BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?

Subject: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: GUEST,beachcomber
Date: 25 Nov 06 - 04:04 PM

Is it me (my ageing body - thinning blood) or just my imagination? We seem to be having the wettest, coldest, most unhealthy Winter in all my 70odd years on this little "corner" of the planet.
My old (Converted from solid fuel some 15yrs ago) Rayburn cooker/water heater has cracked (like the Lady's mirror in that poem) from side to side along the front panel.
I am contemplating buying a new one that will also heat my radiators, however a local man has just set up in the wood pellet/chip boiler business and the relative set up costs are in the same bracket almost. Which would/have other 'catters go/gone for ?

Subject: RE: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 25 Nov 06 - 04:09 PM

I'd stick with an oil fired Rayburn which will cook your food and heat your house. I have one, but I only use it for cooking, wouldn't be without it though, the kitchen's always warm, and the baking abilities are second to none.
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 25 Nov 06 - 04:34 PM

From my experience with pellet burners, they're phenomenally good. No smoke, good control, high efficiency. And OPEC isn't apt to raise pellet prices,

Subject: RE: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: Bert
Date: 25 Nov 06 - 04:42 PM

I was gonna say oil until I read Dick's message. Now I'm not sure, he makes some good points.

Subject: RE: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: Ebbie
Date: 25 Nov 06 - 05:17 PM

In Juneau, Alaska, electricity is generated by water about 15 miles down the coastline. It is fairly reliable but now and again a snow avalanche will take out a section of poles or a bald eagle inadvertently touches two points and the electricity grid goes down. Usually it comes back within the hour but the potential for longer outages is there.

Most of the furnaces in Juneau are fired by oil - but sparked by electricity. When the power is out, most of us have cold houses.

In the back of my mind I keep a list of a number of friends that I know have fireplaces and a few that have flattop wood stoves. If I owned my home I would most certainly have a woodburning stove, whether by pellet or log.

Subject: RE: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: Big Mick
Date: 25 Nov 06 - 05:32 PM

My home in Michigan is heated solely by a Vermont Castings Defiant Encore wood burning stove. For the reasons that Ebbie described, I will never be without some form of woodburner again. In West Michigan, one can count on power outages from ice or from lightning, or accident, at least several times each winter. But I am never without heat. A very good friend uses the pellets, another burns corn. Both deliver a wonderful, and controlled, source of heat. I have always just split and stacked my own firewood, but advancing age and health issues are making that increasingly more difficult. I will probably install a boiler system on the remodel, but I will also keep the wood burner.

Subject: RE: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: Leadfingers
Date: 25 Nov 06 - 05:40 PM

The cabins at the Boston Getaway Episcopalian Camp last year were wood pellet stove heated and seemed to be very efficient . They didnt have any cooking facilities but DID keep the cabins warm !

Subject: RE: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Nov 06 - 11:21 PM

As your go through the darkest, coldest, bleakest winter months, keep muttering the mantra: "Global Warming, CO2, Global Warning, NOX2, Global Warming, Get Here Soon, Global Warming, you are three centuries too late for these frozen bones.

Subject: RE: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: Ebbie
Date: 25 Nov 06 - 11:43 PM

Global warming has little to do with day to day weather. This month has been the coldest, snowiest November since 1994. That year November brought us 71 inches of snow in that month alone. So far this year, it has brought us 45 inches- but we're not done yet. Whenever our weather warms up, it inevitably brings us snow. Next Wednesday we're supposed to reach a high of 28 (our highs have been in the teens this month and our lows just below zero) with snow showers forecast.

This is Alaska, granted, but it is in southeast Alaska. In Fairbanks, even in Anchorage, 700 and 600 air miles away respectively, Alaska weather is much more severe than what we get in Southeast. Our norms are 104 inches of snow per winter, our temperatures ranging from lows of 15 up to about 40. But that is in the dead of winter - hey, normally snow doesn't stay on the ground until mid-December - and some years it doesn't stick until January.

Global warming has little to do with day to day weather. But it has quite a lot to do with weird weather... In the meantime, it is cold.

Subject: RE: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 26 Nov 06 - 12:25 AM

Pellet stoves are unique among woodburners in that they control the heat output by metering the fuel, not the air. Their biggest drawbacks are a)availability of fuel and b)they won't work if electric power goes down. But them, neither will an oil burner.

