BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?

Subject: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: GUEST,beachcomber
Date: 25 Nov 06 - 04:04 PM

Is it me (my ageing body - thinning blood) or just my imagination? We seem to be having the wettest, coldest, most unhealthy Winter in all my 70odd years on this little "corner" of the planet.
My old (Converted from solid fuel some 15yrs ago) Rayburn cooker/water heater has cracked (like the Lady's mirror in that poem) from side to side along the front panel.
I am contemplating buying a new one that will also heat my radiators, however a local man has just set up in the wood pellet/chip boiler business and the relative set up costs are in the same bracket almost. Which would/have other 'catters go/gone for ?

Subject: RE: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 25 Nov 06 - 04:09 PM

I'd stick with an oil fired Rayburn which will cook your food and heat your house. I have one, but I only use it for cooking, wouldn't be without it though, the kitchen's always warm, and the baking abilities are second to none.
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 25 Nov 06 - 04:34 PM

From my experience with pellet burners, they're phenomenally good. No smoke, good control, high efficiency. And OPEC isn't apt to raise pellet prices,

Subject: RE: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: Bert
Date: 25 Nov 06 - 04:42 PM

I was gonna say oil until I read Dick's message. Now I'm not sure, he makes some good points.

Subject: RE: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: Ebbie
Date: 25 Nov 06 - 05:17 PM

In Juneau, Alaska, electricity is generated by water about 15 miles down the coastline. It is fairly reliable but now and again a snow avalanche will take out a section of poles or a bald eagle inadvertently touches two points and the electricity grid goes down. Usually it comes back within the hour but the potential for longer outages is there.

Most of the furnaces in Juneau are fired by oil - but sparked by electricity. When the power is out, most of us have cold houses.

In the back of my mind I keep a list of a number of friends that I know have fireplaces and a few that have flattop wood stoves. If I owned my home I would most certainly have a woodburning stove, whether by pellet or log.

Subject: RE: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: Big Mick
Date: 25 Nov 06 - 05:32 PM

My home in Michigan is heated solely by a Vermont Castings Defiant Encore wood burning stove. For the reasons that Ebbie described, I will never be without some form of woodburner again. In West Michigan, one can count on power outages from ice or from lightning, or accident, at least several times each winter. But I am never without heat. A very good friend uses the pellets, another burns corn. Both deliver a wonderful, and controlled, source of heat. I have always just split and stacked my own firewood, but advancing age and health issues are making that increasingly more difficult. I will probably install a boiler system on the remodel, but I will also keep the wood burner.

Subject: RE: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: Leadfingers
Date: 25 Nov 06 - 05:40 PM

The cabins at the Boston Getaway Episcopalian Camp last year were wood pellet stove heated and seemed to be very efficient . They didnt have any cooking facilities but DID keep the cabins warm !

Subject: RE: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Nov 06 - 11:21 PM

As your go through the darkest, coldest, bleakest winter months, keep muttering the mantra: "Global Warming, CO2, Global Warning, NOX2, Global Warming, Get Here Soon, Global Warming, you are three centuries too late for these frozen bones.

Subject: RE: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: Ebbie
Date: 25 Nov 06 - 11:43 PM

Global warming has little to do with day to day weather. This month has been the coldest, snowiest November since 1994. That year November brought us 71 inches of snow in that month alone. So far this year, it has brought us 45 inches- but we're not done yet. Whenever our weather warms up, it inevitably brings us snow. Next Wednesday we're supposed to reach a high of 28 (our highs have been in the teens this month and our lows just below zero) with snow showers forecast.

This is Alaska, granted, but it is in southeast Alaska. In Fairbanks, even in Anchorage, 700 and 600 air miles away respectively, Alaska weather is much more severe than what we get in Southeast. Our norms are 104 inches of snow per winter, our temperatures ranging from lows of 15 up to about 40. But that is in the dead of winter - hey, normally snow doesn't stay on the ground until mid-December - and some years it doesn't stick until January.

Global warming has little to do with day to day weather. But it has quite a lot to do with weird weather... In the meantime, it is cold.

Subject: RE: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 26 Nov 06 - 12:25 AM

Pellet stoves are unique among woodburners in that they control the heat output by metering the fuel, not the air. Their biggest drawbacks are a)availability of fuel and b)they won't work if electric power goes down. But them, neither will an oil burner.

Subject: RE: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: Cod Fiddler
Date: 26 Nov 06 - 05:25 AM

How can you say that Ebbie, when Alaska's glaciers are melting at an unprecedented rate? The extreme weather is probably a direct result of our activities and will not make up for high summer temperatures.
Use WOODPELLETS! They are a renewable source of fuel, which will not unleash carbon dioxide from fossil deposits. Thay can be made from local resources rather than being piped/shipped round the planet (not really a problem in Alaska), and, as Dick Greenhaus says, OPEC aren't going to send the price skyrocketing when the Middle East Implodes.

