Mingulay Boat Song's Minch ???

Subject: RE: Mingulay Boat Song's Minch ???
From: Pete M
Date: 19 Apr 99 - 04:23 PM

Bravo Steve! how did I miss that? might have something to do with lack of sleep, but more likely sheer stupidity.

Pete M

Subject: RE: Mingulay Boat Song's Minch ???
From: Philippa
Date: 04 Jun 99 - 11:15 AM

The following information of Mingulay is from Ben Buxton. "Mingulay: an Island and Its People". Birlinn, Edinburgh, 1995

p. 33
"A large number of the place names in the Barra isles are of Norse origin (or are compound Norse-Gaelic), as are the names of the islands themselves. The name Mingulay is thought to derive from the Old Norse 'mikil', meaning big, and 'ay', meaning island. In Gaelic i is 'Miughalaigh', pronounced something like 'me-ul-eye', or 'Miùghalaigh', which accounts for the form 'Mewla' given in a 17th century source. [anon 1620 in J L Campbell, ed, "The Book of Barra", 1936, p 44] Monro's version of 1549 - Megaly - is the earliest known; Martin Martin, 1695, gives 'Micklay'. The current spelling and pronuciation in English has drifed further from the Gaelic than in other cases, possibly because of the various forms used by early writers and map makers."

p. 47-48

"Mingulay's most famous song - outside Barra and Vatersay that is - is "The Mingulay Boat Song'. But neither the words nor the melody originate anywhere near Mingulay; it is a romantic invention of the 20th century. It was devised in 1938 by Glasgow-born Sir Hugh Roberton, who was very fond of the melody of 'Creag Ghuanach', a song from Lochaber, which celebrates a crag near Loch Treig. He needed a sea shanty, and so he adapted the music, chose the romantic name Mingulay, and composed the words. It was to be sung in F, slowly and rhythmically. [Roberton Publications, personal information; Derek Cooper. "The Road to Mingulay: a View of he Western Isles", London, 1985]…

"It is ironic that this song should be the only well-known song associated with the island, and, for many, the only reason they have heard the name Mingulay at all. "

In his appendix, Buxton publishes two real Mingulay songs, in Gaelic with Englsh translations: 'Oran do Dh'Eilean Mhiulaidh' /'Song to the Isle of Mingulay' and 'Turas Nèll a Mhiùghlaigh'/ 'Neil's Trip to Mingulay'

I repeat my earlier statement that I know of no evidence of a connecton between the names 'Mingulay' and 'Minch'. There are many islands in the Minch. Though there is Johnson's theory of a similar Norse derivation for Minch (see John Nolan's 18 Apr posting). In Skye there is a place called 'Minginish', which supposedly has the same meaning as Mingulay, 'inis' or 'inish' being the Gaelic equivalent of the Norse 'aigh' or 'ey' for 'island'.

Subject: RE: Mingulay Boat Song's Minch ???
From: Frank of Toledo
Date: 04 Jun 99 - 11:40 AM

On Saturday the 22nd of May I held a concert here in Toledo, Oregon with a young trio "Casey Neill Trio". They closed a very good show with the "Mingulay Boat Song",and they mentioned that they learned the song, or their version, from Al Capolla on the Hudson river Sloop Clearwater (PS). It is on their recent CD "SKREE'. on Appleseed Recordings......

Subject: RE: Mingulay Boat Song's Minch ???
From: Philippa
Date: 15 Jun 99 - 07:13 PM

The Gaelic for the Minch is "an Cuan Sgith", the winged (wing shaped, I suppose) sea. I think this lends creedance to the theory advanced in this thread that Minch is related to 'manche' or 'mancha'in Romance languages, meaning sleeve.

Subject: RE: Mingulay Boat Song's Minch ???
From: Alice
Date: 19 Feb 01 - 01:26 PM

As I was singing this song last night with a bunch of friends, I was thinking of this old thread. No matter if we Montanan's pronounce it correctly, it certainly is a great one to gather harmonies of different voices together. An old favorite here.

Subject: RE: Mingulay Boat Song's Minch ???
From:
Date: 19 Feb 01 - 01:48 PM

What a fascinating discussion on one song! Very few versions exist on MP3 but you can listen to my version at www.mp3.com/docwood.

