BS: Soldiers Convicted of Crimes in NI

Subject: RE: BS: Soldiers Convicted of Crimes in NI
From: Tom Hamilton frae Saltcoats Scotland
Date: 21 Dec 06 - 12:38 PM

THERE WERE ROSES
(Tommy Sands)

My song for you this evening, it's not to make you sad
Nor for adding to the sorrows of this troubled northern land,
But lately I've been thinking and it just won't leave my mind
I'll tell you of two friends one time who were both good friends of mine.

Allan Bell from Banagh, he lived just across the fields,
A great man for the music and the dancing and the reels.
O'Malley came from South Armagh to court young Alice fair,
And we'd often meet on the Ryan Road and the laughter filled the air.

There were roses, roses
There were roses
And the tears of the people
Ran together

Though Allan, he was Protestant, and Sean was Catholic born,
It never made a difference for the friends, it was strong.
And sometimes in the evening when we heard the sound of drums
We said, ``It won't divide us. We always will be one.''

For the ground our fathers plowed in, the soil, it is the same,
And the places where we say our prayers have just got different names.
We talked about the friends who died, and we hoped there'd be no more.
It's little then we realized the tragedy in store.

It was on a Sunday morning when the awful news came round.
Another killing has been done just outside Newry Town.
We knew that Allan danced up there, we knew he liked the band.
When we heard that he was dead we just could not understand.

We gathered at the graveside on that cold and rainy day,
And the minster he closed his eyes and prayed for no revenge.
All all of us who knew him from along the Ryan Road,
We bowed our heads and said a prayer for the resting of his soul.

Now fear, it filled the countryside. There was fear in every home
When a car of death came prowling round the lonely Ryan Road.
A Catholic would be killed tonight to even up the score.
``Oh, Christ! It's young O'Malley that they've taken from the door.''

``Allan was my friend,'' he cried. He begged them with his fear,
But centuries of hatred have ears that cannot hear.
An eye for an eye was all that filled their minds
And another eye for another eye till everyone is blind.

So my song for you this evening, it's not to make you sad
Nor for adding to the sorrows of our troubled northern land,
But lately I've been thinking and it just won't leave my mind.
I'll tell you of two friends one time who were both good friends of mine.

I don't know where the moral is or where this song should end,
But I wondered just how many wars are fought between good friends.
And those who give the orders are not the ones to die.
It's Bell and O'Malley and the likes of you and I.

There were roses, roses
There were roses

when will you ever learn.

Subject: RE: BS: Soldiers Convicted of Crimes in NI
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 06:33 PM

Sorry meant to add he has left now because you weren't nice to him. Hilters hencemen would of loved him, because he said soldiers shouldn't be pulled up for war crimes.

Subject: RE: BS: Soldiers Convicted of Crimes in NI
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 06:06 PM

He's the only fella in this thread who can back up his arguments to my way of thinkin'. What's the beef? I reckon he's got ya on the run.

Subject: RE: BS: Soldiers Convicted of Crimes in NI
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 05:58 PM

Absolutely....let him waste his time trawling the net for things that he believes or hopes people cant answer.

To answer him is also playing his game.

I get my pleasure from other things.

Subject: RE: BS: Soldiers Convicted of Crimes in NI
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 05:40 PM

No need for thanks paul. Laughing is easier than answering teribus's questions isn't it.

Subject: RE: BS: Soldiers Convicted of Crimes in NI
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 05:23 PM

Well said Guest Teribus.

Subject: RE: BS: Soldiers Convicted of Crimes in NI
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 05:17 PM

*ROFL* Thanks Guest: 05:15 PM...I needed that laugh!

Subject: RE: BS: Soldiers Convicted of Crimes in NI
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 05:15 PM

Guest 12.56 what teribus does do is (as you know) present indisputable fact and rip to shreds with fact the emotive lie laden utterings of the perpetual 'victim.'

The success of this becomes apparent when each time he does this we get a response such as yours.