Read the Stern Report Here

It is a report produced for the UK government, detailing the costs of climate change if we acy now and the cost in the future if we don't. The scary thing is, if Britain switched off every single electrical appliance, China alone would compensate for it within just 2 years. As Americans have by far the largest ecological footprint per capita in the world, its about time you made an effort to change!

Rant over.

Subject: RE: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: Grab
Date: 26 Nov 06 - 05:44 AM

I've always thought it's wierd that things would be driven off gas or oil or whatever but use electricity to make it work. Maybe a UPS would be a good plan to provide some emergency juice for that?

Subject: RE: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: Cod Fiddler
Date: 26 Nov 06 - 05:57 AM

I've dug the figures out of the Stern Report.

The CO2 emissions per head (tonnes) for each country are as follows:

USA 20.4
EU 9.4
UK 9.6
Japan 9.8
China 3.0
India 11.7

WAKE UP! It's a disgrace.

Subject: RE: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: Sorcha
Date: 26 Nov 06 - 08:00 AM

Don't use pellets or corn if you have allergies. The dust from them can really cause problems.-

Subject: RE: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: GUEST,Jim Martin
Date: 28 Nov 06 - 11:22 PM

I've been looking at pellet stoves recently (as are quite a lot of people here in Ireland at the moment). Somebody made the comment the other day that he couldn't find any wood pellet burning RANGES which also heat water, I couldn't either. Does anyone know of any such animal being available? If not, there could be a huge potential market for someone here!

Subject: RE: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: EBarnacle
Date: 28 Nov 06 - 11:59 PM

My business partner heats his geodesic dome with a pellet heater. After going through about $1000 worth of pellets in the Poconos, he is moving back to Brooklyn for the winter.

Part of the problem is the dome itself, as its surface to volume ratio makes it very difficult to insulate efficiently.

The pellets take up a lot of volume relative to liquid fuels and give out relatively less energy.   

The pellets are not always available when needed, as there tends to be demand when the weather turns cold and production is not always up to demand.

Subject: RE: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: Bunnahabhain
Date: 29 Nov 06 - 05:48 AM

A wood stove to provide alot of the basic heating for a house is a very good idea. The old saying about it warming you several times over is true ( felling, splitting , carrying, burning). If age or health issues make this too much work, then the pellet stoves look to be an easier alternative. I've not used them though. Either way, you should have enough room to store a winters worth of fuel, or more for real wood, to give it time to dry properly. Anything else is asking for trouble.

For cooking, stick with oil. A new AGA or Rayburn, built for oil, will be more efficient than than the one it's replacing, and if you're used to a cast iron range cooker, you will really not like a winter without one. The oil ones I grew up with had an electrical regulator, so when the power goes out, it just sits at a medium-low setting, but stays on.

Subject: RE: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: GUEST,Cats
Date: 29 Nov 06 - 06:23 AM

I'm changing over my hot water and part of my central heating system after Christmas. My oil price has gone up by 200% in 2 years so I have to do something drastic. So, neither oil nor wood pellets. We are going solar with an electric back up, using my woodburners for heat in winter and oil if really needed.

Subject: RE: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: Bee
Date: 29 Nov 06 - 09:08 AM

We went looking at pellet stoves two years ago (we've always had a wood stove). Two things stopped us. They need electricity to run, and having gone 11 days without power after Hurricane Juan, that's a serious concern. The other reason was a stove store owner, who very honestly told us that the last two he had in inventory were the last they'd sell. He said too many of them did not work well, constantly needed servicing, were difficult for an owner to repair, and sometimes were a fire hazard as a result. He said if you lucked out and got a good one, they did heat very well.

Subject: RE: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: EBarnacle
Date: 29 Nov 06 - 12:45 PM

On the other hand, a friend up in Maine has a system that combines wood and gas to heat his house. A load of wood in the stove box lasts 24 hours and, should he so choose, they can just let the gas heater do the work.

As far as a water heater goes, even with a solar water heating system, get a demand hot water heater. That way, even in the middle of the night, you can get a hot shower.

Remember that the purpose of conveniences is to meet your needs, not to have you adapt to the limitations of the system.

Subject: RE: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: Bert
Date: 29 Nov 06 - 01:58 PM

I'm thinking of installing a solar system in Rachael's home.

