BS: Nightime leg cramps

Subject: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: Wesley S
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 10:56 AM

It seems like every few months I'll have a session of leg cramps at night. There are two different types. Some hit the back of the lower legs. They hurt like hell but usually I can get up and stretch them myself. And often the next day I'll limp a bit as a result. The other type will go after the inner thigh. They start on the inside of the knee and radiate up to the top of the leg – right where the leg joins the body. And these suckers really hurt. It's enough to make a grown man mew like a newborn kitten. Usually the only thing that will get them to stop is deep pressure on the two points where the pain begins and ends.

I take calcium, drink plenty of water and eat bananas for potassium. My sister suggests drinking tonic water at night for the quinine. What else would you suggest? I have an appointment to see my new doctor anyway { we just moved } so I'll bring this up with him too but I was wondering if anyone else had this problem and what they do about it.

Something else – I can't prove this but I think this usually happens while I dreaming. I don't know if there is any relationship there or not. And yes our new house has two story's but this started long ago when we were living in a one story house.

Getting older is not for sissies.

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: Rapparee
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 11:17 AM

I have had them and still have them. Exactly what you describe, Wesley.

I told one doctor who said I should exercise more. Well, okay. When I got out here to Idaho I told the doctor out here and he prescribed Relais (?? -- it's advertised on TV). Didn't work. So he told me to take 325 mg. capsules of quinine. This has probably led to a hearing loss, as quinine is ototoxic (kills off the hairs in your middle ear and they don't grow back). Now I'm on a muscle relaxant; it seems to help.

Yes, I get plenty of calcium and potassium -- that was the first things I started.

If you do take quinine, WATCH IT!!!! I'm looking at bilateral hearing aids now.

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: Alba
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 11:21 AM

You might want to add Vitamin E in the mix too Wesley and Rapaire.

Leg Cramps are....OUCH!!
Hope you find some relief soon.
Love
Jude

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: Wesley S
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 11:24 AM

I normally take vitamin E but I ran out recently. I'll get some more. The calcium suppliment I take is called Calcet. And it has really helped.

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 11:33 AM

Try eating more salt.

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: pdq
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 11:48 AM

In the Summer, heavy perspiration may cause a loss of salt (Sodium), therefore leading to cramps. In the Winter, it is likely that you have too much salt, not too little.

Potassium is (in some ways) a balance to Sodium. Very few people get enough. Look for vegetables that are high in Potassium. Cut down over-salting foods in the Winter.

Exercise is needed, but be very conservative, especially as you get older. Walking a reasonable distance each day is great. Also steatching and aerobics are fine, but not classic weight-lifting. Even Arnold is looking more normal every year.

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: Bert
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 12:21 PM

Regular mild exercise. Intermittent strong exercise can give you cramps. And keep your legs warm, if your legs suddenly get cold they will cramp.

And what the others said about salt and potassium.

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: open mike
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 12:23 PM

i sometimes get these too
and if i can stand it I
try to reach for my toes
and pull to stretch the
calf muscle. sometimes
the cramp won't allow the
leg to straighten.

some people with siezures
have muscle contractions
so intense that the bones
break under the pressure.

yikes!

there is a type of calcium
from Cr. Bronner (of soap
fame) which is derived from
carrots.

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: JennyO
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 12:34 PM

I'm amazed nobody has mentioned magnesium yet. I was told that by my naturopath a few years ago, and it definitely works. I take a magnesium supplement called Bio Magnesium which also has calcium, vitamin B6, vitamin D3 and manganese. It's made in Australia by Blackmores, but there are probably equivalent products in other countries.

One thing that is worth mentioning is that calcium and magnesium work together, and an over supply of one can cause a deficiency in the other, so they need to be taken together in the right balance.

Sometimes I get lazy and forget to take them for a while, until another leg cramp reminds me, and I start taking them again. If I happen to have run out, I will keep getting leg cramps until I start on them again, then the effect is very quick - within 24 hours I'm back to normal. So it's obvious to me that they make a difference. It's been a few months now since I last woke up with a cramp.

Wesley, it's interesting what you said about getting cramps while you're dreaming. I can see why that would be. I think when you are dreaming, you tense up muscles - as if you were actually doing the thing you are dreaming you are doing - if you get my meaning. I've caught myself tensing up a muscle as part of a dream and then waking up because it has caused a cramp - particularly in my case if I extend my foot and curl the instep up a bit, it will cramp (if I haven't been taking my magnesium) and the only way to get rid of that is to slowly flex my foot the other way and stretch the muscle.

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 01:30 PM

My very large modern medical book only mentions salt intake and suggests that a regular salt intake will allay the problem.

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: freightdawg
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 01:48 PM

Are you pregnant? My wife had horrible leg cramps when she was pregnant. Wake up screaming in the middle of the night and, after I got my heart rate down, I had to push her toes back and give her calf muscle a major massage.

Just a thought.

Freightdawg

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: frogprince
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 01:56 PM

I came accross a really stupid idea in a doctor's newspaper column a couple of years ago; some people were claiming that if you put a bar of soap, even a little motel bar, under the bottom sheetin your bed in your leg area, it would relieve leg cramps. I had been having them bad, frequently, and we had motel soaps kicking around, so I figured it was a nothin'-to-lose thing.

Now my question is, "can you get a placebo effect from something you don't believe in at all"?. This seems about a likely as rubbing a penny on a wart and burying the penny; but I've had at least 80-90% less cramps, and then usually not all that painful, for a couple of years now.

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 02:10 PM

Some years ago my employer sent me on a week long course in Bournemouth. The course was held in a hotel in that resort. The hotel was air-conditioned and overheated. I vividly remember that this establishment had carpets made of some synthetic material and, as the air was very dry, anyone wearing shoes with synthetic soles (eg. me!)suffered electric shocks every time they touched a hotel fitting which allowed the accumulated electrostatic charge to run to earth (ouch!).
The other painful aspect of this course was excrutiating night cramps. Most of each day was spent in lectures and much water was drunk - both to counter the atmospheric dryness and, possibly, the booorredom!! This, inevitably, led to more visits to the toilet and the loss of sodium. I found that I actually craved salt and, as the hotel salt cellars tended to be blocked I had to resort to going out to buy salted peanuts; and these effectively stopped the cramps.

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: Sooz
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 02:25 PM

The ones in the calf go away instantly if you get hold of your toes and pull towards you (no pain the next day either).
I wish the ones up the back of my thigh were as easy to deal with. They are worse than labour pains! I also have one up the inside of my leg which pulls my foot into a strange position.

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 02:36 PM

Like all high-mileasge models in here, I get these periodically. I can almost predict when I'll get them. If I skip my morning walk for four or five days (no matter how valid the reason) my legs will start cramping up at night. All it takes is taking a walk again, even just for one day, to stop the cramps.

Old age should be so easy.

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: GUEST, Topsie
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 02:38 PM

Woolly bedsocks can help.

