I walked out of session

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: Seamus Kennedy
Date: 05 Jan 07 - 03:55 PM

WLD - "or shove it up your bum as part of circus act -"

Oh, you've seen the Aristocrats, then.

Seamus

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: number 6
Date: 05 Jan 07 - 12:41 PM

"Was that for the criminal record that you made Kendall??"

... breach of contract ... not fulfilling an obligatory contract to perform.

just joking ... just trying to add some humour to the situation.

ok ... I'm outta here.

biLL

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 05 Jan 07 - 12:35 PM

only one terrible thing happened . I got burgled, they stole my car keys and drove my car off.

today I went to the salvage yard and said, can I have a look at my car. he said, sure and ten minutes later dumped it at my feet on a fork lift.

I really liked that car.

I know the situation. One night in Belper last year, this guy was embarking on a long ballad. The barmaid comes up from behind the bar, and starts playing a very noisy fruit machine about two foot way from him.

how we laughed.....

I mean, it does go with the territory just a bit. these experiences are hardly unexpected.

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: An Buachaill Caol Dubh
Date: 05 Jan 07 - 09:51 AM

I'd love to have been in the pub with the dogs all barking.

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: Paul Burke
Date: 05 Jan 07 - 09:34 AM

It seems that every time I mention the B word, something terrible happens to WLD. If I say it's only going to be a very little session, maybe something merely dismaying will happen, but I'll keep quiet nonetheless.

jacqui has got it about right- I remember one awful night when some promoter had decided to do a crossover night- avant-garde jazz and Nic Jones (that's how long ago it was). The jazz lot weren't interested and kept on yammering right through his two sets. He wasn't at all happy, but his playing and singing never faltered a bit, and we who were listening crowded close so we could hear. That contrasted with the reverential silence for the obligatory 25 minute drum solo in the jazz bit.

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: jacqui.c
Date: 05 Jan 07 - 09:23 AM

WLD - Kendall, as has been explained, was replying to the original poster who was involved in a session, not entertaining for money. In that situation, and given the same provocation, I would do the same thing. We take part in sessions for the love of the music and the pleasure that being part of a group like that brings. There is no pleasure in trying to perform against a backdrop of noise and, for the majority of us, no need to have to put up with it. There are a few who are so desperate to be heard that they will keep going even when it is patently obvious that they are not wanted, as appears to be the case in Shaneo's post. Those are the ones that Kendall was talking about.

Playing for a living is different. One is being paid a fee for doing the job, whether or not the audience is really interested. Kendall was a paid performer, and from what I have heard, a good one and I'm sure that there were occasions when he had to battle the din in one way or another. That's what being professional is all about.

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 05 Jan 07 - 09:11 AM

no, the night boozing at Bonsall sounded good. I've had another shit day - looking at my car in a salvage yard after thieves had finished with it.

i've got to admit I did feel a twinge of sympathy for Clinton.

Whether you play the dowie dens of Yarrow, Doh a deer-a female deer, or shove it up your bum as part of circus act - earning a living from the guitar is a tough proposition.

then some guy comes on and tells you you have been wasting your talent on vapid ephemera - I bet he was incandescent with rage. I know I should have been at one point.

still as I say, he has been around the folkscene a long time, so he should be prepared for what some folkies think of us vulgar minstrels. and not descend to rudeness. they know not of what they speak, and its not really their fault.

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: jacqui.c
Date: 05 Jan 07 - 08:40 AM

LOL.

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Jan 07 - 08:22 AM

Was that for the criminal record that you made Kendall??

Only joking. Just couldn't resist it.

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: kendall
Date: 05 Jan 07 - 07:45 AM

A few years ago I went to court and the judge announced, "If you have a cell phone, turn it off now. If it rings during these proceedings you will be held in contempt." nuff said.

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Jan 07 - 04:48 AM

What? The record?

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 05 Jan 07 - 04:46 AM

sounds very good!

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Jan 07 - 04:31 AM

Who holds the record for walking out of the most sessions?

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: Paul Burke
Date: 05 Jan 07 - 04:27 AM

We've come a long way from the original problem. I'm used to Irish sessions- you don't expect the punters to shut up, but if the landlord leaves the jukebox or telly running, it's time to find a new venue. In one recently, the problem wasn't the pub, but the number of dogs in the room, all barking competitively.

Similarly, the local session/ folk club is in the one and only bar in the pub, and can be rowdy. But the non- folkies are often very good, and will shut up if someone's doing a quiet spot. It helps that the landlord is one of us(*). On the other hand, I remember (more than one) folk club accessed by a windy stair through stygian gloom, ending in a cavernous ballroom, hardly heated and with about five people inside. Quiet, but all the excitement of a midnight vigil on a monastic retreat.

