Origin: Carnal and the Crane (from Maddy Prior)

Subject: Carnal & the Crane
From: Murray on Saltspring
Date: 10 Dec 06 - 12:30 AM

The tune Maddy Prior uses for her version of "The Carnal and the Crane" isn't the one in the Oxford Book of Carols. What is it and where did she get it?? I do think it's a fittingly merry sort of tune, better than the trad [as in the DT].

Subject: RE: Carnal & the Crane
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 10 Dec 06 - 05:41 AM

I don't know but we do have a different tune to the one in the dt. See here. The version we have was "collected from Mrs Hirons, The Haven, Dilwyn, Hertfordshire, 1909 by Ralph Vaughan Williams".

Subject: RE: Carnal & the Crane
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 10 Dec 06 - 06:41 AM

Jim Causley has written his own tune for this apocryphal carol. He came to him on a train journey and is recorded on the excellent Fruits Of The Earth.

Subject: RE: Carnal & the Crane
From: Murray on Saltspring
Date: 23 Dec 06 - 07:48 PM

Refresh

Subject: RE: Carnal & the Crane
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 23 Dec 06 - 07:56 PM

I love Jim Causley's version. In fact, I just love Jim Causley. Great CD.

Subject: RE: Origin: Carnal and the Crane (from Maddy Prior
From: GUEST,Murray on Saltspring
Date: 14 Nov 07 - 02:06 AM

Refresh

Subject: RE: Origin: Carnal and the Crane (from Maddy Prior)
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 14 Nov 07 - 11:03 AM

The page Jon linked (thanks, Jon) has a difficult time with the word 'carnal,' saying, 'The word would presumably be a borrowing from the French corneille.'

I suspect it's simply a dialect form for 'cardinal,' another kind of bird. I think it would be easy for people who do not read or write to lose track of the 'd' in the middle of 'cardinal.'

Of course,it would have been simpler if the person who collected the song had asked what it meant and kept a record!

Subject: RE: Origin: Carnal and the Crane (from Maddy Prior)
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 14 Nov 07 - 01:41 PM

Except cardinals don't live in Great Britain.

Subject: RE: Origin: Carnal and the Crane (from Maddy Prior)
From: GUEST,Murray on Saltspring
Date: 14 Nov 07 - 02:18 PM

How does he Causley tune go? Maddy Prior's is a jolly major tune - in olfa, something like mf/s s s f/ m- r d m/r s, l,t, d etc.

Subject: RE: Origin: Carnal and the Crane (from Maddy Prior)
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 14 Nov 07 - 09:23 PM

Yes, I know cardinals don't live in Great Britain. But tunes have been swimming the Atlantic for a long time.

Subject: RE: Origin: Carnal and the Crane (from Maddy Prior
From: Nerd
Date: 15 Nov 07 - 02:30 AM

The OED lists Carnal as an obsolete word for crow, derived from French Corneille. Previous dictionaries have not listed it, but as Child himself says on the subject, "it is hazardous to build conclusions on the omissions of dictionaries."

Subject: RE: Origin: Carnal and the Crane (from Maddy Prior)
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 15 Nov 07 - 04:52 PM

Worth observing, though, that the OED's only evidence is this very ballad!

Subject: RE: Origin: Carnal and the Crane (from Maddy Prior)
From: GUEST,Murray on Saltspring
Date: 20 Dec 11 - 10:04 PM

Refresh - surely someone knows the tune?

Subject: RE: Origin: Carnal and the Crane (from Maddy Prior)
From: Les from Hull
Date: 21 Dec 11 - 05:14 AM

There's some useful carnal knowledge on this thread, though.