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BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.

Divis Sweeney 11 Dec 06 - 07:06 AM
Keith A of Hertford 11 Dec 06 - 07:13 AM
3refs 11 Dec 06 - 07:42 AM
Divis Sweeney 11 Dec 06 - 07:43 AM
Keith A of Hertford 11 Dec 06 - 07:47 AM
Keith A of Hertford 11 Dec 06 - 07:59 AM
jacqui.c 11 Dec 06 - 08:19 AM
Rapparee 11 Dec 06 - 08:22 AM
Alba 11 Dec 06 - 08:38 AM
Rapparee 11 Dec 06 - 09:02 AM
Divis Sweeney 11 Dec 06 - 09:33 AM
Flash Company 11 Dec 06 - 09:37 AM
GUEST,Penguin Egg 11 Dec 06 - 09:38 AM
jacqui.c 11 Dec 06 - 09:45 AM
Divis Sweeney 11 Dec 06 - 09:49 AM
GUEST,neovo 11 Dec 06 - 10:10 AM
McGrath of Harlow 11 Dec 06 - 10:44 AM
Hawker 11 Dec 06 - 11:10 AM
The PA 11 Dec 06 - 11:24 AM
Divis Sweeney 11 Dec 06 - 11:28 AM
alanabit 11 Dec 06 - 11:36 AM
Keith A of Hertford 11 Dec 06 - 12:03 PM
Divis Sweeney 11 Dec 06 - 12:16 PM
The Villan 11 Dec 06 - 12:30 PM
McGrath of Harlow 11 Dec 06 - 12:49 PM
Tom Hamilton frae Saltcoats Scotland 11 Dec 06 - 12:53 PM
jacqui.c 11 Dec 06 - 12:56 PM
Partridge 11 Dec 06 - 01:30 PM
Keith A of Hertford 11 Dec 06 - 03:20 PM
Tom Hamilton frae Saltcoats Scotland 11 Dec 06 - 03:29 PM
fat B****rd 11 Dec 06 - 03:41 PM
Cluin 11 Dec 06 - 04:59 PM
Bee 11 Dec 06 - 06:33 PM
GUEST,meself 11 Dec 06 - 07:03 PM
Keith A of Hertford 12 Dec 06 - 04:49 AM
Dave the Gnome 12 Dec 06 - 05:16 AM
Keith A of Hertford 12 Dec 06 - 05:35 AM
GUEST 12 Dec 06 - 05:47 AM
Penny S. 12 Dec 06 - 07:23 AM
Keith A of Hertford 12 Dec 06 - 07:28 AM
Bee 12 Dec 06 - 08:26 AM
Tom Hamilton frae Saltcoats Scotland 12 Dec 06 - 08:28 AM
Wolfgang 12 Dec 06 - 11:05 AM
GUEST 12 Dec 06 - 12:16 PM
Cluin 12 Dec 06 - 12:19 PM
Keith A of Hertford 12 Dec 06 - 12:25 PM
Cluin 12 Dec 06 - 12:27 PM
GUEST 12 Dec 06 - 01:39 PM
GUEST 12 Dec 06 - 02:29 PM
GUEST 12 Dec 06 - 03:45 PM
GUEST 12 Dec 06 - 03:52 PM
GUEST 12 Dec 06 - 04:10 PM
Blowzabella 12 Dec 06 - 04:26 PM
Hawker 12 Dec 06 - 06:03 PM
Blowzabella 12 Dec 06 - 06:48 PM
McGrath of Harlow 13 Dec 06 - 08:22 AM
jacqui.c 13 Dec 06 - 08:31 AM
McGrath of Harlow 13 Dec 06 - 08:49 AM
GUEST,blowz at work 13 Dec 06 - 09:13 AM
Keith A of Hertford 13 Dec 06 - 10:17 AM
McGrath of Harlow 13 Dec 06 - 03:06 PM
Mr Red 13 Dec 06 - 03:42 PM
jacqui.c 13 Dec 06 - 06:32 PM
McGrath of Harlow 13 Dec 06 - 07:12 PM
GUEST,Adam H 13 Dec 06 - 07:17 PM
GUEST,Swedish-ripperist 14 Dec 06 - 12:59 AM
John MacKenzie 14 Dec 06 - 04:07 AM
Keith A of Hertford 14 Dec 06 - 05:29 AM
GUEST 14 Dec 06 - 05:49 AM
Wolfgang 14 Dec 06 - 05:51 AM
Flash Company 14 Dec 06 - 10:41 AM
akenaton 14 Dec 06 - 01:56 PM
GUEST 14 Dec 06 - 02:11 PM
McGrath of Harlow 14 Dec 06 - 02:13 PM
Divis Sweeney 14 Dec 06 - 04:40 PM
Big Al Whittle 14 Dec 06 - 10:15 PM
Fiolar 15 Dec 06 - 09:15 AM
Flash Company 15 Dec 06 - 11:17 AM
Fiolar 16 Dec 06 - 08:29 AM
Tom Hamilton frae Saltcoats Scotland 17 Dec 06 - 07:53 AM
GUEST,Shimrod 17 Dec 06 - 11:10 AM
GUEST 17 Dec 06 - 12:43 PM
GUEST 17 Dec 06 - 12:46 PM
McGrath of Harlow 17 Dec 06 - 12:56 PM
GUEST 17 Dec 06 - 01:02 PM
Strollin' Johnny 17 Dec 06 - 03:13 PM
GUEST 17 Dec 06 - 03:25 PM
GUEST 17 Dec 06 - 03:28 PM
Richard Bridge 17 Dec 06 - 04:29 PM
GUEST 17 Dec 06 - 05:13 PM
McGrath of Harlow 17 Dec 06 - 07:39 PM
GUEST,Bainbo 18 Dec 06 - 04:50 AM
Emma B 18 Dec 06 - 06:21 AM
McGrath of Harlow 18 Dec 06 - 06:51 AM
GUEST 18 Dec 06 - 07:01 AM
Strollin' Johnny 18 Dec 06 - 07:33 AM
Wolfgang 18 Dec 06 - 07:50 AM
Strollin' Johnny 18 Dec 06 - 08:22 AM
Strollin' Johnny 18 Dec 06 - 08:24 AM
McGrath of Harlow 18 Dec 06 - 09:22 AM
GUEST,Bainbo 18 Dec 06 - 09:24 AM
GUEST,Bainbo 18 Dec 06 - 09:27 AM
Keith A of Hertford 18 Dec 06 - 10:01 AM
GUEST 18 Dec 06 - 11:27 AM
Strollin' Johnny 18 Dec 06 - 12:05 PM
Wolfgang 18 Dec 06 - 12:44 PM
JohnInKansas 18 Dec 06 - 02:06 PM
Tom Hamilton frae Saltcoats Scotland 18 Dec 06 - 02:41 PM
Tom Hamilton frae Saltcoats Scotland 18 Dec 06 - 02:45 PM
Strollin' Johnny 18 Dec 06 - 03:25 PM
The Villan 18 Dec 06 - 03:42 PM
GUEST 18 Dec 06 - 04:37 PM
Blowzabella 18 Dec 06 - 06:15 PM
SINSULL 18 Dec 06 - 07:55 PM
GUEST 18 Dec 06 - 08:21 PM
Emma B 18 Dec 06 - 08:33 PM
Tom Hamilton frae Saltcoats Scotland 18 Dec 06 - 08:41 PM
Charley Noble 18 Dec 06 - 09:11 PM
Keith A of Hertford 19 Dec 06 - 04:09 AM
McGrath of Harlow 19 Dec 06 - 06:30 AM
Emma B 19 Dec 06 - 06:39 AM
Strollin' Johnny 19 Dec 06 - 07:26 AM
Scrump 19 Dec 06 - 07:47 AM
GUEST 19 Dec 06 - 10:00 AM
Strollin' Johnny 19 Dec 06 - 10:27 AM
GUEST 19 Dec 06 - 10:52 AM
Strollin' Johnny 19 Dec 06 - 12:11 PM
Tom Hamilton frae Saltcoats Scotland 19 Dec 06 - 12:58 PM
Tom Hamilton frae Saltcoats Scotland 19 Dec 06 - 12:59 PM
Tom Hamilton frae Saltcoats Scotland 19 Dec 06 - 01:04 PM
Tom Hamilton frae Saltcoats Scotland 19 Dec 06 - 01:04 PM
Tom Hamilton frae Saltcoats Scotland 19 Dec 06 - 01:17 PM
GUEST 19 Dec 06 - 01:39 PM
Peter K (Fionn) 19 Dec 06 - 02:19 PM
GUEST 19 Dec 06 - 02:20 PM
alanabit 19 Dec 06 - 02:29 PM
Tom Hamilton frae Saltcoats Scotland 19 Dec 06 - 02:43 PM
Tom Hamilton frae Saltcoats Scotland 19 Dec 06 - 02:47 PM
Tom Hamilton frae Saltcoats Scotland 19 Dec 06 - 02:49 PM
jacqui.c 19 Dec 06 - 02:50 PM
GUEST 19 Dec 06 - 02:51 PM
Paul from Hull 19 Dec 06 - 02:52 PM
Tom Hamilton frae Saltcoats Scotland 19 Dec 06 - 02:58 PM
Wolfgang 19 Dec 06 - 03:00 PM
GUEST,01:39PM 19 Dec 06 - 03:41 PM
bobad 19 Dec 06 - 04:07 PM
Tom Hamilton frae Saltcoats Scotland 19 Dec 06 - 10:15 PM
Tom Hamilton frae Saltcoats Scotland 19 Dec 06 - 10:17 PM
Strollin' Johnny 20 Dec 06 - 08:50 AM
kendall 20 Dec 06 - 09:08 AM
Strollin' Johnny 20 Dec 06 - 09:33 AM
Tom Hamilton frae Saltcoats Scotland 20 Dec 06 - 10:28 AM
Tom Hamilton frae Saltcoats Scotland 20 Dec 06 - 10:31 AM
Tom Hamilton frae Saltcoats Scotland 20 Dec 06 - 10:39 AM
Strollin' Johnny 20 Dec 06 - 11:11 AM
Peter K (Fionn) 21 Dec 06 - 06:42 PM

