The Christmas Repeal - PEL law?

Subject: The Christmas Repeal - PEL law?
From: BanjoRay
Date: 13 Dec 06 - 07:46 AM

The BBC radio 4 Today Programme yesterday started a competition for listeners to write in about the law they would most like to see repealed and why. I think this would be an excellent chance for us to show what we think about the Public Entertainment license fiasco. The challenge - think up a good cogent, brief, well written and witty reason why this law should be repealed. The details are here on the Radio Four website
Cheers
Ray

Subject: RE: The Christmas Repeal - PEL law?
From: The Shambles
Date: 13 Dec 06 - 07:53 AM

Not a bad idea but to some extent there are some moves to correct a few of the problems presented by this Act.

Yesterday, Mon 11 December 2006, DCMS published its 'simplification plan', part of a government drive to cut red tape and associated costs:
http://www.culture.gov.uk/Reference_library/Publications/archive_2006/simplificationplan_2006.htm

Licensing is the focus of the DCMS response to the Better Regulation Commission (BRC). Among the measures proposed is 'Clarification of "incidental" music provisions':

'To make clear in legislation that the policy intention is to exclude e.g. carol singers, buskers, puppet shows for children and poetry readings from requiring a licence. This measure would most likely be delivered via regulation / and or Guidance.'
['Lifting the burden - Improving and realising community capacity', DCMS December 2006, 'Areas to be explored to achieve further reductions in administrative burdens', p23, para H - see URL above]

The deadline for implementation of any agreed changes is March 2007. Note that the Act includes a provision that allows the Secretary of State by order to add, vary or remove descriptions of entertainment (Schedule 1, Part 1, para 4

See the big thread for more details.

Subject: RE: The Christmas Repeal - PEL law?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 13 Dec 06 - 09:42 AM

I am going to vote for it anyway.

Subject: RE: The Christmas Repeal - PEL law?
From: Scrump
Date: 13 Dec 06 - 09:50 AM

It's the bit about coming up with a "good cogent, brief, well written and witty reason why this law should be repealed" that bothers me. It suggests the decision will be based on this criterion rather than whether the law itself deserves to be repealed. But don't let that stop people trying!

Subject: RE: The Christmas Repeal - PEL law?
From: IanC
Date: 13 Dec 06 - 09:54 AM

Erm ... Roger ... Knowing about those "moves" what possible harm can going for the Radio 4 thing do? At worst, it might put more pressure on the Govt to do some of the rather minor things it is proposing.

By the way WHY DO WE KEEP OMITTING FOLK DRAMA?

The November after the 2003 act was passed, I was personally invited by The Open Morris as head of my "side" (members of Open Morris) to join the celebrations in Trafalgar Square of tthe "Morris Exemption".

Can you guess why I refused in no uncertain terms?

Ian Chandler
Ashwell Mummers

Subject: RE: The Christmas Repeal - PEL law?
From: John J
Date: 13 Dec 06 - 11:46 AM

I just sent this:

The PEL, or Public Entertainment Licence that pubs etc need before they can allow music or singing on their premises.

eg: The Travellers Rest, Oughtibridge near Sheffield has for years been the venue for villagers to come and sing their traditional Christmas Carols in the bar. This has now been very effectively stopped by the Act.

The Bird in Hand, Mobberley, Cheshire has for years been the venue for various folk song, dance & music events, typically the Winter Solstice gathering of folk singers, musicians and dancers. Not any more, the PEL has killed off the event.

I am a singer of British traditional folk songs, but I am effectively barred from singing in many pubs because they don't have the requisite licence.

I cannot imagine why this licence was thought to be needed (by Kim Howells) in the first place, other than to kill off live (un-amplified) music and to raise more revenue. I have yet to hear a coherent argument from any quarter in support of this Act.

Repeal this senseless Act before it kills what little culture remains in England.

John

Subject: RE: The Christmas Repeal - PEL law?
From: Scrump
Date: 13 Dec 06 - 11:50 AM

Pity you couldn't get Scotland and Wales in there somewhere, as the main presenters are Jim and John (Scots and Welsh respectively). Does the law only apply in England, btw? I hadn't thought before whether it applied in Wales or Scotland.

Subject: RE: The Christmas Repeal - PEL law?
From: IanC
Date: 13 Dec 06 - 01:01 PM

Applies in Wales, not in Scotland.

Subject: RE: The Christmas Repeal - PEL law?
From: Cllr
Date: 13 Dec 06 - 01:16 PM

Scotland, it was explained to me,has health and safety regs thst apply to number of people in premises and illumineted exits etc but it is not legislated for what happens on the premises If this is true it seems a good place to start for looking at our own laws on this basis. cllr

Subject: RE: The Christmas Repeal - PEL law?
From: IanC
Date: 13 Dec 06 - 01:39 PM

Scottish H&S regs are much the same as in England. Just they appear to be sufficient in Scotland.

Subject: RE: The Christmas Repeal - PEL law?
From: The Shambles
Date: 13 Dec 06 - 02:30 PM

The Scottish Laws are set to change. I doubt very much if for the better.

But this with an eye on the next election - this Government may be more concerned about Scottish musicans/voters being upset about any changes.

Erm ... Roger ... Knowing about those "moves" what possible harm can going for the Radio 4 thing do?

None at all - I did say it was not a bad idea. I was simply pointing out theses moves.

Subject: RE: The Christmas Repeal - PEL law?
From: The Shambles
Date: 13 Dec 06 - 02:33 PM

eg: The Travellers Rest, Oughtibridge near Sheffield has for years been the venue for villagers to come and sing their traditional Christmas Carols in the bar. This has now been very effectively stopped by the Act.

The Bird in Hand, Mobberley, Cheshire has for years been the venue for various folk song, dance & music events, typically the Winter Solstice gathering of folk singers, musicians and dancers. Not any more, the PEL has killed off the event.

Is this still the position with these two venues? My understanding was that the Travellers Rest Carols events were permitted last year - has been stopped this year?

Subject: RE: The Christmas Repeal - PEL law?
From: The Shambles
Date: 13 Dec 06 - 02:36 PM

Please don't forget to also support, circulate and sign the new petition.

UK Licensing new petition

Subject: RE: The Christmas Repeal - PEL law?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 13 Dec 06 - 03:11 PM

From this thread

For numerous years in the past there has been a lunchtime/afternoon session at the Crown in Buntingford. This is no longer an optionj as the landlord and landlady have been to a meeting about the new licencing laws and feel they can no longer have us.

Repeal or amend, either way it's not working right, as we said would be the case. This seems a good way to remind a few people of that.

Subject: RE: The Christmas Repeal - PEL law?
From: BanjoRay
Date: 13 Dec 06 - 09:07 PM

Scrump said: It's the bit about coming up with a "good cogent, brief, well written and witty reason why this law should be repealed" that bothers me. It suggests the decision will be based on this criterion rather than whether the law itself deserves to be repealed.
The whole point of "cogent, well written etc" is to try and ensure it makes it on to the Today Programme, which is very fussy about what it broadcasts. If that doesn't happen then it's pointless.
Ray

Subject: RE: The Christmas Repeal - PEL law?
From: John J
Date: 14 Dec 06 - 10:49 AM

Freresh

Subject: RE: The Christmas Repeal - PEL law?
From: ripov
Date: 08 Jan 13 - 07:45 AM

Hot off the press

Deregulating_entertainment_licensingQA

Subject: RE: The Christmas Repeal - PEL law?
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Jan 13 - 12:44 PM

I don't see the point of tacking this on to a thread about the law prior to the 2003 Licensing Act as PELs were abolished by that act.

In any event it is old news