Subject: RE: Mingulay Boat Song's Minch ???
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 19 Feb 01 - 02:04 PM

you can get my version from my web page too!

;-)

Subject: RE: Mingulay Boat Song's Minch ???
From: Wotcha
Date: 19 Feb 01 - 04:26 PM

Too bad that Philip Caputo didn't read this thread before he penned his book "The Voyage." Check out the first chapter describing the Mingulay Boat Song as "the ancient chantey" (being sung about 1900 in the relevant scene). Sort of spoiled the start of this fine novel ...
Cheers,
Brian

Subject: RE: Mingulay Boat Song's Minch ???
From: Dez Yello
Date: 23 Oct 02 - 08:38 PM

Back in 1984 I was singing this song in a group in the Manchester area, we could only find the opening verse and the Wive's are waiting verse. So myself and group member Paul Whitehill wrote this verse as we thought at the time only two verse was too short a song. This verse was recorded by then South Wales based shanty group Motley Crew now Baggyrinkle in the late eighties. I still use this verse when I sing the song.

Bairns are waitin' by the fireside
In the cradle rocking gently
There's a candle in the window
Ere the men return to Mingulay.

Hope this might be of use to any of you out there.

Subject: RE: Mingulay Boat Song's Minch ???
From: David Ingerson
Date: 02 Dec 02 - 04:33 PM

This is an illuminating thread. Thanks for all the contributions, agus go raimh mile maith agat, a Philippa, for your reaearch and authoritative posts.

Apparently no one in Portland's song circle has read it, for we still repeat our bit of folk mythology about it for newcomers--that this is the only surviving bit of (presumably ancient) culture from the island, whose population had been wiped out by disease. How romantic! I will correct that notion next time it's sung here!

By the way, I had been singing the song for many years before I saw a deeper layer of meaning there for me: If you want to get "home", you have to turn and "face the weather."

David

Subject: RE: Mingulay Boat Song's Minch ???
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 11 Jan 03 - 08:25 AM

Going back to 17 Mar 99 where rich r asked about the supernatural powers of the owl, has anyone any more info about this earlier song. One of my friends was asking about it last night & I said I'd check Mudcat.

extract from Rich's post -
"Norman Kennedy states that the song was originally about the supernatural powers of an owl, but when the singers of the Hebrides became embarrassed by such ideas, they ceased to sing those words."

sandra

Subject: RE: Mingulay Boat Song's Minch ???
From: Strupag
Date: 11 Jan 03 - 10:38 AM

As someone who lives by repairing gear on the boats that fish in the Minch I would like to point out, just to be geographically correct, The Minch is the stretch of sea beetween the Scottish mainland going as far south as Ardnamurchan and as far north as Cape Wrath.
We ofter refer to North Minch and South Minch. Skye, being close to the mainland is on the mainland side of the minch.
Aye, there's not much going on in Mingulay these days but Eriskay (of Eriskay Love Lilt fame) now has a causway joining it to the Uists
and some people are moving back to the island as it is possible for them to commute now. They have a few good boats there and are doing all right.
As to the origins of the word Minch: I'm off to work on a boat here in Skye and I'll ask around. I'll be back
Cheeridh an drasda

Subject: RE: Mingulay Boat Song's Minch ???
From: Strupag
Date: 11 Jan 03 - 12:26 PM

OK Thanks for waiting. I've just been down to
Portree Pier and started a discussion with local fishermen about as long as this one as to the origins of the word Minch.
Most of these guys were native gaelic speakers and we are all convinced that it is not a gaelic word.
As someone said earlier, many of the place names around these parts and on the north west mainland coast are of Norse origin and it is suspected that it's a Norse word. Mingulay, as with all island ending in the ay sound is almost certainly a norse word.
Interesting to hear that the song was actually written by Hugh Roberton. I've heard a gaelic version sung many years ago by a Barra man.He used the same tune but with a much faster beat.
Could it be that Hugh did a "Marjory Kennedy Frazer" and took up an old traditional song and "anglisized" it.

Subject: RE: Mingulay Boat Song's Minch ???
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 13 Jan 03 - 07:32 AM

refresh -

does anyone know anything about the owl song I referred to above?

