Lyr origin: Rock the Cradle Lucy

Subject: Lyr origin: Rock the Cradle Lucy
From: GUEST,Richie
Date: 23 Nov 06 - 10:50 PM

Hi,

I was listening to "Rock the Cradle Lucy." Seems like the lyrics originated from the minstrel song "Miss Lucy Long."

The first published edition of "Miss Lucy Long" is uncredited in a 1842 songster called Old American Songs. Billy Whitlock of the Virginia Minstrels later claimed the song in his autobiography: "I composed . . . 'Miss Lucy Long' (with words by T. G. Booth) in 1838."

Does anyone have the lyrics/recording of Joe Ayers' Miss Lucy Long/ Lucy Long?

Anyone have Mainer's Mountaineer's lyrics?

Seems like Rock the Cradle Joe/Lucy have similar lyrics. I guess they both floated from the minstrel song.

Anyone have the Brown collection lyrics to Uncle Joe? [The Frank C. Brown Collection Of North Carolina Folklore, Volume 3] These are lyrics that can be used to sing Rock the Cradle Joe. Anyone have "Uncle Joe Cut Off His Toe," a nursery rhyme?

Richie

Subject: RE: Lyr origin: Rock the Cradle Lucy
From: Peace
Date: 23 Nov 06 - 11:02 PM

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miss_Lucy_Long - 33k

MLL stuff there. Not a bad article.



Scroll to 'Rock the Cradle, Joe'.

Subject: RE: Lyr origin: Rock the Cradle Lucy
From: GUEST,Richie
Date: 23 Nov 06 - 11:11 PM

Thanks Peace,

Here's a link to the article:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miss_Lucy_Long

The essential lyrics are:

Take your time Miss Lucy
Take your time Miss Lucy Long
Rock de cradle Lucy
Take your time my dear.

I already have the info from Ceolas. That's the collection that have several different collected verses of Uncle Joe.

There's also info about Rock the Cradle Lucy.

Richie

Subject: RE: Lyr origin: Rock the Cradle Lucy
From: Peace
Date: 23 Nov 06 - 11:16 PM

Thank you, too, Richie. Note that some lyrics to "Uncle Joe Cut Off His Toe" are in the active link posted above.

Subject: RE: Lyr origin: Rock the Cradle Lucy
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Nov 06 - 11:36 PM

Peace,

I had all this info and more before I made the post. I wanted the rest of the nursery rhyme, if anyone had it.

I do appreciate your help tho.

Here's a link to an authentic performance of "Miss Lucy Long." Just click on the MP3 boxes and it will play.

http://www.iath.virginia.edu/utc/minstrel/lucylongfr.html

A bit different than the Skillet Lickers, whose version resembles Soldier's Joy.

Richie

Subject: RE: Lyr origin: Rock the Cradle Lucy
From: Peace
Date: 23 Nov 06 - 11:37 PM

OK. Sorry to waste the time. If I find anything I'll post it.

Subject: RE: Lyr origin: Rock the Cradle Lucy
From: GUEST,Richie
Date: 23 Nov 06 - 11:53 PM

Hey Peace,

You provided information that will help others. That's important to me and to them.

Thank you!

Richie

Subject: RE: Lyr origin: Rock the Cradle Lucy
From: Peace
Date: 24 Nov 06 - 12:18 AM

I didn't mean it like that. I wasn't aware of the extent you'd already researched the song. What do you need looked for, Richie?

Subject: RE: Lyr origin: Rock the Cradle Lucy
From: GUEST,Bob Coltman
Date: 24 Nov 06 - 06:01 AM

Richie, the Brown version complete is:

OLD UNCLE JOE CUT OFF HIS TOE (p 134)
"Reported by S.M. Davis of White Hall on the Neuse River as a nursery rhyme: 'A song my mother's old nurse used to sing her to sleep by.'"

Uncle Joe cut off his toe
And hung it up to dry,
The ladies began to laugh
And Joe began to cry,

Cho   Rock the cradle, rock the cradle,
         Rock the cradle, Joe,
         I will not rock, I shall not rock,
         For the baby is not mine.