The more pro IRA threads posted it becomes clearer that the pro IRA posters can not answer his questions and resort to insulting the man.

They are becoming a complete laughing stock now. You think they'd give up as they have not once been able to back up the drivel they post when they start the thread. They rely on a few plastic paddies - all uninformed to bang their drum. These plastic paddies have made a collective ass of themselves now.

It isn't comfortable watching grown men spew hatred and flounder when faced with reasoned argument. I guess they must enjoy the conflict here.

Thank god for teribus, without him some fools may actually begin believing the pro IRA crap peddled here.

Subject: RE: BS: Soldiers Convicted of Crimes in NI
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 12:56 PM

As an occasional visitor to this informitive site I can well understand the last note on Teribus he seems to be at war with everyone, those Threads on Bush and Iraq has this man dancing, I would advise all of those people who reply to this man not to do so, he seems to be emotionally unbalanced.

Subject: RE: BS: Soldiers Convicted of Crimes in NI
From: Den
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 10:35 AM

This information came from Armed Forces minister Adam Ingram in answer to a question posed to him by Ulster Unionist MP Lady Sylvia Hermon in Paliament last week.

Teribus, who are the sons of bitches you're referring to: mudcatters, people who disagree with you, people you appear to be unable to bully, Irish/heritage posters, the Irish in general, can you explain?

Subject: RE: BS: Soldiers Convicted of Crimes in NI
From: Teribus
Date: 19 Dec 06 - 08:55 PM

Guest Sorefingers,

You really haven't got a clue have you.

I have no idea what age you are, and while I may respect your feelings of pride in your Irish-Americam/ Irish-Australian heritage please don't confuse that with any sort of ability or insight as to what has been been happening in Northertn Ireland over ther past forty years, your perception of which appears to be governed by emotion and not by commonsense.

First of all ask yourself the question where your roots come from.

Then ask yourself what axe they had to grind to justify how they ended up in the position that they were in. Please note that for every one Irishman sent to Botany Bay there were four Englishmen sent there.

Then rationalise how that worked out against the bigger picture at the time.

DtG, has got it absolutelly right, while the military may hold back information the civilian courts cannot.

Now what did our "Guest" contribute:
GUEST
Date: 19 Dec 06 - 02:14 PM

Hey Teribus how's this for a balanced observation - You're crackers we're not. - Well then "Guest" you tell me - Would you actually be in place of Den, robbed by British Forces, or his Godfather killed by the IRA. Fine distinction but I'll give you an Nanno-second to think about it.

Another question - Did you lodge any sort of complaint to anyone? Had that happened to me I'd have fired off complaints to the following:

- Local Asylum( Now realistically what would they have to contribute to anything in a case like this - absolutely nothing which is why I didn't mention them in the first place)
- CO of the Regiment involved ("Put Teribus in the cooler" - You have have obviously no idea how military justice works - any complain must be addressed)
- Chief Constable RUC (fruitcake Teribus on the loose - hey man if you've got a complaint that has any foundation you go to the man at the top - now just tell me what is fruitcake about that?? Oh yes, you'd rather do fuck all than complain about it - Just exactly what the fuck are you? Sheep or men?)
- Ministry Of Defence (Warn everyone who lives near him - Huh this means what?? Totally illogical, the Ministry Of Defence is a "Him"?? Hey pal go away and educate yourself)
- Defence Secretary (Ex soldier suffering PDS - Hey - I would like to think of a time in the UK when the Secretary of Defence had any experience of life in the military)
- MP (So he can get your name of the roll in case you vote for him again - glad you picked up on the fact that I was talking about the Member of Parliament and not the Military Police)

In summation you really are a morally bankrupt collection of sons of bitches

Subject: RE: BS: Soldiers Convicted of Crimes in NI
From: GUEST,sorefingers
Date: 19 Dec 06 - 06:26 PM

Terribus is a poser, a troll with nothing but hateful things to say to peop;le about other people.