Subject: RE: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: Cod Fiddler
Date: 26 Nov 06 - 05:25 AM

How can you say that Ebbie, when Alaska's glaciers are melting at an unprecedented rate? The extreme weather is probably a direct result of our activities and will not make up for high summer temperatures.
Use WOODPELLETS! They are a renewable source of fuel, which will not unleash carbon dioxide from fossil deposits. Thay can be made from local resources rather than being piped/shipped round the planet (not really a problem in Alaska), and, as Dick Greenhaus says, OPEC aren't going to send the price skyrocketing when the Middle East Implodes.

Read the Stern Report Here

It is a report produced for the UK government, detailing the costs of climate change if we acy now and the cost in the future if we don't. The scary thing is, if Britain switched off every single electrical appliance, China alone would compensate for it within just 2 years. As Americans have by far the largest ecological footprint per capita in the world, its about time you made an effort to change!

Rant over.

Subject: RE: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: Grab
Date: 26 Nov 06 - 05:44 AM

I've always thought it's wierd that things would be driven off gas or oil or whatever but use electricity to make it work. Maybe a UPS would be a good plan to provide some emergency juice for that?

Subject: RE: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: Cod Fiddler
Date: 26 Nov 06 - 05:57 AM

I've dug the figures out of the Stern Report.

The CO2 emissions per head (tonnes) for each country are as follows:

USA 20.4
EU 9.4
UK 9.6
Japan 9.8
China 3.0
India 11.7

WAKE UP! It's a disgrace.

Subject: RE: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: Sorcha
Date: 26 Nov 06 - 08:00 AM

Don't use pellets or corn if you have allergies. The dust from them can really cause problems.-

Subject: RE: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: GUEST,Jim Martin
Date: 28 Nov 06 - 11:22 PM

I've been looking at pellet stoves recently (as are quite a lot of people here in Ireland at the moment). Somebody made the comment the other day that he couldn't find any wood pellet burning RANGES which also heat water, I couldn't either. Does anyone know of any such animal being available? If not, there could be a huge potential market for someone here!

Subject: RE: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: EBarnacle
Date: 28 Nov 06 - 11:59 PM

My business partner heats his geodesic dome with a pellet heater. After going through about $1000 worth of pellets in the Poconos, he is moving back to Brooklyn for the winter.

Part of the problem is the dome itself, as its surface to volume ratio makes it very difficult to insulate efficiently.

The pellets take up a lot of volume relative to liquid fuels and give out relatively less energy.   

The pellets are not always available when needed, as there tends to be demand when the weather turns cold and production is not always up to demand.

Subject: RE: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: Bunnahabhain
Date: 29 Nov 06 - 05:48 AM

A wood stove to provide alot of the basic heating for a house is a very good idea. The old saying about it warming you several times over is true ( felling, splitting , carrying, burning). If age or health issues make this too much work, then the pellet stoves look to be an easier alternative. I've not used them though. Either way, you should have enough room to store a winters worth of fuel, or more for real wood, to give it time to dry properly. Anything else is asking for trouble.

For cooking, stick with oil. A new AGA or Rayburn, built for oil, will be more efficient than than the one it's replacing, and if you're used to a cast iron range cooker, you will really not like a winter without one. The oil ones I grew up with had an electrical regulator, so when the power goes out, it just sits at a medium-low setting, but stays on.

Subject: RE: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: GUEST,Cats
Date: 29 Nov 06 - 06:23 AM

I'm changing over my hot water and part of my central heating system after Christmas. My oil price has gone up by 200% in 2 years so I have to do something drastic. So, neither oil nor wood pellets. We are going solar with an electric back up, using my woodburners for heat in winter and oil if really needed.

Subject: RE: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: Bee
Date: 29 Nov 06 - 09:08 AM

We went looking at pellet stoves two years ago (we've always had a wood stove). Two things stopped us. They need electricity to run, and having gone 11 days without power after Hurricane Juan, that's a serious concern. The other reason was a stove store owner, who very honestly told us that the last two he had in inventory were the last they'd sell. He said too many of them did not work well, constantly needed servicing, were difficult for an owner to repair, and sometimes were a fire hazard as a result. He said if you lucked out and got a good one, they did heat very well.

Subject: RE: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: EBarnacle
Date: 29 Nov 06 - 12:45 PM

On the other hand, a friend up in Maine has a system that combines wood and gas to heat his house. A load of wood in the stove box lasts 24 hours and, should he so choose, they can just let the gas heater do the work.

