Folklore: Carol Singing and Dancing at Xmas

Subject: Folklore: Carol Singing and Dancing at Xmas
From: Mr Red
Date: 09 Dec 06 - 06:39 AM

Joy usually goes out carol singing in Pitchcombe (nr Stroud Gloucestershire UK) around this time of year. This is a revived custom headed by Steve Rowley who lives in the village. The village is pretty, small and well healed. A glass of punch or apple/orange awaits the assemblage at many houses and Gwilym with members of the Gloucester side often participate carrying, the Devil knows what, probably Be-elzebub. But no dancing takes place.

Now - one of the village asked the question.

"Don't you dance at the same time?"

The questioner would be in her 80's.

What are the traditions for dancing at the same time as carol singing? Not something that has come to my attention, but then I am a townie.

Mr Red

Subject: RE: Folklore: Carol Singing and Dancing at Xmas
From: Cats
Date: 09 Dec 06 - 08:13 AM

To carol actually menas to dance as well as to sing. Traditionally many of the carols were danced to as well as sung, perhaps one of the best known would be the 'Holly Tree and the Ivy'.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Carol Singing and Dancing at Xmas
From: Fliss
Date: 09 Dec 06 - 09:02 AM

It goes into detail about what a carol is in the intro to THe Oxford Book of Carols... it comes from the greek word. Will go and look it up.

Ive been to a christmas ceilidh where all the tunes were carols.

My second name is Carol so I am a happy dance/song!!

fliss

Subject: RE: Folklore: Carol Singing and Dancing at Xmas
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 09 Dec 06 - 11:46 AM

'I saw her daunce so comely, carol and sing so sweetly'. Chaucer.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Carol Singing and Dancing at Xmas
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 09 Dec 06 - 05:09 PM

From Keyte and Parrott, eds., The Shorter New Oxford Book of Carols, quoted on the Hymns and Carols of Chrismas site, in notes for "Deck the Halls with Boughs of Holly":

'Nos Galan' ('New Year's Eve') is one of the many texts to which this tune was formerly sung. It belongs to the competitive canu penillion tradition, in which merrymakers would dance in a ring around a harpist, extemporizing verses in turn and dropping out when invention failed. The harp originally played the 'answering' bars (3-4 etc.), but nonsense syllables came to be substituted as harpers became less common.


~ Becky in Tucson

Subject: RE: Folklore: Carol Singing and Dancing at Xmas
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 09 Dec 06 - 05:13 PM

The Earthly Delights site has newly composed dances for "64 popular Christmas carols", "to reconnect carols with dancing and to give people the exquisite sensation of once again dancing to singing and singing while they dance..."

~ B in T

Subject: RE: Folklore: Carol Singing and Dancing at Xmas
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 12:02 AM

In the Earthly delight notes for the carols and new dances, they also discuss what's known about the early dances to the songs.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Carol Singing and Dancing at Xmas
From: sian, west wales
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 06:00 AM

"
'Nos Galan' ('New Year's Eve') is one of the many texts to which this tune was formerly sung. It belongs to the competitive canu penillion tradition, in which merrymakers would dance in a ring around a harpist, extemporizing verses in turn and dropping out when invention failed."

Re the Shorter New Oxford Book of Carols quote above, am I reading something incorrectly? Nos Galan, "...one of the many texts to which this tune was formerly sung" should surely be the other way around? "... one of the many tunes to which this text was ... sung"? Even so, I think it's wrong. I can't think of any other tune to which "Deck the Halls" is sung and it was my understanding that those words were first published to the Welsh tune, Nos Galan, in the States somewhere towards the end of the 19th C.

Nos Galan is certainly a harp air which is still used for dancing, as well as for singing penillion, which the author has explained correctly ... except that I'm not aware that anyone sang and danced at the same time.

sian

Subject: RE: Folklore: Carol Singing and Dancing at Xmas
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 06:21 AM

Carol singing was originally done during the 12 Days of Christmas, not much before. Christmas Eve evening was probably the earliest, a sort of Protestant precursor to the now popular Midnight Mass. If you look at the words of a lot of carols, they are naratives in the past tense - i.e., Christ has already been born, suggesting they'd be sung during the 12 days rather than before: Whilst shepherds watched; Once in Royal David's city: I saw three ships...

Being a religious festival, dancing was frowned upon as ungodly. If you read (can't believe I'm recommending this again!!) 'Under the Greenwood Tree' by Thomas Hardy, he gives a good description of a Christmas party, given on Christmas night. There the younger members of the gathering are exhorted to not dance until after midnight, when Christmas Day was over. It was fine to sing and play music around the village or around the fire at home, and fine to drink and eat, but no dancing. That's why most Morris/Mumming teams go out on Boxing Day. Although it's now popular as Holy Innocents, as St Stephen's day it was just another of those papist saints whose feast day meant very little to the general populace. It wasn't counted as a holy day and so dancing was allowed (unless it fell upon a Sunday in which case, usual rules applied - no dancing til after midnight).

There are several instances in song of people breaking Sabbath by dancing and being turned into stone circles - the 'Wedding at Stanton Drew' being one, where the dance continues past midnight into Sunday and they're all petrified. Christmas, being the most significant day after Easter would be doubly sacrosanct.

LTS

Subject: RE: Folklore: Carol Singing and Dancing at Xmas
From: Mr Red
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 07:57 AM

Thanks folks - I got more here than on the tradsong forum (so far)

Now to wind up Steve on the E-ceilidh who takes a dim view of any discourse on S*ng, M*rr*s, C*ntr*, Fr*nch, C*j*n.

This will be fun

Subject: RE: Folklore: Carol Singing and Dancing at Xmas
From: Fliss
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 09:42 AM

The earliest use of the word 'carol' in English referred to a round dance. But later it came to mean a joyful hymn, particularly one associated with the Nativity, though it might also be associated with another season (such as Easter) or no particular season at all.

Our modern day carols probably evolved from a tradition of pre-Christian sung fertility dances, which is believed to have survived up to the 14th Century in this country. The dances are believed to have been similar in format to the branle (pronounced brawl) - Old French circle dances and Breton - style Andro or processional line dances.

The word carol comes from the Greek word Choros meaning a "band of singers and dancers".

See the following link for more about carols

History.uk.com

Subject: RE: Folklore: Carol Singing and Dancing at Xmas
From: Fee Lock
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 12:40 PM

Snippety snip from the naughty Mr Red:

>Now to wind up Steve on the E-ceilidh who takes a dim view of any discourse on S*ng, M*rr*s, C*ntr*, Fr*nch, C*j*n.<

To be fair, he only gets irritable when it's off topic stuff on ECeilidh. He's quite cool about it on other fora ...

Fee x

Subject: RE: Folklore: Carol Singing and Dancing at Xmas
From: Mr Red
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 05:16 PM

see the EC forum Fee

or as they say in the Stroud Sub Rooms brochure for March 3rd "Moondance with Fi Lock.

Hi Fi

Guilty as charged. But on topic I feel. Having collected my e-mails now I will brave the onslaught.........

Bye Fi

Subject: RE: Folklore: Carol Singing and Dancing at Xmas
From: Kaleea
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 05:30 PM

Now, I suppose someone will say that I should be dancing, singing and playing my Celtic Harp at the same time?! OK, so who's gonna hold my harp for me?