Subject: RE: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 29 Nov 06 - 07:18 PM

I misread this and thought 'owl pellets'..... I think I need sleep.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: GUEST,allan s
Date: 30 Nov 06 - 10:50 AM

Wood is the way to go if the elect. goes down neither pellet or oil will work and you always can get wood. Can you always get pellets? however wood is dirty. Bringing wood in and ashes out. If your oil furnice is working ok get a wood stove and use it to suplament the oil burner. it will lower your oil cost and if it gets very cold light the wood stove as a suplament. If you are not going to use the oil burner what will it cost to remove it? remove the hot water pipeing or you going to leave it? Will it freeze and burst? How will you get hot water for showers, dishes? Hot water in the summer? Think out all the problems before you make up your mind. Before I added the woodstove I was burning 1200 gal of oil. per year. adding the wood stove 900 gal per year new oil furnice w/ wood burner 600 gal.   dont forget w/ oil you burn aprox 1 gal per day to make domestic hot water showers, dishes,    DO THE MATH FIRST

Subject: RE: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 30 Nov 06 - 04:06 PM

About four years ago, we paid $1,500 for a fireplace insert with a Country brand name, which was supposed to be very efficient. It heats our California Sierra Foothills house quite well on about 1-1/2 cords per season. We had been paying $200 a cord, but it's up to about $400 a cord for hardwood here this year. I'm glad we bought this year's wood in the Spring.
It sure is nice to have a window that allows us to watch our heat source as it keeps us warm. Our previous insert had solid metal doors, and it used a lot of wood and didn't keep us warm.
Sometimes, I'd like to have a thermostat to turn on, instead of having to work to warm up the house in the morning - but it's nice to have a woodburning stove during power outages, and when the electric bill comes.
-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: GUEST,beachcomber
Date: 30 Nov 06 - 04:14 PM

Brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr !
Having read the posting from Ebbie et al, I feel like a regular "auld sissy" for complaining about cold. We havn't had as much as a proper frost for several years. But, what we do get (ad nauseam, it seems, this year) is damp , windy North Westerlies and the wind chill factor does make it feel colder.
I think I'll go for the Stanley Cooker/Heater -Oil fired and I have a deal that gets me a "Free" Wood (Log) burning stove also.
Perhaps, in time, it will be possible to have an Oil burner converted to Wood burning-Pellet or Log, Let's hope so.
Many thanks for the excellent comments and suggestions.

Subject: RE: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 01 Dec 06 - 08:18 AM

An Aussie has invented a new solar cell setup - uses lenses and auto directing motors - about 300 watt out of 18 inches dia bowl. Was mentioned on last Years ABC Inventors TV Show - Oz - can be scaled up to about 600 watt before the bowl rigidity becomes a problem - survives wind and hail apparently. At least twice as efficient as a standard solar cell setup.

Subject: RE: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 01 Dec 06 - 08:33 PM

Bert, will that be 8 planets, or 9?

Subject: RE: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: GUEST,allan .s
Date: 02 Dec 06 - 03:03 PM

Hi Beachcomber Better check w/ your furnace man to see if your oil furnace csn be convreted to burn wood or pellets. I dont think so they have a fire box on the botton to ignite the oil that is sprayed in through a nozle 1. you would need a grate fro the wood. 2 where would you have the draft. 3. Is it a "Boiler" this is what they are called if you are making steam.for steam radiators. 4. or a furnace if you are heating water for hot water baseboard heating. I dont see how you could get pellets to feed. Get some advice from a furnace repair man.

Subject: RE: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: GUEST,beachcomber
Date: 02 Dec 06 - 05:24 PM

allan s. I am to have a visit from just such a Person (He comes complete with a briefcase nowadays) He is to assess our old oil fired cooker/water heater and , I know, has fitted various conversion kits, over the years, to many solid fuel types.
Thanks for advice though.

Subject: RE: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: akenaton
Date: 02 Dec 06 - 05:49 PM

I supply and install Wood burning and multi fuel stoves and cookers.

The biggest problem now is getting a continuous supply of hardwood...softwood is not so efficient.
Round this area logs are sold in small net bags for £5
This can work out just as expensive as oil.

Cutting and storing timber by hand can be very time consuming and is not a good idea for older people. Timber should be stacked to dry for at least 12 mths ... so you need lots of space.

Also, most wood burning appliances require an insulated flue liner to stop the formation of condensation inside the chimney.
However there's nothing like a wood fire to warm your cockles!!


Timber chips,fed into the stove are easier but quite expensive.

Subject: RE: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 02 Dec 06 - 07:57 PM

You also need to be selective of the type of wood you burn, some types can have unfortunate side effects, and I'm not just talking about 'green' wood, which has lots of moisture (this dilutes the effectiveness of getting heat out of the fire!).

Subject: RE: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Dec 06 - 08:21 AM

refresh

Subject: RE: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: Rapparee
Date: 10 Dec 06 - 10:36 AM

I've been watching this thread and wondering about oil pellets.

Ahem.

We have two woodburning fireplaces, one upstairs and one in the basement family room. Both have inserts; the upstairs one is crap and the downstairs one is (according to the chimneysweep) a top o' the line model. Neither my wife nor I would be without a woodburner of some sort. Too much common experience with electricity failing.

And we have two electric stoves (inherited), an electric furnace, and a forced-air gas furnace. There is a gas hotwater heater and an electric one. If the electricity went off we MIGHT have hot water from the gas heater, but the pilot light is lit by electricity!

Too MUCH electricity, too much dependence.