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: Becca72
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 02:39 PM

Just a side note on the calcium supplement...this needs to be taken with or have Vitamin D added to it to allow the body to absorb the calcium...

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: GUEST,petr
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 02:45 PM

when my wife was pregnant and had leg cramps she could deal with it (if she was fast enough) by reaching down and pulling on her toes.
It does have to do with some kind of chemical deficiency.

However years ago, I took part in a stress reduction workshop and while Id never had leg cramps at night they seem to be associated with
stress.

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: Wesley S
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 02:46 PM

Freightdawg - Since I'm a 55 year old male I really doubt that pregnancy is the cause of my problem. However - the next time I see my doctor I'll ask him to run a test. I'll practice safe sex until then - I wouldn't want the cramps to get any worse. Thanks.

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: MaineDog
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 02:52 PM

There is something called Restless Leg Syndrome, which results in leg pain similar to cramps, but not quite so severe. They even have expensive pills for the condition. Getting up and walking around helps RLS, but if you really have cramps, of course, you can't, right now.
I get cramps if I haven't got enough exercise recently (dancing is good)
I also get RLS. Using a bigger pillow seems to help rls, don't ask me why.
I haven't tried the expensive pills yet.
MD

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: Helen
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 03:20 PM

I'm with JennyO. I went through a stage last year where I had bad leg cramps which made me limp during the day. I had changed to a job where, although I could walk around a bit, I spent most of my time at my computer. This year I started a new job where I am stuck at my computer for the whole shift and force myself to walk around a bit every hour or so just to get my muscles working again, and I have started getting mild cramps again.

I did a search on the 'Net last year and discovered magnesium could help, along with everything else mentioned above. So now if I get cramps (not as bad as last year, though) then I have some Staminade, which is a sports drink - I use the powder because it's cheaper than buying it by the bottle - or some tonic water. My ex-manager told me his mother was on quinine tablets, but I just drink a glass of tonic water if I need the quinine.

Staminade: Supplement facts

"The carbohydrates in Staminade consist of glucose polymers, glucose (dextrose) and small amounts of fructose, in a combination found to be best for rehydration and replenishment of both muscle and liver glycogen stores. Staminade contains no sucrose (table sugar), no preservatives, artificial sweeteners or flavours. In addition Staminade contains added Vitamin C (antioxidant), a scientific blend of electrolytes and minerals (potassium, sodium, magnesium, calcium, chloride and phosphorus) and a poly-lactate & phosphate buffer system which may help to reduce acid build up in blood and muscle tissue thereby extending performance. Staminade is naturally flavoured with low sweetness and is lower in sodium and higher in potassium than traditional sports drinks."

Helen

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: pattyClink
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 03:37 PM

Magnesium not only helps with this, but is important for your heart, and needs to balance out your other minerals, no point in taking lots of calcium if your body is starved for magnesium.   

Magnesium, and getting some potassium from orange juice or bananas (stronger and more effective than the pills) have helped the big guy, and yes, the bar of soap seems to help too. Must be something in the fumes that has an effect, I have no idea what.

Magnesium and calcium taken at night seem to promote sleep. But do ease into it, 400 mg Mg is good, but you may need to start with 100 for your gut's sake.

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 03:39 PM

Very unpleasant - I've always found that a drink of mildly salty water seems to help. I was told that miners sometimes like to take a little salt in theior beer for that reason, because of all the salt they'd lose working away. Or salty crisps can do the trick.

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: katlaughing
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 04:14 PM

Ditto on the magnesium. Can't stress it enough. I had an episode that almost landed me in the ER. My doc immediately put me on magnesium. I take 500 mg per night and have not had any problems for almost a year.

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 04:23 PM

I understand that the muscle spasms here are a mild version of what you get from a police Taser. Pretty nasty to even think of it.

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 04:24 PM

I get cramp in the evening, after a hard day's work. It is always hot weather, so I've been sweating, and I've just blobbed out after working hard.
If I drink plenty of water DURING THE DAY, I don't get cramp. If I keep moving about in the evening, I don't get it either.

Vibro massage and salty water fixes it eventually.

Oddly enough, I get it in the thighs, but my upper body usually gets the harder workout.

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: Rapparee
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 04:31 PM

I've done the Mg route, both prescribed and on my own. I've done everything listed this far, and I fence in the bargain. Believe me, if I could have stopped them on my own I would have done so! Now I'm on muscle relaxant. The leg cramps started about 20 years back, the night after the first time I ever went cross-country skiing -- and yes, they HURT!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 04:34 PM

A reliable source of information is www.mayoclinic.com. Put the symptom in the search box. Night leg cramp is discussed, with the usual treatments. Muscle cramp is much more complex as to its causes; unless it is the usual type due to muscle strain, see a specialist.

I have night leg cramp occasionally. It is common as one gets older.
My doctor, for age symptoms, prescribes calcium-magnesium supplements (with trace zinc). Vitamin D is required, especially for those who get little sun and don't drink milk (think Canada in winter).
She prescribed quinine, to be used only as needed for more severe cramps, since it does have side effects (see post about ear trouble, above, but there are other side effects as well. I see that the Mayo Clinic lists two other possible nostrums.

When I was living in the desert southwest and spending some time in Mexico, and was younger and more active, I took salt tablets or otherwise increased salt intake.
Salt and sliced lime is often served with beer (as well as being part of margaritas). Pizza and other fast foods in Mexico often have too much salt for our taste. Now the doctor recommends low salt intake for me (somewhat elevated bp).
Even here in western Canada, better bars (pubs) serve lime and salt with Mexican beers, it has become trendy to do so.

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 05:11 PM

Yoga

Martial arts

Gym (with lots of stretching)

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 05:18 PM

I had cramps mostly in the back of my thighs last time I got myself in trouble with drink, wasn't eating properly and wound up in hospital. I think it was put down to my pottassium level being low. One thing though, the cramps continued for some time after the level returned to normal so I wouldn't go using this symptom as a guide to ones pottasium (which IIRC I was told is involved in regulating the heart) levels.

Of course, what ever causes yours need not be the same as what caused mine...

See your doctor. A blood test will tell if something like that is wrong.

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: freightdawg
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 06:18 PM

Anytime Wesley...

I deduced by the masculine appearance of your name that pregnancy would be the most unlikely source of your nocturnal torture; but my philosophy is to adhere to Sherlock Holmes' dictum that you start with the most obvious, and having eliminated all the incorrect options, the solution you end up with, no matter how improbable, is the answer.

Ergo, seeing as how everyone else was giving you sound, useable advice, I figured I would provide you with the most improbable, and, therefore, the most likely source of your pain.

Ain't logic wunnerful?

Freightdawg

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: Little Hawk
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 06:29 PM

I had one of those thigh cramps last night. OUCH! And I'm still favouring that leg a bit today. I think the onset of cold weather adds to the problem, possibly.