Go away Terribus and do the decent thing for your own sake! Get a life, get a job.

Subject: RE: BS: Soldiers Convicted of Crimes in NI
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 19 Dec 06 - 06:14 PM

Sorry - apologies in advance if I am wrong but may I ask if the source of this revalation is indeed the press? If not may I ask where the figures were published and who said they included crimes that they obviously do not?

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Soldiers Convicted of Crimes in NI
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 19 Dec 06 - 06:11 PM

The MOD are witholding details

Surely that is not possible is it? If my small knowledge of how the legal system works is correct an active serviceman charged with a criminal offence is tried in both the civil and military courts. While the MOD can, and in some cases should, withold details of disciplinary hearings the civil courts can offer no such anonimilty. Unless there is very good reason, such as the age of the defendent or for serious security purposes, a judge will not apply reporting restrictions on cases that have been tried. There would therfore be common record of all such convictions. As we have already established there is no such record.

So is this, once again, media sensationalism? Pretty much like Britains yobs topping the league tables? I would usualy give my Irish collegues here credit for more intelligence than to believe the popular press but I am begining to have some reservations in the light of some recent threads.

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Soldiers Convicted of Crimes in NI
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Dec 06 - 02:14 PM

Hey Teribus how's this for a balanced observation - You're crackers, we're not.

Another question - Did you lodge any sort of complaint to anyone? Had that happened to me I'd have fired off complaints to the following:

- Local Asylum(Ha Ha they would keep you)
- CO of the Regiment involved (Put Teribus in the cooler)
- Chief Constable RUC (fruitcake Teribus on the loose)
- Ministry Of Defence (Warn everyone who lives near him)
- Defence Secretary (Ex soldier suffering PDS)
- MP (So he can get your name of the roll in case you vote for him again)

Subject: RE: BS: Soldiers Convicted of Crimes in NI
From: Den
Date: 19 Dec 06 - 01:11 PM

That's right Keith and it looks less painful to boot.

Teribus, I didn't, because I felt at that time that it would be pointless. I didn't think anyone would believe me. You have to remember (I'm talking late seventies here) there were justifiable reasons why you didn't trust the authorities when you came from a nationalist background. I was young and to be honest with you I was relieved to just get away from them. They scared the hell out of me.

Subject: RE: BS: Soldiers Convicted of Crimes in NI
From: Teribus
Date: 19 Dec 06 - 12:52 PM

"Guest how's this for a balanced viewpoint. I have personally been robbed twice at gunpoint by British soldiers and my Godfather, a reserve police officer was shot dead by the IRA."

Hey Den how's this for a balanced observation - You're alive, you're Godfather isn't.

Another question - Did you lodge any sort of complaint to anyone? Had that happened to me I'd have fired off complaints to the following:

- Local Police Station (Ha Ha you might well say, but it's logged)
- CO of the Regiment involved (He must respond)
- Chief Constable RUC (He must investigate)
- Ministry Of Defence (Will ensure that the CO does his job)
- Defence Secretary (Open to greatest embarassment if no result)
- MP (So that he can then embarass the hell out of everybody on your behalf)

Subject: RE: BS: Soldiers Convicted of Crimes in NI
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 19 Dec 06 - 11:21 AM

I prefer how it reads with the comma!

Subject: RE: BS: Soldiers Convicted of Crimes in NI
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Dec 06 - 10:47 AM

Den didn't your mom ever tell you not to argue with arses ?

Subject: RE: BS: Soldiers Convicted of Crimes in NI
From: Den
Date: 19 Dec 06 - 10:25 AM

What's this world coming to. Sorry forgot the comma after "Keith" but I suppose it reads either way.

Subject: RE: BS: Soldiers Convicted of Crimes in NI
From: Den
Date: 19 Dec 06 - 10:21 AM

Sorry Keith got caught in the crosspost. The fact is we don't know that it is not true. The MOD are witholding details. I wish they would share what they know and a lot more besides but it is a start.

