak to my ex, for reasons that exist between us. They are not reasons that the mudcat is particularly in need of knowing though, and it is obviously better not to let a brawl develop in a public forum. It serves merely to embarass both parties, and cause more hurt, thus undermining the whole intention, which presumably is to make oneself feel better.

Hence, in his forum, I would rather focus on how I feel and how I deal with that. I am interested to know how other people feel and have felt, and how they deal with it, and that includes people for whom the roles have been reversed.

So far, there has been much that has offered me solace and understanding. You're a good bunch. Don't worry about trolls.

Subject: Lyr Add: LOOKING BACK (Nat King Cole)
From: GUEST,Confidentially Anonymous Guy
Date: 25 Nov 06 - 07:28 PM

Good to have you back, lox.

You tough self-centered men out there that have caused a breakup, listen up.

If you dump your girl, you may have a later change in mind. However, that change may come too late. If you are turned down with your apologies to the ex you broke up with, you just might experience the same or worse feelings she suffered. The remorse can be tremendous and almost unbearable.

If you have never experienced the "silent treatment" from a steadfast woman you certainly do not want to. I thought, she could not make it without me and she would get over what I said. 6 months later, well, that has not happened and I doubt I will ever be forgiven. The finality of that is extremely tough to accept.

Thing Called Love by Jimmy Dean

Six foot six he stood on the ground

Weighed two hundred and thirty-five pounds

But I saw that giant of a man brought down

To his knees by Love



LOOKING BACK by Nat King Cole

Looking back over my life
I can see where I caused you strife
But I know, oh yes I know
I'd never make that same mistake again

Looking back over my deeds
I can see signs a wise man heeds
And if I just had the chance
I'd never make that same mistake again

Once my cup was overflowing
But I gave nothing in return
Now I can't begin to tell you
What a lesson I have learned

Looking back over the slate
I can see love turned to hate
But I know, oh yes I know
I'd never make that same mistake again



Unfortunately for me, my ex will never give me the opportunity to "never make that same mistake again". Any love that was there has turned to hate.

I must forever live with my deeds and certainly, I did not "see signs a wise man heeds"

Therefore men, corral your cockiness and think about what you say to your girl before you spout out hurtful words you can never ever take back.


"I was a big man yesterday
but boy you oughta to see me now!"

Big Man by Four Preps.

Subject: RE: BS: Breaking Up is Hard to Do_Redux
From: katlaughing
Date: 25 Nov 06 - 08:21 PM

It works both ways. Remember that Robert Earl Keen song where he is described as being "a short-range victim of her sawed-off mouth?"

From a blessing I wrote for my daughter when she was married:

Guide your minds and hearts
To think before speaking,
To love without judgement,
To cherish in all ways,
To respect with honour,
   For in the division of hurts,
   There is no honour.


kat

Subject: Lyr Add: I WISH I WERE IN LOVE AGAIN (Rodgers/Hart
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 26 Nov 06 - 05:05 AM

The sleepless nights
The daily fights
The quick toboggan when you reach the heights
I miss the kisses and I miss the bites
I wish I were in love again

The broken dates
The endless waits
The lovely loving and the hateful hates
The conversations with the flying plates
I wish I were in love again

No more pain
No no more strain
Now Im sane
But Id rather be punch drunk

The flying fur of cat and cur
The fine mismatching of a him and her
Ive learned my lesson but
I wish I were in love again

The furtive sigh
The blackened eye
The words I love you till the day I die
The self-deception that believes that lie
I wish I were in love again

When love congeals
It soon reveals
The faint aroma of performing seals
The double-crossing of a pair of heels
I wish I were in love again

No more care
No more despair
Now Im all there
But Id rather be punch drunk

Believe me sir, I much prefer
The classic battle of a him and her
I dont like quiet and I wish I were
In love again
In love again

Rogers & Hart

Subject: RE: BS: Breaking Up is Hard to Do_Redux
From: Diva
Date: 26 Nov 06 - 05:52 AM

To anon and still living. I was once told that the best revenge was living well and it is!!! Look after yourself, make nice meals, pamper yourself etc just small things but they reinforce your sense of self and that you are worth making a fuss of

Subject: RE: BS: Breaking Up is Hard to Do_Redux
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Nov 06 - 07:22 PM

Mr. Red posted the phrase below in a "sister" thread to this one.

To paraphrase:

If You Love something set it free, if it comes back to you it is yours, if it doesn't it never was.

Subject: RE: BS: Breaking Up is Hard to Do_Redux
From: Blowzabella
Date: 27 Nov 06 - 07:26 PM

It sounds awful trite but, when I was a teenager, i decded my maxim would be 'don't worry about things which you can't do anything about'. i think i meant If You Love something set it free, if it comes back to you it is yours, if it doesn't it never was.