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: Bobert
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 06:34 PM

Lots of Iron City Beer works fir me jus' fine...

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 06:48 PM

I suffer from that restless leg thing... My legs aren't restless but Manitas' are, so I kick him.... usually works for me.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: Mr Red
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 06:53 PM

lack of salt is one indicator, but not the only one. I have had it mid summer after a ceilidh & alcohol. I don't think dehydration is the cause for me but on hot days you can desalinate despite drinking water. I certainly sweat a lot dancing. The problem with trying to replace the salt is knowing how much - too much is not good either. Packet of crisps?

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: terrier
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 06:58 PM

During our waking hours, if our limbs feel uncomfortable we move our bodies until we feel more comfortable.This continual movement helps blood flow and helps to keep muscles relaxed. During sleep hours we move about much less and therefor are more prone to muscular problems.Try to avoid heavy duvets/blankets on the bed which may restrict movement especially around the area of the feet as this can cause unusual and uncomfortable twisting of the upper leg. Also bear in mind lower back problems may be part of the cause.

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: LilyFestre
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 08:04 PM

I get cramps in my calves during the night occassionally too. They are severe enough that I can't move to massage the muscle or pull on my toes to stretch, I just have to pant my way through it and try to relax. During the following day, the cramped/tightened muscle is visable in it's knot and somewhat uncomfortable. I have found that besides the nutritional information given here, flexing my calf muscles when I first get into bed helps. I arch my foot and point my toes and move the foot so it is heel on the bed, toes to the ceiling and then toes pointed towards the bottom of the bed...flex, flex, flex...seems to work.

I hope you find some relief soon...waking up with that kind of pain is something we can all do without!

Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: Bert
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 08:23 PM

For sale - Wooly bed socks impregnated with salt, Epsom Salts, bananas and hotel soap.

SHould be a big hit.

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: frogprince
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 08:26 PM

LOL,Bert.

Subject: RE: BS: Nighttime leg cramps
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 09:35 PM

Packet of crisps should be enough, Mr Red. Or pork scratchings. ("Pork rinds" I believe is what they are called in the States, which somehow seems to sound a bit less appealing.)

A Marmite sandwich would do the job too.

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: katlaughing
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 11:53 PM

"...less appealing???" Oh, yeah, McG! I really wanna eat something a hog has scratched!**bg**

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: frogprince
Date: 05 Dec 06 - 12:22 AM

Y' ever realize what those so-called "pork rinds" really are?...














(A college roommate and I somehow got unto calling them "french-fried foreskins")

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 05 Dec 06 - 12:38 AM

I once found a recognisable ear in a packet... haven't eaten pork scratchings since.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: open mike
Date: 05 Dec 06 - 12:58 AM

*Chicharones or chicharron are fried pig skins, also called cracklings.

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: Little Hawk
Date: 05 Dec 06 - 01:01 AM

I wonder if elderly bats have this problem? They have to sleep while hanging upsidedown by their feet, poor things. Imagine getting a calf or thigh cramp in such a situation...

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: Slag
Date: 05 Dec 06 - 01:31 AM

Sports drinks, Gatorade, Gookenade, etc. all have a pretty good electrolyte balance. Quinine works but be careful. Bentyl and other phenobarbitals can help, ask you Doc! Are you taking any steriods? Cortisone? or using corisone cream for dermatitis? That and other medications can contribute to the leg cramps. Any new activities? New shoes? Light but frequent exercise to keep the old circulation going is good. I used to have to massage my son's legs most every night when he was having cramps (growing pains) as a child. He wound up 6'4". No wonder he hurt! You might try sleeping with a pillow between your legs (as opposed to other things!!). Hey, then again it might be time for a new materess!! Good luck. It seems like your getting a lot of things to try.

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: Slag
Date: 05 Dec 06 - 01:38 AM

Post Script: My own experience was that I had never had a cramp of any kind until I took up surfing at age 14. Day one I was in the water for hours and knee paddling back out through the surf. That night I found out what leg cramps are all about and have dealt with them off and on ever since.

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 Dec 06 - 08:30 PM

For them as like pork scratchings, that kind of thing is part of the appeal, Liz.

It's a bit like folk music really. The things that attract us to it are the very things that put off the rest of the world.

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: Mr Red
Date: 06 Dec 06 - 06:20 AM

I loooooove pork scratchings but since BSE and the offal ban they have been made mostly from rendered pigskin which is crackling. Now the marketing and public expectation is that crackling and scratchings are one and the same.
<RANT>
Scratchings were what was left from making lard, most of the fat had been drained out - so the fatty layers yielded more lard than any pigskin. Mostly found in the Black Country UK (don't even think Birmingham).
</RANT>

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: Rapparee
Date: 06 Dec 06 - 08:51 AM

I started wearing those socks that provide gradual compression because I also have mild diabetes. Don't remember having cramps in the calves since I started.

Whoa! Spandex! Heavy metal, here I come!!

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: Wesley S
Date: 26 Jan 09 - 04:17 PM

I was listening to the radio over the weekend and a woman on NPR says she gets immediate relief by taking a spoonful of yellow mustard when the cramp hits. Has anyone else heard of this?

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: Rapparee
Date: 26 Jan 09 - 06:49 PM

No.

You might have your parathyroid levels checked -- the test is abbreviated "PTH" for ParaThyroid Hormone.

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 26 Jan 09 - 08:10 PM

"A spoonful of mustard makes the agony go down" as Mary Poppins would have put it.

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 26 Jan 09 - 10:28 PM

Try a spoonful of hot Chinese mustard. It won't make your leg cramps go away, but you won't care. You'll be too busy trying to claw the sinuses from your head.

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 27 Jan 09 - 12:56 AM

My ex (a one time sports therapist or athletic trainer or whatever they call themselves now) used to keep sachets of ketchup from fast food places for the players to suck down if mid game cramp struck. That and snack boxes of Sunmaid raisins.

I've had restless leg syndrome all my life. Sometimes can't stand being inside my legs. Often have the leg cramps, but now I know when it is coming. I usually have a glass of water, eat a banana or baked potato. Also stand on a step with my heels hanging off the edge and then lower my heels, stretching the calf muscles. Then do lunges which also stretches the hamstring.

Ususally nips the cramp in the bud.

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: open mike
Date: 27 Jan 09 - 02:38 AM

i have heard of calcium for cramps
one way to get it is Tums with calcium

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 27 Jan 09 - 02:57 AM

Of course, cramps at night can also come from over indulgence in alcohol. A friend of mine was advised by his doctor to cut down the alcohol as he was having frequent leg cramps (after frequent nights of drinking)... it solved his problem... but it is a little difficult for him attending Folk Clubs where real ale is consumed in copious amounts and sticking to mineral waters....   he still gets leg cramps but not so regularly... if you get my drift.