Subject: RE: Mingulay Boat Song's Minch ???
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 13 Jan 03 - 07:53 AM

It would at any rate be interesting to know where Norman Kennedy got his story from. So far as anyone knows, Roberton set his new words to a Lochaber tune, as mentioned a couple of times earlier; and none of the (vague enough) descriptions anyone has come up with of the old song seem to have much to do with owls. It may also have been known in the Islands, of course; but if it was, Roberton doesn't seem to have known about that. Equally, Roberton's text may subsequently have been translated into Gaelic, which would not be unusual, and could possibly Strupag's hearing it there.

Subject: RE: Mingulay Boat Song's Minch ???
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 14 Jan 03 - 07:06 AM

thanks, Malcolm I've passed this thread to the friend who enquired.

sandra

Subject: RE: Mingulay Boat Song's Minch ???
From: GUEST,Bernie in Ontario
Date: 11 May 10 - 02:19 AM

I heard many years ago from a Scotish friend of mine that the Minch was the white caps on top of the waves at sea. It's an indication of how rough the sea is. Hope this helps.

Subject: RE: Mingulay Boat Song's Minch ???
From: Rob Naylor
Date: 11 May 10 - 06:50 AM

I don't think that's the case (minch= whitecaps).

The Gaelic names for the Minch (both parts) are completely unrelated to the word, and it's used in several places in the UK to mean a somewhat crooked channel or body of water.

From my (admittedly fairly basic, but including a lot of dialect, historic and seafaring terms, since I worked on Norwegian vessels for several years in my youth) Norwegian, it doesn't seem to fit with any old Norsk, Ny Norsk or Bøkmal Norsk terms or word roots that I know, so I'd be very much inclined to think that the derivation is the same as "Manche" as used in French for the Channel.

Island names such as Mingulay are certainly of scandinavian origin. They match the Norwegian ending "øy" for island and there are several possibilites for the fore-part of the name. Probably the most logical would be the old Norsk for "big"...ie "Big Island" since, although Mingulay isn't actually the biggest of its local group, standing tall it *looks* to be the biggest from a boat. Giving descriptive names ("sheep island", puffin island", "bird island", etc) seems to have been very much a habit of scandianvian seafarers in the dark ages.

Subject: RE: Mingulay Boat Song's Minch ???
From: IanC
Date: 11 May 10 - 07:05 AM

Not necessarily Scandinavian. Most islands in the Cambridgeshire fens have names ending in -ey (e.g. Whittlesey, Ely) and in the Somerset marshes (e.g. Athelney) which is a standard Anglo-Saxon suffix for an island.

:-)

Subject: RE: Mingulay Boat Song's Minch ???
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 11 May 10 - 08:22 AM

Fowler reckon's that Minch is probably from th Old Scandinavian "megin nes" = great headland.

They give "mickill ey" (muckle island) for Mingulay (Miughalaigh) so the 'n' looks as if it intruded on Anglicisation.

Of the song they say "A famous but inauthentic 'folk song', based on a tune from the Western Highlands and with words by Hugh S. Robertson, written in 1938 for his Glasgow Orpheus Choir."

As for non-Scandinavian roots, you wouldn't find many Anglo-Saxons in the Highlands and Islands till fairly recently, and their place-names are usually recognisably English rather than Anglo-Saxon.

Subject: RE: Mingulay Boat Song's Minch ???
From: Gutcher
Date: 11 May 10 - 04:50 PM

Anent a previous post on this thread which states that Norman Kennedy
thought that this song had something to do with an Owl. Do any of
you gaelic scholars have any knowledge of an ancient song called
"The Owl"?
In a traditional tale of Malcolm 11, King of Scotland, it is given
that this was his favourite song & that his youngest daughter would
sing it to him to help him to relax. Gaelic was at that time the
language used in Scotland.
Malcolm 11 was grandfather to Duncan & McBeth if my memory is
correct,they being sisters sons.
The daughter accompanied herself on the harp when singing.

Subject: RE: Mingulay Boat Song's Minch ???
From: Rob Naylor
Date: 11 May 10 - 07:11 PM

Fowler reckon's that Minch is probably from th Old Scandinavian "megin nes" = great headland.