Wood pellets are fairly easy to obtain here, but I wouldn't want to depend upon them (or anything) as my sole source.

Subject: RE: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Dec 06 - 10:03 AM

refresh

Subject: RE: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 18 Dec 06 - 12:26 AM

At this time of the year...

Subject: RE: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: John J
Date: 18 Dec 06 - 10:17 AM

I have a small woodburner in my living room. The house has gas-fired central heating, consequently the radiators in the living room are turned off or very low most of the time. Unfortunately the advice I received fo buy this particular stove wasn't good as it's too small for the room. However I wouldn't be with a woodburner again, it generates genuine warmth, is the centre of attention in the room, and has MUCH better programmes on than the telly!

As has been mentioned previously, you also get quite warm chopping the wood. I find that I allocate a couple of weekends a year to driving around with trailer and chainsaw in tow looking for 'free' fuel.

Woodburners are great fun and bring a house to life.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: GUEST,Jim Martin
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 12:03 AM

Have tried burning wood briquettes recently in my stove. Are very clean with very little ash but wouldn't rely on them to keep fire in for long periods so still burning smokeless coal/anthracite mix at €15 a bag (wood briquettes were €4.20 for a bale of 15). Bag of coal lasts me 3 days, bale of briquettes 9 hours, so costing twice as much!

Subject: RE: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: John J
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 04:13 AM

I've seen adverts for a piece of kit that compresses soggy newspapers into briquettes which are then left to dry (in the summer!) before burning in the winter.

Has anyone had any experience of these?

John

Subject: RE: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: GUEST,allan s.
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 09:51 AM

A few years ago I read of a process whew one soaked news papers then rolled them around a central wooden stick. The stick was removed and the papers left to dry when dry the paper roll could be burned like a log, has any one had any experience with this

Subject: RE: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 04:29 PM

Newspaper "log" rollers are at least 50 years old. They work--sorta. You need a lot of newspaper to get a reasonable amount of heat. I found that, if you can't recycle the paper for some reason, they're bet considered as waste paper disposal, not heating.

Subject: RE: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: Gervase
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 05:55 PM

The pellet stoves are hugely different from even the most modern woodburner.
They have a sealed combustion chamber into which the pellets are fed automatically from a large hopper. And I do mean large - if you imagine your average 1000-litre oil tank, quadruple that size for the same amount of wood-pellet energy.
The are extremely efficient and are ideal as the basis for a domestic heating system. They don't have the aesthetic appeal of a traditional woodburner or an Aga, however.
That said, pellet stoves are far greener and, if you have plenty of room for the hopper and good access to the fuel, they are far better than oil, LPG, coal or traditional wood.

Subject: RE: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: GUEST,Jim Martin
Date: 25 Dec 06 - 06:51 AM

refresh

Subject: RE: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Dec 06 - 11:44 AM

refresh

Subject: RE: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: Slag
Date: 29 Dec 06 - 06:00 PM

I've been ignoring this thread too long. I don't know if decisions have been made yet but please consider the following.

For many years I heated with just a fireplace (and electric area heaters on occasion). My folks used pellet stoves (long house). I finally went to a kerosene heater. It does a much better job of heating my entire house within just a few minutes of coming on. The fireplace could never do as well. No more cutting, splitting, carrying wood. No more dirt, bark or going out into the cold and stormy nights. As you get older you can really appreciate that. If the power goes out for any length of time I still have the fireplace and a clutch of wood.

I just lost my father recently and my 81 year old mother is alone with the pellet stove, 50, 60 pound bags, lighters cleaning utensils and all the falderal. Needless to say, it is I who fills the hopper everyday. If she continues to live alone I'm going to sell her on the oil burner.

Subject: RE: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: GUEST,Good point, 'Slag'.
Date: 30 Dec 06 - 08:00 AM

Subject: RE: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: GUEST,Jim Martin
Date: 30 Dec 06 - 08:14 AM

Good point, 'Slag'.

Does anyone know if the price of wood pellets is increasing with the increasing demand (here in ireland anyway)?

I saw some price comparisons recently:

      €0.03 per Kwh = Wood Pellet
      €0.04 "   " = LPG
      €0.05 "   " = Oil

The question is whether the 1 - 2 cent per Kwh saving with wood pellet is worth it bearing in mind the extra work involved with ash disposal and, I believe, extra maintenance costs involved with augers etc?