(*) WLD- if you fancy a trip out tonight, I'll be there, if affected by drink. Probably won't get Yellow Ribbon, but She Taught Me To Yodel is a distinct possibility.

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: GUEST,Captain Ginger
Date: 05 Jan 07 - 03:17 AM

Trouble is, with some monologues I dream of a telephone ringing! They are very much an acquired taste and are usually the prompt for me to walk out of a session (quietly and politely of course) and head for the bar. Give me music any day. As I used to tell punters in the days when I got paid for making a public spectacle, "Amazing how cheap potent music is!"

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Jan 07 - 03:14 AM

Cadence interruptis?

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 05 Jan 07 - 02:35 AM

the royal 'we'.....everybody's king for a moment, when they hold the stage.

at my local folk club about six weeks ago, we had a guy absolutely incensed because a mobile phone went off when he was at the climax of a momologue. I mean really angry, we haven't seen him since.

I expect he'll get over it eventually.

Traumatic for him though....sort of audience coitus interruptus.

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: Sorcha
Date: 04 Jan 07 - 10:24 PM

We. I. Two different things.

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: kendall
Date: 04 Jan 07 - 10:14 PM

I'm speaking for myself and every other performer I know.

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: Sorcha
Date: 04 Jan 07 - 09:23 PM

We are? We do? It does? Guess I should clue a few of my friends in about that then.

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: kendall
Date: 04 Jan 07 - 09:20 PM

On top of that, we performers tend to be somewhat brittle and quick to anger when we are invalidated or insulted. I guess it goes with the territory.

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 04 Jan 07 - 06:00 PM

no shit storm. I've been around the folkscene long enough to know the score. and to be honest - so has Clinton. he could hardly have been surprised about what you said, so the outrage is a bit drama-queenish.

I don't know his gig, but I can understand some of his annoyance at what some people here have said about showbiz footsoldiers.. it's a strange calling, and we tend to be rather proud of our profession and love swapping war stories with each other.

finding a nice room for folk music is a bit of a nightmare. you find somewhere and the landlord changes and wants you out, but doesn't have the sensitivity to tell you. so he acts like a sod. if you've run one or two folk clubs, you've bought the t-shirt, and in it travelled to hell and back.

also some people are just ignorant. they think live singers are just like the telly, and will continue impervious of whatever nonsense is going on. theres a technical term for these people.......it escapes me at the moment.

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: Jim Lad
Date: 04 Jan 07 - 04:12 PM

So, you walked out of the room. Sounds to me like this wasn't a paid gig and the management, who presumably were being paid, were simply acting in the interest of their clientele. So, the next logical step is to come to a financial arrangement.
Just be sure the bartender turns the T.V. off before you pay him though.

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: kendall
Date: 04 Jan 07 - 04:06 PM

I'm not saying that song has no value, obviously it does. But, in my opinion, it is NOT a folksong.That's all I said, and it started a shit storm.

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 04 Jan 07 - 03:50 PM

Sorry if that last post seems insulting - not meant to. I'm sure what you do kendall is terrific.

its just that the power of simple songs is something very weird.

that Noel Coward line the 'potency of of cheap music'.

sorry about the typos - due to best somerset cider, and good company!

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 04 Jan 07 - 03:39 PM

Its not a case of liking it. I don't like Green Fields of France much, but I recognise it has a lot of deep resonances for some people. And if you don't know - so does Tie a Yellow Ribbon. If you've never done a gig for someone conig out of clink, and you've stayed in the 100 acre wood of the folk clubs , you won't know that.

But pleaese take my word, it is so.

there is a world out there where folksongs have to relate to folks.

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: number 6
Date: 04 Jan 07 - 12:02 PM

Sadly ... politeness is becoming a 'thing of the past'

and yes Al.. "There is too much rudeness about. we should all be more caring of the feelings of others"

biLL

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: kendall
Date: 04 Jan 07 - 11:50 AM

We all have opinions. One of mine is, Tie a yellow ribbon is not a folk song. And I have never insulted anyone for liking any particular song.

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 04 Jan 07 - 07:17 AM

Bit sad that this has been a bone of contention - I've just skimmed through the whole thread, having come across the crackdown thread. And really we're all on the side of the angels. We all play music.

Some people are lucky enough to be acknowledged as masters of their art and whenever they start singing they attract an uncritical, adoring, fee paying audience.