I don't see it myself: the Minch is a *channel*. Both the Minch and the Little Minch are surrounded by headlands, but from a boat no one of them stands out as being particularly "great" compared to the others. And in any event sailors are not prone to naming water features after nearby land features, or vice-versa. It just sounds like someone who hasn't been able to find a plausible etymology clutching at straws.

It also seems odd that the Minch features at all in the song, seeing as Mingulay is actually in the Hebridean Sea, with a hell of a pull even to the south end of the Little Minch...probably much further than local boatmen would have normally gone back when the island was inhabited...just one more indication that the song was written by someone outside the community.

Subject: RE: Mingulay Boat Song's Minch ???
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 11 May 10 - 07:28 PM

I shouldn't worry too much about what does or doesn't feature in the song - Hugh Robertson was writing in Glasgow where the niceties of Highland geography probably didn't matter too much.

Fowler doesn't give linguistic history, or cite sources.

Subject: RE: Mingulay Boat Song's Minch ???
From: GUEST,Allan
Date: 12 May 10 - 02:35 PM

"As for non-Scandinavian roots, you wouldn't find many Anglo-Saxons in the Highlands and Islands till fairly recently, and their place-names are usually recognisably English rather than Anglo-Saxon."

Quite so common sense suggest it is Scandinavian rather than Anglo-Saxon. The Hebrides were owned by the King of Norway and didn't come back within the Scottish kingdom until about the 13thC or so and of course the Northern Isles were Norse for another couple of hundred years. The Scottish isles are littered with names of Norse origin.

Subject: RE: Mingulay Boat Song's Minch ???
From: Mr Fox
Date: 12 May 10 - 09:15 PM

Google is your friend

Subject: RE: Mingulay Boat Song's Minch ???
From: Rob Naylor
Date: 13 May 10 - 02:55 AM

Yes and no, Mr Fox: the link doesn't actually clarify anything much regarding the discussion above, other than confirming that the Gaelic name for the Minch bears no resemblance to "Minch". The map also confirms that Mingulay is in the Hebridean Sea and not near either of the Minches. It says nothing about the origins of the names.

Subject: RE: Mingulay Boat Song's Minch ???
From: Mr Fox
Date: 13 May 10 - 06:37 AM

The map also confirms that Mingulay is in the Hebridean Sea and not near either of the Minches.

It doesn't have to be right next door - it's the area they fish in. (and its quite possible that the writer of the song got his geography slightly out).

It says nothing about the origins of the names.

It doesn't? Whoops, I should have read the whole article! Not Gaelic? Um, I know it sounds silly (for western Scotland) but how about French? Their name for the English channel is Le Manche (the sleeve). Could some Gallic explorer have used it in the Hebrides as well?

Subject: RE: Mingulay Boat Song's Minch ???
From: Rob Naylor
Date: 13 May 10 - 01:09 PM

I've read the whole article, and it still says nothing about the origins of the name other than *confirming* that it's not gaelic...which we'd *already* established many posts above.

Have *you* read the thread? Or indeed my reply to your post in context? If so I totally fail to understand your aggressive stance.

The article mentions nothing about a French derivation for the name...and we've already discussed that probability at some length.

We'd also discussed the probability that a writer in Glasgow had got his geography out.

So what *exactly* did your "google is your friend" post and link add to the discussion? To say nothing of your subsequent rude reply.

Subject: RE: Mingulay Boat Song's Minch ???
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 13 May 10 - 01:37 PM

It was Wikipedia anyway. Nothing to do with Google.

Subject: RE: Mingulay Boat Song's Minch ???
From: Darowyn
Date: 13 May 10 - 02:14 PM

Assuming that the Scottish vowel shift has consistent rules, (a very big assumption!) then if the word were derived from "La Manche", would it not become "Monch" in Scottish dialect?
A Mon's a Mon for a' that.
Cheers
Dave

Subject: RE: Mingulay Boat Song's Minch ???
From: GUEST,guest
Date: 15 Sep 12 - 03:25 PM

2012 09 15

"La Manche" is from Latin "manica" and "muinchille" or "mainchille" in Irish or Scots Gaelic is from its Latin diminutive "manicula". Geographical features often have more than one name. Isn't it possible that these straits were informally called "the sleeve" and that the word "muinchille" underwent a sound change and was shortened owing to its use by English speakers.