Subject: RE: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: Cap't Bob
Date: 30 Dec 06 - 11:57 PM

I have been heating with wood for the past 45 years. We do have a lp gas furnace that we use in the spring and fall when it's too warm for the wood heater. This winter has been unusually warm making it necessary to opening a window or two when the house overheats.
        It is possible in northern Michigan to get a permit to cut free firewood (dead or downed trees) from either state or federal forests. Over the years the wood that is easy to gather tends to be more difficult to find. Lately I've been buying wood from a local logger for $60 a pulp cord (4'x4'x8') for oak. A load consists of 12 cord which gives us enough firewood for two years. $350 a year for heat this far north isn't all that bad.
        I always cut and split wood a year ahead to aid in the drying process. This makes it a lot more enjoyable when I don't have to worry about wood for the coming winter. The wood I get has to be cut and some split into firewood size pieces. It's actually rather enjoyable now that I have a motor driven splitter. The added benefit is getting some exercise during the process.
        Cap't Bob

Subject: RE: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: GUEST,Allan S.
Date: 31 Dec 06 - 11:39 AM

Does anyone have any experience with a MANTIS electric wood splitter
I have been burning w/ wood past 30 plus years and am gettng a bit too old to do the splitting by hand I only need to split 1 or 2 full cords a year 4x4x8 on the outside so I dont need a heavy duty splitter

Subject: RE: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: Metchosin
Date: 31 Dec 06 - 12:57 PM

Don't know if the pellets will ever make it to the UK, but there are plans afoot to turn vast amounts of the massive tree kill by the mountain pine beetle into pellets here in British Columbia.

The supply could prove limitless as the devastation has crossed the border into northern Alberta and is expected to spread right the way across Canada.

Don't need pellets myself, we have enough downed trees on our property right now, as a result of recent ice storms, heavy snow and hurricane force winds, to keep us warm for the next 10 years. Some 80 to 100 year old Douglas fir snapped off at the base like matchsticks. Quite a mess and as with Allan S., splitting all of it is going to be a problem.

Subject: RE: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: GUEST,beachcomber
Date: 03 Jan 07 - 03:38 PM

In my local newspaper to-day I read an advert for a "new" (?) wood burning stove.
It is under the brand name "Fonta" (There is an accent over the o which , alas, I am unable to reproduce - this would make the pronounciation of that name sound like "Foanta".
This is described as their new super-efficient central heating boiler which can use LOGS and/or SCRAP WOOD the price, they state starts at 2800 Euro.
Meantime I have gone and done a "deal" with another firm for an oil-fired COOKER/BOILER/DOMESTIC WATER HEATER for 6500Euro and, they will throw in "free" a wood-burning stove.
How have I done ? (I can still withdraw from the "deal" ) ??

Subject: RE: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: Ian
Date: 04 Jan 07 - 01:05 PM

The installation of wood (pellet/chip)boilers for central heating and DHW is gathering pace. Worcester county hall have one and I recently visited a small school in Buckinghamshire and a commercial plant nursery in Slough that had them.
A government agency "Thames Valley Energy" one of six covering the UK arranged the tie up with pellet / chip suppliers and the sites they also assisted in obtaining funding.

Wood fired boilers now come in all sizes small domestic to industrial.

If however you wish to consider oil look at waste oil burners which use waste car engine oil. You can almost be paid by the garage to take it away at the moment.

Subject: RE: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: GUEST,beachcomber
Date: 04 Jan 07 - 03:42 PM

Ian,

I have not (yet, anyway) come across a Waste Oil Burner during my travels/shopping. Do you know the Brand Name of any?
I went to see one of those "Fonta" Boilers today. ( See my earlier posting)It can burn anything almost (including coal, so no Government Grant to offset cost)
It certainly looks and seems to operate, very well. The people who have it installed told me that they need to fuel it up twice a day for continuous running. They burn Logs and/ or Wood Scraps/Offcuts.
Kiln dried wood is particularly suitable as it burns completely as heat for the water boiler. Wet timber can be burned but is , consequently, inefficient( in the ratio of its moisture content.) Size of logs or pieces is, preferably, about 7" x 5" x 5"
The model that they have installed is a 30Kw which is about 5' H x 2' W x 5' L. It cost them 3,000Euro but they did have to buy a Stove Pipe of some 9" diameter (critical - they said) for a further 500Euro.
Their burner is set up in a shed which is then incidentally heated by it.
There is a valve on the output pipe that sends some 30% of heated water directly back to the boiler thus saving energy.
The fuelling is carried out much as one would fuel and fire up a normal living room fire- in- a -grate , with paper, small sticks and then logs, once fired (Improved draughting is available by a "choke" arrangement on the firebox) the fuel requires to be topped up approx every 12 hrs. The temperature is electronically controlled at 70 - 73 Degrees Farenheit. (They told me that , without electricity it can be kept burning but requires continual supervision.)
In this site the boiler a) heats Domestic Water and b) heats up to 10 radiators in a house some 10/12 ft away from the shed. It is also (as I mentioned) heating the Boiler- room of the Out-house as well as an office, toilet and utility room in the same Out-building.
The owners have had Oil fired Central Heating for many years and also an Oil Fired Rayburn Cooker both of which they have kept as a stand-by system. This is still connected to the house plumbing with non-return valves to control the flow of hot water depending on which system is operating.
In the back yard of this persons house I could readily observe a pile of small trees ready for chain-sawing and outside the shed door there was a farm bucket of ashes which, I was informed, was actually three weeks clean out of the firebox, after continuous operation. Naturally the burner would need to be cleaned of deposits (resin, soot, whatever) after a Winter of full-time burning (As Oil-Fired Burners do also)
I have to say that, as an ordinary consumer searching for a heating solution, it was impressive. It is (Patented) and Manufactured by IRLEH, Wolsztyn (Is this Poland ?) and the "Fona" name is (probably) just used here (Ireland) for sales purposes.