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Subject: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 07:06 AM

Sad news again this morning that another young prostitute has been murdered. Police say a fourth woman missing and hasn't not been seen since late on Saturday.

Sadly the last time this happened in the late 1970's, I noted a national lack of sympathy because of their profession. We shouldn't judge anyone. They are people and still have a right to life.

Let's hope the police make a better job of this case than they did of the last Ripper one.


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 07:13 AM

I did not notice a lack of sympathy, national or otherwise.


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: 3refs
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 07:42 AM

There is a person in B.C. that has been associated with dozens of murders. He has recently been formally charged with 7, I think.

I understand the arguments for the abolition of capital punishment. Removing the possibility of executing an innocent person is the most prevalent.

So, let's change the criteria. A person shall not be executed on the sole basis of circumstantial evidence. Eyewitness testimony is unreliable at best. But if the guy is caught on video, at the scene, standing over the dead body(bodies)with the barrel of the gun still smoking, I say introduce him to "Old Sparky"!!!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 07:43 AM

Strange because I did. I remember reading in the papers at the time the initial fears and reactions of all women living in the area seemed to ease somewhat after it became clear all his victims were working women.

A lot of people sadly tended to take the attitude it was a risk that came with the job. Had they been traffic wardens or police women I would image there would have been a greater outcry.

Ah sure Keith, what would a thick paddy know about it anyway !


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 07:47 AM

I remember anger and outrage, especially from women.


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 07:59 AM

Not all Sutcliffe's victims were prostitutes anyway.


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: jacqui.c
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 08:19 AM

I remember the Sutcliffe murders well. Not being in the area they did not make me feel unsafe but I did feel for the families of the murdered women. I also felt sorrow and disgust at yet another sick puppy targeting women, be they prostitutes or not - they all had a right to be safe.

I'm not aware of the latest murders - I now live in the States - but despair of the same old same old - almost always a disturbed male taking out on innocent women whatever grudge he bears against one or two. That, it seems is always the excuse given when these monsters come to trial.


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: Rapparee
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 08:22 AM

No man is an Island, entire of it self;
every man is a piece of the Continent,
a part of the main;
if a clod be washed away by the sea,
Europe is the less,
as well as if a promontory were,
as well as if a manor of thy friends
or of thine own were;

any man's death diminishes me,
because I am involved in Mankind;
And therefore never send to know
for whom the bell tolls;
it tolls for thee.


What they do or did doesn't matter. They are human beings.


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: Alba
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 08:38 AM

Jaysus Keith if Divis said it was raining (and it was) would you feel compelled to contradict his opinion. That's a bit sad.


I sincerely hope it NOT another Sutcliffe out there.
I do remember that a lot of people were appauled at the horrific nature of Sutcliffe's crimes but there was an underlying current of well.... look what some of the Victim's did for a living
In my opinion there are Prostitutes who work in other areas of Business not just the sex Industry....!

As Jacqui says ALL Women have the RIGHT to be safe regardless of their job description.

Let us hope that this Monster is stopped as soon as possible.
I too now live in the States but will watch this Thread for any updates.

My Best to ALL
Jude


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: Rapparee
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 09:02 AM

And there's Robert Pickton up in Canada, going to trial right now for at least 26 killings.

Why can't we seem to realize that people are people, no matter what?


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 09:33 AM

Thanks Jude, thought it was only me noticed that !
Such responses just go over my head these days. Funny after I started the thread something told me that a certain individual would have some negative remark to make to me about it.
I must do the lottery this week !

These women are easy prey for creeps like this. When he's caught by the police no doubt we will hear of how his mother rejected him as a child, or his aunt kicked him in the balls when he was eleven. Or better still, God sent him messages.

Sadly some families will only hear the news for the first that their daughters were working girls instead of holding down a great job in an office somewhere. This will sadly add to their pain and suffering.

You will all be aware of what I think justice should be for men who attack, abuse or harm women.


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: Flash Company
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 09:37 AM

This one looks particularly nasty, four in such a short period of time in a small area is pretty scary. Whilst 'the profession' of the victims may have helped to make them easy targets, I dont really feel that anyone in the Ipswich area can feel complacent. The next one could be a sixteen year old on her way home from a school Christmas Party. Profession has nothing to do with it, vulnerability is what it is about.

FC


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: GUEST,Penguin Egg
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 09:38 AM

Why do they always go for prostitutes- why not the pimps?


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: jacqui.c
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 09:45 AM

Because it's the women they have a grudge against and they are easier targets?


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 09:49 AM

The bodies seem to be have been dumped and the murders took place elsewhere. These girls get into cars without arousing suspicion. The police have said examinations on the first two victims showed no signs of sexual assault.