Subject: RE: Mingulay Boat Song's Minch ???
From: Joe Offer
Date: 18 Mar 15 - 04:43 AM

We've had lots of versions of this song posted, but I'm not convinced that we've ever found the original lyrics by Sir Hugh Roberton. Ian (click) came up with lyrics that sound quite authentic, but they come from a book published in 1996. Anybody have lyrics that actually come from Roberton?
I'd love to get hold of Roberton's 1950 book, Songs of the Isles (1950),.
-Joe-

Subject: RE: Mingulay Boat Song's Minch ???
From: FreddyHeadey
Date: 18 Mar 15 - 07:33 AM

? There do seem to be a few in the UK
http://www.abebooks.co.uk/Songs-Isles-Curwen-Edition-No-6375/4406302215/bd

http://www.abebooks.co.uk/Songs-Isles-Volume-Curwen-Edition-2985/11049721687/bd

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/offer-listing/B001AQEQNU/ref=tmm_pap_used_olp_sr?ie=UTF8&condition=used&sr=&qid=

& USA
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1950-Songs-of-the-Isles-Hugh-S-ROBERTON-Imperial-Ed-Scottish-Islands-Highlands-/221703846974?pt=LH_Defau
The fidgety bairn
Highland cradle song : O hush thee, my babie
Ho-ree, ho-ro, my little wee girl
In praise of Isla
Island spinning song
Air falalalo
Joy of my heart
Lewis bridal song : Mairi's wedding
Mingulay boat song
Morag's cradle song
Ossianic processional
Iona boat song
Shuttle and loom
Sing at the wheel
The top of the morning
Uist tramping song
Westering home
Marie's wedding
The Glenlyon lament
The dashing white sergeant
6" x 9", stapled wraps, 48 pp.

---

Thanks, Freddy. I bought the one on eBay. -Joe-

Subject: RE: Mingulay Boat Song's Minch ???
From: Lighter
Date: 18 Mar 15 - 03:03 PM

For those who believe that Roberton "got his geography wrong" because he was writing in Glasgow (which would must have confused anybody, right?), "Minch" makes perfect sense, even if it is far from Mingulay.

If a fishing boat is returning to Mingulay from the northwestern mainland, it *must go through* the stormy Minch and then the South Minch in order to get home.

In any case, "Mingulay Boat Song" is now a "traditional song" by any definition. Few singers know or care who wrote it, most assume it's ancient, it really is based on a traditional melody, and so many variations have developed since 1938 that not even the Mudcat knows what the original lyrics were.

I haven't seen Roberton's 1950 publication either, but presumably the recording by the professional, copyright-conscious Kenneth McKellar is essentially Roberton's own text.

McKellar's version, from "Kenneth McKellar's Scotland," 1967.


Chorus:
Hill-yo-ho, boys! Let her go, boys!
Bring her head round, now all together.
Hill yo ho, boys! Let her go boys,
Sailing home, home to Mingulay.

What care we, though white the Minch is?
What care we for wind or weather?
Let her go, boys! Ev'ry inch is
Wearing home, home to Mingulay.

Chorus

Wives are waiting on the bank or
Looking seaward from the heather;
Pull her round boys, and we'll anchor,
Ere the sun sets at Mingulay.

Chorus (2x)

My *guess* is that if Roberton had written further stanzas, McKellar would have sung them. The track is only about two minutes long. It makes the point and quits. No candles, no bawling kids.

I liked the song so much when I heard KM sing it around 1971 that I refused to listen to it again for many years!

"Hill-yo-ho!" sounds to me like one of those hearty cries made up by a romantic songwriter.

Versions beginning "Keel your haul, boys!" don't have a clue, of course, about what "keelhaul" means. It just sounds like a cool thing sailors do.

PS, now there's a faux American Civil War version as well:

thread.cfm?threadid=77029#1369775

Subject: RE: Mingulay Boat Song's Minch ???
From: Lighter
Date: 18 Mar 15 - 03:16 PM

It was Kipling, not Roberton, who fumbled his geography in "Mandalay," not "Mingulay.

in Kipling's day, poetic licenses were issued more freely than they are now. But is there a man or woman with soul so dead that they regret the line where "dawn comes up like thunder out o' China 'crost the bay"?

