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Origins: Weevily Wheat

DigiTrad:
WEEVILY WHEAT


Related threads:
Origins: Wheat in the ear - Weevily Wheat? (18)
Lyr Req: Charlie's Song (The Halliard recording) (9)


Goose Gander 14 Dec 06 - 10:56 PM
Goose Gander 14 Dec 06 - 11:03 PM
Flash Company 15 Dec 06 - 05:13 AM
Richie 15 Dec 06 - 08:14 AM
Richie 15 Dec 06 - 08:46 AM
Richie 15 Dec 06 - 09:18 AM
GUEST,Allan S. 15 Dec 06 - 11:58 AM
Goose Gander 15 Dec 06 - 08:05 PM
Goose Gander 15 Dec 06 - 08:28 PM
Richie 15 Dec 06 - 11:05 PM
Richie 15 Dec 06 - 11:18 PM
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Subject: Origins: Weevily Wheat
From: Goose Gander
Date: 14 Dec 06 - 10:56 PM

Because lines from this song turn up all over the place, and because we've discussed it in relation to Pretty Little Pink, and because it doesn't seem to have a thread of its own, here goes . . . .

WEEVILY WHEAT

Oh, Charley he's a nice young man
Charley he's a dandy
Every time he goes to town
He brings them girls some candy

Chorus:
Oh, I won't have none of your weevily wheat
I won't have none of your barley
I'll take some flour and half an hour
And bake a cake for Charley

Charley here and Charley there
And Charley over the ocean
Charley he'll come back some day
If he don't change his notion

Charley loves good wine and ale
And Charley loves good brandy
And Charley loves a pretty girl
As sweet as sugar candy.

Source:
John and Alan Lomax, American Ballads and Folksongs (New York: Dover Publications, Inc., 1934), p.290-291

From the Ballad Index . . .

Weevily Wheat

DESCRIPTION: "Charlie, he's a nice young man, Charlie he's a dandy." Stories about Charlie's attempts at courting and his visits to town. The mention of "Weevily wheat" and lines such as "Over the river to feed my sheep" are common
AUTHOR: unknown
EARLIEST DATE: 1911
KEYWORDS: courting nonballad playparty floatingverses
FOUND IN: US(Ap,So,SE)
REFERENCES (18 citations):
Randolph 520, "Weevily Wheat" (7 texts, some fragmentary or excerpted, 1 tune)
Randolph/Cohen, pp. 397-399, "Weevily Wheat" (1 text, 1 tune -- Randolph's 520A)
BrownIII 67, "Weevily Wheat" (1 text plus a possibly-rewritten fragment)
Fuson, p. 164, "Over the River to Charlie" (1 text)
Linscott, pp. 262-263, "Over the Water to Charlie" (1 short text, 1 tune, primarily a version of this although it incorporates a single verse of "Over the Water to Charlie")
Sandburg, p. 161, "Weevily Wheat" (1 text, 1 tune)
Scarborough-NegroFS, p. 286, (no title) (3 fragments)
Lomax-ABFS, pp. 290-293, "Weevily Wheat" (2 texts, 1 tune)
Lomax-FSNA 163, "Twistification" (1 text, 1 tune, with a counting chorus and modified verses)
Fowke/MacMillan 44, "Who'll be King but Charlie?" (1 text, 1 tune)
Creighton-Maritime, p. 125, "Charlie" (1 text, 1 tune)
Ritchie-SingFam, pp. 60-61, "[Charlie]" (1 text, 1 tune)
Opie-Oxford2 96, "Over the water and over the lea" (3 texts)
Baring-Gould-MotherGoose #144, p. 115, "(Over the Water and over the lea)"
Cohen/Seeger/Wood, p. 161, "Charley, He's a Good Ol' Man" (1 text, 1 tune)
Botkin-AmFolklr, pp. 813-814, "Weevily Wheat" (1 text, 1 tune)
Silber-FSWB, p. 36, "Weevily Wheat" (1 text)
DT, WEEVWHT*

Roud #729
RECORDINGS:
Granville Bowlin, "Charlie's Neat" (on MMOK, MMOKCD)
Kelly Harrell, "Charley, He's a Good Old Man" (Victor 21069, 1927; on KHarrell02, CrowTold02)
New Lost City Ramblers, "Charley, He's a Good Old Man" (on NLCR10)
Jean Ritchie, "Over the River Charlie" (on RitchieWatsonCD1)
Ritchie Family, "Charlie" (on Ritchie03)