Subject: RE: BS: Breaking Up is Hard to Do_Redux
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Nov 06 - 07:52 PM

"We do not possess anything in this world, least of all other people. We only imagine that we do. Our friends, our lovers, our spouses, even our children are not ours; they belong only to themselves. Possessive and controlling friendships and relationships can be as harmful as neglect."


The Phrase is derived from a Chinese Proverb, If You Love Something...

Subject: RE: BS: Breaking Up is Hard to Do_Redux
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 27 Nov 06 - 07:55 PM

And I am loving watching my daughters little wings develop.

Can't wait to see her fly.

Subject: RE: BS: Breaking Up is Hard to Do_Redux
From: catspaw49
Date: 27 Nov 06 - 08:39 PM

"If You Love something set it free.
If it comes back to you it is yours,
If it doesn't it never was.
But since you have time and effort invested,
Hunt it down and kill it."
..............................................O.J. Simpson



Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Breaking Up is Hard to Do_Redux
From: JudeL
Date: 27 Nov 06 - 09:12 PM

phrase from the song wings sung by artisan (amongst others)

"if you give your love it's freedom it may stay a while, if it doesn't it was never yours to own"

Subject: RE: BS: Breaking Up is Hard to Do_Redux
From: GUEST,Stratis Thalassinos
Date: 27 Nov 06 - 09:25 PM

So Profound, so true

They told us you'll conquer when you submit
We submitted and found ashes
They told us you'll conquer when you love
We loved and found ashes
They told us you'll conquer when you abandon life
We abandoned our life and found ashes

We found ashes. It remains to rediscover our life, now that we've nothing left. I imagine that he who'll rediscover life, in spite of so much paper, so many emotions, so many debates and so much teaching, will be someone like us only with a slightly tougher memory. We ourselves can't help still remembering what we've given. He'll remember only what he's gained from each of his offerings. What can a flame remember? If it remembers a little less than is necessary, it goes out; if it remembers a little more than is necessary, it goes out. If only it could teach us, while it burns, to remember correctly. I've come to an end: if only someone could begin at the point where I've ended. There are times when I have the impression that I've reached the limit, that everything's in its place, ready to sing together in harmony. The machine on the point of starting. I can even imagine it in motion, alive, like something unsuspectedly new. But there is still something: an infinitesimal obstacle, a grain of sand, shrinking and shrinking yet unable to disappear completely. I don't know what I ought to say or what I ought to do. Sometimes that obstacle seems to me like a teardrop wedged into some articulation of the orchestra, keeping it silent until its been dissolved. And I have an unbearable feeling that all the rest of my life wont be sufficient to dissolve this drop within my soul. And I'm haunted by the thought that if they were to burn me alive, this obstinate moment would be the last to surrender,

Seferis, Stratis Thalassinos describes a man

Subject: RE: BS: Breaking Up is Hard to Do_Redux
From: katlaughing
Date: 27 Nov 06 - 11:05 PM

For more about the above author Click Here

Subject: RE: BS: Breaking Up is Hard to Do_Redux
From: GUEST,Student J
Date: 28 Nov 06 - 11:11 AM

Breaking up is so very hard to do.
If you really love him,
and there's nothing I can do,
Don't try to spare my feelings,
Just tell me that we're through,
And make it easy on yourself.

Subject: Lyr Add: I CAN'T HELP IT (Hank Williams)
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Nov 06 - 11:37 AM

Today I passed you on the street
And my heart fell at your feet
I can't help it if I'm still in love with you
Somebody else was by your side
And she looked so satisfied
I can't help it if I'm still in love with you

A picture from the past came slowly stealing
As I brushed your arm and stood so close to you
Suddenly I got that old time feeling
I can't help it if I'm still in love with you

It's hard to know another's lips have kissed you
And held you close the way I used to do
Heaven only knows how much I miss you
I can't help it if I'm still in love with you
No I can't help it if I'm still in love with you

Subject: RE: BS: Breaking Up is Hard to Do_Redux
From: Diva
Date: 30 Nov 06 - 07:28 AM

The brian Burford song Wings is just so perfect to describe so many situations, particularly break ups.It is also particularly apt for me as the mother of a teenager which was the reason it was written, I think. I think when you are young sometimes you don't have the confidence in yourself to let go of relationships that have perhaps run their course. We live and learn.

Subject: RE: BS: Breaking Up is Hard to Do_Redux
From: Scoville
Date: 30 Nov 06 - 12:30 PM

"Letting people go when you love them so,
That's the hardest lesson you can learn,
Birds will learn to fly,
They'll either fly or die,
And if you help them sometimes they return."

I can't remember the rest and I can't find it online. From a self-released album by a guy named Bob White. It's a great album. If anyone knows what became of him I'd like to know.