My wife is sick, my wife is sick,
My wife is sick abed,
You hateful Reb, you hateful Reb,
There's whiskey in your head.

Brown considers it related to collections of floating lyrics such as "The squir'l he has a bushy tail," some Liza Jane, Jay Bird and Old Gray Mule verses, and

Peaches in the summer time, apples in the fall.
If I can't get the gal I want I won't have none at all.

Cabbage in the summer time, collards in the fall,
(no rhyme line given)

For what it's worth, I don't see this as a spur off "Miss Lucy Long." It seems distinct. Bob

Subject: RE: Lyr origin: Rock the Cradle Lucy
From: GUEST,Richie
Date: 24 Nov 06 - 07:52 AM

Thanks for the complete lyrics Bob. Bye the way Bob, I have more info on the "Tell Old Bill/This morning" songs from the song "The Wagon." You can probably get it from a google search. If you want I'll post it if I can find the thread.

I play and teach "Rock the Cradle Joe." I'd like some lyrics to sing to the song.

Peace, I'm doing research into the origins and comparing lyric versions for my web-site and possibly another book in the future. This is a good place to share knowledge and ideas that others can use as well.

Richie

Subject: RE: Lyr origin: Rock the Cradle Lucy
From: Peace
Date: 24 Nov 06 - 12:29 PM

OK. Specifically, what do you want looked into that you don't have the time for?

Subject: RE: Lyr origin: Rock the Cradle Lucy
From: GUEST,Pete Peterson
Date: 24 Nov 06 - 03:56 PM

"Rock the Cradle Lucy" as played the the Cofer Bros (source for the Orpheus Supertones recording) and the Skillet Lickers is, to me, a different song/ tune from "Rock the Cradle Joe." And of course, the verse sung by both of the above:
"Rock the cradle Lucy, rock the cradle high
Rock the cradle Lucy, don't let the baby cry"
    is a common "floater" verse in Soldier's Joy.
Meade (Country Music Sources) lists several recordings of "Lucy" including the above.
In contrast, "Rock the Cradle Joe" does NOT appear in Meade's collection-- yet was a common Round Peak tune (I learned it directly from Ray Alden, who learned it from Tommy Jarrell and Fred Cockerham) and according to Donleavy's book of interviews with Appalachian musicians, is "over a hundred years old."

   Singing:
"Gotta get up, gotta get up, gotta go to work in the morning
But every time the baby cries it's Rock the cradle, Joe"

to the "A" part

and "Rock the cradle Lucy. . ." to the "B" part

are common at jams in the Phila. area.

The verse (to the "B" part) of
"I'll go down to Macdonalds, I'll stand there in the line
I'll buy a billion hamburgers and watch them change the sign"

is obviously contemporary; first heard it sung by Martha Burns around 1980.

Pete Peterson

I never knew about the "Miss Lucy Long" connection.

Subject: RE: Lyr origin: Rock the Cradle Lucy
From: GUEST,Richie
Date: 24 Nov 06 - 05:29 PM

Thanks Pete,

For some reason I think I may know you. As I remember you were from the Eden, NC area.

I agree that the two songs are different. I think maybe the title and some of the lyrics floated from Miss Lucy Long. I've played "Rock the Cradle Joe" for awhile now. I learned it from another Eden picker Doug Rorrer, Kinney's brother. I have the Skillet Licker's version which resembles Soldier's Joy, which I also play. I have the Cofer Brother's version lyrics somewhere which I can post.


Peace- It's not really a matter of time, even tho on my own I could probably trak down the info eventually. Here are two of the original questions that have not been answered:

Does anyone have the lyrics/recording of Joe Ayers' Miss Lucy Long/ Lucy Long? Joe Ayers version was referenced in the Wikipedia article. Anyone have Mainer's Mountaineer's lyrics?

The lyrics were posted to OLD UNCLE JOE CUT OFF HIS TOE but no info has been given about this nursery rhyme. Do other versions exsist? Where does the Uncle Joe rhyme come from?