CROSS-REFERENCES:
cf. "Roll the Tater (Rolly Rolly)" (floating lyrics, meter)
cf. "Fly Around, My Pretty Little Miss" (floating lyrics)
Notes: Certain authorities have conjectured that the "Charlie" of this song is Bonnie Prince Charlie. (Alan Lomax goes so far as to derive it from the Scots "Charlie Over the Water.") It would be hard to prove either way.
Those seeking to find every version of this song should also check "Fly Around, My Pretty Little Miss," which I think might be another version of this song. But others disagree.... - RBW
Well, I'd say they're at least siblings; at least one version of "Weevily Wheat" has the same tune as "Fly Around, My Pretty Little Miss." - PJS
Creighton-Maritime matches the Weevily Wheat pattern but includes the lines "cross the water to Charlie" and -- in the chorus -- "There's none like royal Charlie." In this sense at least it's close to Fowke/MacMillan 44. - BS
File: R520

Go to the Ballad Search form
Go to the Ballad Index Instructions

The Ballad Index Copyright 2006 by Robert B. Waltz and David G. Engle.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Weevily Wheat
From: Goose Gander
Date: 14 Dec 06 - 11:03 PM

Here's a related thread . . .

Go Home With the Girls in the Morning

Apologies for poor grammar in my opening post!


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Subject: RE: Origins: Weevily Wheat
From: Flash Company
Date: 15 Dec 06 - 05:13 AM

I heard this from Guy Carawan as:-

Step up to your weevily wheat,
Step up to your barley,
Step up to your weevily wheat
And bake a cake for Charlie

Charlie he's a fine young man,
Charlie he's a dandy,
Loves to hug and kiss the girls
And feed them on sweet candy,

The higher up the cherry tree,
The riper grow the berries,
The more you hug and kiss the girls
The sooner they will marry

Charlie he's a fine young man......
etc

My pretty little pink, suppose you think
I care but little about you,
Let you know before I go
I cannot live without you,

Charlie he's a fine young man......

Think that was all of it.

FC


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Subject: RE: Origins: Weevily Wheat
From: Richie
Date: 15 Dec 06 - 08:14 AM

Here's a version from The E.L. Simons Folk Song Collection:

Charlies he's a fine young man,
Charlie he's a dandy;
He likes to hug and kiss the girls
Whenever it comes handy.

It's Charlie here and Charlie there,
And Charlie over the ocean,
And Charlie he'll come back to me
Whenever he takes a notion.

I'll have none of your weevily wheat,
And I'll have none of your barley,
But I'll have some of the best of flour
To make a cake for Charlie.

Note from E.L. Simons (1952): It has been said that, because this song is so popular amoung Southerners of English and Scottish descent, it may apply to Bonnie Prince Charles, the "Young Pretender." See Randolph, Ozark Folksongs, Vol. III, p. 297-301.

You can listen on-line here: http://www.unc.edu/~breaden/Website/SongPages/songs_25_WeevilyWheat.htm


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Subject: RE: Origins: Weevily Wheat
From: Richie
Date: 15 Dec 06 - 08:46 AM

Here's a version from Missouri in the early 1900's: The Play-Party in Northeast Missouri by Goldy M. Hamilton

WEEVILY WHEAT.

This is like Mrs. Ames's version.

1. Across the field of barley,
      . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
      . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
    . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

Chorus
I won't have none of your weevily wheat,
I won't have none of your barley;
It takes some flour for about one hour
To bake a cake for Charley.

2. O Charley he's a nice young man,
Charley he's a dandy;
For every time he goes to town
He treats the girls on candy.

3. Oh, who's been here since I've been gone
Across the fields of barley?
A pretty little girl with a red dress on,
Over the fields of barley.

4. The higher up the cherry-tree,
The riper grew the cherries;
The sooner the boy courts the girl,
The sooner they will marry.

5. If I'd been here, and she'd been gone,
Across the field of barley,
I'd been sure to a-tried it on
Across the field of barley.

This fifth stanza was contributed by Mr. Wilson, a student from Monroe County.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Weevily Wheat
From: Richie
Date: 15 Dec 06 - 09:18 AM

SOCIAL LIFE AND SCENES IN THE EARLY SETTLEMENT OF CENTRAL ILLINOIS.
(By James Haines.)

The author mentions the date 1855 so this version would pre-date this:

OLD PLAY AND FORFEIT SONGS.


4.
I won't have any your weevily wheat
I won't have any your barley,
I won't have any your weevily wheat
To make a cake for Charley.

Charley he is a nice young man,
Charley he is a dandy;
Charley likes to kiss the girls
Whenever it comes handy.

Also listed is a Pretty Little Pink variant:

OLD PLAY AND FORFEIT SONGS.

We are marching down towards Old Quebec
Where the drums are loudly beating,
The Americans have gained the day
And the British are retreating.

The wars are o'er and we'll turn back
No more forever to be parted;
We'll open the ring and choose a couple in
Because they are true-hearted.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Weevily Wheat
From: GUEST,Allan S.
Date: 15 Dec 06 - 11:58 AM

I believe wheat and barley cold weather crops which could tie in with the weather in Ireland and Scotland? Note the use of the Barley in Scots Irish songs about Whiskey, brewing etc. Are they grown in the southern states??


