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Obit: Chilean Dictator Augusto Pinochet(1915-2006)

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BLOOD UPON THE GRASS


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alanabit 10 Dec 06 - 03:14 PM
GUEST 10 Dec 06 - 03:20 PM
Big Mick 10 Dec 06 - 03:23 PM
Peace 10 Dec 06 - 03:24 PM
Big Mick 10 Dec 06 - 03:25 PM
fat B****rd 10 Dec 06 - 03:27 PM
Cluin 10 Dec 06 - 03:38 PM
Maryrrf 10 Dec 06 - 03:47 PM
Folkiedave 10 Dec 06 - 03:53 PM
bobad 10 Dec 06 - 03:58 PM
GUEST,El Codnor Paso 10 Dec 06 - 05:11 PM
Tom Hamilton frae Saltcoats Scotland 10 Dec 06 - 05:37 PM
Tom Hamilton frae Saltcoats Scotland 10 Dec 06 - 05:38 PM
Tom Hamilton frae Saltcoats Scotland 10 Dec 06 - 05:40 PM
Roughyed 10 Dec 06 - 05:50 PM
Big Mick 10 Dec 06 - 05:53 PM
Peace 10 Dec 06 - 05:58 PM
Amergin 10 Dec 06 - 08:02 PM
BanjoRay 10 Dec 06 - 08:17 PM
Bobert 10 Dec 06 - 08:24 PM
GUEST 10 Dec 06 - 08:25 PM
Rowan 10 Dec 06 - 08:39 PM
Little Hawk 10 Dec 06 - 08:53 PM
Dan Schatz 10 Dec 06 - 09:30 PM
Teribus 10 Dec 06 - 10:28 PM
Richard Bridge 11 Dec 06 - 03:21 AM
Paul Burke 11 Dec 06 - 03:27 AM
alanabit 11 Dec 06 - 05:04 AM
Tom Hamilton frae Saltcoats Scotland 11 Dec 06 - 05:11 AM
Liz the Squeak 11 Dec 06 - 05:20 AM
GUEST,Penguin Egg 11 Dec 06 - 05:30 AM
David C. Carter 11 Dec 06 - 05:47 AM
Cllr 11 Dec 06 - 06:54 AM
alanabit 11 Dec 06 - 07:48 AM
McGrath of Harlow 11 Dec 06 - 08:15 AM
Richard Bridge 11 Dec 06 - 08:39 AM
Greg F. 11 Dec 06 - 09:51 AM
GUEST,MarkS 11 Dec 06 - 09:57 AM
McGrath of Harlow 11 Dec 06 - 10:07 AM
Bunnahabhain 11 Dec 06 - 10:22 AM
GUEST,MarkS 11 Dec 06 - 10:43 AM
Tom Hamilton frae Saltcoats Scotland 11 Dec 06 - 12:55 PM
GUEST,kissinger 11 Dec 06 - 01:07 PM
M.Ted 11 Dec 06 - 02:12 PM
McGrath of Harlow 11 Dec 06 - 02:52 PM
Peace 11 Dec 06 - 02:54 PM
Tom Hamilton frae Saltcoats Scotland 11 Dec 06 - 03:34 PM
GUEST,mg 11 Dec 06 - 06:31 PM
the lemonade lady 11 Dec 06 - 07:47 PM
Mr Happy 11 Dec 06 - 07:49 PM
Cllr 11 Dec 06 - 08:11 PM
GUEST 11 Dec 06 - 09:24 PM
Greg F. 11 Dec 06 - 09:31 PM
GUEST,dax 12 Dec 06 - 05:12 AM
McGrath of Harlow 12 Dec 06 - 07:18 AM
Tom Hamilton frae Saltcoats Scotland 12 Dec 06 - 08:31 AM
Greg F. 12 Dec 06 - 09:30 AM
Wesley S 12 Dec 06 - 10:06 AM
Peace 12 Dec 06 - 10:09 AM
Tom Hamilton frae Saltcoats Scotland 12 Dec 06 - 10:10 AM
Tom Hamilton frae Saltcoats Scotland 12 Dec 06 - 10:11 AM
Teribus 12 Dec 06 - 10:23 AM
Wesley S 12 Dec 06 - 10:34 AM
Wolfgang 12 Dec 06 - 04:09 PM
Tom Hamilton frae Saltcoats Scotland 13 Dec 06 - 10:00 AM
McGrath of Harlow 13 Dec 06 - 10:01 AM
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Subject: BS: Pinochet dies
From: alanabit
Date: 10 Dec 06 - 03:14 PM