Subject: RE: BS: Soldiers Convicted of Crimes in NI
From: Den
Date: 19 Dec 06 - 10:19 AM

Before Keith pulls me up on my grammer. I meant to say, "for balance."

Subject: RE: BS: Soldiers Convicted of Crimes in NI
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 19 Dec 06 - 10:15 AM

Den you have posted in outrage that soldiers have been convicted of rape and murder in last six years in NI
Now we know that they have not.
I do not expect you to suddenly welcome their presence, but some acknowledgement that you misjudged them.
Not your fault.
The MOD said inculuding those categories but did not say that there were none in those categories.
You made a perfectly reasonable assumption, but it was wrong.

Subject: RE: BS: Soldiers Convicted of Crimes in NI
From: Den
Date: 19 Dec 06 - 09:45 AM

I wasn't going to come back to this thread after reading what went on after I left for the weekend but since people are continually bringing my name up I will counter with this. The information quoted was from the Ministry of Defence not my words. How many more times do I have to repeat this. The only piece I will consider withdrawing Keith is my reference to rape in this six year period. They mentioned sex offences that was my interpretation rightly or wrongly. Sex offence takes many guises and in an attempt not to incite further vitriol you may interpret sex offence however you like.

Teribus the devil is in the detail. You said above, "it looks like quite a number of our lads might have been convicted on "dodgy" evidence." "Might" being the operative word here. They might have been guilty of far more crimes that were never reported.

1200 cases requiring forensic tests. How many forensic tests do you think were conducted for traffic infractions? Not many I would suspect. I think forensic tests are indicative of more serious crimes.

For more detail on this information Teribus you are going to have to contact the Ministry of Defence although they seem to be recalcitrant in providing details. I wonder why because I like you would like there to be a full public enquiry into these and many more offences perpetrated by the British Government and its agents. If soldiers have been wrongly accused then they should be exonerated and likewise if the reverse is true then they should be tried for civil offences in civil courts like everyone else. Banging on about the number of offences committed by those charged with keeping the peace being only slightly better than the general populace flys in the face of law and order.

Finally although it is thread drift I utterly abhor what happened in Omagh and all those involved at whatever level of that heinous act should have the full weight of the law brought to bear.

Guest how's this for a balanced viewpoint. I have personally been robbed twice at gunpoint by British soldiers and my Godfather, a reserve police officer was shot dead by the IRA.

Subject: RE: BS: Soldiers Convicted of Crimes in NI
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Dec 06 - 08:16 AM

I listened to the broadcast re. the Omagh bombing and found myself sitting with a lump in my throat. I haven't heard many demands from Republicans to brink the perpetrators to justice. They are "soldiers" who have been by-passed in the name of "political expediency" Balance it up a bit boys and shout as loud for those victims.

Subject: RE: BS: Soldiers Convicted of Crimes in NI
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Dec 06 - 08:03 AM

We are repeating, repeating and repeating gentlemen.
Keith and Teribus there is a thread on collusion in the BS section.
Do you have nothing to add to it ?
Truth hurts.

Subject: RE: BS: Soldiers Convicted of Crimes in NI
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 19 Dec 06 - 07:57 AM

Thanks for putting in the time on that teribus.
I expect Den will withdraw all his posts about murder and rape now.


The man in Giock's programme is a Catholic.
I know it should not make a difference.

Subject: RE: BS: Soldiers Convicted of Crimes in NI
From: Teribus
Date: 19 Dec 06 - 07:51 AM

Singularly on topic:

Original Post
"The Ministry of Defence has revealed that over 1,346 soldiers have been convicted of crimes during the last 6 years in N. Ireland. The crimes committed range from traffic offences to killings but do not include other offences dealt with by the Army's own internal procedures, such as some robbers and sex offenders convicted by courts martial. The convictions hit a recent high in 2003, when serving soldiers were found guilty almost every day, 300 convictions. Considering these stats were gathered during a period of relative peace in the Province it would be interesting to see the figures for the years between 1970 and 1989. I won't hold my breath on that one. I am amazed however to see at least these figures released."