Good point raised there Flash Company, he could graduate onto this, but sadly I imagine his victims walked quietly into their place of death without a struggle and that assisted him.


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: GUEST,neovo
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 10:10 AM

I remember the time of Sutcliffe's so-called "Ripper" murders very well as I was living in Bradford at the time. As somebody above has said, not all his victims were prostitutes. One, as I recall, was a young university student. Women did feel very vulnerable - you wouldn't have gone out to a corner shop in Manningham on your own after dark.


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 10:44 AM

"These women are easy prey for creeps like this."

Precisely. If they weren't there he'd likely be turning his attention to other victims.


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: Hawker
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 11:10 AM

I was a young girl who lived in the area visited by the Ripper back in the 70s, believe me, there was NEVER a time that I felt safe because I was not a lady of the night! These kind of people make mistakes, they also are opportunist, who knows what is going on in this person's mind? it may be that these girls are easy prey rather than just that they are working girls. Nobody should take this lightly and no one should think these girls deserve the fate they have been dealt. For most there isn't a choice, they do their job out of need to survive rather than as a great career move. I'll keep them all in my thoughts and hope that whoever it is, is caught soon, the fear of going out knowing someone is preying on young women is terrifying, I remember it well.
Cheers, Lucy


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: The PA
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 11:24 AM

'They are people and still have a right to life.'

I agree, but more to the point no-one has the right to TAKE their lives.

Hope they catch him/her soon, this must be terrifying for the local people.


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 11:28 AM

On Monday of last week in a Belfast park there was one of the worst sexual assaults in recent times. A young girl in her twenties was subjected to a double rape then repeatedly beaten (held by one while the other kicked her about the face and body). She was then robbed of her handbag, mobile phone and £40.00. The attack took place at 6.15pm.


Two 13 year old boys were charged with the attack yesterday and appeared in a Belfast court his afternoon.


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: alanabit
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 11:36 AM

Nobody anywhere deserves to die the way these women have. I have long thought that the really sick part of society's attitude is the need to see prostitutes as being something "lower" than themselves. Selfish, bullying crooks of all colours, even when exposed, get less despised than women, who spend a part of their lives selling sex. I also suspect that many of those women, whom we call prostitutes, are supplying sex in a more tangibly honest way than many others, who (ab)use it to get their way. Like many other posters, I feel for these tragic women and their heartbroken families.


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 12:03 PM

This thread is no place for a personal squable with so much human grief and tragedy in the subject.
No need for your sneering reply was there Divis?
Two members who were local girls have said that there was NOT an easing of concern because of who the Yorkshire victims were.
Was I wrong to challenge that mistake Jude?


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 12:16 PM

Clearly another case of get the boot into Divis no matter what the thread title is.

Please can we focus on the thread I started and think for one moment about the poor families of these victims and the young mothers and students out there tonight who sadly have little choice in their lives than only to sell their bodies due to personal problems and the risks they now face.

This thread is too serious, wait until an Irish thread starts up again and you can pick on me again then. Show some respect please.
Thank you
Divis


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: The Villan
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 12:30 PM

Police investigating the deaths of three prostitutes have said they are concerned for two other missing women.


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 12:49 PM

This thread is no place for a personal squable
Exactly so, Keith.

I feel uneasy at headlines like this:

Police investing murder of 3 prostitutes concerned about missing woman

Why not "murder of three women"?


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: Tom Hamilton frae Saltcoats Scotland
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 12:53 PM

I just heard about tonight, Are we sure it's another 'ripper'.

I hope he's/she's not staying next door to you.


happy Christmas


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: jacqui.c
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 12:56 PM

Exactly so Kevin - the media will sensationalise this type of event and it makes much better headlines when you can get sex involved as well.

Problem is - there are a lot of people out there who will eat up these salacious banners. Unfortunately that's just human nature.


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: Partridge
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 01:30 PM

I remember well the in the 70's the fear that the Yorkshire ripper caused. I was living in Leeds at the time and worked at the ABC cinema in the centre of town. It meant getting the last bus home with a 5 minute walk to my home. I carried a metal afro comb in my pocket thinking this would put up a sort of defence if attacked. Knowing what we know now, I would never have had a chance to get the damn thing out of my pocket if I had been unlucky enough to be a victim.
I hope the women in the Ipswitch area stay indoors until this sick individual(s) is or are caught.
The media are not interested in anything else than the best headline, which is sad because you never know the real struggle that some of these women have had to put up with. it can't be an easy choice to sell your body. maybe it was their only choice - who knows.
I will think about this some more. In the meantime my heart goes out to their families and friends.

There is also another side to this, which will not be a popular thought. When the person(s) who have done this are found and the press do their thing, their families will have to go through hell as well. I have a friend whose son was an accomplice to a murder and the guilt that she felt over this was unsurmounable - she was a good mum and all that, but she kind of died with hers sons victim. So I will also have sympathy with the killers family.

Pat x


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 03:20 PM

Sadly Tom it is unlikely to be other than a serial killer.
We can only hope that the missing two have just left the area without letting friends know.
That seems a slim hope.
Divis and McGrath, I remembered the Yorkshire case differently to Sweeney and said so.
That is not putting the boot in Divis .
Subsequent contributors have confirmed that my recollection was correct.
I am not someone who picks fights for the sake of it.
We disagree about IRA.
So what?


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: Tom Hamilton frae Saltcoats Scotland
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 03:29 PM

I never said it was a 'ripper' as you say those two might be safe and well and tucked up in their beds tonight we don't know.


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: fat B****rd
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 03:41 PM

According to BBC Ceefax this evening one of the missing women has made contact as recently as last night.


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: Cluin
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 04:59 PM

The trial of the prostitute killer in British Columbia is expected to last a year.

Imagine being stuck on the jury for that one... giving up a whole year of your life, (probably) being sequestered and having to deal day-in-day-out with the details of the case. I think I'd do something drastic myself to get kicked off that jury.


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: Bee
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 06:33 PM

Some of Pickton's victims were not even missed, for years, except by their working friends. To BC's credit, when the numbers finally emerged, there was general horror expressed by pretty much all, and without too much dwelling on the women's profession, other than to express shame that it took so long to see what was happening. More air time was given to the endless searches made by family members, often sisters of the disappeared, and often other prostitutes who had continually told police women were missing.

It is a very sickening case, and I wouldn't want to be a jury member either. Pickton is a despicable monster.


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 07:03 PM

And then there are the women (also prostitutes, mainly) who keep turning up dead on the outskirts of Edmonton.

What can you say? To say it's horrible, reprehensible, sickening - any words you can come up with seem trite ...


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 12 Dec 06 - 04:49 AM

No news.
What do folks think about legalising the sex trade?
I think that having to operate outside the law deprives women of the protection of the law.
Opponents say it would lead to more exploitation of vulnerable people but I disagree.
I know that neighbours object but there are ways around that too.


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Dec 06 - 05:16 AM

De-criminalisation of some things seems to work in Holland. Unless someone tells me otherwise? These women are not criminals - the people who exploit them and live off their earnings are a different kettle of fish but the women themselves should never be branded as such.

Would 'making honest women of them' realy protect them any more though? Surely whatever their trade they should receive the same protection as everyone else anyway?

Cheers

DtG


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 12 Dec 06 - 05:35 AM

they should receive the same protection, but as it is the police are always hastling them, moving them on or arresting them and their clients. The reult is that the girls do not feel that the police are there to help them.