Richie

Subject: RE: Lyr origin: Rock the Cradle Lucy
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 24 Nov 06 - 05:44 PM

'Rock the cradle Lucy' may have floated into "Miss Lucy Long," it doesn't appear in the 1842 printings, which do have the 'scolding wife' verse.
'Rock the cradle Lucy' is sung in a version recorded by Lomax in 1939.
Rock the Cradle Lucy and Rock the Cradle Joe both appear in a version at The Fiddler's Companion, http://www.ibiblio.org/fiddlers/ROC.htm

'Uncle Joe cut off his toe' may have floated in from the nursery rhyme.

The old English song, "Rock the Cradle, John," has the chorus:
Rock the cradle, John,
Rock the cradle, John,
For there's many a man who rocks another man's bairn,
And thinks he is rocking his own.
Firth c.26(180), by J. B. Geoghegan, c. 1850?
I doubt that is has anything to do with the American dance tune.

"Rock the Cradle, John" is listed in "Wehman's complete dancing master and call book: containing full and complete..." No. 1, c.1889.
http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/r?ammem/musdi:@field(DOCID+@lit(M091218)) Or search from
http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query (another Wehman book listed)

Subject: RE: Lyr origin: Rock the Cradle Lucy
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Nov 06 - 05:54 PM

Thanks Q,

Here are two versions from 1844. There are also some blues/jazz versions that were popular in the 1920's and 1930's.

"Lucy Long" (1844)
Words and Music--anon.
Sung by the Ethiopian Serenaders

London: Musical Bouquet, No. 82, page 136
[Source: 017/130@Levy]

1.
Oh now I come afore you,
To sing a little song
And play de tum tum Bongo,
Bout luby Lucy Long,
Oh! none's so fair as Lucy.
Dat sweet Lucy Long,
Oh none's so fair as Lucy,
Dat Lucy, Miss Lucy Long.

2.
Miss Lucy's berry saucy,
Whene'er I talk ob lub --
You'd tink her eyes were comets --
Dey're as big as a washing tub
So lubly as dat Lucy --
Miss Lucy Miss Lucy Long.

3.
Her face, all black sad shiny,
Is smooth as de skins ob soles;
Her figure is so charming,
Just like a great sack ob coals.
Ob none's so fair as Lucy,
Dat Lucy, Miss Lucy Long.

4.
When last she went a dancing
She trod de floor as light
Dat all de Niggers jump up
And run off in a fright.
Oh! sweet enchanting Lucy,
Dat Lucy, Miss Lucy Long.

5.
And when dat we are married,
As sure as she was born,
If she turn out a wixen,
I'll trade her away for corn,
And nebber again see Lucy,
Dat Lucy, Miss Lucy Long.

=============================
"Lucy Long" (1844)
Words and Music -- anon.

[Source: pages 140-141 from
"Minstrel Songs, Old and New" (1883)

1.
Oh! I jis come out afore you,
To sing a little song;
I plays it on de Banjo,
And dey calls it Lucy Long.
Oh!

CHORUS
take your time Miss Lucy,
take your time Miss Lucy Long;
Oh! take your time Miss Lucy
take your time Miss Lucy Long.

2.
Miss Lucy she is handsome,
And Miss Lucy she is tall;
To see her dance Cachucha,
Is death to Niggers all.
Oh!

(CHORUS)

3.
Oh! Miss Lucy's teeth is grinning
Just like an ear ob corn;
And her eyes dey look so winning!
Oh! would I'd ne'er been born.
Oh!

(CHORUS)

4.
I asked her for to marry,
Myself de toder day;
She said she'd rather tarry,
So I let her habe her way.
Pray

(CHORUS)

5.
If she makes a scolding wife,
As sure as she was born,
I'll tote her down to Georgia,
And trade her off for corn.
Then

(CHORUS)

Subject: RE: Lyr origin: Rock the Cradle Lucy
From: Stewie
Date: 24 Nov 06 - 08:38 PM

Richie,

There's not much to the Mainer version, at least on the recording that I have:

ROCK THAT CRADLE LUCY

Rock that cradle, Lucy
Rock it good and long
Rock that cradle, Lucy
Keep that baby warm

Rock that cradle, Lucy
Rock it good and old
Rock that cradle, Lucy
The baby's getting cold

Rock that cradle, Lucy
Don't let that baby cry
Rock that cradle, Lucy
The baby's born [bound] to die

Unfortunately, no recording details are given on the record sleeve.