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Subject: RE: Origins: Weevily Wheat
From: Goose Gander
Date: 15 Dec 06 - 08:05 PM

WEEVILY WHEAT

"Oh, come down hither and trip together
All in the morning early
Your heart and hand I do demand
'Tis true, I love you dearly"

Chorus:
"I want none of your weevily wheat
I want none of your barley
For I must have the best of wheat
To make a cake for Charley"

"If you love me as I love you
We'll have no time to tarry
We'll have the old folks fixing round
For you and I to marry"

"What, marry you, the likes of you?
Do you think I'd marry my cousin
When I can get just plenty of boys
For sixteen cents a dozen?"

"If you can get such boys as me
For sixteen cents a dozen
You better buy a load or two
And ship them down to London"

It's over the river to feed the sheep
It's over the river to Charley
It's over the river to feed the sheep
And measure out some barley.

Source:
Carl Van Doren, 'Some Play-Party Song from Eastern Illinois,' Journal of American Folklore, Vol 32, No 126 (Oct. 1919), p488

Notes:
"This again varies from any form I have encountered. It may be worth mentioning, as an illustration of the decay which had fallen upon the tradition of these songs by the last decade of the nineteenth century, in the township where they had been popular thirty years before, that the children were all familiar with a dislocated stanza from "Weevily Wheat" which they sang to tease one another, without knowing that it belonged to a longer song or that it had any connection with dancing -

Oh, Charley is a nice young man
Oh, Charley is a dandy
Oh, Charley likes to kiss the girls
Whenever they come handy" (p.488)

Interesting that this is a dialogue song that almost contains a narrative: Boy chases girl, girl turns him down, boy says he doesn't care (in not so many words).


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Subject: RE: Origins: Weevily Wheat
From: Goose Gander
Date: 15 Dec 06 - 08:28 PM

WEEVILY WHEAT

"J.D.A. Ogilvy learned this from Mrs. W.V. Hoagland, who had picked it up while teaching in Wyoming in the late 1890's"

Come down this way with your weevily wheat
Come down this way with your barley
Come down this way with your weevily wheat
To make a cake for Charley

Do you think I'd marry the likes of you?
Do you think I'd marry my cousin?
When I can get plenty of girls like you
For a cent and a half a dozen?

If you can get plenty of girls like me
For a cent and a half a dozen
You'd better buy a load or two
And ship them down to London

"Amzie Casner Tabor of Trinidad, Colorado, remembered this from around 1900 as a dance like a Virginia reel to teach children their multiplication tables."

I don't want none of your weevily wheat
I don't want none of your barley
Take some flour in the course of an hour
To bake a cake for Charley

Charley he's a nice young man
Charley he's a dandy
Charley he's the very lad
That feeds the girls on candy

Five times five is twenty-five
Six times five is thirty,
(and so on up to)
Twelve times five is sixty

Source:
Marjorie Kimmerle, 'Play-Party Song: "Weevily Wheat"', Western Folklore, Vol 18, No 3 (July, 1959), p. 238

Again, there's that dialogue bit in the first one, and - interestingly - clear evidence of the song's appropriation by a school in the second example.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Weevily Wheat
From: Richie
Date: 15 Dec 06 - 11:05 PM

I'm reposting this from "Ida Red Thread" here:

'Weevily Wheat', also titled 'Charley He's a Good Ol' Man', was recorded by Kelly Harrell in the 20s. Harrell adopts a female persona which seems appropriate given the associations with the 'single life' stanza. The NLCR songbook gives Harrell as its source but adopts a male persona and omits the 'Over the river' stanza. It is a widely known play party song that originally expressed Jacobite sentiments, but that context is long gone.

Uncle Dave printed his own version in his 1938 songbook. I will post it to the Uncle Dave Macon lyrics thread. I stand to be corrected, but I don't think Uncle Dave actually recorded it. Here's the Harrell version:

CHARLEY HE'S A GOOD OL' MAN

Chorus:
Charley he's a good ol' man
Charley he's a dandy
Charley he's a good ol' man
He feeds them girls on candy

Single life is a happy life
Single life is lovely
I am single and no man's wife
And no man can control me.

Over the river to feed your sheep
Over the river, Charley
Over the river to feed your sheep
On buckwheat cake and barley

Chorus

Don't wan' no more of your weevily wheat
Don't wan' no more of your barley
But I wan' some more of the best ol' flour
To bake a cake for Charley

Chorus

Charley he's a nice ol' man
Takes me out a-fishing
I put the bait on Charley's hook
It's nice to see him catch them

Chorus

Some folks marry for good looks
Some of them for money
But I'm gonna marry a country boy
Kiss him and call him honey

Chorus

Source: transcription of Kelley Harrell 'Charley He's a Good Ol' Man' recorded on 12 August 1927 in Charlotte NC and issued in January 1928 as Victor 21069. Reissued on Kelly Harrell 'Complete Recorded Works Vol 2 1926-1929' Document DOCD-8027.
--Stewie.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Weevily Wheat
From: Richie
Date: 15 Dec 06 - 11:18 PM

Not sure of the date on this and whether it's in the DT:

OVER THE WATER (Robert Burns)

Come boat me o'er, come row me o'er,
Come boat me o'er to Charlie;
I'll gie John Ross anither bawbee
To boat me o'er to Charlie.