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: Black belt caterpillar wrestler
Date: 27 Jan 09 - 07:36 AM

Is there any correlation with bad circulation?
I ask because I'm always the first to get cold hands or cold feet when the temperature goes down and I tend to get the leg cramps in the night after a day when I've noticed that I have had cold feet.

I am told that the pain is caused by a build up of lactic acid in the muscle not being flushed away in the blood stream, which also could be affected by the poor circulation theory. The lactic acid is generated by the muscle working and the problem is that the muscle has "switched on" and won't "switch off".
I always try tensing the muscle that is hurting and then relaxing it in an attempt to make it "switch off" naturally, and this works nine times out of ten. After that it's down to massage etc.

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: GUEST, topsie
Date: 27 Jan 09 - 08:04 AM

Woolly bedsocks

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: kendall
Date: 27 Jan 09 - 09:14 AM

You are going to laugh at this, but my Doctor, who is not only an MD but a DO as well, told me that some of his patients claim that a cake of soap in their beds prevents leg cramps. I laughed, asked him where he keeps his rattle, but I tried it. That was three weeks ago and no cramps since. Probably just a fluke.

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 27 Jan 09 - 09:35 AM

I find that pressing my foot against something cold works very well. If I feel a cramp coming I press my foot against our porcelain bathtub...works every time.

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: GUEST,PeterC
Date: 27 Jan 09 - 03:05 PM

In cold weather I get cramp in the sole of my foot. Bedsocks are the best preventative.

I sometimes get cramps in the calves, most often after ceilidhs. I always try to have crisps or salted peanuts during the evening.

The only cure I know once they come on is simply to get out of bed and put some weight on the leg.

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 27 Jan 09 - 04:36 PM

Muscle cramps are invariably related to circulatory problems, but that offers a very wide range of causes and cures, and some of the cures can be quite dangerous - especially if carried to extremes.

As noted, quinine sulphate is an "instant cure" for large muscle cramps; but was banned in the US as an over-the-counter (OTC) drug a few decades ago and is now available (in useful amounts) only by prescription. The cited reason for the ban was that quinine is a specific relaxant at the tendon/muscle interface where cramps are "triggered," but this is the same "critical area" where muscle function signalling occurs so it can also affect heart rhythm. Quinine also may be less effective for "small cramps" like those in toes and fingers.

Postural peculiarities can cause local reduction in circulation in a particular muscle, and even a fairly brief restriction in flow can cause the initiation of a cramp. Some people become fairly "active" during deep (REM) sleep, and "act out" their dreams, but others may become almost "rigid" and the prolonged holding of one position may allow a restriction of flow to a localized part of the body - particularly a part of a leg - to "accumulate a circulation deficit" leading to a cramp. (The small bar of soap gives you something to "kick around" and may lessen the likelihood that you'll hold a fixed position for long periods? Sleeping after imbibing also tends to reduce "sleep-motions" making one more prone to localized blockage of circulation?)

Sleep disturbances caused by things like apnea or COPD are commonly thought of in terms of oxygen depletion, which can cause cramps; but also can affect CO₂ levels in the blood that can cause the entire breathing and circulation process to "turn to crap." For one particular kind of cramp that I get, the most immediate fix is an 8 oz glass of saturated bicarbonate of soda to "kick up" the CO₂, but that doesn't work for the other kind(s). Long-term or habitual use of large doses of bicarb can cause unwanted side effects, but my team of advisors seem undisturbed by my reports of occasional use. It does include a fairly massive slug of sodium, but that isn't a concern for me.

Recent opinion on reduced sodium intake have found that not all people with high blood pressure benefit from drastic reduction. Some people are extremely sensitive to sodium, and need to restrict it; but for others of us it seems to have very little effect on bp. You may be somewhere in between. Drastic reductions in sodium can also cause uncomfortable side effects (see the Yuppie Flu of a decade ago) so you need to find out whether, and to what extent, you personally are affected before deviating from standard dietary guidelines.

Many of the other suggestions such as Calcium, Potassium, Vitamins, and such are important for general health, but to be effective require the creation and maintenance of appropriate and stable long-term levels in the system, so few of them are of much use for the immediate treatment of a specific incidence of a cramp (IMO). Getting up to get the pill may relieve the sluggish circulation, which will help. Taking something with a glass of water could help if you're a bit dehydrated. Massage, movement, and stretching often are about the only things that do a lot of immediate good for some kinds of cramps. Use of a good "massage vibrator" on the affected muscle may be helpful, but I have the last real "vibrator" sold in the US. Since ca. 1948, there are no readily available devices that "vibrate." The current ones potentially useful on large muscles just "hum lightly" and are not very effective.

(Personal opinion based mainly on long-term observation of a sample of only one rather decrepit body.)

John

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 27 Jan 09 - 08:18 PM

I occasionally get bed cramps upon waking and stretching with the my toes pointed (one should always stretch with the foot in an L position--the L you say!?).

The only cure I've found is to yell loudly, waking up Mrs. Coast, and massage the calf for a few minutes. The dirty looks from the wife also help the pain go away.

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 28 Jan 09 - 12:56 AM

I haven't read the thread, just the first post. Wesley, do you listen to KERA-FM? They had the Gradens' from "People's Pharmacy" on this weekend for the pledge drive. The answer they recommend is as silly as anything they've heard, but apparently it works. I just looked up a few posts--Kendall says the same thing as they did.

Get a bar of soap. Ivory works, the caller said Coast also works, but Ivory is less expensive. Put it under the bottom sheet on the mattress pad near your legs at the point where you get the cramp. That will get rid of it. They didn't say weather they take the wrapper off or not, but I guess I'd do it without the wrapper to get whatever it is full-strength.

Another thing for cramps is a teaspoon of regular yellow mustard.

Try it and report back, please.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: GUEST,Ravenheart
Date: 28 Jan 09 - 03:49 PM

When they come, I find it helps to oppose the contraction--stretch away from the cramp, wherever it is.

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: GUEST,jlloydw
Date: 08 Feb 09 - 09:20 AM

I have been reading the postings: I find that when I eat bacon, the microvabable kind, I seem to have horrendous leg cramps at night. When I don't have it I am fine. What's that about?

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 08 Feb 09 - 09:32 AM

My older daughter used to become violently ill (hives, fever and body aches including muscle cramps) when she ate any product with sodium nitrate. Many pork based products in the US are loaded with sodium nitrate.
She later started having life threatening reactions to all sorts of foods in her early 20s. Sweet corn, bell peppers, cayenne pepper, gatorade, etc.

Take care not to eat items that cause such problems. I would advise that you get yourself to an allergist.

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: GUEST,wombat
Date: 17 Feb 09 - 08:23 PM

I find that I only get one restless leg at a time and if I position the "good" leg on top of the "bad" leg and fight the impulse to move the lower leg - that I can fall asleep. However, if I get RL during the day (usually when sitting for awhile) there is nothing that I can do but get up and move around. I have heard recently that there may be a link between restless leg and strokes - probably lack of circulation. I know there is a drug now, Requip, I believe. Anyone taking that? How does it work? I also get occasional cramps in my feet at night, or up my shin and much less frequently a groin cramp. Any suggestions for that, aside from the salt, magnesium and soap in the bed?