Now some of us have decided making what we're going to do to make money. we say to ourselves, a load of noisy fools isn't going to decide my career choice, and I will do the gig make the money - buy the guitar that I want - and a certain percentage of my gigs will be like that. I lived my professional life like that - and it sounds as though Clinton still does.

I used to envy the guys who get the nice polite audiences. the really successful ones like Ralph McTell and Martin Carthy make a lot more money than I ever did - even in the year I had a hit record.

However in time I got to see that I was the lucky one. I met real people and played real folk music. I got to see that songs like Tie a Yellow Ribbon are indeed folksongs. they have a place in the hearts and minds of the people in the way that tales of the press gang and the cannonball don't. look how the yellow ribbons come out when there is national hostage situation. Look how many people there are confined in our penal system who have this song played when they are reunited with loved ones.

But if you do these gigs - being sneered at, goes with territory. Perhaps Clinton had a right not to encounter it on Mudcat, but he's old enough to know that its going to be there.

Some people don't make money, they just sing folksongs for fun, and I'm sorry, it sounds like the guy intitiating this thread encountered rudeness in this situation.

There is too much rudeness about. we should all be more caring of the feelings of others

Happy New Year to all

Big Al Whittle

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: kendall
Date: 03 Jan 07 - 07:53 AM

Guest, I agree. I'd much rather play for free. No pressure.

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: GUEST,sessionwatch
Date: 03 Jan 07 - 06:47 AM

Imagine if all of those who walked out of a session got together and started a session of their own. How long would it be before someone decided that it wasn't being conducted along the lines that they thought it should and ..........walked out?

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: stallion
Date: 03 Jan 07 - 05:28 AM

Steve Thompson (Ex Buttermountain Boys) tells a great tale of the Wilson's looking for a bar to sing in during one Cleethorpes folk festival, all the regular pubs being heaving, went into a "Fishermans bar", sat the largest of them on the Juke box and started singing, I think Steve said no one tried to put money in the Juke box.

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Jan 07 - 11:32 PM

I'd really rather play for free.

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 02 Jan 07 - 09:20 PM

Anti-arrogance, that was not manslaughter, but pesticide!

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: kendall
Date: 02 Jan 07 - 05:17 PM

It just crossed my mind that I should have mentioned the situation that I was talking about when I said people who are so needy that they have to play where they are not respected.
Many years ago a young man asked me if it would be a good idea if he should ask the restaurant owner to let him play there, and to OFFER TO PAY HIM FOR THE PRIVILEGE! That was what I meant by pathetic. It was not about you know who, but he thought it was.

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 22 Dec 06 - 07:09 PM

GUEST,Anti Arrogance

"I am pretty well known in my area and am asked to attend every folk club around. I try to support each one as I get time. The two newcomers are good musicians (I actually love their music) but unknown in this area."

Why not suggest to these guys that this is not the only session in the world... :-)

Re:
jacqui.c Date: 20 Dec 06 - 10:29 AM above...

Sigh!....

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: GUEST,Anti Arrogance
Date: 22 Dec 06 - 11:55 AM

Scrump - thanks a lot!
Today I took your last advice and hit him with a friends Telecaster. I am now in the local nick awaitimg manslaughter charges. My ex-telecaster owning friend is sueing me for a new guitar and stress for losing his treasured 1969 'axe'. My wife and kids have moved out in case my rage manifests itself in the home.
They say I may be out to celebrate New Year - 2020.
L.O.L.

Cheers everyone and I hope you are all 'out' for New Year 2006/7

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: Scrump
Date: 22 Dec 06 - 08:37 AM

Yes, it's a bit easier to switch off a telly than a loud-mouthed arrogant gobshite, without of course breaking the law by whacking him over the head with a heavy implement.

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: GUEST,Anti Arrogance
Date: 22 Dec 06 - 07:08 AM

Guest - No problem with a TV!

You seem to have a problem with memory (or civility).

Maybe you sit in front of your PC too much and have forgotten how to interact with people!

To all others on this thread (and Guest) MERRY CHRISTMAS.LOL

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Dec 06 - 06:43 AM

Greetings down under.

You should get yourself over here and show AA how it's done.

Seasons Greetings from the Ould Country.

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: GUEST,fluiuteadoir
Date: 21 Dec 06 - 10:29 AM

but enough about you Northern hemisphere aggrandists, let's talk about me !!