CHORUS
We'll o'er the water, we'll o'er the sea,
We'll o'er the water to Charlie;
Come weal, come woe, we'll gather and go
And live or die wi Charlie.

I lo'e weel my Charlie's name,
Tho some there be abhor him:
But O, to see auld Nick gaun hame,
And Charlie's faes be ore him!

I swear and vow by moon and stars,
And sun that shines so early!
If I had twenty thousand lives,
I'd die as aft for Charlie.-

@Scots @Jacobite


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Subject: RE: Origins: Weevily Wheat
From: Richie
Date: 15 Dec 06 - 11:20 PM

Here's some info from Andrew Kuntz:

OVER THE RIVER TO CHARLIE [1]. Irish, Scottish, English, American, Jig or Song Tune. USA, West Virginia. G Major. Standard. AAB. The tune, states Bayard (1981), has been extremely popular as a vocal and instrumental air since the second half of the 18th century. Sometimes the order of the parts is reversed, or, in vocal sets, only the second half is used. Bayard's source learned the tune as a boy in West Virginia and related that people used to dance a "sword dance" to it, substituting crossed broomsticks for swords. Vocal versions of the tune (in either 6/8, 2/4 or 4/4 time) include "Billy O'Rourke the Bouchal" (Pa.), "Mr. Grumble" (Pa.), "The Battle of Harlaw," "The Baffled Knight" (The Shepherd's Son), "Sir Hugh," and "The Earl of Errol." Instrumental variants are usually in 6/8 time, he says, and appear as "Miss/Mrs./Mistress/Madam Casey/Cassey," "Is It Silk That's in Your Bag, My Boy" (An Sioda Ata id' Bhalluit, a Bhuachaill), "The Brown Wallet." Source for notated version: James Taylor (Wetzel County, W.Va., 1930's) [Bayard]. Bayard (Dance to the Fiddle), 1981; No. 555, pg. 493.

OVER THE RIVER TO CHARLIE [2]. AKA ‑ "Over the Water To Charlie." AKA and see "We Prefer Our Own King," "Wha'll (Who'll) Be King But Charlie," "Royal Charlie," "Fy Buckle Your Belt," "More Power to Ye," "Behind the Bush in the Garden [1]." Scottish (originally), Irish, American; Jig or March. USA: southwestern Pa.; Wetzel County, W.Va. A Mixolydian. Standard. AB. Bayard (1981) feels this tune has more claim to its title than other of the "River" or "Water" tunes, as it had Jacobite associations prior to its first printing. The earliest version found by him is in Capt. Simon Fraser's collection and appears as "Se'n Righ atha aguin is fear linn" (We Prefer Our Own King), and Fraser's notes indicate that it was known in Ireland as well as Scotland. By 1745, the high tide of the Jacobite rebellion, the tune was disseminated enough to be called "one of the incentives of rebellion" (Fraser) and soon became associated with the anonymous lyrics "Wha'll Be King But Charlie?" by which title instrumental versions are often known. Sources for notated versions: Emery Martin (Dunbar, Pa., 1946) and Scott Phillips (Wetzel County, W.Va., 1930's) [Bayard]. Bayard (Dance to the Fiddle), 1981; 557A‑B, pg. 496.

OVER THE RIVER TO CHARLEY'S. AKA and see "Chapel Hill March," "The New Rigged Ship [1]." Old‑Time, Breakdown. USA; Missouri, Arkansas?. The tune is known in England as "The New-Rigged Ship," while Galax, Va., fiddler Emmett Lundy called it "Chapel Hill March."
***

Over the river to feed my sheep,
And over the river to Charley;
Over the river to feed my sheep,
On the buckwheat cakes and barley.

***
Lyrics quoted in "Sketches and Eccentricities of Colonel David Crockett of West Tennessee," by J.S. French, 1833 (Charles Wolfe, The Devil's Box, Sept. 1982). Rounder 0157, Art Galbraith (Springfield, Mo.) ‑ "Simple Pleasures."