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: SINSULL
Date: 17 Feb 09 - 08:43 PM

I usually jump out of bed screaming "Oh Fuck" and walk it off on the cold bathroom floor. I don't get leg cramps often but am quite dramatic when I do. Drama also helps cure colds.
SINS

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: Little Hawk
Date: 18 Feb 09 - 12:37 AM

You're on the right track, SINSULL. Drama is the key. ;-) Here's another thing you can add to that...keep a loaded submachine gun by the bed, and when the cramp hits, leap out of bed, yell, "OH FUCK!" in the usual fashion, grab the tommy gun and blast off a hundred or so rounds at random in all directions, screaming at the top of your lungs like Stallone does when he goes berserk in those Rambo movies.

It works great.

You can thank Chongo for this bit of advice. That's what he does when he gets a bad cramp at night, only he yells "KREE-GAH! BUNDOLO GOMANGANI! RAAAAAAAAK!" and other stuff like that instead of "OH, FUCK!".

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: Will Fly
Date: 18 Feb 09 - 03:18 AM

One thing that's not been mentioned in this thread so far is the possibility that, in some cases, leg cramps are actually referred pain from some other back or leg problem - particularly sciatica - which may not be, at first, apparent.

Always wise, if you start to suffer from such cramps, to check with your doc in case there might be some underlying, but unknown, other cause. The solution may not be dietary.

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 03:11 PM

Somebody cut my legs off, Pullleeeaassseee.

Just came in from work, put my feet up on sofa cause legs and feet are all achey and twitchy and feel like they are going to explode. Why do they feel so full?

I can't stand being inside them. Exercise not helping.


AAARRRGGHHHH!!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 04:18 PM

help

Subject: Aquatic Handouts
From: wysiwyg
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 04:29 PM

B>Overused muscles (including muscles stood on all day or sat on all day) will cramp and twitch. The prevention is a hot soak with stretches.

If you did not prevent, a reliable emergency cramp-release is a wet, hot compress (washcloth or towel depending on size of cramped muscle), as hot as your skin can take, with a little pressure into the cramp.

For calves and toes, I've found it helps to stand for a moment or two (with or without the compress treatment) with my toes elevated. I've stood on books, pool noodles, blankets-- anything in reach to get me started toward the shower.

A hot shower stream directed on the stretching muscle also helps.


Athletically, muscle recovery is aided (and cramps prevented) with a hot-tub deep stretch of the affected muscles. More of them may need this than you first think when you get in. (Not mere hot tub SITS, but hot tub MOVES.)

Also athletically, muscles in development will get twitchy later that night, during the night, or over the next few days after they have made an advance in condition. It's not RLS, it's normal athletic development. Prevent/treat with active day-off movement, not duplicating the workout that produced it but moving the same muscle groups gently.

~Susan

Subject: Aquatic Handouts
From: wysiwyg
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 04:31 PM

Corrected post

Overused muscles (including muscles stood on all day or sat on all day) will cramp and twitch. The prevention is a hot soak with stretches.

If you did not prevent, a reliable emergency cramp-release is a wet, hot compress (washcloth or towel depending on size of cramped muscle), as hot as your skin can take, with a little pressure into the cramp.

For calves and toes, I've found it helps to stand for a moment or two (with or without the compress treatment) with my toes elevated. I've stood on books, pool noodles, blankets-- anything in reach to get me started toward the shower.

A hot shower stream directed on the stretching muscle also helps.


Athletically, muscle recovery is aided (and cramps prevented) with a hot-tub deep stretch of the affected muscles. More of them may need this than you first think when you get in. (Not mere hot tub SITS, but hot tub MOVES.)


Also athletically, muscles in development will get twitchy later that night, during the night, or over the next few days after they have made an advance in condition. It's not RLS, it's normal athletic development. Prevent/treat with active day-off movement, not duplicating the workout that produced it but moving the same muscle groups gently.

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: SINSULL
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 04:45 PM

Restless leg syndrome, Tam. Ask your doctor for help. For now limit alcohol and caffeine. Drink plenty of water.

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 04:54 PM

hi Susan

What's weird about this pain is the totality of legs affected. From top of iliac crest down into my toes, fronts, backs sides. Legs feel achy (not crampy) over full, cold, heavy and like they want to explode.

I thought it was circulatory.

I am pretty good about getting potassium and doing stretches to keep the muscle cramps at bay and doing stretches. I just did a little salt under the tongue trick that Peace advised in PM and they feel a bit better. I don't get much salt in my diet because of BP.

maybe it is only in my mind.

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: dwditty
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 05:03 PM

As noted above, it sounds ridiculous, but the bar of soap in the bed worked for me too. My doctor shook his head, but I don't care. You don't have a thing to lose by trying it...if it doesn't work, retrieve the soap and go take a shower.

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 05:04 PM

Mary

I drink up to 2 jugs of water a day. Rarely drink alcohol (last was half cider a month ago today) and 1 to 2 coffees a day.

Can you get too much potassium? I only ate plain anya potatoes yesterday

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 05:06 PM

where in the bed? how do you keep it from escaping?

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: dwditty
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 09:14 PM

Read about soap and leg cramps here

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: wysiwyg
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 10:02 PM

Gravity drains leg fluids down and gives exactly that feeling Tam, and it makes the muscle fibers so waterlogged they don't work right. Can you take a break mid-day to put your legs up (way up)? Athletes sometimes get on a bed, ass against wall and legs up against the wall, and read a book, to drain lactic acid (byproduct of workouts).

Sitting long periods can also trap leg fluids in the lower leg-- the veins on the backside of the knee/upper leg get compressed so flow back towards the heart is lessened.

Taking BP meds that add leg edema? Many do.... If so, it's time to tell the doc to try a new med or med combo. Or, you may need to explore compression stockings to help get the blood back up the leg towards the heart.

Not having DVT are you dear?

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: katlaughing
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 10:49 PM

Yes, you can get too much potassium, but probably not from diet only. It can be dangerous, so best to get it checked. Also, do an edema check: put your finger tip right on your shin and push in hard for a count of twenty. If the "dimple" stays and is slow to fill out, you have edema and should see your doc. I just went through this as an offshoot from pneumonia and other stuff. Also make sure you are getting enough magnesium and calcium; most likely you will need supplements for those.

Much as Susan has said, my doc explained to me, the fluid was hanging down around my lower legs, ankles and feet. As soon as I was in bed, it started sloshing around causing incredibly painful charley horses with me jumping out of bed, yelling and stomping to beat the band until it would settle down. They have settled down now, finally, but you have my sympathy. Not a fun thing to have happen.

Hope this helps.

