BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.

Subject: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 07:06 AM

Sad news again this morning that another young prostitute has been murdered. Police say a fourth woman missing and hasn't not been seen since late on Saturday.

Sadly the last time this happened in the late 1970's, I noted a national lack of sympathy because of their profession. We shouldn't judge anyone. They are people and still have a right to life.

Let's hope the police make a better job of this case than they did of the last Ripper one.

Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 07:13 AM

I did not notice a lack of sympathy, national or otherwise.

Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: 3refs
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 07:42 AM

There is a person in B.C. that has been associated with dozens of murders. He has recently been formally charged with 7, I think.

I understand the arguments for the abolition of capital punishment. Removing the possibility of executing an innocent person is the most prevalent.

So, let's change the criteria. A person shall not be executed on the sole basis of circumstantial evidence. Eyewitness testimony is unreliable at best. But if the guy is caught on video, at the scene, standing over the dead body(bodies)with the barrel of the gun still smoking, I say introduce him to "Old Sparky"!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 07:43 AM

Strange because I did. I remember reading in the papers at the time the initial fears and reactions of all women living in the area seemed to ease somewhat after it became clear all his victims were working women.

A lot of people sadly tended to take the attitude it was a risk that came with the job. Had they been traffic wardens or police women I would image there would have been a greater outcry.

Ah sure Keith, what would a thick paddy know about it anyway !

Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 07:47 AM

I remember anger and outrage, especially from women.

Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 07:59 AM

Not all Sutcliffe's victims were prostitutes anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: jacqui.c
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 08:19 AM

I remember the Sutcliffe murders well. Not being in the area they did not make me feel unsafe but I did feel for the families of the murdered women. I also felt sorrow and disgust at yet another sick puppy targeting women, be they prostitutes or not - they all had a right to be safe.

I'm not aware of the latest murders - I now live in the States - but despair of the same old same old - almost always a disturbed male taking out on innocent women whatever grudge he bears against one or two. That, it seems is always the excuse given when these monsters come to trial.

Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: Rapparee
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 08:22 AM

No man is an Island, entire of it self;
every man is a piece of the Continent,
a part of the main;
if a clod be washed away by the sea,
Europe is the less,
as well as if a promontory were,
as well as if a manor of thy friends
or of thine own were;

any man's death diminishes me,
because I am involved in Mankind;
And therefore never send to know
for whom the bell tolls;
it tolls for thee.

What they do or did doesn't matter. They are human beings.

Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: Alba
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 08:38 AM

Jaysus Keith if Divis said it was raining (and it was) would you feel compelled to contradict his opinion. That's a bit sad.


I sincerely hope it NOT another Sutcliffe out there.
I do remember that a lot of people were appauled at the horrific nature of Sutcliffe's crimes but there was an underlying current of well.... look what some of the Victim's did for a living
In my opinion there are Prostitutes who work in other areas of Business not just the sex Industry....!

As Jacqui says ALL Women have the RIGHT to be safe regardless of their job description.

Let us hope that this Monster is stopped as soon as possible.
I too now live in the States but will watch this Thread for any updates.

My Best to ALL
Jude

Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: Rapparee
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 09:02 AM

And there's Robert Pickton up in Canada, going to trial right now for at least 26 killings.

Why can't we seem to realize that people are people, no matter what?

Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 09:33 AM

Thanks Jude, thought it was only me noticed that !
Such responses just go over my head these days. Funny after I started the thread something told me that a certain individual would have some negative remark to make to me about it.
I must do the lottery this week !

These women are easy prey for creeps like this. When he's caught by the police no doubt we will hear of how his mother rejected him as a child, or his aunt kicked him in the balls when he was eleven. Or better still, God sent him messages.

Sadly some families will only hear the news for the first that their daughters were working girls instead of holding down a great job in an office somewhere. This will sadly add to their pain and suffering.

You will all be aware of what I think justice should be for men who attack, abuse or harm women.

Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: Flash Company
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 09:37 AM

This one looks particularly nasty, four in such a short period of time in a small area is pretty scary. Whilst 'the profession' of the victims may have helped to make them easy targets, I dont really feel that anyone in the Ipswich area can feel complacent. The next one could be a sixteen year old on her way home from a school Christmas Party. Profession has nothing to do with it, vulnerability is what it is about.

FC

Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: GUEST,Penguin Egg
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 09:38 AM

Why do they always go for prostitutes- why not the pimps?

Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: jacqui.c
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 09:45 AM

Because it's the women they have a grudge against and they are easier targets?

Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 09:49 AM

The bodies seem to be have been dumped and the murders took place elsewhere. These girls get into cars without arousing suspicion. The police have said examinations on the first two victims showed no signs of sexual assault.

Good point raised there Flash Company, he could graduate onto this, but sadly I imagine his victims walked quietly into their place of death without a struggle and that assisted him.

Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: GUEST,neovo
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 10:10 AM

I remember the time of Sutcliffe's so-called "Ripper" murders very well as I was living in Bradford at the time. As somebody above has said, not all his victims were prostitutes. One, as I recall, was a young university student. Women did feel very vulnerable - you wouldn't have gone out to a corner shop in Manningham on your own after dark.

Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 10:44 AM

"These women are easy prey for creeps like this."

Precisely. If they weren't there he'd likely be turning his attention to other victims.

Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: Hawker
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 11:10 AM

I was a young girl who lived in the area visited by the Ripper back in the 70s, believe me, there was NEVER a time that I felt safe because I was not a lady of the night! These kind of people make mistakes, they also are opportunist, who knows what is going on in this person's mind? it may be that these girls are easy prey rather than just that they are working girls. Nobody should take this lightly and no one should think these girls deserve the fate they have been dealt. For most there isn't a choice, they do their job out of need to survive rather than as a great career move. I'll keep them all in my thoughts and hope that whoever it is, is caught soon, the fear of going out knowing someone is preying on young women is terrifying, I remember it well.
Cheers, Lucy

Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: The PA
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 11:24 AM

'They are people and still have a right to life.'

I agree, but more to the point no-one has the right to TAKE their lives.

Hope they catch him/her soon, this must be terrifying for the local people.

Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 11:28 AM

On Monday of last week in a Belfast park there was one of the worst sexual assaults in recent times. A young girl in her twenties was subjected to a double rape then repeatedly beaten (held by one while the other kicked her about the face and body). She was then robbed of her handbag, mobile phone and £40.00. The attack took place at 6.15pm.


Two 13 year old boys were charged with the attack yesterday and appeared in a Belfast court his afternoon.

Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: alanabit
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 11:36 AM

Nobody anywhere deserves to die the way these women have. I have long thought that the really sick part of society's attitude is the need to see prostitutes as being something "lower" than themselves. Selfish, bullying crooks of all colours, even when exposed, get less despised than women, who spend a part of their lives selling sex. I also suspect that many of those women, whom we call prostitutes, are supplying sex in a more tangibly honest way than many others, who (ab)use it to get their way. Like many other posters, I feel for these tragic women and their heartbroken families.

Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 12:03 PM

This thread is no place for a personal squable with so much human grief and tragedy in the subject.
No need for your sneering reply was there Divis?
Two members who were local girls have said that there was NOT an easing of concern because of who the Yorkshire victims were.
Was I wrong to challenge that mistake Jude?

Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 12:16 PM

Clearly another case of get the boot into Divis no matter what the thread title is.

Please can we focus on the thread I started and think for one moment about the poor families of these victims and the young mothers and students out there tonight who sadly have little choice in their lives than only to sell their bodies due to personal problems and the risks they now face.

This thread is too serious, wait until an Irish thread starts up again and you can pick on me again then. Show some respect please.
Thank you
Divis

Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: Rasener
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 12:30 PM

Police investigating the deaths of three prostitutes have said they are concerned for two other missing women.

Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 12:49 PM

This thread is no place for a personal squable
Exactly so, Keith.