Aspects that have emerged that remain unackowledged and unchallenged:

The rate of conviction for crimes in the civil population of Northern Ireland excluding motoring offences is 1.9%

The rate of conviction for crimes amongst soldiers serving in Northern Ireland INCLUDING motoring offences is 1.5%

That would tend to demonstrate that in general the servicemen serving in Northern Ireland are more law abidding than the general population.

Convictions did reach a high in 2003. Servicemen convicted 300, or 0.8 servicemen per day, compared to civilian convictions of 96 per day, which seems to bear out what was stated in the paragraph above, particularly noting that the 0.8 per day rate includes motoring offences and the 96 per day rate does not.

In the period stipulated there have been no murder convictions or no rape convictions for any member of HM Forces serving in Northern Ireland.

With regard to figures for deaths and responsibility for those deaths between 14th July 1969 and 31st December 2001 we have the following:

British Security Forces - 362
Irish Security Forces - 5
Loyalist Paramilitaries - 1020
Republican Paramilitaries - 2056
Unknown/Unattributed - 80

Anyone "astonished", utterly, or otherwise about any of that???

Subject: RE: BS: Soldiers Convicted of Crimes in NI
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 19 Dec 06 - 07:48 AM

I hope people will listen to giock's programme.
It is an interview with a man bereaved of his son by Omagh bomb.2002
(no convictions yet. Anyone got any info. for police?)
The Sinn Fein council are blocking a memorial because it refers to bombers as terrorists.
Will anyone listen?

Subject: RE: BS: Soldiers Convicted of Crimes in NI
From: Black Beauty
Date: 19 Dec 06 - 06:07 AM

A constructive response would then be to say "I'm happy that you want to see peace and want to make amends". I am able to understand you and genuinely acknowledge the seriousness of the situation.


It's reasonable to want to negotiate for peace and forgive past deeds, and there is nothing wrong with that. The overall idea is that you should never be stubborn and vindictive in refusing to forgive someone.

I see some very sad people arriving this morning only to make trouble.

Charlotte

Subject: RE: BS: Soldiers Convicted of Crimes in NI
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 19 Dec 06 - 05:22 AM

Listen to this radio programme, this is what it really means to those involved. It's a totally different world to that inhabited by the distant dreamers, and the doctrinaire diehards.
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Soldiers Convicted of Crimes in NI
From: Teribus
Date: 19 Dec 06 - 05:02 AM

Oh, I almost forgot this on-topic gem from Divis:

"British soldiers charged with rape, GBH, domestic violence, robbery,glassing some kid at a dancehall and murder. Local papers often cover it. Hard to believe these guys are actually paid to keep law and order !"

So the PIRA Apologists criteria has changed from "Convicted or Crimes" to "Charged with Crimes". I know that the Provisionals were never really big on the concept of law and order, but there is a whale of a difference in somebody being convicted of something and someone being charged with something - the presumption of innocence until proven guilty concept applies here Divis.

Subject: RE: BS: Soldiers Convicted of Crimes in NI
From: Teribus
Date: 19 Dec 06 - 03:39 AM

So far, in the six year, period referred to in Den's original post I have not been able to find details relating to the trial and conviction of any member of HM Forces for rape in Northern Ireland.

Subject: RE: BS: Soldiers Convicted of Crimes in NI
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 19 Dec 06 - 03:37 AM

Yes. Sorry Al.
No one complains though when he calls me a liar.
(Or a lair, but that is another story)

Subject: RE: BS: Soldiers Convicted of Crimes in NI
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 19 Dec 06 - 02:58 AM

f--king hell Keith! I thought you were turning over a new leaf for christmas. already you're calling someone a liar.

if everyone was strictly telling the truth, the republicans, unionists, brits and irish would probably have very little to be snarling at each other about. and the world would be smelling sweet like one of glade adverts on telly, or like the winalot one one with nice music in the background and lots of handsome looking dogs running off into the sunrise....... towards a perfect world.