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Dec 06 - 05:47 AM

I fully agree with legalising Prostitution. Sending the business underground serves no purpose. The only ones that benefit are Crime Lords.

The profession goes back to the bible. There will always be men requiring a Bunk up.


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: Penny S.
Date: 12 Dec 06 - 07:23 AM

The police have said that if he (reasonable assumption?) cannot find a prostitute, he will attack any woman out, and advised all women to stay indoors. Video showed the streets looking as though all the men were, too.

Penny


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 12 Dec 06 - 07:28 AM

I do not think that the women of Ipswich needed that superfluous advice.
Sadly some of the girls had no choice but to go on working.


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: Bee
Date: 12 Dec 06 - 08:26 AM

Yes, the sex trade should be legalized. Doing that wouldn't halt all abuses and dangers, but it would help.


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: Tom Hamilton frae Saltcoats Scotland
Date: 12 Dec 06 - 08:28 AM

As a Christian, I agree with make prostitutes leagal. So that way they can get help.


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: Wolfgang
Date: 12 Dec 06 - 11:05 AM

If a murderer targets a specific subgroup of the population I think this information should be in the article or even in the headline. We had a murderer targeting shop owners of Turkish origin only (once he made a mistake and killed a Greek origin shop owner). The information that the victim was a Turkish origin shop owner was a necessary information in those cases and gave a warning to the targeted group.

We should not even discuss that prostitutes may not be murdered (raped, assaulted, robbed, cheated), we should take it as granted.

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Dec 06 - 12:16 PM

Two more bodies found - not identified on the news, but police suspect they are the two girls who were missing.

Blowz


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: Cluin
Date: 12 Dec 06 - 12:19 PM

Monsters are real, kiddies.


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 12 Dec 06 - 12:25 PM

They were found near where the third was found and police are assuming that they are the missing girls, one a mother of two.

To have killed five in so short a space of time is shocking even compared to previous killers.

Let us hope that his insane recklesness leads to his early capture.


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: Cluin
Date: 12 Dec 06 - 12:27 PM

That wasn't the case in Whitechapel over a century ago.


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Dec 06 - 01:39 PM

Thankfully forensics have moved on in the last century and he will be caught. Hopefully before he kills again, although I have a feeling there are victims to be getting into strangers cars as we 'speak.'

He will make a mistake as he gets away with more murders or an associate of his will be suspicious. Strange his dna hasn't led the police to him yet. Is he a new arrival to the UK? It seems incomprehensible that a man capable of these killings has no record. But then I don't really know enough about dna to know if it is quick to examine/foolproof.

The UK has had a spate of programmes lately all going into great detail about the gory tales of past serial murderers or serial paedophiles etc etc etc. The infamy gained from these kind of crimes is a turn on to a sick sick mind. He isn't doing it for sexual kicks. Power is a heady aphrodisiac.

I remember the Sutcliffe days well and the vigils held by women on the streets. I don't recall any apathy. Quite the reverse.


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Dec 06 - 02:29 PM

The Whitechapel Ripper was a member of the Royal family. Many case studies proved this.


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Dec 06 - 03:45 PM

A review of the work of the Forensic Science service in Northern Ireland found mistakes in more than a third of cases.


Thankfully forensics have moved on in the last century !!

In the last six years, the service had its accreditation suspended twice, after revelations of a falsified signature and lab practice concerns.

About 1,200 cases were checked and 555 were found to contain mistakes.

The UK Accreditation Service had suspended the service's accreditation.

A series of cases were checked between 2001 and 2003. In that two-year period it was responsible for about 2,400 cases - of those, a sample 1,200 were reviewed.

The firm found 555 of the cases contained mistakes - more than a third.


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Dec 06 - 03:52 PM

here we go.. another smokescreen thread started by divis in the hope he can get back to his pet topic.


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Dec 06 - 04:10 PM

I doubt it. What has the Ripper to do with Irish politics ? Have you proof if was him ? I don't think so myself.


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: Blowzabella
Date: 12 Dec 06 - 04:26 PM

For lengthy intelligent discussion on the Whitechapel murders of 1888, see www.casebook.org


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: Hawker
Date: 12 Dec 06 - 06:03 PM

The 2 children of the woman suspected to be one of the five now have 2 issues to deal with - 1)they have lostr their mum forever and 2) it is now public knowledge that she was a prostitue, Poor kids having to deal with all that!
I will remember them in my prayers tonight.
Cheers, Lucy


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: Blowzabella
Date: 12 Dec 06 - 06:48 PM

That link, for enthusiasts of the Whitechapel Murders, should be http://www.casebook.org/

Sorry about that
Blowz


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 13 Dec 06 - 08:22 AM

"for enthusiasts of the Whitechapel Murders"

Good grief...


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: jacqui.c
Date: 13 Dec 06 - 08:31 AM

Kevin - unfortunately the Whitechapel Murders have become something that some people are enthusiastic about. Probably because they were never solved and were played up by the press of the day. Anyawy, there are gided tours of the area nowadays in addition to the regular rehashes by the press and the books and the films.......


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 13 Dec 06 - 08:49 AM

Interested in, obsessed with, fascinated by, perhaps. But "enthusiasm"...

"Rapturous intensity of feeling on behalf of a person, cause etc, passionate eagerness in any pursuit" - that dictionary definition matches what I'd take as the current meaning.

And I'm not just being pedantic - the impression that comes across, in relation to these murders, is that the attitude towards them is not that far removed from the sense in that dictionary definition. And that is what my "Good grief" meant there.


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: GUEST,blowz at work
Date: 13 Dec 06 - 09:13 AM

McGrath - the first reference to the Whitechapel Murders was made by guest - in a rather sweeping statement, suggesting that there was proof as to whom the murderer was. I placed the link to the casebook site, suggesting that it was a place for lengthy, intelligent discussion on the subject. I made an error in doing the link and so re-posted it correctly, however, it also struck me that the first comment was from somebody who was clearly not very well informed on the subject, but was interested in it and could, perhaps, therefore be described as an 'enthusiast'. Not the perfect choice of words, perhaps, but not a million miles away from a basically appropriate way to describe someone who has several books on any given subject on their shelves (or has borrowed said books from a library or a friend). As the original Guest said that 'many case studies have proved this', it would suggest they have done quite a bit of reading on the subject - of what, exactly, to have come to this conclusion, I am not sure, but that isn't the point.


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 13 Dec 06 - 10:17 AM

McGrath is a bit quick to judge right now.
He had a dig at me above.
All I did was question Sweeney's dodgy memory.


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 13 Dec 06 - 03:06 PM

McGrath is a bit quick to judge right now.
He had a dig at me above.


"A dig"? I expressed agreement with something you had written.

This thread is no place for a personal squabble
Exactly so, Keith.


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: Mr Red
Date: 13 Dec 06 - 03:42 PM

The sadness is that it can so easily be a crazed individual and without recourse to prostitutes he may just pick on any woman - it happened with the Yorkshire Ripper.

Applying logic to the thinking of these kind of people is never going to give quick answers - they don't run to the norms we run to.

As for the girls - my heart may go out to the families but it has to be remembered the women did put themselves at risk. And usually to feed a drug habit. There are other avenues and difficult though they may be for them - how difficult is the violence of death?


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: jacqui.c
Date: 13 Dec 06 - 06:32 PM

No - this person put them at risk. If they are feeding a drug habit it is probable that it is another criminal who got them started on that.