Subject: RE: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: Ian
Date: 05 Jan 07 - 06:31 AM

The two waste oil burners I have seen one was a warm air blower in an engineering workshop and the other was a domestic size cast iron boiler.
I have a feeling that the cast iron boiler was a standard oil burning unit with the inlet jet being the only modification.
I will revisit the other unit to check on the manufacturer and availability.
There was a feature in Octobers issue of OIL HEATING NEWS on using Biodiesel for heating oil.
Automotive biodiesel is B5 5% BioD 95% mineral diesel.
Heating oil is likely to be B20 20% BD and 80% kerosene.
B50 and B100 have been trialed but require the oil to be stored at over 20 deg C to prevent crystallisation of veg fats blocking filters.
Even B20 will require a preheat pressure jet burner. Work is in hand to design one that will convert existing boilers.

Subject: RE: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: GUEST,Jim Martin
Date: 14 Jan 07 - 08:56 AM

refresh

Subject: RE: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: Bee
Date: 14 Jan 07 - 12:02 PM

Friends of mine heat their largest greenhouse (commercial) with a waste-oil furnace. Their biggest problem is running around collecting the oil, and storing it when they have a lot. Also, here, waste oil is considered a hazardous waste material; permits are needed.

Wood outdoor furnaces seem to work best for efficiency. If we ever build new, we'd likely buy one. There's less cutting and splitting involved, as you can stick four-foot-long round logs in them. People who own them say fuelling is usually twice a day, and the heat is very good. I noticed Ian saying the Fonta boilers needed wood cut 7" X 5" X 5" - was that a typo, as that would require a lot of cutting?

Subject: RE: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: GUEST,Allan S
Date: 14 Jan 07 - 01:24 PM

Ian is that in the UK kerosene 20% Bio Fuel??? or in the US
I am having trouble w/ our oil fired furnaces/boilers clogging up the nozles in the burners and in the filters. and in the burners this results in an $80 bill for the repairman. Not a jod for the average person to do..

Subject: RE: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: GUEST,Allan S.
Date: 15 Jan 07 - 10:05 AM

Does anyone know what percent of bio fuel is in our [kerosene] oil used to fire our oil burners used for household heating here in the USA. From what I can figure "bio fuel" is any oil extrated from plants,manure ex palm oil, rape seed oil, wood chips et. Do any of these bio fuels burn as clean as Kerosine distilled from crude oil?

Subject: RE: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: Ian
Date: 15 Jan 07 - 11:35 AM

That is UK heating oil.
You might get the full info from Clean Energy Consultancy. email [e-mail]

Subject: RE: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: GUEST,Jim Martin
Date: 17 Jan 07 - 09:50 PM

Has anybody tried making briquettes from newspaper with any success, is it worth the time and effort involved?

Subject: RE: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: GUEST,EBarnacle
Date: 17 Jan 07 - 10:54 PM

Just passed a station in Philadelphia. Biodiesel is more expensive than regular diesel down here.

Subject: RE: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 18 Jan 07 - 07:47 AM

I heard that the newspaper briquettes tend to generate lots of ash.

Subject: RE: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: danensis
Date: 18 Jan 07 - 03:46 PM

Our meeting house recently needed a new boiler, and we looked at both fuel cell technology and wood pellets. Luckily the bulding is on a slope, and there was enough space between the back wall and the top road to fit the silo for the pellets. It would only need filling once a year. However in the end it was decided that both technologies were a bit new, and that we would probably go for something different the next time the boiler was changed.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 18 Jan 07 - 09:10 PM

"Cutting down trees to burn in the form of wood pellets decreases the earth's capacity to recycle CO2 into oxygen."

Ah.... well,

Young growing trees take more CO2 out of circulation than older trees. In fact all trees give out CO2 themselves, as part of their own metabolic processes.

Robin

Subject: RE: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: Bunnahabhain
Date: 19 Jan 07 - 01:10 PM

Another thing is at least some of the wood pellets are produced from waste wood, ie the sawdust and offcuts from a sawmill and such like, so are not causing more trees to be felled.

Subject: RE: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: GUEST,Jim Martin
Date: 20 Jan 07 - 09:56 PM

Does anyone know if there is/are a standard/s for the composition of wood pellets or is it like food labelling, that you never really know what the hell you're getting?