I feel uneasy at headlines like this:

Police investing murder of 3 prostitutes concerned about missing woman

Why not "murder of three women"?

Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: Tom Hamilton frae Saltcoats Scotland
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 12:53 PM

I just heard about tonight, Are we sure it's another 'ripper'.

I hope he's/she's not staying next door to you.


happy Christmas

Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: jacqui.c
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 12:56 PM

Exactly so Kevin - the media will sensationalise this type of event and it makes much better headlines when you can get sex involved as well.

Problem is - there are a lot of people out there who will eat up these salacious banners. Unfortunately that's just human nature.

Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: Partridge
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 01:30 PM

I remember well the in the 70's the fear that the Yorkshire ripper caused. I was living in Leeds at the time and worked at the ABC cinema in the centre of town. It meant getting the last bus home with a 5 minute walk to my home. I carried a metal afro comb in my pocket thinking this would put up a sort of defence if attacked. Knowing what we know now, I would never have had a chance to get the damn thing out of my pocket if I had been unlucky enough to be a victim.
I hope the women in the Ipswitch area stay indoors until this sick individual(s) is or are caught.
The media are not interested in anything else than the best headline, which is sad because you never know the real struggle that some of these women have had to put up with. it can't be an easy choice to sell your body. maybe it was their only choice - who knows.
I will think about this some more. In the meantime my heart goes out to their families and friends.

There is also another side to this, which will not be a popular thought. When the person(s) who have done this are found and the press do their thing, their families will have to go through hell as well. I have a friend whose son was an accomplice to a murder and the guilt that she felt over this was unsurmounable - she was a good mum and all that, but she kind of died with hers sons victim. So I will also have sympathy with the killers family.

Pat x

Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 03:20 PM

Sadly Tom it is unlikely to be other than a serial killer.
We can only hope that the missing two have just left the area without letting friends know.
That seems a slim hope.
Divis and McGrath, I remembered the Yorkshire case differently to Sweeney and said so.
That is not putting the boot in Divis .
Subsequent contributors have confirmed that my recollection was correct.
I am not someone who picks fights for the sake of it.
We disagree about IRA.
So what?

Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: Tom Hamilton frae Saltcoats Scotland
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 03:29 PM

I never said it was a 'ripper' as you say those two might be safe and well and tucked up in their beds tonight we don't know.

Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: fat B****rd
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 03:41 PM

According to BBC Ceefax this evening one of the missing women has made contact as recently as last night.

Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: Cluin
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 04:59 PM

The trial of the prostitute killer in British Columbia is expected to last a year.

Imagine being stuck on the jury for that one... giving up a whole year of your life, (probably) being sequestered and having to deal day-in-day-out with the details of the case. I think I'd do something drastic myself to get kicked off that jury.

Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: Bee
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 06:33 PM

Some of Pickton's victims were not even missed, for years, except by their working friends. To BC's credit, when the numbers finally emerged, there was general horror expressed by pretty much all, and without too much dwelling on the women's profession, other than to express shame that it took so long to see what was happening. More air time was given to the endless searches made by family members, often sisters of the disappeared, and often other prostitutes who had continually told police women were missing.

It is a very sickening case, and I wouldn't want to be a jury member either. Pickton is a despicable monster.

Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 07:03 PM

And then there are the women (also prostitutes, mainly) who keep turning up dead on the outskirts of Edmonton.

What can you say? To say it's horrible, reprehensible, sickening - any words you can come up with seem trite ...

Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 12 Dec 06 - 04:49 AM

No news.
What do folks think about legalising the sex trade?
I think that having to operate outside the law deprives women of the protection of the law.
Opponents say it would lead to more exploitation of vulnerable people but I disagree.
I know that neighbours object but there are ways around that too.

Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Dec 06 - 05:16 AM

De-criminalisation of some things seems to work in Holland. Unless someone tells me otherwise? These women are not criminals - the people who exploit them and live off their earnings are a different kettle of fish but the women themselves should never be branded as such.