As far as a water heater goes, even with a solar water heating system, get a demand hot water heater. That way, even in the middle of the night, you can get a hot shower.

Remember that the purpose of conveniences is to meet your needs, not to have you adapt to the limitations of the system.

Subject: RE: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: Bert
Date: 29 Nov 06 - 01:58 PM

I'm thinking of installing a solar system in Rachael's home.

Subject: RE: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 29 Nov 06 - 07:18 PM

I misread this and thought 'owl pellets'..... I think I need sleep.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: GUEST,allan s
Date: 30 Nov 06 - 10:50 AM

Wood is the way to go if the elect. goes down neither pellet or oil will work and you always can get wood. Can you always get pellets? however wood is dirty. Bringing wood in and ashes out. If your oil furnice is working ok get a wood stove and use it to suplament the oil burner. it will lower your oil cost and if it gets very cold light the wood stove as a suplament. If you are not going to use the oil burner what will it cost to remove it? remove the hot water pipeing or you going to leave it? Will it freeze and burst? How will you get hot water for showers, dishes? Hot water in the summer? Think out all the problems before you make up your mind. Before I added the woodstove I was burning 1200 gal of oil. per year. adding the wood stove 900 gal per year new oil furnice w/ wood burner 600 gal.   dont forget w/ oil you burn aprox 1 gal per day to make domestic hot water showers, dishes,    DO THE MATH FIRST

Subject: RE: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 30 Nov 06 - 04:06 PM

About four years ago, we paid $1,500 for a fireplace insert with a Country brand name, which was supposed to be very efficient. It heats our California Sierra Foothills house quite well on about 1-1/2 cords per season. We had been paying $200 a cord, but it's up to about $400 a cord for hardwood here this year. I'm glad we bought this year's wood in the Spring.
It sure is nice to have a window that allows us to watch our heat source as it keeps us warm. Our previous insert had solid metal doors, and it used a lot of wood and didn't keep us warm.
Sometimes, I'd like to have a thermostat to turn on, instead of having to work to warm up the house in the morning - but it's nice to have a woodburning stove during power outages, and when the electric bill comes.
-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: GUEST,beachcomber
Date: 30 Nov 06 - 04:14 PM

Brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr !
Having read the posting from Ebbie et al, I feel like a regular "auld sissy" for complaining about cold. We havn't had as much as a proper frost for several years. But, what we do get (ad nauseam, it seems, this year) is damp , windy North Westerlies and the wind chill factor does make it feel colder.
I think I'll go for the Stanley Cooker/Heater -Oil fired and I have a deal that gets me a "Free" Wood (Log) burning stove also.
Perhaps, in time, it will be possible to have an Oil burner converted to Wood burning-Pellet or Log, Let's hope so.
Many thanks for the excellent comments and suggestions.

Subject: RE: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 01 Dec 06 - 08:18 AM

An Aussie has invented a new solar cell setup - uses lenses and auto directing motors - about 300 watt out of 18 inches dia bowl. Was mentioned on last Years ABC Inventors TV Show - Oz - can be scaled up to about 600 watt before the bowl rigidity becomes a problem - survives wind and hail apparently. At least twice as efficient as a standard solar cell setup.

Subject: RE: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 01 Dec 06 - 08:33 PM

Bert, will that be 8 planets, or 9?

Subject: RE: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: GUEST,allan .s
Date: 02 Dec 06 - 03:03 PM

Hi Beachcomber Better check w/ your furnace man to see if your oil furnace csn be convreted to burn wood or pellets. I dont think so they have a fire box on the botton to ignite the oil that is sprayed in through a nozle 1. you would need a grate fro the wood. 2 where would you have the draft. 3. Is it a "Boiler" this is what they are called if you are making steam.for steam radiators. 4. or a furnace if you are heating water for hot water baseboard heating. I dont see how you could get pellets to feed. Get some advice from a furnace repair man.

Subject: RE: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: GUEST,beachcomber
Date: 02 Dec 06 - 05:24 PM

allan s. I am to have a visit from just such a Person (He comes complete with a briefcase nowadays) He is to assess our old oil fired cooker/water heater and , I know, has fitted various conversion kits, over the years, to many solid fuel types.
Thanks for advice though.