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Subject: RE: Origins: Weevily Wheat
From: Richie
Date: 15 Dec 06 - 11:26 PM

Here's another related item from Kuntz:

OVER THE WATER TO CHARLIE. AKA ‑ "Charley Over the Water," "Over the River to Charlie," "Over the Water." AKA and see "Ligrum Cush," "Lacrum Cosh," "The Marquis/Marquess of Granby," "Pot Stick," "Sean Buidhe/Bui" (Yellow John [1]) "The Shambuy/Shambuie," "Wishaw's Delight." Scottish (originally), English, American; Air, Jig and Morris Dance Tune (6/8 time, with an irregular measure in the 'B' part). A Major (Raven): G Major (Alewine, Kennedy, Kerr, Mallinson): D Major (Aird, Bremner, Gibbons). Standard. AABB (x4). A Jacobite (i.e. Highland supporters of Bonnie Prince Charlie) tune that was "improbably" introduced into British Guards regiments by 1764 (Winstock, 1970). That Winstock finds this improbable seems to be because the last Jacobite attempt to capture the throne of England was defeated at the Battle of Culloden in 1745, a mere nineteen years prior to the British Guards introduction. However, memories of the rising appeared to have healed even more quickly in the general populace of England, as evidenced by this excerpt from a letter written by Ralph Bigland in 1749 of an entertainment on the London stage (quoted by Emmerson, 1972):

***

I have since I came here [London] been lately two or three
times at the play and what invited me most was to see a
new dance called the Scots Dance consisting of about 20
lads and lasses dress'd after the Highland fashion. The
scene represents a very romantic, rocky, or mountainous
country seemingly, at the most distant view you behold a
glorious pair (which far surpass all the other actors) sitting
among the rocks, while the rest are dancing below among
groves of trees. Some are also representing with their
wheels a spinning; all the while the music plays either
Prince Charlie's minuet or the Auld Stewarts Back Again.
At last descends from the mountains the glorious pair
which to appearance is a prince and princess. Then all the
actors retire on each side while the royal youth and his
favourite dance so fine, in a word that the whole audience
clap their hands for joy. Then in a moment the spinning
wheels are thrown aside and every lad and lass join in the
dance and jerk it away as quick as possible while the
music briskly plays--Over the Water to Charlie, a bagpipe
being in the band. In short it was so ravishing seemingly
to the whole audience that the people to express their joy
clap their hands in a most extraordinary manner indeed.

***

Though the title stems from the Jacobite era, the tune is older and has had many names (given above as alternates--see notes for "Pot Stick" and "Sean Buide")—Kate Van Winkler Keller (1992) identifies "Charlie" as having been based on a 1740's dance tune called "Potstick." However, by the 1750's it appears in published collections with the "Over the Water" title. Bayard (1981) identifies that at some point the tune was altered and a new group of variations formed using the second half of the "Charlie" tune as the first strain and adding a different second strain. This second group is usually known as "Blow the Wind Southerly" (after song lyrics) or "Kinloch (of Kinloch)" {a title which first appeared in 1798 in John Watlen's Second Collection of Circus Tunes}. Early printings of the tune can be found in Oswald's Caledonian Pocket Companion (book 4, pg. 7, c. 1752), the Gillespie Manusript of Perth (1768), Jonathan Fentum's Compleat Tutor for the German Flute (London, 1766), and Robert Bremner's 1757 collection (pg. 16). A three-verse version exists in the Scots Musical Museum (1788) and it appears in Hogg's Jacobite Relics (early 1800's).

***

"Over the Water to Charlie" was employed variously as an accompaniment to dancing in the British Isles and was imported as a dance tune to America. A morris dance version was collected in the village of Bledington, Gloucestershire, in England's Cotswolds, while country dance instructions, but not the melody, appear in the Scottish Menzies Manuscript, 1749 (contained in the Atholl Collection of the Sandeman Library, Perth). The title appears in Henry Robson's list of popular Northumbrian song and dance tunes ("The Northern Minstrel's Budget"), which he published c. 1800, and in the music manuscript collections of Joseph Kershaw and Joshua Gibbons (see below). In America, the tune appears in Giles Gibbs' MS collection made in 1777 in East Windsor, Connecticut, and in the music copybook of Henry Livingston, Jr. Livingston purchased the estate of Locust Grove, Poughkeepsie, New York, in 1771 at the age of 23. In 1775 he was a Major in the 3rd New York Regiment, which participated in Montgomery's invasion of Canada in a failed attempt to wrest Montreal from British control. An important land-owner in the Hudson Valley, and a member of the powerful Livingston family, Henry was also a surveyor and real estate speculator, an illustrator and map-maker, and a Justice of the Peace for Dutchess County. He was also a poet and musician, and presumably a dancer, as he was elected a Manager for the New York Assembly's dancing season of 1774-1775, along with his 3rd cousin, John Jay, later U.S. Chief Justice of Governor of New York.

***

Words to the melody can be found in several collections. The following are from the Scots national poet, Robert Burns:

***

Come boat me o'er, come row me o'er,
Come boat me o'er to Cherlie:
I'll gie John Ross anither bawbee
To boat me o'er to Charlie. ‑‑

***

Chorus:

We'll o'er the water, we'll o'er the sea,
We'll o'er the water to Charlie;
Come weal, come woe, we'll gather and go,
And live or die wi' Charlie. ‑‑

***

I lo'e weel my Charlie's name,
Tho' some there be abhor him:
But O, to see auld Nick gaun hame,
And Charlie's faes before him!