Sometimes there are situations where there appear to be no other avenues.


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 13 Dec 06 - 07:12 PM

Thee is no particular reason to believe that this killer is specifically targetting prostitutes. It is very probable that he is targetting women in general, and that prostitutes have been the easiest to attack up till now.


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: GUEST,Adam H
Date: 13 Dec 06 - 07:17 PM

I have just read the book based on actual facts and accounts of the Yorkshire ripper, can the police get it so wrong again? Only this time there are no known victims who survived, or am I wrong?


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: GUEST,Swedish-ripperist
Date: 14 Dec 06 - 12:59 AM

I know this might seem unsensative and uncaring but, as far as I understand the Ipswitch killer has an M.O of strangulation and why in that case call him the ipswitch "ripper"?? could anyone elaborate please.


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 14 Dec 06 - 04:07 AM

It's mainly because the British gutter press are only out to sell papers and too lazy to look for a more suitable title.
Their main reason is I believe the fact that it is prostitutes who are the victims, and the same was true of Jack the Ripper, but I don't know how he despatched his victims.
Giok


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 14 Dec 06 - 05:29 AM

sutcliff was called the Yorkshire Ripper and it seems to now be the generic name for serial killers of women. The label was applied before details of the killings were known


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Dec 06 - 05:49 AM

The London Evening Standard has started referring to the killer as 'the Suffolk strangler' which will most likely catch on with the other papers (or the tabloids at least) ere long.


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: Wolfgang
Date: 14 Dec 06 - 05:51 AM

Thee is no particular reason to believe that this killer is specifically targetting women. It is very probable that he is targetting humans in general, and that women have been the easiest to attack up till now.

Wolfgang (paraphrasing McGrath)


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: Flash Company
Date: 14 Dec 06 - 10:41 AM

Yes, as of this morning he has become 'The Suffolk Strangler'.
Doesn't really matter what you call the murdering bastard, he's still out there doing it!
His 'modus operandi' has now been linked to at least four other murders in the East Anglian area over a period of about fourteen years. The papers are, I think, perhaps being a little too free with detail, watch out for copy-cats!

FC


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: akenaton
Date: 14 Dec 06 - 01:56 PM

Mr Red.... To an addict, death holds no horrors.
Its is knowing that the next fix is not on the table that scares the shit out of them.

As far as female prostitutes are concerned, many have a child or children and are afraid that these children will be removed from them if they admit to addiction.

In most cases it is addiction to drugs that causes young girls to endanger themselves on the streets, and it is a disgrace that no government has made any real attempt to address the problems.

This sad story of some psychotic killer, probably "receiving care in the community"....which really means fuck all supervision with medication or the progress of their illness, is typical of governments attitude to drug abuse and mental health in general.

In our area we now have children of twelve and thirteen couriering drugs and selling themselves to feed their parents addiction.

Sometimes I despair of the human race...In reality we care about nothing but what affects us personally.
Thatcher and Blair have done a good job in turning thinking caring people into mindless morons.....Ake


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Dec 06 - 02:11 PM

Don't be too hasty to condemn the officially recognised mentally ill. The last 4 horrific murderers that spring to my mind - Sutcliffe, Neilson, West and the Soham one all held down jobs and had 'normal' lives.


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 Dec 06 - 02:13 PM

Respectable citizens, all of them. I'd b e astonuished if the same isn't true of this one - and I hope we find out before long, because that'll mean he's been caught.


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 14 Dec 06 - 04:40 PM

Catching this person will be difficult enough as from what I saw on the BBC page, he seems to be forensicly aware.
Glad to see several services in the area now helping these girls in every way they can.
So hard to read family members statements. Many lost their daughters to drugs many years ago. There is sadness out there than few of us can imagine.


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 14 Dec 06 - 10:15 PM

Murder is the new rock n roll.

The Yorkshire Ripper
The Suffolk Strangler
The Black Panther

From now on I wish to be referred to as..........
The Nottinghamshire Bastard

I see myself as the James Blunt of the genre, just murdering the acoustic guitar.


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: Fiolar
Date: 15 Dec 06 - 09:15 AM

Ipswich is no longer the lovely country town which it was when I moved there in the 1970s. In addition to the murder of the five girls, a man was stabbed outside a night club in the town and three people injured in a triple shooting. The incidents place on the early hours of December 9th. The stabbed man was taken to hospital, but died later.
I sure hope that they catch the scum who murdered the girls as it is likely that he is glorying in the publicity, but if he is never caught will have the same reputation as Jack.


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: Flash Company
Date: 15 Dec 06 - 11:17 AM

I know it aint a song thread, but if I was still singing I think I would work this up with suitable reference to Mary Magdalene:-

She was some mother's darling,
She was somebody's child,
Loving and gentle, before she went wild,
Somebody rocked her, their little darling to sleep,
But we left her to die, like a tramp on the street.

With due acknowlegement to whoever wrote it (Roy Acuff?)

FC


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: Fiolar
Date: 16 Dec 06 - 08:29 AM

The situation only gets worse. It has now been revealed that one of the murdered girls was three months pregnant.


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: Tom Hamilton frae Saltcoats Scotland
Date: 17 Dec 06 - 07:53 AM

Here in Scotland

a paper called the Sunday mail, reports as a small headline this terrible thing, but the most important headline for them is the Leona won x factor.

So XFactor is more imortant than these murders.

tom


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 17 Dec 06 - 11:10 AM

What hideous patterns we humans get ourselves trapped into! According to the more 'serious' papers (my only source of information, God help me!)there is every form of aberration involved in this story:

-Child abuse (previous research had shown that many 'sex workers' had suffered some sort of abuse as children).

-Drug abuse and dependency.

-Prostitution.

-Male clients of prostitutes, who have no respect for themselves or the women they buy sex from.

-A police force and law enforcement agencies who seem completely unable to either deal with the drug problem or to protect the prostitutes from casual day-to-day violence (although they probably regularly hassle them - which does nothing to resolve the situation).

And into this well understood but completely unresolved mess comes some monster from the extreme tails of the 'bell curve' who manages to pick off far too many victims before he's finally caught.
And the only ones to benefit from this horror are a prurient and gloating media. Oh yes, and the 'holier-than-thou' crowd who delight in telling us that 'prostitutes-are-human-too-you-know' (and before one of you starts on me, yes, I know they are and they all deserve a full and happy life free from the threat of violence or murder).
It seems to be that several people have to die before the supine and complacent authorities in this country stir into action - then they rush around like 'blue-arsed flies'.
I suppose that once the present furore has died down it will be back to 'business-as-usual' until the next monster rises from the blackest depths of the human psyche.


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Dec 06 - 12:43 PM

It is more often the case that drug habits fuel the need to prostitute themselves, but not always. An Ipswich prostitute sold her story to a tabloid last week, in which she proudly defended her choice of life style by claiming she needed to 'feed her family.'

The welfare system in UK allows everyone to 'feed their family.' So if this woman becae a victim of the sick out doing his killings at the moment, who would be to blame? The sicko for practising his chosen past time or the mother putting herself at risk NEEDLESSLY.

That story struck me as contemptible, she took her shilling from the tabloids willingly and puts her questionable reasons as cause enough to possibly render her kids motherless.


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Dec 06 - 12:46 PM

Sorry - I forgot to include that she proudly stated unlike most prostitutes she never touches drugs. In my mind the drug addicted are incapable of reasoned thought process and I can see why they are putting themsleves in the firing line. However the woman last week left me speechless.