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: Zany Mouse
Date: 04 Sep 09 - 01:59 PM

I have stages like this which last for a few weeks and then stop. I usually manage to scare them off with Tonic water. I don't know how it works but it does.

Blessings
Rhiannon

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 05 Sep 09 - 11:16 AM

Well the small bar of Bath & body warm vanilla sugar soap (prezzie I can't use as actual soap) is now tucked beneath the fitted sheet around ankle level. Not much relief the 1st night but last night was a lot better. Find I keep fiddling the bar around with my feet, expelling nervous energy and getting stretches in, which is good.

Realise that moon was coming to full the other night. I always feel bloody awful when it does. Like tides running backwards inside me.


aaaaaaaarrrrroooooooooooo

               __.....__
              .-'         '-.
            .'               '.
           /                   \
          /        |\           \
         ;        |V \_          ;
         |        |  ' \         ;
         ;        )   ,_\        |
         ;       /    |          ;
          \     /      \        /
           \    |       \      /
            '.   \       \   .'
              '-._|       \-'
                  | |\     |
          ________/ |_'.   /_____

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: GUEST,Partridge
Date: 05 Sep 09 - 04:13 PM

A soak in bath with epsom salts. Eat a banana and an orange once a day.

Pat

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: wysiwyg
Date: 05 Sep 09 - 04:35 PM

Tam,

I tuck a small pillow under my ankles so my feet are never flattened out when I lie down on my side or tummy. That has helped too.

Hopefully ALL these ideas will go along with you to a clinic visit?

Hint-hint,

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 05 Sep 09 - 05:23 PM

Hi Susan

Next rheumatoligst appointment is not until 1st December. I have to hang until then.

Won't go to GP again for the palpitations and constant night wakings due to feeling like my blood is trying reverse flow. Already had stress and 24 EKG. Nothing wrong with my heart.

Next time I go to GP will be for my flu shot. This month I hope. Last year they didn't notify me that the stock was in until after I already had flu. Took me 3 months to recover. After that extended flu is when the palpitaitions started.

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: wysiwyg
Date: 05 Sep 09 - 05:42 PM

;~) Fun!

Do try that pillow.

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 06 Sep 09 - 04:51 AM

No need even to reach down and pull the toes. Simply press the bottoms of the toes on the foot of the affected leg against the upper bedclothes, so that the toes are RAISED, & instant relief ensues. Forget who taught me that trick many years ago, but I have never known it to fail.

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: Rumncoke
Date: 06 Sep 09 - 05:09 AM

Something to consider might be not eating a meal late in the day - and also for similar reasons, treating or resolving constipation.

I used to get cramps when at folk festivals, and after trying all sorts of preventions, I stopped eating my main meal in the evening. No more cramps.

These were inner thigh cramps and really agonising.

I mentioned this to someone else and he said he got cramps towards the end of festivals when the weather was hot, due to the pong from the toilets putting him off using them, but the problem vanished at the first clean facility on the way home.

Anne Croucher

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: rich-joy
Date: 07 Sep 09 - 04:35 AM

As a few posters have mentioned (and surprisingly few at that!!), try MAGNESIUM - in the form of Magnesium Chloride oil, used transdermally, not ingested.
I cannot speak highly enough of this substance!!! (it has helped me amazingly - not only with cramps - it also reduced my annoying heart palpitations to almost nil (and assisted with other problems too) ....

Magnesium is soooo essential for the health and well-being of almost every part of a human being and yet probably the majority of Westerners have a Magnesium deficiency!!

Please take the time to check out a website called IMVA (International Medical Veritas Association) run by Dr Mark Sircus, for a veritable goldmine of great information and advice.

There is a link on it too, for the trans-dermal Magnesium Chloride (MgCl2) in the product called "Ancient Minerals" (it's called "oil" - but it's not "oily"!!)

Believe me, it works. Try It!

Cheers, R-J
Down Under

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: rich-joy
Date: 07 Sep 09 - 04:43 AM

sorry, here is the link to the Magnesium section of the afore-mentioned IMVA website :

http://www.magnesiumforlife.com/


R-J

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: GUEST,999
Date: 21 Dec 09 - 09:45 PM

"Nightime leg cramps"

My advice is not to have them at all. Of course, people rarely take free advice.

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 21 Dec 09 - 10:43 PM

Guest999 — best advice I have ever heard. Don't catch colds either; or let your appendix become infected; or or or — & above all, make sure you never die...

Then you'll be OK.

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 22 Dec 09 - 01:10 AM

I have had leg cramps that onset at 3 am and are agonizing. The only remedy for me is to get out of bed and amble around frantically in the dark like a madman.

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 22 Dec 09 - 01:50 AM

A few nights back I couldn't get to sleep from leg numbness & cramping. Not the muscle cramps where the "little mouse" pops out of the muscle & hurt like hell cos I avoid them now since my Dr told me to stretch in bed leading with my heels, never toes. I have near-constant pain in my knees & left hip, so getting a comfy sleeping spot is difficult & I often stretch my legs to get them comfortable, but I'm now almost paranoid in making sure my foot is 90degrees to ankle before stretching.

Back to Wed night - after about 2.5 house of wide-awake head, & numb tingly legs I got out of bed (again) & went on line. Both Mayo Clinic & another reputable (Govt) site said speak to Dr, none said go to Emergency dept. There are lots of conditions that cause the symptoms, and one piece of advice was to drink more water, & as I hadn't had a lot of water the previous day, I emptied my water bottle & went back to bed, & gradually my legs settled down & I went to sleep. I had about 3.5 hours sleep.

Later that day I was talking to a friend who is a Triage Nurse who said the previous day's hot weather, up to 36C (38C is 100F for those who use the old numbers), my walking in the sun on 2 occasions near the middle of the day, even tho I wore wrap-around sunnies, a broad-brimmed hat & hid under an umbrella, & lack of water was likely the cause. DRINK MORE WATER on hot days, she said.

sandra

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 22 Dec 09 - 01:53 AM

forgot to say my Dr doubled my Magnesium when she told me about the leg-stretching trick. I've been taking 1 tablet per day since the electrical system of my heart was playing up in 2006, now I take 2 each morning.

sandra

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 22 Dec 09 - 06:39 AM

Hip-ra — hip-ra — hip-ra

                      100

& it shall not 'cramp' my style!

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: Leadfingers
Date: 22 Dec 09 - 06:41 AM

Sympathy is all I can offer - NOT a problem I have , thankfully !

Oh Yes -- AND 100 !

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: Leadfingers
Date: 22 Dec 09 - 06:42 AM

OOPS ! Mike Pipped me

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 22 Dec 09 - 06:50 AM

Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho ·····

; ~)§

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: GUEST,Kendall
Date: 22 Dec 09 - 07:08 AM

Soap no longer works for me. Vinegar seems to help.