Let's hope the late, unlamented General Augusto Pinochet case has now been passed on to a higher court.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pinochet dies
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Dec 06 - 03:20 PM

Couldn't have happened to a nicer guy.

Do you suppose it's just a coincidence the grim reaper came for him and Jeanne Kirkpatrick at the same time?

Addresses of their graves to follow, so the world can dance upon them.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pinochet dies
From: Big Mick
Date: 10 Dec 06 - 03:23 PM

There is one advantage to having my belief system. I now know that this despot is receiving that which he has so richly deserves.

Mick


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Subject: RE: BS: Pinochet dies
From: Peace
Date: 10 Dec 06 - 03:24 PM

Open casket funeral. Last shot of him.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pinochet dies
From: Big Mick
Date: 10 Dec 06 - 03:25 PM

ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Pinochet dies
From: fat B****rd
Date: 10 Dec 06 - 03:27 PM

'ere. We in the UK owed him so much. Maggie Thatcher said so.
Oustanding, Bruce, outstanding.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pinochet dies
From: Cluin
Date: 10 Dec 06 - 03:38 PM

Is that one of those new ecologically friendly toilets, Peace? The ones that use less water?

It's not so eco-friendly when you have to flush it 5 times.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pinochet dies
From: Maryrrf
Date: 10 Dec 06 - 03:47 PM

My ex husband was Chilean, an exile in France from the Pinochet regime. I personally knew many people who had been tortured by the DINA - the Chilean equivalent of the Nazi SS.   My ex's brother was one of the thousands who "disappeared" and it wasn't until twenty five years later that the family learned for sure what they had suspected, he was tortured to death and dumped in to a mass grave. He was 20 years old and left behind a wife and a one year old son. Just last month I learned something that made me physically sick about what had been done to another family member in those days after the coup - an infant who was tortured with electric shocks until the father broke down and gave up some information. It did no good - the baby died under the torture and the father has lived with this all these years, plus the fact that he broke down and gave information that lead to someone's death.

I'm glad Pinochet is gone, but I'm just sorry he went peacefully.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pinochet dies
From: Folkiedave
Date: 10 Dec 06 - 03:53 PM

I have a friend in Sheffield the City took a number of refugees and Luis was one of them.

One day after a footy game when he took his shirt off I saw what Pinochets thugs had done to him.

Pinochet dead? Rejoice.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pinochet dies
From: bobad
Date: 10 Dec 06 - 03:58 PM

Masters of War
by Bob Dylan
        
Come you masters of war
You that build all the guns
You that build the death planes
You that build the big bombs
You that hide behind walls
You that hide behind desks
I just want you to know
I can see through your masks

You that never done nothin'
But build to destroy
You play with my world
Like it's your little toy
You put a gun in my hand
And you hide from my eyes
And you turn and run farther
When the fast bullets fly

Like Judas of old
You lie and deceive
A world war can be won
You want me to believe
But I see through your eyes
And I see through your brain
Like I see through the water
That runs down my drain

You fasten the triggers
For the others to fire
Then you set back and watch
When the death count gets higher
You hide in your mansion
As young people's blood
Flows out of their bodies
And is buried in the mud

You've thrown the worst fear
That can ever be hurled
Fear to bring children
Into the world
For threatening my baby
Unborn and unnamed
You ain't worth the blood
That runs in your veins

