BS: UK Police Should We Expect More

Subject: BS: UK Police Should We Expect More
From: The PA
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 08:07 AM

On Saturday 04 November 2006 while a friend and I were riding along a local lane, two young lads in old style mini's came up behind us and had to wait for an approaching car to pass. While they were waiting, we revved their engines (that low rev that sounds as though there's no exhaust) so much that the horses spooked and we finished up on the other side of the road, in front of the approaching car. As these lads sped off we managed to get one of the registration numbers. We called the police, and before we got back to the yard, the police had called my husband to ask us to go to the local police station to make statements which we did. Unfortunately my friend had to leave before she could give hers as she is a diabetic and needed to eat. The police officer promised that they would see her the next day to get her statement. That night we learned that these two lads are local, and we were quite likely to meet them again. The following Monday I contacted the police to let them know this and they promised action would be taken, as "they take this kind of thing very seriously". Two weeks and two phone calls later they had still not taken my friends statement, or followed up the incident. After my
third call they promised again that they would go and see her to get her statement. Again nothing. Then we made an official complaint, I was called back by the complaints officer who promised (again) that I would have an answer in three days. A week and a half later I get a phone call on Saturday night to tell me that they were too busy to deal with this and because of the time span its too late to do anything about it. My neighbour is also a Police officer and he said this is total rubbish, there is no time limit. Its now exactly a month since this incident and the Police have done nothing.

I will just add the two horses in question are used to traffic and are generally very well behaved. Both riders have passed their Riding and Road Safety Tests (sort of driving test for horses and riders organised by the British Horse Society and the Police).

I know this is not the crime of the century, but surely we deserve better than this, or am I expecting too much. Should I bother trying to make another complaint. Thoughts and opinions please.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Police Should We Expect More
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 08:31 AM

Unfortunately the days have gone where everything to do with the law was respected by the majority and pressure is on the Police to cope with more incidents than they can sensibly handle. We all know this to be true and most have experienced something similar to the above.
However, what those lads did is not classed as serious crime these days and it is serious crime that the Police are trying to cover with limited resources.
Until the Government....who make all kinds of promise....do something about handling motoring offences..other than speeding...which is monitored by cameras and making the Government a small fortune....we will keep hearing of incidents such as the above.
Last week I saw an old lady knocked down whilst walking on the kerb when a bicycle carring two teenage boys came hurtling round a corner in town. There is a law against riding on the kerb and a law aginst two people riding on a bicycle unless it is designed for two. Nothing was done about this incident and I'm sure those lads will carry on riding recklessly on the kerb.
The PA...the Police probably see you as a 'pain in the ----' as the incident is not 'important' enough to warrant their intervention...sad to say it will go on being so.
Best wishes, Mike.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Police Should We Expect More
From: Grab
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 08:52 AM

Should I bother trying to make another complaint

Hell yes!

As you say, it's not the crime of the century, and if there's more serious stuff happening then obviously they have to prioritise. That's not the problem - the problem is that they've said they won't do anything at all.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Police Should We Expect More
From: The PA
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 09:24 AM

Georgiansilver, while I agree that the police are over-stretched to say the least, it was their responce which prompted us to take it further. While we were at the police station it was they who were talking about these lads being charged with driving without due care and attention/dangerous driving etc etc., and us being prepared to go to court is necessary. It was the police who said that they could force the driver of the one car to give them the name of the other driver (if you follow what I mean).

If they said in the beginning that, whilst they felt sorry for us, there was infact not alot they could do, then we would have accepted that.

I wonder what the response would have been if, after they had passed us, they had met my husbands tractor coming the other way! They wouldn't have stood a chance.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Police Should We Expect More
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 09:32 AM

Isn't that what our 'Community Support Officers' are for? Dealing with the day to day, lost dog stuff that takes up the time of other, more qualified Police Officers?

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: UK Police Should We Expect More
From: Lox
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 09:40 AM

Write to the local paper.

Use every legally approved way at your disposal to embarrass them into doing something.

Accuse them of being in cahoots with the lads and threaten scandal!

Use your imagination - I'll bet it's more productive than mine.

Have fun.

Have a protest, with horses (and dung if they are well fed beforehand and have to stand around) outside the station.

Make mischief and tip the press off.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Police Should We Expect More
From: The PA
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 10:15 AM

Cheers Lox, thats brilliant, but will you come and visit me in prison!!