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 Dec 06 - 12:56 PM

"However the woman last week left me speechless." Apparently not though...


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Dec 06 - 01:02 PM

I said speechless not incapable of using my fingers.


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 17 Dec 06 - 03:13 PM

So idle layabouts who scrounge off the taxes paid by those of us who work for a living are OK in you book, GUEST, whereas those who do whatever they can to support themselves, even though by doing so they put themselves at risk, are somehow contemptible?

What a strange, bemuddled world some people's heads live in.


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Dec 06 - 03:25 PM

No strolling - far from it. NONE of these women deserve to die, if that is what you think I mean.

My point was I can fully understand how women addicted to drugs prostitute themselves and thereby put themselves at risk of attack.

I can not understand how a woman not addicted to drugs can do the same.

The woman in question who by her own admission is not drug dependant, is happily claiming welfare benefit AND prostituting herself. Considering she is doing so on the streets of Ipswich and leaving two kids under five at home while she does so, I find contemptible. There is no excuse for her putting herself at risk.


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Dec 06 - 03:28 PM

Also having re read your post I also do not agree that everyone claiming state benefit is a scrounger - as you appear to think. I pay taxes and would rather this woman tried to live on the income support and not run the risk of leaving her kids motherless.


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 17 Dec 06 - 04:29 PM

Guest - wait till you need to feed and clothe kids, pay rent or a mortgage, buy fuel, provide for kids consumer expectations, all on the state benefit - and cannot go back to work because the kids need the time your employer will demand.

I haven't had to do it, but I used to know someone who had been through all of that.


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Dec 06 - 05:13 PM

Richard you insult the many thousands of lone parents who do manage to do just that on state benefit. What percentage of them do you actually think turn to prostitution to boost their income support? Miniscule. Nobody is saying people on state benfit live a life of luxury, far from it, but the majority manage without putting their lives at risk on the streets of Ipswich.

Like I said drug addicts are funding a habit that state benfit is not designed to support, so their reasons for being on the streets are understandable.


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 Dec 06 - 07:39 PM

I don't really think there's much point in slagging off the women involved in this.

Slag off the punters instead, that's quite a different matter.


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: GUEST,Bainbo
Date: 18 Dec 06 - 04:50 AM

37-year-old guy arrested at Felixstowe. The news is just breaking.


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: Emma B
Date: 18 Dec 06 - 06:21 AM

A 37 year old "loner" gave an interview to the Sunday Mirror yesterday protesting his innoncence - coincidence?


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 18 Dec 06 - 06:51 AM

Same man, name of Tom Stephens. But being arrested isn't the same thing as being charged, let alone being guilty. No call to assume it's all over yet.


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Dec 06 - 07:01 AM

Specially not when your face has already been in the Sunday papers, thus possibly prejudicing a trial??? Coincidence?


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 18 Dec 06 - 07:33 AM

Somebody might have already pointed this out but, strictly speaking, he appears not to be a 'Ripper'. He certainly is a bastard, however.

GUEST - I'm not at all suggesting that all benefits claimants are no-good layabouts, however I AM suggesting that to denigrate a woman for undertaking dangerous and unpleasant work is truly beneath contempt. It's bad enough that women should be driven by their circumstances to do this kind of work, without some pompous, anonymous prick trying to take the moral high-ground and set him/herself up in judgment over them.

Prostitutes aren't nymphomaniacs, shagging twenty men a night because they love it - they do it because it's a way out of poverty. They're human beings, doing what they can, and for that they deserve some respect at least.


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: Wolfgang
Date: 18 Dec 06 - 07:50 AM

The police have announced that they are in no need of further hints or information from the population. They surely consider the hunt being over.

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 18 Dec 06 - 08:22 AM

Tom Stevens has been arrested and is being questioned this afternoon about the five murders. (BBC 1'oclock news).


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 18 Dec 06 - 08:24 AM

BTW, the police spokesman actually said he's been 'arrested', which means they have more than just a suspicion it was him wot dun it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 18 Dec 06 - 09:22 AM

Not necessarily - it could just mean that he'd said he didn't want to continue with answering questions - "helping police with their inquiries" as they say. Being arrested means he can't just walk out of the station.

And as I understand it the police said they weren't making any further appeals for information - not that the existing appeals ceased to apply.


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: GUEST,Bainbo
Date: 18 Dec 06 - 09:24 AM

Guest of 07:01am:
"Specially not when your face has already been in the Sunday papers, thus possibly prejudicing a trial???"

Well spotted, Guest. You'd think it was obvious, wouldn't you? But apparently, the thrill of having a good story seems to be clouding editors' judgement.
The police are circulating a letter to the media, asking them not to publish material that may hinder the investigation, especially where identification might be an issue, or it may prejudice a fair trial.

They say: "We strongly advise you to take legal advice before naming any individual or individuals."

Funny how Mudcatters can spot the pitfalls, but not experienced meedja men. And his picture's still on the BBC News site.


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: GUEST,Bainbo
Date: 18 Dec 06 - 09:27 AM

Correction. The BBC's taken the picture off, presumably having got the letter, but have still got his name on.


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 18 Dec 06 - 10:01 AM

BBC R4 broadcast an interview with the man at lunch time.


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Dec 06 - 11:27 AM

So idle layabouts who scrounge off the taxes paid by those of us who work for a living are OK in you book, GUEST

Your words strolling - why are you so quick to deny them?

however I AM suggesting that to denigrate a woman for undertaking dangerous and unpleasant work is truly beneath contempt. It's bad enough that women should be driven by their circumstances to do this kind of work,

Like I said before, the woman in question who decided to capitalise on the sitation and sell her story to the tabloids, isn't being driven to endanger her life and possibly leave her kids motherless. She is a non drug user on income support who chooses to endanger herself and spotted another opportunity to make a quick buck out of the tragedy with the sleaze press. Wha a fine example of motherhood.

Save your sympathy for the lone parents who DO make ends meet and put their children first.


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 18 Dec 06 - 12:05 PM

Twat.


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: Wolfgang
Date: 18 Dec 06 - 12:44 PM

Interview with the suspect

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 18 Dec 06 - 02:06 PM

I've seen the headlines about an arrest being made, but haven't pulled up the articles.

Appropriate(?) comment would be that an "arrest" was made in a local (Kansas US) case known as the "BTK" killer. One local TV station published the guy's name immediately. The suspect was soon released, and the TV station just lost a $million+ defamation
suit. Unfortunately, the "victim" in this case just died (stress-related?) - apparently before any payment was made ...

John


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: Tom Hamilton frae Saltcoats Scotland
Date: 18 Dec 06 - 02:41 PM

Like sex workers


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: Tom Hamilton frae Saltcoats Scotland
Date: 18 Dec 06 - 02:45 PM

or am I a twat as well


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 18 Dec 06 - 03:25 PM

Whatevaahhhh..................


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: The Villan
Date: 18 Dec 06 - 03:42 PM

I am concerned that this bastard might be leading the police on and may be one of those perverts who likes to get their name in the press and take the police away from the git who did this.

I am with Strollin' on this. Just becuase they are prostitutes, doesn't give anybody the right to murder them.

If it is this bloke great and I hope that he gets whats coming to him, if it isn't then the bastard is still free to carry on.


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Dec 06 - 04:37 PM

NOBODY has said they deserved to be murdered.


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: Blowzabella
Date: 18 Dec 06 - 06:15 PM

I would just like to say that I was Guest at 7.01am and not any other Guest. I lost my cookie.