How much do I know
To talk out of turn
You might say that I'm young
You might say I'm unlearned
But there's one thing I know
Though I'm younger than you
Even Jesus would never
Forgive what you do

Let me ask you one question
Is your money that good
Will it buy you forgiveness
Do you think that it could
I think you will find
When your death takes its toll
All the money you made
Will never buy back your soul

And I hope that you die
And your death'll come soon
I will follow your casket
In the pale afternoon
And I'll watch while you're lowered
Down to your deathbed
And I'll stand o'er your grave
'Til I'm sure that you're dead


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Subject: RE: BS: Pinochet dies
From: GUEST,El Codnor Paso
Date: 10 Dec 06 - 05:11 PM

The old F***er's dead. I hope he died slowly, painfully, hopelessly. Hell is to good for him.

Down he'll go in some dark hole
Where the fish'll have his body and the devil have his soul......

Not laughted so much since Franco died. Can't wait for Thatcher, Bush and Bliar.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pinochet dies
From: Tom Hamilton frae Saltcoats Scotland
Date: 10 Dec 06 - 05:37 PM

Mind you he could of done it without America's help in 1973.

according to a song by the group called Black eyed biddy (scottish).


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Subject: RE: BS: Pinochet dies
From: Tom Hamilton frae Saltcoats Scotland
Date: 10 Dec 06 - 05:38 PM

I myself am glad that the old bastard is dead.

now all we need is Maggie Thatcher to die and I truely rejoyce


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Subject: RE: BS: Pinochet dies
From: Tom Hamilton frae Saltcoats Scotland
Date: 10 Dec 06 - 05:40 PM

Augusto José Ramón Pinochet Ugarte



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

30th President of Chile (in name only, never elected)
In office
September 11, 1973 – March 11, 1990
Preceded by Salvador Allende
Succeeded by Patricio Aylwin

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

President of Government Junta
In office
September 11, 1973 – March 11, 1981
Preceded by None
Succeeded by José Toribio Merino

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Born November 25, 1915
Valparaíso
Died December 10, 2006
Santiago
Political party none (military)
Spouse Lucía Hiriart Rodríguez
Augusto José Ramón Pinochet Ugarte[1] (November 25, 1915–December 10, 2006) was a general and dictator of Chile. He led the military junta which came to power in 1973 through a coup d'etat, deposing the democratically elected President Salvador Allende, and ruled as president of the Republic with dictatorial powers from 1974 to 1990.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Augusto_Pinochet

Cut and paste of Wikipedia replaced with a link. There is no need to cut and paste as it is readily available. The general rule with regard to cut and paste articles is no more than what will fit on one computer screen. This far exceeded that. Mudelf


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Subject: RE: BS: Pinochet dies
From: Roughyed
Date: 10 Dec 06 - 05:50 PM

Lest we forget

Victor Jara
words by Adrian Mitchell, music by Arlo Guthrie

Victor Jara of Chile
Lived like a shooting star
He fought for the people of Chile
With his songs and his guitar
His hands were gentle, his hands were strong

Victor Jara was a peasant
He worked from a few years old
He sat upon his father's plow
And watched the earth unfold
His hands were gentle, his hands were strong

Now when the neighbors had a wedding
Or one of their children died
His mother sang all night for them
With Victor by her side
His hands were gentle, his hands were strong

He grew up to be a fighter
Against the people's wrongs
He listened to their grief and joy
And turned them into songs
His hands were gentle, his hands were strong

He sang about the copper miners
And those who worked the land
He sang about the factory workers
And they knew he was their man
His hands were gentle, his hands were strong

He campaigned for Allende
Working night and day
He sang "Take hold of your brothers hand
You know the future begins today"
His hands were gentle, his hands were strong

Then the generals seized Chile
They arrested Victor then
They caged him in a stadium
With five-thousand frightened men
His hands were gentle, his hands were strong

Victor stood in the stadium
His voice was brave and strong
And he sang for his fellow prisoners
Till the guards cut short his song
His hands were gentle, his hands were strong