Subject: RE: Mingulay Boat Song's Minch ???
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Mar 15 - 03:34 PM

"Image Not Available
Songs of The Isles
Roberton, Hugh S

Published by J Curwen & Sons Ltd., 1950"

http://www.abebooks.co.uk/servlet/SearchResults?isbn=&an=roberton%2C%20hugh%20s&tn=songs%20of%20the%20isles&n=100121503&cm_sp=mb

A bunch available at that site.

Subject: RE: Mingulay Boat Song's Minch ???
From: GUEST,#
Date: 18 Mar 15 - 03:35 PM

Tha twas me.

Subject: RE: Mingulay Boat Song's Minch ???
From: Gallus Moll
Date: 18 Mar 15 - 05:49 PM

I think Hugh Roberton conducted the legendary Orpheus Choir, and arranged pieces for them to sing- - I believe they were part of the soundtrack of 'Whisky Galore'? - Would it have been Hugh Roberton who formed the Orpheus choir?

I seem to recall being taken to St Andrew's Halls (Glasgow) behind Mitchell Library for the Ne'erday Concert of The Messiah by The Orpheus-(or was it the Phoenix?! I should've checked dates before posting) St Andrew's Halls burned down - when? 1950s? 1960s?

The Phoenix Choir grew from the remnants of the Orpheus - - not sure why the choir ceased? Was it when Hugh Roberton died?

Subject: RE: Mingulay Boat Song's Minch ???
From: Gallus Moll
Date: 18 Mar 15 - 06:25 PM

OK I did a little checking- St Andrews Halls burned down in 1962 so I was taken to Ne'erday Messiah Concerts there- but it must have been with The Phoenix Choir as The Orpheus was disbanded in 1951 ---- but my father certainly had old fashioned records (75s?) of Orpheus that he played, All in an April's Evening, many Scots Psalms, Scots / Hebridean songs (Margery Kennedy Fraser -- OK I know there are issues with her- - !)
the Orpheus was magical, legendary.

Subject: RE: Mingulay Boat Song's Minch ???
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 18 Mar 15 - 09:16 PM

Masses of individual scores and arrangements on this site here: 304 items on 26 pages.
http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/sm/composer|10034-b/9
(Sorry, iPad refusing to do blickies!)

According to Wikipedia, Roberton did found the Glasgow Orpheus Choir and disbanded in 1951 when he retired. It also says that the choir was banned from broadcasting by the BBC during WW 2 as he was an affirmed pacifist.

Subject: RE: Mingulay Boat Song's Minch ???
From: GUEST,Jim I
Date: 18 Mar 15 - 09:19 PM

I have always understood that the chorus and the verse were sung to different tunes. Looking at '100 Scottish Songs' does seem to confirm this but almost everyone I have ever heard sing this sings both parts to the same tune.

Just as a matter if interest I have just nipped through a half dozen versions on You Tube and so far the only people I could find singing the right tune (as I understand it) was a clip of the Corries.

Subject: RE: Mingulay Boat Song's Minch ???
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 18 Mar 15 - 09:58 PM

Me too! I was soundly berated by someone at an English folk festival for singing the other tune to the verses: "never 'eard of it" was his scathing remark, really rubbishing me!
Also some versions have that octave leap in it (as per McCalmans' version) whereas most people only go up a fifth on the word "let". Both versions are shown on Google images

Subject: RE: Mingulay Boat Song's Minch ???
From: FreddyHeadey
Date: 19 Mar 15 - 04:32 AM

That octave leap is a great test to sort the singers from the rest of us!
Though I don't enjoy the 1960s BBC style I do like the speed and singing of Kenneth McKellar here Kenneth McKellar and the two melodies.

Subject: RE: Mingulay Boat Song's Minch ???
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 19 Mar 15 - 05:04 AM

Yes, that's the second tune for the verses. I don't do the octave leap version(though I could!) simply because I learned it the other way.