Subject: RE: BS: Soldiers Convicted of Crimes in NI
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 19 Dec 06 - 02:11 AM

divis, you have related tales of your run ins with army patrols many many times.
Each time the tale was exactly apposite to the discussion of the day.
In your first post here you remembered being robbed by one.
If it happened it was a crime and a breach of trust and you have my unqualified sympathy.
I have to say that you do sometimes tell deliberate lies to support your case.
There is one such exposed in this thread and I can give chapter and verse with proof of others.
You would make stronger arguments if you used examples that are common knowledge or verifiable as I try to do and Terribus is a master.

Subject: RE: BS: Soldiers Convicted of Crimes in NI
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 18 Dec 06 - 07:36 PM

Frankly I don't give a shit who you are Guest - you are strange.

I don't like to see you distressed DS. I would hate to think anything I said or wrote caused you distress.

the fact is though, whilst you were going through all that shit. People were living parallel lives over here. They were watching kids brought home in boxes - that they'd known only a few years earlier. And whatever their service in Ireland made them, they didn't leave here as scum - they were our kids.

I've heard you speak movingly of your losses and hurt during the troubles. I respect that.

But this storm of invective that I get on these threads doesn't make your feelings or you thoughts any more accessible. Some of the people who support you are just people with a talent for abuse. You deserve better friends.

Warm feelings of friendship

al

Subject: RE: BS: Soldiers Convicted of Crimes in NI
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Dec 06 - 06:15 PM

Sorry guys I am only having a little fun with you all.

Do you really want me to reveal myself ?
Show me your passions, your convictions,
your loves and I will know of who you are
and whence you go. And, if you say nay, I
shall not reveal myself to you, then it must
be said how little you think of yourself and
therein lies the answer. Beware of those
who do not reveal their true selves to you,
for if they are untrue to themselves, they shall
surely betray you as members failed me.

Clues

I am a member.

I have a a slightly receding hairline.

I have more pudge around my middle than I require.

My influence was drummer Billy Ficca.

I play a few instruments really badly. I play the drums very badly. And I play guitar and bass extremely badly. Pretty much the voice is what I have.

I live in the Midlands.

I don't like the Irish.

Answers on a postcard please.

Subject: RE: BS: Soldiers Convicted of Crimes in NI
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Dec 06 - 05:52 PM

Divis, you're one of lifes' great victims, always looking for someone else to blame.

Subject: RE: BS: Soldiers Convicted of Crimes in NI
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 18 Dec 06 - 05:42 PM

Divis, your post suggests that you are somehow a victim in threads like this.
Remember please that it is never the "English members" who start this muck running.

You say "I get the usual remarks that I am anti British army and anti British government. What the f... do you expect to get from me ?
That they are a fine bunch of lads and that I have no right to want unity for my country ? Sorry I have been on the receiving end of too much for that. What is in my heart will always be there.

You are all aware I am a republican and supported the Provisional IRA.
Does this exclude me from debate ?"

No one wants to exculude you.
We all know you are anti army. So what?
No one EVER suggested you had no right to want unity for your country. Most of us can not wait for you to get it.

Subject: RE: BS: Soldiers Convicted of Crimes in NI
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 18 Dec 06 - 05:29 PM

Divis, I have no argument with any of that.
I did not object to your post until you complained about the thread being taken off subject and back to the troubles.
You said it was done to "goat" you.
It was not done by the "English members"

Subject: RE: BS: Soldiers Convicted of Crimes in NI
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 18 Dec 06 - 04:44 PM

A very fair post Divis.

Peace to you.

Subject: RE: BS: Soldiers Convicted of Crimes in NI
From: Leadfingers
Date: 18 Dec 06 - 04:43 PM

200

Subject: RE: BS: Soldiers Convicted of Crimes in NI
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 18 Dec 06 - 04:40 PM

Another member started this thread as your aware. I arrived on it and gave an actual first hand account of an experience I had with a foot patrol in which I was robbed by them. Considering the title of the thread I felt my experience had some bearing. Keith refers to this post of mine as part of the drift.