They broke the bones in both his hands
They beat him on the head
They tore him with electric shocks
And then they shot him dead
His hands were gentle, his hands were strong

Repeat first verse

©1977, 1990 by by Adrian Mitchell & Arlo Guthrie
All Rights Reserved.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pinochet dies
From: Big Mick
Date: 10 Dec 06 - 05:53 PM

From Rick Fieldings "Voices of Struggle":

In Chile, while we watched a country's hopes come and gone,
the army crushed a people, but the could not crush the song.
Victor Jara's tortured body will not suffer anymore,
Though dead, his spirit rises with a mighty freedom roar.


All the best,

Mick


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Subject: RE: BS: Pinochet dies
From: Peace
Date: 10 Dec 06 - 05:58 PM

Well, today IS International Human Rights Day. How ironic and how apt.


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Subject: Obit: Augusto Pinochet
From: Amergin
Date: 10 Dec 06 - 08:02 PM

This scumbag has died....and in so doing has gotten away with murder.

Augusto Pinochet


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Subject: RE: BS: Pinochet dies
From: BanjoRay
Date: 10 Dec 06 - 08:17 PM

Someone on the radio said that at his request he'll be buried in a mass grave under a football stadium.
Ray


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Subject: RE: BS: Pinochet dies
From: Bobert
Date: 10 Dec 06 - 08:24 PM

Dont' het the door hit ya' on yer way to Hell...


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Subject: RE: BS: Pinochet dies
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Dec 06 - 08:25 PM

Actually, I believe Pinochet invented Human Rights Day.

He decided he would honor human rights one day a year.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pinochet dies
From: Rowan
Date: 10 Dec 06 - 08:39 PM

Which reminds me of this poem by Keith McKenry

September the Eleventh

In these awful times, as we struggle to understand what is happening to our world,
we must keep in mind the events of the recent past.

At dawn on September the eleventh he received his orders.
While others would attack the citadels of commerce and defence
To his team would go the greatest honour,
That of targeting the President himself.

They would attack by air the central symbol of the Infidel's power
– The Presidential Palace –
And they would take out this obscene man
And all who stood by him.

'Democracy' the infidels called it.
Let them call it thus
And carp at the virtue of 'elections'.
Elections were fallible.
And now things had to be put right.

He had chosen his team well.
While others might quake at the magnitude
Of their mission, they would not flinch.

They boarded the aircraft carrying with them the hopes of all true believers.
They had the support, too, of powerful friends abroad,
Of a courageous foreign government that supported their cause,
Equipped them, trained them, and put up cash.
And when victory was won and the revolution complete
It would recognise them, and give them honour.
To it, too, must go the glory.

The plan was meticulous.
His destiny – and that of his colleagues – was in his own hands.
Flying low, he turned the aircraft towards the capital
And prayed his aim would be true.

                *        *        *

The attack succeeded.
The President, given warning by developments elsewhere,
Chose to stay in his residence and dared them do their worst.
He was dead by evening. His regime – like his palace – rubble around him.

He made a final broadcast to the nation. Here is part of what he said:
"This is surely the last opportunity I will have to address you...
With my life I will pay for defending the principles
Dear to our nation…these are my last words".

And so they were. On September 11 1973
Salvador Allende, President of Chile died,
Refusing to flee an air attack on the Presidential Palace.
His murderers, a military putsch supported by the government of the United States,
Overthrew the democratically-elected government
And established a rein of terror that saw thousands murdered.

Thus did the date September 11
First associate terror with the United States.

                                                        Keith McKenry


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Subject: RE: BS: Pinochet dies
From: Little Hawk
Date: 10 Dec 06 - 08:53 PM

Hmmm. Interesting synchronicity there.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pinochet dies
From: Dan Schatz
Date: 10 Dec 06 - 09:30 PM

When I was in Chile in 1993, Pinochet was no longer President, but still head of the military. When President Aylwin went on a European trip, Pinochet decided to have his troops surround the governmental palace at La Moneda while he and his generals had meetings inside. It was a frightening moment. Nevertheless, by that time he had become almost a comic figure in the public mind - seen as senile and probably not too bright to begin with.