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: GUEST,999
Date: 22 Dec 09 - 10:35 PM

On occasions I have leg cramps I hobble to the can, get a towel under hot water and then get it on my affected leg. It helps, or at least seems to.

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 08 Jan 10 - 12:46 AM

When you get those leg cramps, (severe ones are also known as 'Charlie horses'), the moment you feel one coming on, point your foot up, and your heel down, as much as you can do that...they will instantly go away.
Sleep well
GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: GUEST,999
Date: 08 Jan 10 - 12:50 AM

GfS: I'll try that next time. Thank you.

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 08 Jan 10 - 02:17 AM

Meanwhile, as have suggested before, try to combine this motion with pressing undersides of toes against top sheet or bedfoot to raise them in relation to the instep - this helps greatly also.

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: Jeri
Date: 08 Jan 10 - 09:51 AM

I get them once in a while, or I used to. Stretching the muscle out helps, which is why GfS's and MtheGM's ideas work. The problem for me is that I can't do that indefinitely, and when I relax, the cramp is back... then the other leg starts up.

What helps head them off for me is to move the leg around, in all directions, even the ones that feel like they're going to hurt. If everything fails, I just get up and stand for a while. I think gravity helps get the blood through those spasming blood vessels.

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: GUEST,999
Date: 09 Jan 10 - 01:23 AM

Aye, there's the rub.

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 20 May 10 - 04:01 PM

Novo-gabapentin helps mine, but see your physician.

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 01 Jun 10 - 03:54 PM

any body know why I am suddenly getting hive like rash on lower legs only and only itches in evening. had it before, 2 months ago. lasted one month. cleared up and now it is back.

no changes to laundry stuff, body wash and lotions, or diet. Same furniture, cotton corduroy sofa.

Doc says it is just dermatitis. I say not. It only itches in the evening. Doc asks "stress?" I say, "No more than usual."

I think it is circulatory, because it happens almost as soon as I put my feet up n sofa. Also under the worst rash areas when there is rash I see bluish spider veins, which disappear when the rash calms down. Also when the hives some up, I have that arrgghh... restless leg acheyness. Like I cannot stand to be inside them.

Doc has not seen the rash when it is peaking. Just the after effect from my scratching. She doesn't listen when I say I think it circulatory.

Can circulation probs cause rash?

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: Carly
Date: 01 Jun 10 - 07:52 PM

Many years ago, an Asian friend, discovering that I suffered from cramps in my calf ("charlie horses") suggested this treatment. Place your thumb and forefinger of one hand each on one side of those two lines below your nose on your upper lip(this body part may have a name, but I do not know it) and pinch, hard. For about 9 seconds you just feel like a fool and then, magically, the muscles relax. Keep holding for a few more seconds. I assume this technique has to do with accupressure points; I really do not know why it works, but it works for me. Hope it helps you too.

Carly

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: LadyJean
Date: 02 Jun 10 - 02:02 AM

In my youth I was a Scottish highland dancer. My dancing teacher taught me the trick of putting my foot on something cold when I got a cramp. It works.
I find V8Juice works well for preventing them.

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: Little Hawk
Date: 02 Jun 10 - 02:30 PM

I have found the solution to nightime leg cramps!!!

Magnesium supplements.

I take Magnesium Citramate tablets that were suggested by my naturopath, 3 in the evening, 3 in the morning, and I have had no overnight leg cramps for about a year now, since starting the Magnesium supplements. Secondarily, it also helps if you drink lots of water every day.

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: katlaughing
Date: 02 Jun 10 - 02:40 PM

VTam, as I understand it you are concerned about the rash as much as cramps? Sounds like edema to me. Sometimes it can be rather subtle. It may not look as though you are retaining water, but if you do the "push" test, you can usually tell. Push down with your index finger or whatever is comfortable against your shin about halfway up from your ankle. Hold it in for 20 seconds. If your skin dimples and doesn't spring right back up, you have edema. It can cause a rash. It is common for it to get worse as the day goes on, esp. if your feet are down all day.

I just got over a bad case of edema caused by low protein and too much sodium; my legs and feet were very itchy, esp. near the end of the day. It was so severe I wound up with weeping sores. They are all cleared up thanks to my being vigilant in lying down 3-4 times per day, making sure my feet were ABOVE the level of my heart, for thirty minutes or so AND treating the itching, open sores with a product called Amerigel (you can find it on google). I saw my doc today for the first time in a month and called it a miracle. She was amazed at how much better I am, in fact, my legs are basically "normal" now with no sores, etc.

I don't know if you can get it over there, but a cream which also helps with the itching is Benadryl, basic antihistamine. I didn't even know they made a cream, but boy, does it help!

I wish you could find a doc who would honour your intuition about YOUR body. You may be spot on about the circulation; that could certainly cause edema.

Hope this helps.

kat

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: katlaughing
Date: 02 Jun 10 - 02:43 PM

Forgot to say, LH is right about the magnesium. I had a terrible time with leg cramps last summer. Through bloodwork, we had to fine tune my levels of calcium, magnesium, and I cannot remember what else. I take one mag. at night and one calcium in the morning. Also drink plenty of water to help flush out sodium, etc.

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 02 Jun 10 - 04:30 PM

Hi Kat and LH

I am on very low sodium... luckily I don't like salt very much. Rarely have processed foods. None in my breakfast cereal either.

I do drink loads of water, do special Achilles stretches for arthritis in feet and ankles so severe cramps are rare.

Defo got that edema though. I work full time and even though there is a first aid room with padded table, I can't take long breaks like that.

Will push the circulation thing next time I see doc.

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: Little Hawk
Date: 27 Sep 10 - 10:02 AM

The daily supplement of magnesium citramate has proven to be the perfect cure for me...plus adequate hydration. What a relief!

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 27 Sep 10 - 10:14 AM

I tend to get mine in patterns sometimes I seem to be more prone to cramps than other times like if I am under the weather or sickening for a cold or flu symptoms. If I have been having a bout of cramps what works for me is to keep my calves, knees and ankles from getting too chilled wrapping with long thick socks and keeping my feet snug to stop them locking doing this for as long as I need to. Instead of having putting cold flat sheets on my bed I swap them for the fluffy flannelette kind in the colder seasons.

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: olddude
Date: 06 Nov 10 - 03:55 PM

Make sure it is not a disk in your back, the pain will run down your leg and trust me sleep is something you won't get ... Leg pain can be a cramp or it can be much more serious from clots to disk problems in the lower back ... go to the doc for sure

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: mayomick
Date: 08 Jan 11 - 04:02 PM

I've suffered from painful cramps pretty regularly at nights for years , but have noticed that I haven't been afflicted since the recent onset of ice and snow . The pavements around here have been like ice rinks which forces me to walk around cautiously with my achilles tendons tensed up .