Subject: RE: BS: UK Police Should We Expect More
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 04:24 PM

PA, Could you not just of said "Police Should We Expect More" You used the "UK" word. I am afraid to post now ! As I could be accused of being a bigot as before. It's no different in Ireland. A lot of points raised in the "yobs thread" referred to this.
Thanks
DS

Subject: RE: BS: UK Police Should We Expect More
From: Leadfingers
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 08:20 PM

Its the paper work involved in 'minor' crimes ! That is why people can ride pushbikes on the pavement , and with out lights , and its why cars are illegally parked facing the wrong way without parking lights , and why burglary is NOT investigated etc etc etc etc etc !!

Subject: RE: BS: UK Police Should We Expect More
From: GUEST,Murray on Saltspring
Date: 05 Dec 06 - 02:42 AM

The police are doubtless undermanned and spread thin etc. etc., BUT they promised they would act; the Complaints Officer said he would act. Nothing done - so the promises have been broken. They maybe shouldn't have been made in the first place, but they were made, so the police are accountable. PA, stir the shit and show them up. Is there any more you can legally do to complain??

Subject: RE: BS: UK Police Should We Expect More
From: The PA
Date: 05 Dec 06 - 03:40 AM

Divis, sorry if you were offended. Please do post if you have something to add. I'm sure its no different in Ireland.

Is there anyone out there who's experience something like this. What did you do? What happened, anything? Perhaps there's a member of the Police force who'd like to put their point of view.

Worth a try??

Subject: RE: BS: UK Police Should We Expect More
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 05 Dec 06 - 07:00 AM

Of course, if you want the police to have the manpower to fulfil our expectations, you need to vote in a leader who will give them and nurses, teachers, doctors and Legal Aid lawyers the pay rises they deserve, rather than what someone feels should be 'sufficient'.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: UK Police Should We Expect More
From: Dave (the ancient mariner)
Date: 05 Dec 06 - 07:54 AM

Next time a horseshoe through their windshield should prove effective

Subject: RE: BS: UK Police Should We Expect More
From: Bunnahabhain
Date: 05 Dec 06 - 07:55 AM

If you factor in the earlier than anyone else, gold-plated public sector pensions, the deserving public servents listed above aren't doing too badly.


If the police have to work within their current procedures, making even the most simple cases take hours to write up, then there would never be enough of them. A happy medium between the morass of red tape and a total lack of supervision and control is hard to strike. We have one extreme now, and divis sweeny can probably describe the other only too well.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Police Should We Expect More
From: Shields Folk
Date: 05 Dec 06 - 09:17 AM

I'm comming to the conclusion that to expect service you have to make a lot of noise, even if you have little to complain about making a fuss brings results. Its wrong butif your a little old lady who doesn't want to make a fuss you WILL get fobbed off.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Police Should We Expect More
From: Shields Folk
Date: 05 Dec 06 - 09:33 AM

Oh, and go straight to the top.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Police Should We Expect More
From: The PA
Date: 05 Dec 06 - 11:19 AM

A letter has been penned to the Chief Constable demanding answers.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Police Should We Expect More
From: GUEST,Bruce Michael Baillie
Date: 05 Dec 06 - 12:08 PM

Shields folk is right, you cannot make too much fuss! on occasions like this it's the old case of 'the squeeky wheel gets the grease'. We had loads of problems in our area with teenagers and kids throwing eggs, rotten fruit, stones etc at our house and hurling abuse at us. (basically because we'd dared to stand up to them about their anti-social behaviour) We complained to the police (at one point we were even laughed at for making a fuss by the officer on the other end of the phone, 'well you can expect this kind of thing from kids nowadays!' he told us. However, we persevered and made a nuisance of ourselves, we rang the police after every incident no matter how trivial it seemed, we complained to the council and also wrote to our local MP, and eventually things have been done, the area is a lot quieter. Complain, LOUDLY it is your right, the law does not allow us to take retribution ourselves so get them off their arses to do their job, which is what they get paid for! I know it's not easy being a policeman/woman but, nobody forces them to join!

Subject: RE: BS: UK Police Should We Expect More
From: The PA
Date: 06 Dec 06 - 03:28 AM

After I'd written to the CC my friend had a call from the Police Complaints people. She told them exactly what we thought of their attitude, so the complaints officer promised to call me straight away to sort it out. Guess what no call, what did we expect.

Thanks all for your advice and support, we are deffinitely not going to let this go.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Police Should We Expect More
From: The PA
Date: 13 Dec 06 - 11:20 AM

Just to put this one finally to bed.