One of my friends in the poblacion of Cerro Navia gave me a picture of a piece of Chilean graffiti that showed up close to this time of year on a wall in Santiago during the height of Pinochet's rule. It said: "Feliz navidad para todos menos para uno." "Merry Christmas to all - except one."

About six years ago I wrote a song for Victor Jara and others like him in Chile and elsewhere that died at the hands of people like Pinochet. I've never sung it in public, because I'm not convinced it's my best work, but somehow it seems appropriate today.


The Work of Freedom (for Victor Jara and all the others)
by Dan Schatz

They came in the night and stole your freedom
They took away your rights
Locked you in prison with thousands of others
But still you danced,
A dance of defiance
to those who would take away all joy.

And the strength of your spirit
lived on and the work of freedom grew.

They came in the night and saw you dance
So they took away your feet
Bound you down with shackles so your feet were far too heavy
But still you played
A tune of the people
On the four remaining strings of your guitar.

And the strength of your spirit
lived on and the work of freedom grew.

They came in the night and saw you play
So they took away your hands,
cut them off with knives leaving nothing but the pain
But still you sang
You sang a song of freedom
And the walls began resounding with your voice

And the strength of your spirit
lived on and the work of freedom grew.

They came in the night and heard you sing
So they took away your voice,
Left you there with no way you could speak
And still you thought
Gazed up at them defiant,
Your eyes full of pity for their wrong
        
And the strength of your spirit
lived on and the work of freedom grew.

They came in the night and knew you thought
So they took away your life.
And you died the death of thousands, but they could not kill your spirit
It still lives,
Wherever there's injustice
Your dance your song your thoughts of freedom grow.

For the strength of your spirit
lives on and the work of freedom grows.

        ©2000 by Dan Schatz


Dan Schatz


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Subject: RE: BS: Pinochet dies
From: Teribus
Date: 10 Dec 06 - 10:28 PM

fat B****rd - 10 Dec 06 - 03:27 PM

"'ere. We in the UK owed him so much. Maggie Thatcher said so."

In fact fat B****rd, she was right, due to the assistance and co-operation received during the Falklands War, Pinochet directly saved the lives of many British Servicemen. Now if it is alright to accept the help of a real butcher like Stalin (in terms of numbers he made Hitler look like a Boy Scout) in time of need, then without wishing to point out the obvious - the precedent has already been set - live with it.

Tom Hamilton - 10 Dec 06 - 05:38 PM

"I myself am glad that the old bastard is dead.

now all we need is Maggie Thatcher to die and I truely rejoyce"

Aye Tom, but then you didn't serve down in the Falklands, you had no kin at risk in that conflict. No doubt at all subsequent elections you did your Scottish best and voted either SNP or Labour in the national elections - for what Tom? All of those policies of Maggie's that actually pulled our country out of the shit - your Labour Government's have not recinded/reversed a single one, in fact the erstwhile future leader of the Labour Party and our next unelected Prime Minister, Gordon Brown has had a fine time taking credit for what Maggie Thatcher did for for the economy and wealth of the British Isles. Don't feel so bad, or bitter about it Tam - almost every country in Europe has followed her example and prospered because of it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pinochet dies
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 03:21 AM

Thatcher destroyed much and saved nothing but her rich bastard friends.

Now that it is too late for Pinochet to suffer while alive, may he burn in hell eternally. For him I would wish the religious fantasy to be true.

It is not yet too late for Thatcher. May I borrow three lines from the song Lazlo Feyer? "13 years may she lie bleeding, 13 doctors cannot cure her, 13 shelves of drugs can't heal her". May her pension provider go into liquidation, may her health insurance company go into liquidation, may she be left to the health service she ruined, may she be denied treatment on the cost effectiveness ("internal market") principles she imposed on it - may she reap in return the suffering she imposed on others, and may she suffer for each person she made to suffer.