Source: Transcription from 'Rural Rhythm presents The Legendary J.E. Mainer and His Mountaineers Old Time Mountain Music' Rural Rhythm LP RR-JE 185.

--Stewie.

Subject: RE: Lyr origin: Rock the Cradle Lucy
From: GUEST,Richie
Date: 24 Nov 06 - 10:11 PM

Thanks Stewie,

The lyrics aren't particularly interesting in general. Here's The Cofer Brothers version:

Lyr Add: Rock The Cradle Lucy- Cofer Brothers
The Cofer Brothers on Georgia Fiddle bands volume 2

Fiddle

Oh rock the cradle Lucy, rock the cradle long
Oh rock the cradle Lucy, keep that baby warm

Fiddle

Oh rock the cradle Lucy, don't you close your eyes
Oh rock the cradle Lucy, don't let that baby cry

Fiddle

Oh rock the cradle Lucy, rock the cradle long
Oh rock the cradle Lucy, keep that baby warm

Fiddle

Oh Lucy take a baby, she set him in the sun
A bumble bee lit on his head, made that nigger run

Fiddle

Subject: RE: Lyr origin: Rock the Cradle Lucy
From: Barry Finn
Date: 25 Nov 06 - 12:02 AM

I've had the same for the past 25 yrs, as Richie has it above. The only difference being the 3rd verse. I never heard anyone doing more that this & it such a great song.

Rock the cradle Lucy, rock the cradle bye
Rock the cradle Lucy don't let the baby cry.

Great fiddle song

Stan Hugill also has it as a halyard sea shanty.
If anyone's interested I'll post the 7 verses tomorrow (it's getting late). Without the refrain/chorus it sounds as if the shanty would fit the same as the fiddle tune above or at least the way I've know the tune. I can only remember it as shanty being sung once many yrs ago so I'm not sure if the tunes are alike.

Barry

Subject: RE: Lyr origin: Rock the Cradle Lucy
From: GUEST,Richie
Date: 25 Nov 06 - 12:14 AM

Barry,

I'd like a look at the Hugill lyrics and any info associated with them.

Thanks,

Richie

Subject: RE: Lyr origin: Rock the Cradle Lucy
From: Barry Finn
Date: 25 Nov 06 - 12:31 AM

In His "Shanties of the 7 Seas".
I'll get back to you tomorrow.

Barry

Subject: RE: Lyr origin: Rock the Cradle Lucy
From: Barry Finn
Date: 25 Nov 06 - 04:16 AM

Here you go Richie

Miss Lucy Long

Was ye niver on the Broomilaw, where the Yankee boys are all the go
Chorus:Timme Way-hay-hay-hay-hay, hay-hay-ah-ha, me Johnny boys ah-ha
             Why don't ye try to ring me Miss Lucy Long

Oh, as I walked out one morning fair, to view the wiew & take the air
Chorus:

Oh, twas there I met Miss Lucy fair, twas there we met I do declare

I raised me hat an said 'how do?' Sez she, 'I know what sailors are

You dirty sailor, ye stink o' tar, besides I know what sailors are

My friend's a mate in the Blackball Line, in his uniform & his peak-cap fine

I left her there upon he quay, that gal she was too smart for me.

From Hugill's "Shanties Of The Seven Seas" (p. 300-301)
"Another shanty with West Indian connections is Miss Lucy Long. The Broomielaw is in Glasgow - and Glasgow at one time had strong connections with the Jamaica Sugar & Rum Trade. This shanty was used at the capstan, & quite a rousing song it is. Terry & Sharp give versions, both similar to mine which I picked up in Trinidad in 1931. Miss Lcy Long is a girl often met with in Negro songs, eg.:

Oh, take yer time, Miss Lucy
Take yer time, Miss Lucy Long,
Oh, take yer time, Miss Lucy,
Take yer time, Miss Lucy Long.