***

I swear and vow by moon and stars,
And sun that shines so early!
If I had twenty thousand lives,
I'd die as aft for Charlie.

***

And these from the Ettick Shepherd, James Hogg (Jacobite Relics):

***
Come boat me o'er, come ferry me o'er,
Come boat me o'er tae Charlie
I'd hear the call once, but never again,
Tae carry me over tae Charlie.

***

Chorus:

We'll over the water, we'll over the sea,
We'll over the water tae Charlie.
Come weel, come woe, we'll gather and go
And live or die with Charlie.
***

I swear by moon and stars sae bright,
And sun that shines sae Dearly,
I would give twenty‑thousand lives
I'd given them all for Charlie.

***
Once I had sons, but now I've gat nane,
I've treated them all sae sairly.
But I would bear them all again,
And lose them all for Charlie

***

In old Britain it was customary to drink to the monarch at all convivial gatherings, a custom known as the 'loyal toast'. Those with Jacobite sympathies managed to make this a palatable experience by surreptitiously "holding their glasses over the water-bottle, thereby signifying to those in the secret that they drank to 'The King over the Water'—to the exiled Stuart, not to the usurping Hanoverian" (Hawkwook, 1909).

***

Sources for notated versions: John White (Greene County, Pa., 1930's) and Thomas Patterson (Elizabeth, Pa., 1930's) [Bayard]; the manuscript of Captain George Bush (1753?-1797), a fiddler and officer in the Continental Army during the American Revolution [Keller]; contained in the Joseph Kershaw manuscript—Kershaw was a fiddler who lived in Slackcote, Saddleworth, North West England, in the 19th century, and his manuscript dates from around 1820 onwards; the 1823-26 music mss of papermaker and musician Joshua Gibbons (1778-1871, of Tealby, near Market Rasen, Lincolnshire Wolds) [Sumner]. Aird (Selection), vol. II, 1782; No. 31, pg. 12. Alewine (Maid that Cut Off the Chicken's Lips), 1987; pg. 28. Bacon (The Morris Ring), 1974; pg. 81. Bayard (Dance to the Fiddle), 1981; No. 556A‑B, pgs. 494‑495. Bremner (A Collection of Scots Reels), 1757; pg. 16. Hall & Stafford (Charlton Memorial Tune Book), 1974; pg. 18. Keller (Fiddle Tunes from the American Revolution), 1992; pg. 20. Kennedy (Fiddlers Tune Book), vol. 2, 1954; pg. 38. Kerr (Merry Melodies), vol. 1; No. 6, pg. 31. The Joseph Kershaw Manuscript, 1993; No. 13 (appears as "Water & Charley"). Mallinson (Mally's Cotswold Morris Book), 1988; No. 16, pg. 14. Raven (English Country Dance Tunes), 1984; pg. 78 (morris version). Sumner (Lincolnshire Collections, vol. 1: The Joshua Gibbons Manuscript), 1997; pg. 20. Folk‑Legacy Records FSI‑42, The New Golden Ring - "Five Days Singing, vol II."


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Subject: RE: Origins: Weevily Wheat
From: Richie
Date: 15 Dec 06 - 11:50 PM

Here's a translation of Burn's "O'er The Water To Charlie:"

Over The Water To Charlie

Chorus
We will over the water, We will over the sea,
We will over the water to Charlie!
Come well, come woe, we will gather and go,
And live and die with Charlie!

Come boat me over, come row me over,
Come boat me over to Charlie!
I will give John Ross another half-penny
To boat me over to Charlie.

I love well my Charlie's name,
Though some there be abhor him;
But O, to see Old Nick going home,
And Charlie's foes before him!

I swear and vow by moon and stars
And sun that shines so early,
If I had twenty thousand lives,
I would die as often for Charlie!


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Subject: RE: Origins: Weevily Wheat
From: Richie
Date: 15 Dec 06 - 11:59 PM

Songs of the Carolina Charter Colonists, 1663-1763
Chapter IV
Nursery Dance And Game, Comic and Humorous Songs

WEEVILY WHEAT: BCNCF V. 521. Described by Botkin (The American Play-Party Song, 345) as "A Virginia reel related to the Scotch Weaving Game.... Based on a Jacobite song of Bonnie Prince Charles Stuart, the Pretender." Compare "Come Boat Me O'er" and "Over the Water to Charlie."