Or at least our session here in Brisbane. yes, the Queensland Irish Association, Wednesday nights. As the foundation irish instituion in these sub-tropical parts, do they turn off the footie, baseball, Monster truck races ? of course not that would offend the punters.

so last night in a porter fog I dared the barman Leo ( good man , leo, free pints to meself, and a ready smile, unlike the other automatons who haven't a clue about session bonhomie and joie de vivre - I dared leo to turn the teev off. God he just walked over and killed it. Oh i cheered. For 2 years since the inception of the session, everyone had been too shit-scared to even think of suggesting this, but it was so easy in the end

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: GUEST,Anti Arrogance
Date: 21 Dec 06 - 10:10 AM

Yeah Scrump that Guest was me - sorry, forgot to put name on.

All the best folks - must go now to prepare family shopping trips etc.

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: jacqui.c
Date: 21 Dec 06 - 09:18 AM

AA - if talking over him stops him attending for a couple of weeks just keep doing it. Maybe then he'll get the message. If you can get others involved as well that would reinforce the 'we don't like your behaviour - go away'!

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: Scrump
Date: 21 Dec 06 - 06:40 AM

I'm assuming the last GUEST is AA? If so, and you have enough other places to go in your area, then fine. Voting with your feet might just be the best way.

Season's Greetings to you too and all the best for 2007! Let's hope your club will be PITA free.

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Dec 06 - 06:30 AM

Yeah Scrump (and others)
All good ideas but as has been picked up by yourselves, the organiser is very weak. Most of us think he would like an excuse to wrap up this venue as he arrives later and later every week hoping someone else has already kicked the evening off. I have done so a few times but most of us have other committments so do not want to 'take over' the running of this event. This may seem like a get-out to some of you but over the years I have run and assisted in the running of around five 'clubs' and now I want to be free to go where I want and not be tied. I appreciate the time and dedication it needs to run any function on a regular basis so do not want to criticise the organiser too much.
As I stated before, I have thought about talking over him but too many years of giving 'order' is now a habit hard to break.
Incidently, he has been challenged many time in the past and just treats it as a joke until someone talks whilst he is performing! He'll stop attending for two weeks and then turns up again as bad as before.
We'll see what the New Year brings.
Thanks all and Merry Xmas - may you all get the respect you deserve!

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: Scrump
Date: 21 Dec 06 - 05:56 AM

AA, it's all very well to stop attending, but why should you? It may be that there are limited venues in your area - maybe not in your case, but I'm thinking of others in different parts of the country who may not have much choice, and the decision to stop going along might mean more or less giving up sessions entirely. I certainly would not want to stop attending the sessions and clubs I go to regularly, as I would have to travel a lot further afield to find other ones.

It sounds as if the session organiser has an equivocal relationship with the 'local' (this is the major PITA if I understand correctly) - unless I've misunderstood you, the organiser tries to put off the PITA from attending, as he knows it stops others from coming, yet he plays in a band with him. It sounds as if he is not functioning properly as an organiser, as he seems to be letting the fact that the PITA is a bandmate prevent him from telling him how to behave at these sessions. (Ooerr! I also play in a band with the organiser of my local folk club... it couldn't be, could it?! But then I don't talk over people so I guess I'm in the clear!)

Maybe you should try to have a word with the organiser, explaining that you are personally aware that some people have stopped attending because of the PITA's attitude, and something needs to be said to him. The organiser must grasp that nettle, even if he does play in a band with the guy.

It sounds as if you're not alone in disliking the PITA's attitude, so maybe you need to get together with other like-minded people there and organise a campaign along the lines already outlined - talking over him while performing, etc. It would be sad if it came to that, so it would be better if you could get the organiser to resolve it first, if this is at all possible.

You could suggest that the organiser makes a general announcement at the start of the next session (if done early in 2007 it could be a 'new year resolution' for the session) to the effect that attendees are expected to keep quiet during performances out of respect for the performers. This could then be done without making it obvious he is 'getting at' the PITA personally. Then of course if the PITA persists with his antisocial behaviour, the organiser would be able to remind him how he is expected to behave.

If it doesn't work then put Plan B into operation (retaliation by talking over him), and failing that, a kick in the b******s usually gets the desired results.

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: Seamus Kennedy
Date: 21 Dec 06 - 12:11 AM

How about something like stopping in the middle of your songs while they are talking, and staring at them.
When they look up to see why you've stopped, simply say "If you'll be quiet during my songs, I promise I'll be quiet during yours."

Of course, I'm a full time professional entertainer with over 30 years of performing under my belt, so I'd probably humiliate the bastard before telling him to shut the fuck up or get out. Nicely.

Seamus

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: number 6
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 08:55 PM

Exactly Kendall, exactly.

biLL

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: Gulliver
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 07:45 PM

In which case I wouldn't walk--I would RUN!

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: kendall
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 07:15 PM

When I leave a venue that is irritating me, it doesn't matter to me that I won't be missed. It's not about THEM...it's about ME.