Learning Banjo Again, Correctly

Subject: Learning Banjo Again, Correctly
From: DonMeixner
Date: 29 Nov 06 - 07:57 PM

I have been playing my Ode Longneck Five now for 15 years. I must say it is a great instrument. But I have been playing it totally short of it's potential for all those fifteen years. I mostly flat pick it or frail. Frailing I do in the most basic of ways. I want to stop playing banjo like a guitarist and learn to play Three-fingered banjo, possibly in a more Bluegrass like manner or just a solid folk style.

I found in a friends garage four years worth of The Banjo Newsletter, from 1976 -1980. I'm starting there. Any advice from the many who play Banjo among us?

If you were learning a Bluegrass tune as your first Banjo tune in a three fingered style what would it be?

I have learned a basic forward roll and a basic reversed roll and thats about it.

Don

Subject: RE: Learning Banjo Again, Correctly
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 29 Nov 06 - 08:38 PM

Good luck! It's difficult to unlearn some of those old styles and habits.

SRS

Subject: RE: Learning Banjo Again, Correctly
From: GUEST,Richie
Date: 29 Nov 06 - 08:45 PM

I teach banjo. One important consideration is whether to place you right hand ring (3rd) and pinky (4th) on the drum head near the bridge. Although it is traditional I don't recommend it.

I usally teach Bile Them Cabbage or part of Cripple Creek first.

I recommend doing the rolls using sympathetic movement. It's a fairly complex concept but basically your fingers move in the same direction.

Most banjo teachers don't understand "Sympathetic movement" of technical muscular concepts such as uniform joint movement (a right-hand problem with some pickers).

Richie

Subject: RE: Learning Banjo Again, Correctly
From: GUEST,DonMeixner
Date: 29 Nov 06 - 09:06 PM

Well I gotta admit Richie you have me at a loss with Sympathetic Movement. Can you describe in a different manner?

Thanks for the help.

Don

Subject: RE: Learning Banjo Again, Correctly
From: GUEST,Richie
Date: 29 Nov 06 - 09:38 PM

When you play the T i m roll (forward roll) I and m move in the same direction (sympathetic).

T plays i and m move out together.

i plays pulling m to the string, m plays.

i and m move in the same direction.

Most people incorrectly alternate i and m. (They play i then move m out (alternation).

m should move out with i when p is playing.

The principle of uniform joint movement: The tip joint, middle joint and bottom joint (right hand index finger) should be moving in the same direction (flexion) when playing. There is a tendancy to lift the bottom joint when flexing the tip joint to play a string (opposed movement).

These are two problem areas. I can give more details if interested.

Richie

Subject: RE: Learning Banjo Again, Correctly
From: GUEST,DonMeixner
Date: 29 Nov 06 - 10:14 PM

Thanks Richie,

That was very clear and I understand the meaning better now. I think I need to add some info from my end of things for you.

Two fingers on my left hand were surgically reattached after a table saw injury the nailed all five digits on that hand. My right wrist and thumb were crushed by machinery as well. Now, when I frail I roll my wrist in to "Cock The String" rather than drop the wrist. Interestingly, I can use a thumb pick in a mostly normal picking manner.

These accidents were 17 years ago and what ever ability I have is what I have. The way I move now is so long in use it has become normal and natural for me. So any advice I get I have to modify if needs be to suit my ability.

Thanks for the help. I appreciate it very much.

Don

Subject: RE: Learning Banjo Again, Correctly
From: Greg B
Date: 29 Nov 06 - 10:25 PM

Well, there's not a damned thing wrong with frailing if done
right. Lose the flat-pick, though. Proper frailing is done
like you're holding a broom-handle. Grow out your index
finger nail to the point where you're just afraid to pick
your nose.

Subject: RE: Learning Banjo Again, Correctly
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 29 Nov 06 - 10:27 PM

correctly. banjo. Two words that don't belong together.

Subject: RE: Learning Banjo Again, Correctly
From: GUEST,DonMeixner
Date: 29 Nov 06 - 10:50 PM

Thanks for the advice Greg, I expect you are correct. I should avoid the flatpick. I do rely on the flat pick quite a bit for the band work I do. Hell, if John Hartford was OK with flatpicking the Five String Banjo I guess its OK with me. I would like to learn something new.

I know exactly what you mean Dick, I've seen you play the banjo before.

Don

Subject: RE: Learning Banjo Again, Correctly
From: mandotim
Date: 30 Nov 06 - 04:14 AM

I'm in the same position; I got a teacher, and his advice was very clear. Forget about the left hand for a while, spend hours just practising different 'rolls' over and over again with the right hand, until they become second nature; the ones he recommended were the forward roll, backward roll, forward-reverse roll (sometimes called a square roll) and the foggy mountain breakdown roll (with an index finger lead). Took me about a month, and I still struggle a bit with the FMB roll. This process is boring, but essential IMHO. The notes come from the left hand, but the music comes from the right. Most banjo music, especially fiddle tunes, is arranged as a sequence of rolls interspersed with hammer ons and pull offs, so once the rolls begin to flow, the rest is quite straightforward. Tunes to try; Cripple Creek, Banjo in the Hollow (Dillards), then move on to things like Blackberry Blossom, Fishers Hornpipe, Devils Dream etc. Next stop is the more hardcore Scruggs stuff.
Good luck!
Tim

Subject: RE: Learning Banjo Again, Correctly
From: GUEST,Russ
Date: 30 Nov 06 - 01:31 PM

Don,

If you want to play bluegrass music, emulate Earl Scruggs.

For music other than bluegrass, people like Doc Boggs or Charlie Poole or Marvin Gaster or Will Keys might be better role models.

You might find this link useful:

http://www.banjohangout.org/

Russ (Permanent Banjo Playing GUEST)

Subject: RE: Learning Banjo Again, Correctly
From: oombanjo
Date: 30 Nov 06 - 02:22 PM

I have just lent to a friend, a book and Cd by Tony Ellis. My friend wants to move on from his bluegrass style of play but cannot get together with frailing. The method in this book is an amalgamation of up picking, three finger style and frailing and produces some terrific tunes in all the different timings. All the best Oombanjo

Subject: RE: Learning Banjo Again, Correctly
From: GUEST,Patrick Costello
Date: 30 Nov 06 - 04:43 PM

Basic frailing can be pretty powerful stuff - and you can get the whole bluegrass thing along with the country blues thing out of the basic frailing pattern.

My advice would be to work on what you already know.

-Patrick
http://howandtao.com