Subject: RE: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: Slag
Date: 21 Jan 07 - 04:08 AM

You get a lot of variation. The amount of dust and dirt is a real factor as it will eventually plug up the machinery that delivers the pellet to the fire. My Dad built a box with a slant covered by 1/4 inch hardware cloth which the pellets tumble over and most of the dust, etc, falls into the collection box at the bottom.

Some are Doug Fir and some are hardwood pellets and some DO burn haotter than others. Just about the time you find one that works well at a reasonable price they change or go out of business.

Whereas, kerosene is prettymuch kerosene, whoever is selling it. Low parafin and sulfur content is the key with oil.

Subject: RE: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Feb 07 - 07:37 AM

refresh

Subject: RE: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Feb 07 - 07:39 AM

refresh

Subject: RE: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: bubblyrat
Date: 10 Feb 07 - 08:56 AM

Some comments regarding the above contributors.
I have spent my life so far ( 59 years) with open fires or multi-fuel stoves as a primary source of heating , and have worked for an "AGA/Rayburn " shop/installer. Firstly---I bought one of those newspaper briquette-makers about 10 years ago,& it was VERY labour-intensive.!! You need a dedicated area to work in,preferably with good drainage : an old bath ,or similar large container : Millions of sheets of newsprint : considerable physical stamina : a large,secure,dry,storage area for the finished product :or several domestic servants !. You shred the paper ( no glossy magazines),you add it to a large quantity of water in the bath or whatever ( Do NOT USE the bath in your bathroom---it/ you will turn black !!) ; you dollop the resulting pulp into the machine ,and press on the handles with some force. VAST quantities of filthy water now run EVERYWHERE.You then carefully remove the still-sodden paper brick from the machine, and put it,along with its fellows,in the HOT SUN to dry.After a day or so, you collect up the briquettes in your oddly -coloured arms,and lay them out on racks in your specially-constructed & heated & ventilated storage area. After about a year,you run low on coal/wood during a cold spell; AHA !! you cry,triumphantly. You go outside, and collect a load of yellow & unpleasant-lookin bricks. Each one weighs about 1 micro-gram, and you just KNOW it is going to burn up in 2 minutes.As you walk indoors,half of them crumble away to dust,and several spiders run inside your shirt. DON"T BUY ONE-PLEASE !!! Of course,they MAY have improved ----but ??
Secondly----In the UK, there are several drip-feed oil-burning stoves that do not need electricity in order to operate ;they are popular with people who live on boats,of which there are many in England.In the near future,much greater interest will result in greatly -increased production of "bio-Diesel" which is ,in essence, the oil of the Rape-seed plant,refined,cleaned,filtered and mixed with some methanol or similar substance,on which these stoves could run cheaply.Or go catch a Sperm Whale !!
Third---There has never been such a wide range of solid fuel (wood,coal,coke,anthracite,) stoves available.Even some of the smallest now have glass-lined boilers which can feed a small radiator or two, and on which one can cook.Some have built-in ovens,for example ,and hot-plate covers,(like an Aga) and at least one I know of has a large block of cast-iron that fits inside the top oven,and acts like a storage-radiator at night when the stove is out ( NOT a good idea to keep a stove going at night on a boat----lots of people have died from CO poisoning in their sleep).Up until 2 years ago, I lived for 8 years with a small "Stovax BRUNEL " wood-burner that was super-efficient & easy to clean & maintain.We NEVER paid for ANY wood !! We collected drift-wood from the beach---We were given wood by people who had,say,felled a tree in their garden----We went a whole winter with the frames of our old windows when we had double-glazing put in----We collected pine-cones from the nearby forest( DON"T USE green ones,your flue will RUN with sap !!) and--we burned HUNDREDS of hardwood " stretchers" from COFFINS (my partner"s dad was an undertaker !! ) and we went to furniture-makers and asked for all their off-cuts !! So,with a little imagination......!!!Then ,of course,you need to cut & store it, but hey !! Who said life was easy ??
If anyone is interested,I can find out about any particular stove,or tell you about the ones I know about ----I have even fitted small wood-burning stoves into camper-vans !! I can get you one made out of a camping-gas cylinder even !!

Subject: RE: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: GUEST,beachcomber
Date: 10 Feb 07 - 05:17 PM

Bubblyrat,I am hoping to install an oil burning cooker/boiler from the Stanley 80 range. I wonder what amount of oil it will burn if I have it working on "Constant" , say for a day ? Do you have any experience of this product. It is very, very similiar to your Aga/Rayburn. I also have a small wood burning stove , from the same maker, also ready to install and wonder if scrap wood can be used to good effect in that?
It was great to see someone else refresh my thread as I feel that you have the experience that many of us would be happy to access.

Subject: RE: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: GUEST,Jim Martin
Date: 10 Feb 07 - 11:03 PM

Sorry, it was me refreshed thread & forgot to put my name to it!

I'm still burning a 50/50 mix of anthracite/smokeless coal in my solid fuel stove which supplies 5 radiators in my small cottage which has roof insulation but that's about all! I got through 14 bags in the month of Jan which cost me €210 (about $70). Roll on the Summer!