My experience was not a one off incident, no point explaining the others, I will only get the rough end of the stick driven up my arse again for saying something against the British army.

If someone arrived here on a thread about the terrible events of September the 11th 2001 in America and they had been caught up in it I would imagine their first hand input would be welcomed.

The fact that I lived through the period which that has become known as "the troubles" and can relate incidents at first hand appears to be a problem to the gang on this site.

I get the usual remarks that I am anti British army and anti British government. What the f... do you expect to get from me ?
That they are a fine bunch of lads and that I have no right to want unity for my country ? Sorry I have been on the receiving end of too much for that. What is in my heart will always be there.

You are all aware I am a republican and supported the Provisional IRA.
Does this exclude me from debate ? Two members here seem to want me to personaly answer for every action the PIRA carried out between 1969 and 2005.

I support the leadership and the search for peace in Ireland, would you prefer I went the other route and said no to everything, just blow the bastards out of Ireland ? Sorry don't expect that from me.

I am who I am and if anyone has a problem with that, they are the one with the problem. Hope those who don't know who I am now have a better insight.

Peace to all over Christmas

Divis

Subject: RE: BS: Soldiers Convicted of Crimes in NI
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 18 Dec 06 - 03:11 PM

Wise words, WLD...things that have been in regrettably short supply for much of this thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Soldiers Convicted of Crimes in NI
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 18 Dec 06 - 02:41 PM

Any chance of a Christmas truce?

Subject: RE: BS: Soldiers Convicted of Crimes in NI
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 18 Dec 06 - 01:59 PM

I think its very unlikely that Ard and DS would feel the way they do without some legitimate cause for complaint. So I wouldn't jump up and down and wave your knickers in the air too quickly.

My reservations lie in the harshness of the invective, rather than the substance of what all parties have to say.

Subject: RE: BS: Soldiers Convicted of Crimes in NI
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 18 Dec 06 - 09:59 AM

BBC R4 broadcast an interview with the man at lunch time.

Subject: RE: BS: Soldiers Convicted of Crimes in NI
From: Teribus
Date: 18 Dec 06 - 09:59 AM

Good News, this information from another thread, would seem to indicate that the picture is not as bad as Den first feared:

"Subject: RE: BS: Looks like another 'Ripper' out there.
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Dec 06 - 03:45 PM

A review of the work of the Forensic Science service in Northern Ireland found mistakes in more than a third of cases.

Thankfully forensics have moved on in the last century !!

In the last six years, the service had its accreditation suspended twice, after revelations of a falsified signature and lab practice concerns.

About 1,200 cases were checked and 555 were found to contain mistakes.

The UK Accreditation Service had suspended the service's accreditation.

A series of cases were checked between 2001 and 2003. In that two-year period it was responsible for about 2,400 cases - of those, a sample 1,200 were reviewed.

The firm found 555 of the cases contained mistakes - more than a third."

I trust that taking this into account Unionist MP Lady Sylvia Hermon can now down grade her astonishment from "utter" to just plain "astonished", or possibly "gob-smacked". And I am sure, in the light of the astonishing information detailed above (There's seems to be a lot of astonishment associated with Northern Ireland) that Ard/Divis and Den will join me in resolutely campaigning for a full Independent Public Enquiry into all 1346 cases referred to in Den's post as it looks like quite a number of our lads might have been convicted on "dodgy" evidence.


So far, in the six year, period referred to in Den's original post I have not been able to find details relating to the trial and conviction of any member of HM Forces for murder in Northern Ireland.

Subject: RE: BS: Soldiers Convicted of Crimes in NI
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 18 Dec 06 - 09:57 AM

I know you are right Al.
I am going to try and wind my neck in a bit.
Keith.