Both Terry and myself give 'ring, Miss Lucy Long", a word which was sung sometimes, but Sharp spells it 'wring'- incorrectly I feel! But it doesn't really matter, because in both cases the word was used only to replace a much cruder one!"

Barry

Subject: RE: Lyr origin: Rock the Cradle Lucy
From: Peace
Date: 25 Nov 06 - 04:47 AM

Site of general interest about "Lucy Long".

Subject: RE: Lyr origin: Rock the Cradle Lucy
From: GUEST,Bob Coltman
Date: 25 Nov 06 - 09:31 AM

Hello Richie,

Tried a google on "The Wagon" as you suggested, but the term's too general. Couldn't come up with the song you referred to, even when I added "tell old bill" as a sweetener. I'm interested to see it, for as you know, that song is a real rarity, without close relatives so far as I've seen, and I'm afire to learn more.

Can you send me the link? [e-mail]

Thanks!

Bob

Subject: RE: Lyr origin: Rock the Cradle Lucy
From: GUEST,Richie
Date: 27 Nov 06 - 11:22 PM

Anyone have lyrics to:

"Miss Lucy Long" Phil Reeve and Earnest Moody 1928

or Praire Ramblers "Lucy Long"?

Richie

Subject: RE: Lyr origin: Rock the Cradle Lucy
From: GUEST,Pete Peterson
Date: 29 Nov 06 - 12:52 PM

Hi Richie,

I'm only from Eden NC by adoption; Charlie Poole is my main music hero and I play a banjo said to belong to him. (I've got a letter of provenance but have yet to see a picture of him playing it)

   I hear the Cofer Bros. singing "rock it Lucy Long" not "rock the cradle long" (just checked, and that's what I hear) YMMV as with other Cofer Bros. songs. I think the Cofer Bros. actually sung more clearly than a lot of other musicians of the time (like Poole!) and an example is in their "Hungry Hash House" where the lyric "If you catch to catch the breeze from their ham, bologna and cheese" was mangled by others like Ernest Stoneman into "Ambelonious cheese" which I have seen picked up by others.

Stewie-- is the Mainer "Rock the Cradle Lucy" the Cofer Bros. tune, the Skillet Lickers tune, or the one we know as "Rock the Cradle Joe"?? It's not in my very incomplete collection of Mainers.

Subject: Lyr Add: OH! ROCK DAT CRADLE, SUSIE (Marsh, Keefer
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 02 Dec 06 - 04:58 PM

Here's a song from The Library of Congress American Memory Collection:

OH! ROCK DAT CRADLE, SUSIE.
Words, James B. Marsh. Music, W. T. Keefer.
New York: Lieder, William J. A., 1883.

1. I love dat yella wife of mine.
Of all de gals, she takes de shine.
I really think her quite divine,
My honey and my joy.
I tells you suffen, boys, tonight,
And show you such a purty sight.
'Tis mammy's joy and dad's delight.
We's got a baby boy.

CHORUS: Oh! Rock dat cradle, Susie.
Rock dat cradle, Susie.
Rock dat cradle, Susie.
See you keep de chile from harm.
Oh! Rock dat cradle, Susie.
Rock dat cradle, Susie.
Rock dat cradle, Susie.
Mind you keep de baby warm.

2. I lub dat little baby dear.
His youthful voice is loud and clear.
He's got a mouth from ear to ear.
His eyes am mighty fine.
I think he am de smartest youth
That you can find in all de south.
He puts his fist right in his mouth,
Dat baby boy of mine.

3. To see him wink his little eye,
And jump, and crow, and laugh, and cry,
And wave his little hand bye-bye,
Dat chile am 'most divine;
And when he cries, I feel so bad;
And when he laughs, I'se mighty glad.
He's got a nose just like his dad,
Dat baby boy of mine.

Subject: RE: Lyr origin: Rock the Cradle Lucy
From: Richie
Date: 03 Dec 06 - 12:42 PM

Good find Jim,

The chorus seems closer to the stardard fiddle lyrics.

Richie