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: SINSULL
Date: 18 Dec 06 - 07:55 PM

TV News here claims that he called into a talk show and spoke about how he was a client of some of the murdered girls. A prostitue he visited yesterday says he insisted on seeing her home for her safety.
Creepy scenario.


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Dec 06 - 08:21 PM

The guy they are questioning was an ex-police volunteer and more recently (up to last weekend) a supermarket trolley collector. He is well known to alot of the girls on the streets. A self made guardian angel if you like. Colleagues and prostitutes alike are saying he couldn't be the man, incapable of it they say.

He is either a fantasist or the right man. They have until friday to charge or release him.


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: Emma B
Date: 18 Dec 06 - 08:33 PM

oh please don't let him be another "Wearside Jack"
Surely modern forensics should be able to sort this out!


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: Tom Hamilton frae Saltcoats Scotland
Date: 18 Dec 06 - 08:41 PM

I was going to write something really rude about Strollin Johnny,

but why bother


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: Charley Noble
Date: 18 Dec 06 - 09:11 PM

This will make a good read when it's eventually sorted out.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 19 Dec 06 - 04:09 AM

Another suspect arrested this morning.


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 19 Dec 06 - 06:30 AM

"oh please don't let him be another 'Wearside Jack'. "

"Wearside Jack" pretended he was a killer. This bloke has denied that he was. Not really comparable.


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: Emma B
Date: 19 Dec 06 - 06:39 AM

Of course you are right McGrath but I was hoping that, as in the case of "Wearside Jack", the police would not waste time and other lives by putting manpower and effort into persuing the wrong person who is merely attention seeking or has some other wierd motives.


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 19 Dec 06 - 07:26 AM

Feel free Tom, I don't give a shit - I've been insulted by experts, and at least you have the balls to identify yourself, unlike our anonymous, holier-than-thou GUEST.

Villan, thanks for the support but the aforementioned testicularly-challenged GUEST wasn't suggesting that these girls deserved to be murdered, and I'm not suggesting that he/she did say that. I merely objected to his derogatory comments about them which seem to be based on his disapproval of their line of work. Personally I'd rather they went to work, any kind of work, than be a burden on the taxpayer. That's all.

Happy Christmas to all my readers (even GUEST and Tom).
S:0)


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: Scrump
Date: 19 Dec 06 - 07:47 AM

The guy they've arrested seems a bit of a loser. It could be as others have said, that he is revelling in the attention being given to him by the media, and that he is innocent of the murders. I hope not, but it still seems possible at this stage (unless there have been any recent developments I'm not aware of).


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Dec 06 - 10:00 AM

Personally I'd rather they went to work, any kind of work, than be a burden on the taxpayer. That's all.

Strolling are you deliberately trying to mislead?

I referred to ONE woman who is both a 'working girl AND claiming income support and proud of the fact. She has no need other than greed. She has no addiction to feed. She has no reason to endanger herself other than greed. Like I said a fine example of motherhood.

You keep referring to people who claim benefit as a 'burden'. Do you honestly believe that the girls on the street are NOT claiming benefits? Surely you can not be that naieve.

I can understand how drug addicts need income from benefits AND prostitution. Can you?


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 19 Dec 06 - 10:27 AM

Had a lot of experience of drug addiction have you Guest? Well I have, as the parent of a long-term heroin addict who's never had a penny from the benefits system, so don't try to tell me about what addicts should and shouldn't do.

To answer your question about what I believe or don't beleive, I don't believe anything said by a bollockless, smart-arse anonymous guest is worth a toss. You're a twat, a waste of space and, more importantly, a waste of my time. Go swivel.


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Dec 06 - 10:52 AM

No wonder your son turned to drugs.


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 19 Dec 06 - 12:11 PM

Prick. Now fuck off and annoy someone who cares.


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: Tom Hamilton frae Saltcoats Scotland
Date: 19 Dec 06 - 12:58 PM

why bother eh!


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: Tom Hamilton frae Saltcoats Scotland
Date: 19 Dec 06 - 12:59 PM


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: Tom Hamilton frae Saltcoats Scotland
Date: 19 Dec 06 - 01:04 PM

that last post is what is inside SJ's head


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: Tom Hamilton frae Saltcoats Scotland
Date: 19 Dec 06 - 01:04 PM

Only kidding really


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: Tom Hamilton frae Saltcoats Scotland
Date: 19 Dec 06 - 01:17 PM

Any parent that allows their own child to take drugs and expects the Taxpayer to give them handouts (benefits) mus think that we're all stupid.
because no one forced your child to take the drugs only themselves did.

Happy christmas


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Dec 06 - 01:39 PM

Tom Hamilton

Your last comments are inexcuseable. You should apologise immediately.


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 19 Dec 06 - 02:19 PM

Feel better for, that,Tom H? SJ may bring it on himself, but it doesn't take much imagination to understand why.

Ake: on the button!

I'm inclined to agree with those who questioned Divis's recollection. I was living in Belfast at the time, but visited a friend who was a director at Leeds General Infirmary, and was astonished to discover that not a single nurse left the building unaccompanied. Without exception they paired up, or booked taxis, etc. Moreover, people in towns across most of NE England changed their lifestyles to avoid unnecessary risk.

Partly this was because the victims were not exclusively prostitutes. But I saw no evidence that the victims were valued less, or had brought their deaths on themselves, because they were street girls.

Wolfgag, your impression isn't quite right. The police in the present case have gone out of their way to emphasies that they still need help - for instance in finding the victims' clothes, and in identifying where the murders took place. They have said that the murderer may have had an accomplice and - no doubt in the light of past fiascos - they have remained open-minded to the possibility that the murderer might still be out there.


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Dec 06 - 02:20 PM

Has Teribus been questioned ?


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: alanabit
Date: 19 Dec 06 - 02:29 PM

I have very rarely agreed with a word Teribus has written. However, the trash from the previous, anonymous creep does not belong on this forum or anywhere else. I would rather have Teribus here than a coward like you.


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: Tom Hamilton frae Saltcoats Scotland
Date: 19 Dec 06 - 02:43 PM

I'M SORRY

why


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: Tom Hamilton frae Saltcoats Scotland
Date: 19 Dec 06 - 02:47 PM

as i say

why


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: Tom Hamilton frae Saltcoats Scotland
Date: 19 Dec 06 - 02:49 PM

i'm sorry


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: jacqui.c
Date: 19 Dec 06 - 02:50 PM

Tom - most addicts become addicts because some piece of slime pushed drugs on them in the first place. No suppliers, a lot less addicts and, quite often these days, the blame cannot be laid at the door of the parents, or anyone else but the dealers.

Unfortunately drugs seem to have become the new cigarettes - it is seen as being 'cool' to try them and peer pressure can be a mighty hard thing to resist for a lot of youngsters. The dirt out there that pushes this stuff is almost solely to blame for the present situation.

SJ - so sorry to hear that you son is a victim of this trade. As a parent and grandparent I shudder to think of the dangers that beset these children now.


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Dec 06 - 02:51 PM

A heroin addict who has never claimed benefit? Either he copes well enough to work or is too idle to get out of bed and sign on. Lets hope its the former otherwise his dad would have a 'scrounger' as a son. Ooooh the shame.


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 19 Dec 06 - 02:52 PM

Though the fact is neither here nor there in relation to the subject under discussion, many 'working girls' do not trouble to claim benefit, it seems.