(Incidentally, another song that is rarely sung with its 2 parts of tune is Burns' song "Green Grow the Rashes" - Rod Paterson does both parts, but not many others do. Again it's a more challenging range to do both parts!)

Subject: RE: Mingulay Boat Song's Minch ???
From: Gallus Moll
Date: 20 Mar 15 - 07:52 AM

I have Hugh S Roberton's 'Songs of the Isles' book and was wondering if there is some way I can copy / paste The Mingulay Boat Song (plus index, front cover etc) into this dialogue box?

If there is please explain it to me in very simple terms -- -- -

Subject: ADD: Mingulay Boat Song (original) Hugh S Roberton
From: Joe Offer
Date: 01 Apr 15 - 06:07 PM

Hi, Gallus Moll. I thought I had posted this, but I can't find it. My copy of the book arrived last weekend, and I typed the lyrics up for the Rise Again Songbook. Lighter also bought a copy of the book, and posted the index here (click).

Roberton's version from Songs of the Isles:

MINGULAY BOAT SONG
(Hugh S. Roberton)

Hill you ho, boys; Let her go, boys;
Bring her head round, now all together.
Hill you ho, boys; Let her go, boys;
Sailing home, home to Mingulay

What care we though white the Minch is,
What care we for wind or weather?
Let her go boys! every inch is
Wearing home, home to Mingulay.

Wives are waiting on the bank, or
Looking seaward from the heather,
Pull her round, boys! and we'll anchor
Ere the sun sets at Mingulay.


Words by Hugh S. Roberton
Traditional Gaelic tune (probably Lochaber) arranged by Hugh S. Roberton

Copyright USA 1938, by Hugh S. Roberton

from Roberton's Songs of the Isles, J.Curwen & Songs, London, 1950
pp. 22-23

---

I'm short of time now, but somebody please remind me to post a MIDI after 15 April 2014. Better yet, transcribe a MIDI from the book and send it to me for posting.
[e-mail]

Subject: RE: Mingulay Boat Song's Minch ???
From: Jack Campin
Date: 01 Apr 15 - 06:31 PM

You already have the MIDI. There is an ABC file from your own site. Just paste it into an ABC-to-MIDI converter if you want to waste a minute or two on an entirely useless activity.

http://abcnotation.com/tunePage?a=www.joe-offer.com/folkinfo/songs/abc/749/0000&m=p

Subject: RE: Mingulay Boat Song's Minch ???
From: Lighter
Date: 01 Apr 15 - 07:38 PM

As the late, ever knowledgeable Malcolm Douglas noted in 2006, "The original tune was a pipe tune, 'Creag Guanach'; from, not called, Lochaber. Roberton had it from memory and had forgotten its name."

Subject: RE: Mingulay Boat Song's Minch ???
From: GUEST,DTM
Date: 01 Apr 15 - 07:42 PM

I recall finding an old vynil 33rpm of John Alan Cameron's.
On the sleeve notes he described the Minch as being"a river in Scotland".
Deary me, you'd think a Cape Bretoner would have known better.

Subject: RE: Mingulay Boat Song's Minch ???
From: Jim Brown
Date: 02 Apr 15 - 03:53 AM

If the tune is called "Creag Guanach", that might make sense of the connection to a song about an owl that someone asked about way back on this thread and never got an answer. There is an old Gaelic song from Lochaber called "Oran a' Chòmhachag" ("The Song of the Owl", often called "The Owl of Strone" in English), in which, among other things, an ancient owl tells somebody about the heroes of the past and the great hunting expeditions that she has seen, particularly around Creag Guanach (sometimes written Creag Uanach). This author of the poem, Donald son of Finlay of the Lays, is said to have been a famous hunter in Lochaber in the sixteenth century.

There is a Gaelic text of the song with an English translation in "Duanaire na Sracaire / Songbook of the Pillagers: Anthology of Medieval Gaelic Poetry" ed. by Wilson McLeod and Meg Bateman (Edinburgh: Birlinn, 2007). Unfortunately I can't find a translation online. There are recordings of part of the song at http://www.bbc.co.uk/alba/oran/orain/creag_uanach/ but it looks as if they can only be listened to in the UK, so I can't check if it is the same tune. Does anyone know?