I did have a problem with twitchy calf muscles two years ago and was very worried about it - hypochondriac that I am. The doctor referred me to a physiotherapist who said that the problem probably came from my achilles tendons being too relaxed . The simple exercises she gave me cured the twitchy muscles . Now I wonder if cramps might also be caused by over relaxed achilles tendons . The exercises consisted of keeping my heel pressed to the floor while raising the rest of my feet which has the effect of tensing up the achilles tendons.

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: kendall
Date: 18 Jan 11 - 09:16 AM

Bananas have magnesium don't they?

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: maeve
Date: 18 Jan 11 - 09:57 AM

Yes they do, Kendall.

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 30 Nov 11 - 01:00 AM

-those two lines below your nose on your upper lip(this body part may have a name, but I do not know it) --- Carly 1 Jun 10

BLTN ~ that crease is called the septum.

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: kendall
Date: 30 Nov 11 - 08:04 AM

My ENT tells me I have a deviated septum. The wall between my nostrils was damaged by a baseball when I was a boy.

I wondered why it was getting bigger; then, it hit me.

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 30 Nov 11 - 11:17 AM

1 - i'm at an age now when I'm experiencing more uncomfortable sensations in my legs..
don't know if it's just related to inevitable age & declining fitness;
or side effects of blood pressure / cholesterol tablets..

or any factor in combination


2 - going off on the nose deviation...

mine got broke 2 or 3 times when I was a kid growing up in a small provincial southwest UK town.

all my adult life I've suffered breathing/sinus/inner ear problems
and am on daily steroid nasal spray and anti histamines
to try to keep it in check.

Specialist Dr says I could have an operation to straighten out
my interior nasal bones to clear blocked air passages..

BUT

there's a small but real chance the middle of my nose could wither and drop out
leaving me looking like a severest abject coke addict !!!???

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 30 Nov 11 - 03:00 PM

I should see your doctor about your discomfort in your legs. It could be sclerosis. If it's the statins, there are several to choose from and your doc. might change the type for you. Regarding your nose op, it may be better to go ahead as you're suffering a lot from breathing and sinus problems. Plastic surgery(in the worst case scenario) could rectify any disappointing results. So sorry you're below par, punkfolkrocker. Best wishes to you.

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: gnu
Date: 30 Nov 11 - 04:06 PM

Punky... "Specialist Dr says I could have an operation to straighten out my interior nasal bones to clear blocked air passages...

Nasal concha... turbinates... YUP! Had it done June 2. GO FOR IT!

If you were a member we could PM and I could tell you about what to expect. Then again, might be more "fun" for you to experience it. A few weeks after the operation, I had to pull my truck over to the side of the road and yell, "Holy FUCK!" after I blew my nose while driving slowly in a residential neighbourhood.

But, I can BREATHE for the first time in yeeeears. And, yes, being able to sleep well is a godsend.

And, yes, your symtoms can be related to high BP but also to smokng and if ya got both... go for the slice and dice ASAP.

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: Jeri
Date: 30 Nov 11 - 05:01 PM

I used to know what the little ditch under one's nose, between it and the upper lip was called. I didn't often use the term and so forgot it. The septum though, is that piece of cartilage and tissue that separates the nostrils.

Get the surgery. I had constant, painful sinus infections, polyps and a nose that slammed shut whenever I had a cold. I had a deviated septum fixed and new drainage holes put in my sinuses. I haven't had a sinus infection of polyp since and I can usual breathe during a cold. The surgery made a huge change in my life.

Cholesterol tablets, "statins" can cause leg pain. It can be serious and so you should discuss it with your doctor. I had some problems which were alleviated by taking CoQ-10 (co-enzyme Q-10, AKA "ubiquinone") and that helped in a big way, but you should talk to your doctor.

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: kendall
Date: 01 Dec 11 - 01:07 PM

COQ10 really does help. So does a banana a day and orange juice.

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: GUEST,Wesley S
Date: 01 Dec 11 - 02:27 PM

So does a daily glass of tonic water with quinine. What else you add to it is up to you.

And during the cramps I take a large spoonful of yellow mustard. It seems to help shorten the duration of the cramp.

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: gnu
Date: 01 Dec 11 - 03:11 PM

"a large spoonful of yellow mustard" might give ya cramps in the guts?

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: Dorothy Parshall
Date: 01 Dec 11 - 05:44 PM

WE just take powdered magnesium by the 1/4 spoonful a couple times a day. Do google "magnesium deficiency". There is a two page quiz to determine if you are deficient. I had terrible pain in right hip and knee in August - totally cured now; improved greatly in first week of mag therapy. Nasty mood swings disappeared. Also completely eliminated nighttime leg cramps - as long as I remember to take it. An extra 200- 400 mg/day. I feel SO much better! I cannot eat bananas. One symptom of mag def is high BP. Too much = low BP. Also diarrhea.   

I take no prescription drugs.

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: gnu
Date: 20 Dec 15 - 02:44 PM

Anything to add to the previous posts?

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: Wesley S
Date: 20 Dec 15 - 11:37 PM

No. Just that I still get them from time to time. Early this morning as a matter of fact.

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Dec 15 - 03:28 AM

When I worked down the pit, we had saline orange juice as we came through into the baths. A few of the older men who had stopped working where it was so hot to lighter duties elsewhere (and therefore not needing the drink) used to complain of cramps in the night that went away if they went back to having the drink. I remember the arguments when the GP advising the colliery medical centre told them not to allow these men the drink as their salt levels would be too high if they aren't sweating it off.

A couple of years later, medical opinion was to not give it to us either but carried it on without the salt to encourage plenty of liquid intake.

That may be placebo, may be something in it. Scanning up the thread, Frog Prince asked if placebo can work when you know it to be placebo. Medical trials seem to dictate that it does. In fact, vetinary trials as well as early trials on destined to be human medicines carried out on animals have a similar 20% placebo success. Spooky.

One old wives tale my sister told me when I complained of such cramps was not to drink so much coffee. Dunno where she got it from.

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 21 Dec 15 - 03:57 AM

" ... i'm at an age now when I'm experiencing more uncomfortable sensations in my legs..
don't know if it's just related to inevitable age & declining fitness;..."

Me too! I woke up one night, a few months back, with the most excruciating pain in my left leg. I've not experienced anything quite so bad since but I seemed to be getting persistent, low-level pain around my knees and sometimes my hips. I read somewhere that as a person gets older his/her walking gait changes. There's a tendency for the feet to sort of splay outwards and that puts a strain on the knees and hips. I looked at my shoes and, sure enough, the outer parts of the heels - towards the back - were very worn. I did a bit of investigation and found that you can buy (over the counter in your local pharmacist) some shoe inserts which correct your gait. I bought some and they seem to be working so far - a lot less leg pain.

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Dec 15 - 04:23 AM

Had them all my life from about six - have recently come back.
The advantage of having them long-term is that you become aware when they're coming on and learn to shift into a position that will avoid them - works as an alarm clock sometimes and wakes me up (often just in time)
Just goes to show - your body never hardens up where and when you want it to!
Jim Carroll