Subject: RE: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: akenaton
Date: 02 Dec 06 - 05:49 PM

I supply and install Wood burning and multi fuel stoves and cookers.

The biggest problem now is getting a continuous supply of hardwood...softwood is not so efficient.
Round this area logs are sold in small net bags for £5
This can work out just as expensive as oil.

Cutting and storing timber by hand can be very time consuming and is not a good idea for older people. Timber should be stacked to dry for at least 12 mths ... so you need lots of space.

Also, most wood burning appliances require an insulated flue liner to stop the formation of condensation inside the chimney.
However there's nothing like a wood fire to warm your cockles!!


Timber chips,fed into the stove are easier but quite expensive.

Subject: RE: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 02 Dec 06 - 07:57 PM

You also need to be selective of the type of wood you burn, some types can have unfortunate side effects, and I'm not just talking about 'green' wood, which has lots of moisture (this dilutes the effectiveness of getting heat out of the fire!).

Subject: RE: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Dec 06 - 08:21 AM

refresh

Subject: RE: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: Rapparee
Date: 10 Dec 06 - 10:36 AM

I've been watching this thread and wondering about oil pellets.

Ahem.

We have two woodburning fireplaces, one upstairs and one in the basement family room. Both have inserts; the upstairs one is crap and the downstairs one is (according to the chimneysweep) a top o' the line model. Neither my wife nor I would be without a woodburner of some sort. Too much common experience with electricity failing.

And we have two electric stoves (inherited), an electric furnace, and a forced-air gas furnace. There is a gas hotwater heater and an electric one. If the electricity went off we MIGHT have hot water from the gas heater, but the pilot light is lit by electricity!

Too MUCH electricity, too much dependence.

Wood pellets are fairly easy to obtain here, but I wouldn't want to depend upon them (or anything) as my sole source.

Subject: RE: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Dec 06 - 10:03 AM

refresh

Subject: RE: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 18 Dec 06 - 12:26 AM

At this time of the year...

Subject: RE: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: John J
Date: 18 Dec 06 - 10:17 AM

I have a small woodburner in my living room. The house has gas-fired central heating, consequently the radiators in the living room are turned off or very low most of the time. Unfortunately the advice I received fo buy this particular stove wasn't good as it's too small for the room. However I wouldn't be with a woodburner again, it generates genuine warmth, is the centre of attention in the room, and has MUCH better programmes on than the telly!

As has been mentioned previously, you also get quite warm chopping the wood. I find that I allocate a couple of weekends a year to driving around with trailer and chainsaw in tow looking for 'free' fuel.

Woodburners are great fun and bring a house to life.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: GUEST,Jim Martin
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 12:03 AM

Have tried burning wood briquettes recently in my stove. Are very clean with very little ash but wouldn't rely on them to keep fire in for long periods so still burning smokeless coal/anthracite mix at €15 a bag (wood briquettes were €4.20 for a bale of 15). Bag of coal lasts me 3 days, bale of briquettes 9 hours, so costing twice as much!

Subject: RE: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: John J
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 04:13 AM

I've seen adverts for a piece of kit that compresses soggy newspapers into briquettes which are then left to dry (in the summer!) before burning in the winter.

Has anyone had any experience of these?

John

Subject: RE: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: GUEST,allan s.
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 09:51 AM

A few years ago I read of a process whew one soaked news papers then rolled them around a central wooden stick. The stick was removed and the papers left to dry when dry the paper roll could be burned like a log, has any one had any experience with this

Subject: RE: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 04:29 PM

Newspaper "log" rollers are at least 50 years old. They work--sorta. You need a lot of newspaper to get a reasonable amount of heat. I found that, if you can't recycle the paper for some reason, they're bet considered as waste paper disposal, not heating.

Subject: RE: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: Gervase
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 05:55 PM

The pellet stoves are hugely different from even the most modern woodburner.
They have a sealed combustion chamber into which the pellets are fed automatically from a large hopper. And I do mean large - if you imagine your average 1000-litre oil tank, quadruple that size for the same amount of wood-pellet energy.
The are extremely efficient and are ideal as the basis for a domestic heating system. They don't have the aesthetic appeal of a traditional woodburner or an Aga, however.
That said, pellet stoves are far greener and, if you have plenty of room for the hopper and good access to the fuel, they are far better than oil, LPG, coal or traditional wood.