We wrote letters of complaint to the Chief Constable and our local MP. Within a week we had action. The Inspector of our local police station intervened at the request of our MP. The offenders have been visited, cautioned and had a 'Section 59' order placed on their vehicles. They turned out to be father and son and totally denied everything well what did I expect. A 'Section 59' means that if this registration is brought to the attention of the Police again in the next 12 months, the car is confiscated and the owners will have to pay a fine to get it back. This is a new measure which is open the Police in the UK in order to tackle the Boy Racer problems, but our force is one of only a couple which has decided to use it. I will also be getting a full written report into why everything took so long to get done.

So I think we claim this as a success of sorts.

Thanks for your interest.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Police Should We Expect More
From: GUEST,heric
Date: 13 Dec 06 - 12:08 PM

Hell's bells get your car stolen in San Diego and it's hardly worth the time to place a first call to the police, never mind follow up. And forget about trivialities such as burglary. But for my first jaywalking ticket, I just paid $118.00. Sounds as if you have a fine force there.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Police Should We Expect More
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Dec 06 - 05:13 PM

Divis - The 'yobs' thread said British. This one says UK. The former is the island comprising England, Scotland and Wales. The UK is the United Kingdoms of England, Scotland, Wales and Ireland. Albeit the latter is now only Northern Ireland. There was no point in posting what you did as the UK does include Ireland while Britain does not. I have come to expect both a better argument and more decorum from you but I shall put it down to a fit of peak:-) Put your feet up and think of riding the BMW across europe in the sun.

Back to the point - Yes you should expect more of the UK Police. They are under pressure to keep crime figures down so anything that they accept is a crime makes them look bad unless they solve it. This is one that they should take on because they can log it and solve it in one go! Make 'em 'ave it!

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: UK Police Should We Expect More
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 13 Dec 06 - 06:41 PM

That would be pique?

Subject: RE: BS: UK Police Should We Expect More
From: Gizmo
Date: 13 Dec 06 - 07:10 PM

Similar disinterest from police happened to me last year.

My neighbours boyfriend came knocking on my door threatening me with violence if I did not hand my dog over to him when he comes back in an hour - time enough to get the dogs things together. I explained my kids were in the flat, and he was even more foul mouthed than before, but soon left, with threats hanging in the air. I thus phoned my mum, telling her what happened and to get to mine as quick as possible, with as much male back up as poss. She said to phone police, which I did. I called 999, as by then, my neighbour had come down the stairs (in the block of flats) and was banging on the door, trying to kick it in. Meanwhile, my children are in a panic, the dog is whining and I 'm trying to explain down the phone, that we are in danger. The operator said it sounded like a civil dispute, and would get the police to turn up as soon as possible.

My neighbour got more and more forceful, and while trying to reason with her, I was finding it harder to not just open up my front door and shout at her to go away, but I stayed calm as could be behind my door, refusing to let the junkie in, fearing she would take more than the dog, and perhaps the tv, video, etc.

My parents arrived in 15 mins from the call. Still no sign of the police, despite me impressing the violence threatened to me by this person I did not even know the name of.

After words dished out by the woman to my mum, (the police ringing me once to say don't open the door whatever you do) her boyfriend came down the stairs expecting her to be shouting at me, in his hands were an iron bar and a knife. He had the shock of his life when he saw my mum, dad, brother and uncle looming by my door.

He then went upstairs after my dad asked him to join the discussion, but the psycho was going to use those weapons on me. I was the intended, thankfully he didn't.

The police took 45 mins from the emergency call to get to my flat. They did not take the event seriously at all, only getting my statement, which they did not get me to sign. I had to get my children to safety, so we ended up at my parents, where we still are because

a) harrassment in my council means only racial, or domestic
b) despite her having many previous convictions, this harrassment was not enough for the local police to arrest her, just talk to her and give verbal warning.
c) After appealing to my council to get me moved, I was pushed from pillar to post and back again
d) my mp has no authority over housing allocations and reasons for moving
e) the police statement issued to the council regarding what happened was full of holes, and although the operator marked that a distuebance could be heard on the phone from the neighbour, until she broke in it was not a serious threat to myself or children - apparently
f) my council wanted me to go back to the flat, to act as bait, so that if she did it again she could be issued with an asbo
g) because my children witnessed everything, the police had to inform social services, thus making me out to be a bad mum, only because I had the misfortune to have such an evil neighbour as I did.