Would 'making honest women of them' realy protect them any more though? Surely whatever their trade they should receive the same protection as everyone else anyway?

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 12 Dec 06 - 05:35 AM

they should receive the same protection, but as it is the police are always hastling them, moving them on or arresting them and their clients. The reult is that the girls do not feel that the police are there to help them.

Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Dec 06 - 05:47 AM

I fully agree with legalising Prostitution. Sending the business underground serves no purpose. The only ones that benefit are Crime Lords.

The profession goes back to the bible. There will always be men requiring a Bunk up.

Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: Penny S.
Date: 12 Dec 06 - 07:23 AM

The police have said that if he (reasonable assumption?) cannot find a prostitute, he will attack any woman out, and advised all women to stay indoors. Video showed the streets looking as though all the men were, too.

Penny

Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 12 Dec 06 - 07:28 AM

I do not think that the women of Ipswich needed that superfluous advice.
Sadly some of the girls had no choice but to go on working.

Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: Bee
Date: 12 Dec 06 - 08:26 AM

Yes, the sex trade should be legalized. Doing that wouldn't halt all abuses and dangers, but it would help.

Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: Tom Hamilton frae Saltcoats Scotland
Date: 12 Dec 06 - 08:28 AM

As a Christian, I agree with make prostitutes leagal. So that way they can get help.

Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: Wolfgang
Date: 12 Dec 06 - 11:05 AM

If a murderer targets a specific subgroup of the population I think this information should be in the article or even in the headline. We had a murderer targeting shop owners of Turkish origin only (once he made a mistake and killed a Greek origin shop owner). The information that the victim was a Turkish origin shop owner was a necessary information in those cases and gave a warning to the targeted group.

We should not even discuss that prostitutes may not be murdered (raped, assaulted, robbed, cheated), we should take it as granted.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Dec 06 - 12:16 PM

Two more bodies found - not identified on the news, but police suspect they are the two girls who were missing.

Blowz

Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: Cluin
Date: 12 Dec 06 - 12:19 PM

Monsters are real, kiddies.

Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 12 Dec 06 - 12:25 PM

They were found near where the third was found and police are assuming that they are the missing girls, one a mother of two.

To have killed five in so short a space of time is shocking even compared to previous killers.

Let us hope that his insane recklesness leads to his early capture.

Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: Cluin
Date: 12 Dec 06 - 12:27 PM

That wasn't the case in Whitechapel over a century ago.

Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Dec 06 - 01:39 PM

Thankfully forensics have moved on in the last century and he will be caught. Hopefully before he kills again, although I have a feeling there are victims to be getting into strangers cars as we 'speak.'

He will make a mistake as he gets away with more murders or an associate of his will be suspicious. Strange his dna hasn't led the police to him yet. Is he a new arrival to the UK? It seems incomprehensible that a man capable of these killings has no record. But then I don't really know enough about dna to know if it is quick to examine/foolproof.

The UK has had a spate of programmes lately all going into great detail about the gory tales of past serial murderers or serial paedophiles etc etc etc. The infamy gained from these kind of crimes is a turn on to a sick sick mind. He isn't doing it for sexual kicks. Power is a heady aphrodisiac.

I remember the Sutcliffe days well and the vigils held by women on the streets. I don't recall any apathy. Quite the reverse.

Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Dec 06 - 02:29 PM

The Whitechapel Ripper was a member of the Royal family. Many case studies proved this.

Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Dec 06 - 03:45 PM

A review of the work of the Forensic Science service in Northern Ireland found mistakes in more than a third of cases.


Thankfully forensics have moved on in the last century !!

In the last six years, the service had its accreditation suspended twice, after revelations of a falsified signature and lab practice concerns.

About 1,200 cases were checked and 555 were found to contain mistakes.

The UK Accreditation Service had suspended the service's accreditation.

A series of cases were checked between 2001 and 2003. In that two-year period it was responsible for about 2,400 cases - of those, a sample 1,200 were reviewed.

The firm found 555 of the cases contained mistakes - more than a third.