Subject: RE: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: GUEST,Jim Martin
Date: 25 Dec 06 - 06:51 AM

refresh

Subject: RE: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Dec 06 - 11:44 AM

refresh

Subject: RE: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: Slag
Date: 29 Dec 06 - 06:00 PM

I've been ignoring this thread too long. I don't know if decisions have been made yet but please consider the following.

For many years I heated with just a fireplace (and electric area heaters on occasion). My folks used pellet stoves (long house). I finally went to a kerosene heater. It does a much better job of heating my entire house within just a few minutes of coming on. The fireplace could never do as well. No more cutting, splitting, carrying wood. No more dirt, bark or going out into the cold and stormy nights. As you get older you can really appreciate that. If the power goes out for any length of time I still have the fireplace and a clutch of wood.

I just lost my father recently and my 81 year old mother is alone with the pellet stove, 50, 60 pound bags, lighters cleaning utensils and all the falderal. Needless to say, it is I who fills the hopper everyday. If she continues to live alone I'm going to sell her on the oil burner.

Subject: RE: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: GUEST,Good point, 'Slag'.
Date: 30 Dec 06 - 08:00 AM

Subject: RE: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: GUEST,Jim Martin
Date: 30 Dec 06 - 08:14 AM

Good point, 'Slag'.

Does anyone know if the price of wood pellets is increasing with the increasing demand (here in ireland anyway)?

I saw some price comparisons recently:

      €0.03 per Kwh = Wood Pellet
      €0.04 "   " = LPG
      €0.05 "   " = Oil

The question is whether the 1 - 2 cent per Kwh saving with wood pellet is worth it bearing in mind the extra work involved with ash disposal and, I believe, extra maintenance costs involved with augers etc?

Subject: RE: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: Cap't Bob
Date: 30 Dec 06 - 11:57 PM

I have been heating with wood for the past 45 years. We do have a lp gas furnace that we use in the spring and fall when it's too warm for the wood heater. This winter has been unusually warm making it necessary to opening a window or two when the house overheats.
        It is possible in northern Michigan to get a permit to cut free firewood (dead or downed trees) from either state or federal forests. Over the years the wood that is easy to gather tends to be more difficult to find. Lately I've been buying wood from a local logger for $60 a pulp cord (4'x4'x8') for oak. A load consists of 12 cord which gives us enough firewood for two years. $350 a year for heat this far north isn't all that bad.
        I always cut and split wood a year ahead to aid in the drying process. This makes it a lot more enjoyable when I don't have to worry about wood for the coming winter. The wood I get has to be cut and some split into firewood size pieces. It's actually rather enjoyable now that I have a motor driven splitter. The added benefit is getting some exercise during the process.
        Cap't Bob

Subject: RE: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: GUEST,Allan S.
Date: 31 Dec 06 - 11:39 AM

Does anyone have any experience with a MANTIS electric wood splitter
I have been burning w/ wood past 30 plus years and am gettng a bit too old to do the splitting by hand I only need to split 1 or 2 full cords a year 4x4x8 on the outside so I dont need a heavy duty splitter

Subject: RE: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: Metchosin
Date: 31 Dec 06 - 12:57 PM

Don't know if the pellets will ever make it to the UK, but there are plans afoot to turn vast amounts of the massive tree kill by the mountain pine beetle into pellets here in British Columbia.

The supply could prove limitless as the devastation has crossed the border into northern Alberta and is expected to spread right the way across Canada.

Don't need pellets myself, we have enough downed trees on our property right now, as a result of recent ice storms, heavy snow and hurricane force winds, to keep us warm for the next 10 years. Some 80 to 100 year old Douglas fir snapped off at the base like matchsticks. Quite a mess and as with Allan S., splitting all of it is going to be a problem.

Subject: RE: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: GUEST,beachcomber
Date: 03 Jan 07 - 03:38 PM

In my local newspaper to-day I read an advert for a "new" (?) wood burning stove.
It is under the brand name "Fonta" (There is an accent over the o which , alas, I am unable to reproduce - this would make the pronounciation of that name sound like "Foanta".
This is described as their new super-efficient central heating boiler which can use LOGS and/or SCRAP WOOD the price, they state starts at 2800 Euro.
Meantime I have gone and done a "deal" with another firm for an oil-fired COOKER/BOILER/DOMESTIC WATER HEATER for 6500Euro and, they will throw in "free" a wood-burning stove.
How have I done ? (I can still withdraw from the "deal" ) ??