May I also make a special plea for the suffering of the two faced bastard Jack Straw who blocked one small attempt by Spain to mete to Pinochet as he measured to others?

If (and I am not convinced) we needed to deal with Pinochet in Thatcher's election campaign (oh, sorry, Falklands War) then when we had used him, we should have never have regarded ourselves as beholden to him. A debt of gratitude is a matter of conscience, and to a man such as him, a man with no conscience, no such debt can be owed.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pinochet dies
From: Paul Burke
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 03:27 AM

Teribus can't resist proving he's a pillock, can he?

They are going to cremate Pinochet, so they say. It's a pity he won't feel it. It's at times like this that we atheists feel inadequate, being unable to consign him to everlasting hell.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pinochet dies
From: alanabit
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 05:04 AM

I intended to only mention the unlamented dictator in this thread. However, in addition to endorsing every word of Richard Bridge's post, I would add that the financial policies, which brought Britain back from the brink were actually forced on the previous government by the catastrophe of Black Monday.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pinochet dies
From: Tom Hamilton frae Saltcoats Scotland
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 05:11 AM

Yes I voted for the SNP, the reason was and still is for a better life in Scotland, it was just lucky that the Falklands war came about and so many soldiers/sailors died just to keep thatcher in power. And anyone who can be a friend of this shit Pinochet, are just as bad.

Teribus must be a Tory.

and it's because of her that the country is such a state.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pinochet dies
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 05:20 AM

Well thank F&%k for that.... I don't usually rejoice when someone dies but this is one case I'll gladly change for!

My church has a set of 'stations of the cross' - prints from paintings from an Argentinian priest who saw first hand the torturings, beatings, persecutions and disappearances. He's painted Christ as one of the tortured, an apt anology. The backgrounds show a bleak and strangled community, each afraid to live, hardly daring to fall in love, because that will only cause pain when their loved ones are 'disappeared'.

Rioting in the streets of Santiago today. BBC News report here.

Just goes to show, that no matter how evil, twisted and dangerous one person can be... there will always be a thousand others who feel the same.

LTS


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Subject: RE: BS: Pinochet dies
From: GUEST,Penguin Egg
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 05:30 AM

As bad as the old thug was, and I for one will not lament his death, by the standards of the 20th Century, he was not too bad. He sent thousands to their deaths, not millions. He was still a bad man, but he was a creature of United States foreign policy. Without the CIA and Pentagon, there would have been no coup.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pinochet dies
From: David C. Carter
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 05:47 AM

So,he only sent"thousands to their deaths not millions".Well that's a relief!How F&cking generous of him!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Pinochet dies
From: Cllr
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 06:54 AM

thanks, as usual, teribus for providing some sane comments.

I once put up a Chilean musician in my house during Sidmouth folk week Mauritcsio Venagas and to hear him speak about the regime he as in excile from made me near weep.



Churchil in a house of parliament once praised Stalin after hitler invaded russia When asked how he reconciled his well known anti communist views he said " If Hitler had invaded Hell he would have a good word to say for the devil"



Cllr


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Subject: RE: BS: Pinochet dies
From: alanabit
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 07:48 AM

Cllr, I take it that your point is that you can't clean a sewer and keep your hands clean. That may be true, but few of us would want to boast we had to go in a sewer. By any standards, Pinochet was a despicable traitor and thug. Consorting with him did not raise his standing, it merely lowered Mrs. Thatcher's. He was on a moral plane several steps below Jack the Ripper, who could at least have pleaded insanity. You can make a case for using him when he was in power. However, there is no excuse for seeking the company of vicious criminals and pretending that they are dignified old men. That is what Mrs. Thatcher did.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pinochet dies
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 08:15 AM

But I doubt if he'd have had many good words to say about the devil twenty years later. And I doubt if Churchill's comments on Stalin's death would have been in similar terms to what Thacher and KLamont had to say about Pinochet this week.