I spent over a year trying to get justice, but to no avail. My faith in the police has hit rock bottom. They could not protect my family, or myself when it was needed. They would have only reacted if I had become seriously, and physically injured.

Sorry to rant, but I understand the feeling of banging your head against a wall when it comes to local authority and police.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Police Should We Expect More
From: GUEST,smiley
Date: 14 Dec 06 - 09:34 AM

I'm just your bog standard, working class, middle aged bloke, brought up to have respect for the law and the people who are there to enforce it and protect me. I've never been in any real trouble and get on with my life in a fairly anonymous way, along with the vast majority of my fellow citizens. I've no axe to grind with authority and want to support the law abiding AND those who may have been less fortunate than me and found themselves in trouble for one reason or another.

So why is it then that I have completely lost confidence in the police? Could it be that in my dealings with them, sometimes on a professional level, I have found them patronising, ignorant, superior, deaf and unconcerned. I see senior officers in the media spouting glib platitudes. Police officers that I have met socially have been racist, misogynistic and homophobic.

I recall seeing something on TV recently, at the time of some unrest in the black community in one of the cities. The local community leader was talking sense, he could obvously relate to the people who were in the middle of the hassle and there was no doubt in my mind that he could have made a contribution to sorting things out. the local police inspector was talking in that infuriating 'I was proceeding in a northerly direction......' speak, saying nothing, suggesting nothing othet than that the police would handle it in their way.

I've come to the conclusion that people who want to be police officers, by definition, are probably the worst people to be in the job. Think of the motivation for joining the police - why would anybody want to do it other than because they have a need for power, a good wage and pension, being part of a team, a uniform. I honestly do not believe that people do it out of a sense of doing good in the community.

The answer to the question is yes, we should expect more of our police. God knows how we're going to get it.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Police Should We Expect More
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Dec 06 - 12:29 PM

Phonetics, Richard, phonetics. Them Phonetians have a lot to answer for...

:D (tG)

Subject: RE: BS: UK Police Should We Expect More
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Dec 06 - 01:10 PM

I said,

"Use every legally approved way at your disposal to embarrass them into doing something."

you said

"Cheers Lox, thats brilliant, but will you come and visit me in prison!!"

????

Subject: RE: BS: UK Police Should We Expect More
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 Dec 06 - 04:39 PM

Accuse them of being in cahoots with the lads

That might actually be the case. Policemen's kids are quite often problematic youngsters.

I don't think you should shrug this failure off as just something that happens everywhere, because it doesn't. This was life-threatening behaviour on the part of the driver. On the basis of the response we have had here from the police to stuff that has been much less serious - shed break-ins and such - I am reasonably confident that it wouldn't happen here.

I think a letter to your MP with a copy to the local press would be in order.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Police Should We Expect More
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 14 Dec 06 - 05:14 PM

Mr McGrath, you're getting careless! Please read:

Subject: RE: BS: UK Police Should We Expect More
From: The PA
Date: 13 Dec 06 - 11:20 AM

Just to put this one finally to bed.

We wrote letters of complaint to the Chief Constable and our local MP. Within a week we had action. The Inspector of our local police station intervened at the request of our MP. The offenders have been visited, cautioned and had a 'Section 59' order placed on their vehicles. ... SNIP


The rest is up above, eight posts or so.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Police Should We Expect More
From: GUEST,AR
Date: 11 Mar 09 - 03:37 PM

Just saw on the BBC news that a policeman (PSNI) robbed a branch of the Northern Bank this morning in Ballymena Northern Ireland. When police arrived to arrest him, he shot himself.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Police Should We Expect More
From: Eric the Viking
Date: 11 Mar 09 - 04:53 PM

HOW MANY COPPERS WITH CRIMINAL RECORDS ?! There shouldn't be one, let alone the number announced in the news today.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Police Should We Expect More
From: bubblyrat
Date: 12 Mar 09 - 03:33 PM

I used to be in awe of what were once our wonderful,kind,considerate,efficient,public-spirited,world-renowned,universally -respected British Bobbies.
                         So---how do I feel today??

      To be frank and honest.....confused,bewildered,and,above all,frightened.

    Really.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Police Should We Expect More
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 12 Mar 09 - 09:27 PM

I don't think it should be assumed that they are actually that different from their predecessors from those times bubblyrat referred to.

Even if it there to be the case that today there were more with criminal records of one sort or another, the crucial thing at any time isn't so much how many have criminal records, but how many have criminal ways which have been covered up by colleagues. I suspect that on that score the situation might even be better than in the rosy past.