I did try wood briquettes but it was too labour intensive (& expensive)!

Hope this thread keeps going, very interesting & more & more relevant by the day.

Subject: RE: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: Wolfgang
Date: 13 Feb 07 - 03:50 AM

There are some good arguments for wood pellets, but OPEC not being able to influence the wood pellet prices isn't one of them.

What would happen if OPEC could double/triple etc. the price for oil? More people would think about alternative fuels. The demand for these fuels would go up and the price as well.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 13 Feb 07 - 05:04 AM

"could"?

The price wil lincrease sooner or later - and rather more rapidly than people will like...

Subject: RE: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: bubblyrat
Date: 13 Feb 07 - 03:01 PM

Hello ! Been away for a couple of days !! Beachcomber !!-----Hi !!
Yes,I know the "Stanley " brand ----I used to sell them in my shop ! And I like them a lot.But the best way to run them (if you can) is to get them up to temperature, then turn them down to a lower setting. Of course,if you use the stove for cooking,this will soon bring the temp.down, so ,again,you will need to bring it back up .It"s a pain,I know,but I wouldn"t leave it running flat-out all the time,if only because it won"t do the burner any good !! You may find yourself "tweaking " it once or twice a day------but that"s part of the fun !! Stanley also make a small oil-burning stove called a "Shire " ---- they are very economical on a low setting -about a quarter-litre per hour ( but that"s on a very low setting !) I guess you"d have to double that easily for your Stanley 80 series,as it"s so much bigger !.---- say,12 litres per 24 hours. That would be variable,depending on how much you depended on it for your hot water as well as heating & cooking !!
The wood-burner should cope with Scrap wood, as long as it"s dry & well seasoned, ie furniture off-cuts. Does your stove have one air-control or two ?? With two controls, it is easier to get the "dancing flame " effect. This is where you get wood,in a hot stove, that reaches its flash-point and gives off gas. This gas ignites about half -way up inside the stove, and gives a fantastic "flickering " effect !! It takes practice,fiddling with the air controls, but it"s worth it !
I don"t know where you are,or how cold it gets-----this will obviously affect your overall oil consumption, but,if you can afford the oil,& your tank is big enough, you will soon find yourself living in the same room as the Stanley,and it becoming the focal point of your home , & your life -----they get you like that !!!

Subject: RE: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: Naemanson
Date: 14 Feb 07 - 03:27 AM

I love these threads about staying warm. It reminds me why I moved to the tropics...

Subject: RE: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Feb 07 - 08:43 PM

corn.
the corn stove brought to you by the same guy that promotes sleep number beds, burns up to 50 lbs of corn a day.


In NEw JErsey I saw the first totally Hydrogen powered home complete with the electroysis machine powered by new solar cells that makes the hydrogen.


I was REally nice but cost an extra 80-100 thousand more for the conversion since it was custom and not mass produced.

Subject: RE: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: GUEST,Jim Martin
Date: 08 Dec 07 - 08:31 AM

Refresh please.

Subject: RE: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: GUEST,Allan S.
Date: 08 Dec 07 - 09:29 AM

Good thread keep it going. To answer my own question of last year.. I finally bought one of those electric [mantis] splitters about $500 and to let you know they are worth it . No it is NOT heavy duty but to date my son and I have split 8 full cords of misc hard wood.It will handle a 12 inchwide log but we figured how to do wider ones dont try to split them in 1/2 but take slices around the edge. and as the logs become smaller then cut in 1/2.
also as to wood in this area the city will cut down dead trees and cut them to 4 foot length it is the owner who must get rid of the wood. if you have a truck they are glad to have you take the wood away some of it can be roten or hard and dry. also i have switched to an electric chain saw. Not as fast as gas but if you take the time it will get the job done.. of course you will need electricy. if that goes out forget about it all. and kiss your but good buy

Subject: RE: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: Bee
Date: 08 Dec 07 - 10:41 AM

This year, under time constraints with regard to splitting it ourselves, we paid for processed (cut 16" and split) hardwood, four cords $680. Canadian, plus we have a cord of free slabwood. It is more expensive every year to heat with wood, but still a little cheaper than the alternatives presently available.

Subject: RE: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: danensis
Date: 08 Dec 07 - 05:49 PM

Curiously I was only looking at wood pellet burners yesterday. I found the following site very good:

http://www.nef.org.uk/logpile/pellets/cost.htm

John

Subject: RE: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: GUEST,Jim Martin
Date: 09 Dec 07 - 08:18 AM

I rather get the impression that wood pellet boilers can be troublesome with a lot of technology which can go wrong (like modern cars). Can anyone who has one prove me wrong?

Subject: RE: BS: Oil or Wood Pellet ?
From: GUEST,Jim Martin
Date: 11 Dec 07 - 10:55 AM

I guess not!