But I agree with those who have said the blame for Pinochet's regime lies very largely in Washington.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pinochet dies
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 08:39 AM

It has never been possible to lower Thatcher's standing among people wth any standards of humanity.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pinochet dies
From: Greg F.
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 09:51 AM

Any luck Pinochet's partner & enabler in the events of September 11 - the unindicted war criminal Henry Kissinger - will be next.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pinochet dies
From: GUEST,MarkS
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 09:57 AM

Henry Kissinger an partner and enabler in the events of September11?

Greg, could you expand on that?

Thanks

Mark


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Subject: RE: BS: Pinochet dies
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 10:07 AM

That's September 11th 1973.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pinochet dies
From: Bunnahabhain
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 10:22 AM

Mark S, Google September 11th 1973, or look earlier in this thread. Date of his coup.


For all of those round here who still hate Thatcher with such passion, please stop and think before you rant. Do you really belive if it wasn't for we would still have a major coal mining industry?


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Subject: RE: BS: Pinochet dies
From: GUEST,MarkS
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 10:43 AM

Much obliged to all. Need to read before typing??
Thanks


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Subject: RE: BS: Pinochet dies
From: Tom Hamilton frae Saltcoats Scotland
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 12:55 PM

what's the difference between Labour and the The Tories

ans:-

nothing both are just a bad as each other


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Subject: RE: BS: Pinochet dies
From: GUEST,kissinger
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 01:07 PM

The guy was up to his neck in the blood of the chilean people ....and many others in Vietnam Cambodia and elsewhere.
ifor


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Subject: RE: BS: Pinochet dies
From: M.Ted
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 02:12 PM

As I have contributed to past Pinochet threads, I thought I ought to add a few words here. His death is a relief, at least.

For political reasons, it never was possible to punish him for what he did, and beyond that, there is no punishment that can be inflicted on any man that will ever bring justice to those who have suffered at his hands.

He is gone, though at a ripe old age, and he left many sympathizers. The force that he represented is still very real in Chilean, if not South American, and even world politics. Nothing is really over.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pinochet dies
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 02:52 PM

The most fitting way to remember Pinochet is to ignore him - to turn away, and remember something a lot more worth remembering than the Pinochets of this world. For example, move over to this thread - songs of Victor Jara


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Subject: RE: BS: Pinochet dies
From: Peace
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 02:54 PM

Good thought, McG of H. Good thought.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pinochet dies
From: Tom Hamilton frae Saltcoats Scotland
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 03:34 PM

we haven't heard from many tory supporters (Thatcher) supporters,

both dictors in their way.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pinochet dies
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 06:31 PM

I for one don't wish anyone any unpleasantness in the hereafter, except so far as it keeps other people from following in his/her footsteps. Here on earth I am willing to do whatever it takes to stop them. mg


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Subject: RE: BS: Pinochet dies
From: the lemonade lady
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 07:47 PM

Pinochet dies

Good

Sal


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Subject: RE: BS: Pinochet dies
From: Mr Happy
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 07:49 PM

If you put 'Pinochet' in spelchecker - one of the options is 'Pinocchio'!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Pinochet dies
From: Cllr
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 08:11 PM

Tom there ar a few of us conservatives about on mudcat I assure you and Conservatism being a broad church means that that not all conservatives were thatcherite. at risk of thread creep do you think that a conservative is one who is active in party politics or just one who voted that way, on either hand is there any reason for us to post considering the vituperative nature of some of the posts.

alanabit, you make a very good point thankyou for replying in such a manner.
I suppose that as an active tory anything i say might be construed as a defence of pinochet overall and its not.

I remember when Tony Benn was talking about the arms trade in the seventies when he was a minister saying that it was nessercary evil because of the jobs and money it brought into the country. did he fail in his own political beliefs I woulldnt say so I admire him even if i don't agree with him.