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Subject: RE: Origins: Weevily Wheat
From: Peace
Date: 16 Dec 06 - 04:00 AM

CHRISTMAS EVE [4]. AKA and see "Weevily Wheat," "Willy and Evil." Old-Time, Breakdown. USA, Kentucky. D Major. Standard or ADae. AABB (Monday/Titon): ABBCC' (Bowles/Titon): AABB'CC' (Bowles/Phillips). The tune, played slower than a normal breakdown, was learned by south-central Kentucky fiddler Jim Bowles (b. 1903) from local musicians--it was not widely known outside the area. Phillips notates the 'A' part as irregular, with a measure of 3/4 and a measure of 2/4 time in an otherwise cut time piece. Titon notates Bowles' version entirely in 2/2, with no irregular measure. The melody was also in the repertoire of Isham Monday, who like Bowles played it in ADae although he tuned his fiddle low, sounding below standard 'C'. Titon (2001) finds variants of "Christmas Eve" in "Weevily Wheat" and "Willy and Evil." Bruce Greene says "Christmas Eve" dates to pre-Civil War era. The melody was also in the repertoire of African-American fiddler John Lusk (Ky.), who recorded the melody (along with musicians Murph Gribble and Albert York) for the Library of Congress (AFS 8511). Sources for notated versions: Jim Bowles (Rockbridge, Monroe County, Ky., 1959) [Phillips, Titon]; Isham Monday (Tompkinsveille, Monroe County, Ky., 1959) [Titon]. Phillips (Traditional American Fiddle Tunes), vol. 2, 1995; pg. 31. Titon (Old-Time Kentucky Fiddle Tunes), 2001; No. 24A & B, pg. 59.


from

www.ibiblio.org/fiddlers/WE_WEK.htm


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Subject: RE: Origins: Weevily Wheat
From: Richie
Date: 16 Dec 06 - 07:47 AM

Here's Uncle Dave Macon's version posted by Stewie:

Uncle Dave's version of 'Weevily Wheat' was printed in his 1938 songbook, but I don't think he recorded it.

WEEVILY WHEAT

' Way down yonder in the maple swamp
The water's deep and muddy
There I spied my pretty little miss
Oh there I spied my honey

Chorus:
Weevily wheat ain't fit to eat
And neither is your barley
Have some flour in half an hour
To bake a cake for Charley

How old are you my pretty little miss?
How old are you, my honey?
She answered me with a 'Yes sir-ee
'I'll be sixteen next Sunday'

Marry me, my pretty little miss
Oh, marry me my honey
She answered me with a 'Yes, sir-ee
'Just go and see my Mammy'

'Way down yonder in Bangor town
Once there lived a Quaker
Every man had to own some land
If not but half an acre

Charley he's a handsome man
Oh, Charley he's a dandy
Charley he's the very man
That sold his hat for brandy

Source: 'Songs and Stories of Uncle Dave Macon' Uncle Dave Macon c/o of WSM, Nashville Tennessee 1938. Copyright Uncle Dave Macon 1938. Reprinted by the Tennessee Folklore Society.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Weevily Wheat
From: Richie
Date: 16 Dec 06 - 07:54 AM

OREGON FOLKLORE STUDIES
Name of worker William C. Haight Date February 20, 1939
Address 1225 S.W. Alder Street, Portland, Oregon.
Subject Small Town Folkways
Name and address of informant Mrs. Ingalls, Elks Building, Portland, Oregon.

Often times we would play games at these community dances. I remember one game well. The words of the song were:

Weavily Wheat

Your weavily wheat isn't fit to eat
And neither is your barley.
We'll have the best of Boston Wheat
To bake a cake for Charley.

Oh, Charley, he's a fine young man
And Charley, he's a dandy.
And Charley, loves to kiss the girls
Whenever they come handy.

Oh, don't you think he's a fine young man?
Oh, don't you think he's clever?
And don't you think that he and I
Could live in love forever?


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Subject: RE: Origins: Weevily Wheat
From: Cruiser
Date: 16 Dec 06 - 04:41 PM

Thanks for that sound clip Richie.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Weevily Wheat
From: Richie
Date: 16 Dec 06 - 10:20 PM

Thank you,

I'm adding the Mother Goose version:

Over the Water and over the lea


HNR 604 also Baring-Gould-MotherGoose #144, p. 115, "(Over the Water and over the lea)"

Over the water and over the lea,
And over the water to Charley.

Charley loves good ale and wine,
And Charley loves good brandy,
And Charley loves a pretty girl
As sweet as sugar candy.


Over the water and over the lea,
And over the water to Charley.

I'll have none of your nasty beef,
Nor I'll have none of your barley;
But I'll have some of your very best flour
To make a white cake for my Charley.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Weevily Wheat
From: Richie
Date: 16 Dec 06 - 10:45 PM


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Subject: RE: Origins: Weevily Wheat
From: Richie
Date: 16 Dec 06 - 10:47 PM

Here are two versions in the Max Hunter Collection with sound clips:

http://maxhunter.missouristate.edu/0861/index.html

http://maxhunter.missouristate.edu/1367/index.html


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Subject: RE: Origins: Weevily Wheat
From: Goose Gander
Date: 16 Dec 06 - 11:58 PM

Richie - I'm unfamiliar with the reference HNR 604, where did you get that?