I have worked with the Homeless, many of whom 'worked the streets' so I know this to be true.

As to why they dont, I really dont know.


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: Tom Hamilton frae Saltcoats Scotland
Date: 19 Dec 06 - 02:58 PM

did you know it takes a year to get addictied to these sort of drugs.

However I'm sorry


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: Wolfgang
Date: 19 Dec 06 - 03:00 PM

You're right, Peter, about what the police says. I had read what I had posted in a German online magazine, but have found no corroboration of that in any British online source.

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: GUEST,01:39PM
Date: 19 Dec 06 - 03:41 PM

Tom Hamilton

Thank you for responding. It's every parents' nightmare to find themselves in the situation that Strollin'Johnny has. The pressures are enormous on the whole family as you watch a loved one destroy themselves and find that you are helpless to do anything about it except hang on by the skin of your teeth and be as supportive as your resilience will allow. It's nigh on impossible to help someone who doesn't want to be helped. For the same reason I wouldn't condemn the choices of those poor girls.

This and the post I made at 01:39PM are the only two that I have made on this thread by the way.
Thanks for taking the time to read.


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: bobad
Date: 19 Dec 06 - 04:07 PM

British Police Arrest 2nd Suspect in Serial Killings

By ALAN COWELL
Published: December 19, 2006

LONDON, Dec. 19 — Moving in before daybreak, the British police raided a modest row house near the red-light district in the eastern town of Ipswich today to arrest a second suspect in the serial murder of five prostitutes — a case that has seized the nation's headlines.

The arrest came one day after police secured their first arrest, detaining Tom Stephens, 37, a former part-time police officer and supermarket worker, who was seized in the village of Trimley St. Martin in nearby Felixstowe, outside of Ipswich along the North Sea coast.

The murders, which British newspapers attributed to a killer they nicknamed the Suffolk Strangler, rank among the most lurid crimes against prostitutes since the so-called Yorkshire Ripper killed 13 women in the late 1970s and early 1980s.

The man arrested today was identified by the police as Steve Wright, 48 years old. Neighbors said he was a recent arrival on London Road in Ipswich and had come from another part of the town. He had a female companion, according to British news reports, but there was no sign that she had been arrested.

A police spokesman, speaking on condition of anonymity under police rules, described the man's arrest as "significant."

According to neighbors, police officers arrived at a house at 79 London Road at 5 a.m. local time and arrested a man described by neighbors as composed as he was led away. Then, the police removed the man's car and built screens and scaffolding around the house to secure it for a detailed forensic examination.

The police have not so far brought charges against either man for the murders of the five prostitutes, whose naked bodies were found near villages south of Ipswich over a 10-day period earlier this month.

The women have been identified by police as Tania Nichol, 19; Gemma Adams, 25; Annette Nicholls, 29; Anneli Alderton, 24; and Paula Clennell, 24. Ms Adams and Ms Nichol were found several days apart in a stream. The other three were found in wooded country, according to the police.

Police officials have said Ms. Alderton was strangled and Ms. Clennell died after "compression" on her neck. But the cause of death of the other three women has not been made public.

The case has cast a baleful light on a seamy side of a small provincial town, 60 miles from London, putting pressure on the small local police to handle a crime of national proportions. It has also drawn attention to the clientele.

On Sunday, Mr. Stephens, the first of the two suspects, told a British newspaper that he had known all the dead women and was a regular client among the town's prostitutes.

Another man, Ray Hollingsworth, told the Press Association news agency today that he was a writer who had visited the red-light district in Ipswich either for sex or for research for books. "I do think police have had eye-to-eye contact with the killer," he said. "I just feel it. I think the killer is known to them, it's a feeling I have."

From the NY Times


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: Tom Hamilton frae Saltcoats Scotland
Date: 19 Dec 06 - 10:15 PM

OK.

oh by the way my brother in Australia is an alcholic and I'm glad to say that he's doing something with his life now. He's seeing the AA and going for a meeting,

Love
Tom

So I can understand what SJ is going through as well, it is a nightmare, but at the end of the day the only one who can help is thenselves.

And I truely feel sorry for them and those other post where written by me I was just wasn't thinking that's all.

Merry Christmas and a happy new year


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: Tom Hamilton frae Saltcoats Scotland
Date: 19 Dec 06 - 10:17 PM

I just hope they have the right man/men


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 08:50 AM

Testicularly-Challenged Guest and Tom Hamilton, you are a pair of Shit-For-Brains. You clearly have no concept whatsoever of what the parents of addicts, or even the addicts themselve, have to face every waking hour of their lives. You are totally beneath contempt.

You've had your fun children, now go and find a busy road to play on.

Jacquie and others - thanks for your supportive comments, my son's history has been discussed in some depth on several other threads. He's working and staying clean, thanks to a lot of hard work and support by his mother, his brother and I. He was hooked into the drug scene by much older men when he was a young and impressionable lad of fourteen. He's been twelve years trying to shake the effects of those bastards off. He seems to be winning, but it's a race that's never over.

S:0)


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: kendall
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 09:08 AM

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone...not you, Mother"
Seriously, Judge not, lest YE be judged.


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 09:33 AM

"Testicularly-Challenged Guest and Tom Hamilton, you are a pair of Shit-For-Brains"

Just struck me that you may well NOT be a pair - you're quite possibly one and the same. In which event, "My case rests M'Lud".


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: Tom Hamilton frae Saltcoats Scotland
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 10:28 AM

Strollin' Johnny, I did say that I was sorry, but you haven't accepted it. And I am not the Guest either.

So I might have shit for brains but I can admit that i was wrong can you?
Tom (not guest).
I rest my case.

But then wny bother saying sorry to you because you didn't accpet my apology, so you didn't read my post did you my last one.

So why bother when you don't accept it.

Merry Christmas

And don't even reply to this or send me a PM either.

Tom


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: Tom Hamilton frae Saltcoats Scotland
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 10:31 AM

OK.

oh by the way my brother in Australia is an alcholic and I'm glad to say that he's doing something with his life now. He's seeing the AA and going for a meeting,

Love
Tom

So I can understand what SJ is going through as well, it is a nightmare, but at the end of the day the only one who can help is thenselves.

And I truely feel sorry for them and those other post where written by me I was just wasn't thinking that's all.

Merry Christmas and a happy new year. So I AM SAYING THAT I'M SORRY WHAT ELSE DO YOU WANT ME TO DO.

STROLLIN' JOHNNY I'M SORRY


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: Tom Hamilton frae Saltcoats Scotland
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 10:39 AM

Strolling Johnny,

this is my last message, I'M SORRY I KNOW WHAT YOU'RE GOING THROUGH IT MUST BE TERRIBLE HAVING TO GO THROUGH ALL THAT. I REALISE WHAT I HAD SAID AND I'M TRUELY SORRY FOR THAT, I WASN'T THINKING. AND I HOPE YOU ACCEPT THIS.

TOM


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 11:11 AM

Tom, I hadn't seen your PM until a couple of minutes ago. I've reponded positively. Thanks for the message, and for your recent posts, I appreciate your concern. And of course I accept your apology, thank you very much for that.
Good wishes (genuinely!)
John


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Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 21 Dec 06 - 06:42 PM

Well amid all the bitching into which this thread degenerated Bobad, at least, noticed that a second man had been arrested. That guy (Stephen Wright, aged 48) has been charged with all five murders, and the first man arrested (Tom Stephens) has been released on police bail.

BBC report


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