I will say that comparing thatcher to Pinochet/Hitler/Mao/Stalin in actions makes the writer look silly imho, while some may accuse Thatcher of similar crimes i think there is a case of loss of perspective here.

What alanabit says is more rational and i would agree with the most part on what he says.

Dictators come from all wings of the political spectrum but this seems to be a point forgotton by some of the comentators here.
But most people i have met on the left and right are because they are tring to help their own communityand being involved in a political party should be thought of a a good thing not a perjorative who thinks that any brand of politics other than there own results in dictators.

Im sorry if this seems off topic to some but the news that this man has died brings back the memories of what friends have said to me about there own horrendous experiences and to thank whatever power that be that I live in a country that has in no way a similar form of government.

To again quote Churchill "democracy is the worst form of government except for everything else"

cllr


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Subject: RE: BS: Pinochet dies
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 09:24 PM

Pinocchio is dead? Oh, poor Gepeto.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pinochet dies
From: Greg F.
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 09:31 PM

And one hell of a lot more people died as a result of September 11, 1973 than in the World Trade center.

Funny how the U.S. has conveniently forgotten that....


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Subject: RE: BS: Pinochet dies
From: GUEST,dax
Date: 12 Dec 06 - 05:12 AM

Och Maggie, my deepest sympathy on the loss of your dear friend. I hope that he will again join you near that great cozy fireside! Your other dear friend Ronnie no doubt awaits your arrival as well!


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Subject: RE: BS: Pinochet dies
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 12 Dec 06 - 07:18 AM

But a lot more people died because of September 11 2001 - killed in Iraq and Afghanistan.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pinochet dies
From: Tom Hamilton frae Saltcoats Scotland
Date: 12 Dec 06 - 08:31 AM

tell that to the millions without work that Thatcher was good for this country.

mind you what the use arguing, let's agree to disagree.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pinochet dies
From: Greg F.
Date: 12 Dec 06 - 09:30 AM

Its down to the U.S. of A. again, McGrath. Only because of their bonehead response. It didn't have to be that way.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pinochet dies
From: Wesley S
Date: 12 Dec 06 - 10:06 AM

Our local paper ran a cartoon this morning that showed Pinochet walking through the clouds as if he were going to heaven. The traffic sign on the cloud said "Expect Delays".


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Subject: RE: BS: Pinochet dies
From: Peace
Date: 12 Dec 06 - 10:09 AM

I notice that Google's front page shows a painting which I think is called "The Scream". I wonder . . . .


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Subject: RE: BS: Pinochet dies
From: Tom Hamilton frae Saltcoats Scotland
Date: 12 Dec 06 - 10:10 AM

A person from Chile or a Tory after the Scottish election


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Subject: RE: BS: Pinochet dies
From: Tom Hamilton frae Saltcoats Scotland
Date: 12 Dec 06 - 10:11 AM

A peron from Chile that liked Pinochet.

no many


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Subject: RE: BS: Pinochet dies
From: Teribus
Date: 12 Dec 06 - 10:23 AM

Tam,

A question for you.

You have to buy product A you can buy it for £8, or you could buy it for £75.

What price would you pay.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pinochet dies
From: Wesley S
Date: 12 Dec 06 - 10:34 AM

Some things cost a lot more than money. The price tag doesn't always show the total cost.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pinochet dies
From: Wolfgang
Date: 12 Dec 06 - 04:09 PM

Milosevic found dead in cell

Interesting to compare these two threads from this year. To me, both men are about equally despicable.
The extra amount of hate I see for Pinochet I guess comes more from anger about what he destroyed than from the scale of his crimes.

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: BS: Pinochet dies
From: Tom Hamilton frae Saltcoats Scotland
Date: 13 Dec 06 - 10:00 AM

What a stupid bloody question?

what has that got to do with a mass murderer.

Any why argue, because you not going ot listen.

no matter what answer I give it will be the wrong one.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pinochet dies
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 13 Dec 06 - 10:01 AM

Could also be the sense that Pinochet got away with it, whereas Milosevic did not.


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