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Subject: RE: Origins: Weevily Wheat
From: Richie
Date: 17 Dec 06 - 10:33 AM

Hi Michael,

Here's a link to the HNR reference:
http://mothergoosetei.com/mg/hindex.html


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Subject: RE: Origins: Weevily Wheat
From: Goose Gander
Date: 17 Dec 06 - 04:53 PM

Over the water, and over the lee,
And over the water to Charley.
Charley loves good ale and wine,
And Charley loves good brandy,
And Charley loves a pretty girl,
As sweet as sugar candy.

From Halliwell, Nursery Rhymes of England

, Collected chiefly from Oral Tradition (London: John Russell Smith, 1846), p.7


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Subject: RE: Origins: Weevily Wheat
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 17 Dec 06 - 09:16 PM

Comments and a version from Vance Randolph, Ozark Folksongs, vol. 3, no. 520.

"Several of the "Weevily Wheat" stanzas are found in Wheeler's "Mother Goose Melodies" (1878, pp. 23-24, 99). Hofer ("Children's Singing Games," 1901, p. 38) points out the relation of the figures to those of an old Scottish weaving game. Newell ("Games and Songs, 1903 pp. 80, 171) sees the game as 'an imitation of weaving."

The 'Charlie' has been related to the one in the Jacobite ballads, but it may be that because it rhymes with 'barley' is the sole reason for its use.

WEEVILY WHEAT (A)

Oh I don't want none of your weev'ly wheat,
An' I don't want none of your barley,
But I want some flour in half an hour,
To bake a cake for Charlie.

Oh Charlie he's a fine young man,
Oh Charlie he's a dandy,
Charlie likes to kiss the gals
An' he can do it handy.

The higher up the cherry tree
The riper grows the cherry,
The more you hug an' kiss a gal
The more she wants to marry.

Over the river to feed them sheep
On buckwheat cakes and barley,
We don't care what the old folks say,
Over the river to Charlie!

Grab her by the lily white hand,
An' lead her like a pigeon,
Make her dance the Weev'ly Wheat
An' lose all her religion.

Obviously assembled of disparate pieces.
Collected Missouri, 1922.
"The players form in two parallel rows, with the girls on one side and the boys on the other. The boy and the girl at the opposite ends of their respective lines swagger out to the center and swing, then return to their places, to be followed by the next couple. When all have swung, the whole party parades about the room, swinging at intervals, after which the lines are reformed and the performance repeated. Movements are sometimes introduced which makes the whole thing a sort of burlesque of the Virginia Reel."

Version C
I'd like to marry Charlie boy,
But I wouldn't marry his cousin,
I can git plenty of men like you
For forty cents a dozen.

I must have your best of wheat,
I must have your best of barley,
An' I must have your best of rye
To bake a cake for Charlie.

Version E
Mammy's gone to Shawnee town,
And Daddy's gone to Dover,
Aunt Sally wore her slippers out
Tripping Charlie over.

If you love me like I love you,
We have no time to tarry,
We'll have the old folks fixing round
For you and I to marry.

Think I'd marry the likes of you?
Think I'd marry my cousin?
Why, I can get such lads as you
At sixteen cents a dozen!

If you can get such lads as me
At sixteen cents a dozen,
You'd better buy a baker load
And ship them down to Boston.

Charlie he's a nice young man,
Charlie he's a dandy,
Charlie he's the very lad
That stole my strip-ed candy!

A late version, collected Springfield, MO, 1934; text called "Trip Charlie" 'when he was a boy'.

Version G
Weevily wheat ain't fit to eat
And neither is the barley,
I'll take some of the best of flour
To bake a cake for Charlie.

Oh Charlie he's a nice young man,
Charlie he's a dandy,
Charlie loves to kiss the girls
And feed them peppermint candy.
Collected in Arkansas, 1941.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Weevily Wheat
From: Richie
Date: 17 Dec 06 - 10:06 PM

Here's the Ballad index info:

Over the Water to Charlie
DESCRIPTION: "Come boat me o'er, come row me o'er, Come boat me o'er to Charlie." "We'll o'er the water, we'll o'er the sea, We'll o'er the water to Charlie." The singer tells her love for Charlie, laments his exile, says she would bear her sons again to die for him
AUTHOR: Robert Burns?
EARLIEST DATE: 1788 (Scots Musical Museum #187)
KEYWORDS: love Jacobites separation exile ship
HISTORICAL REFERENCES:
1720-1788 - Life of Charles Edward Stuart, "Bonnie Prince Charlie"
1745-1746 - '45 Jacobite rebellion led by Bonnie Prince Charlie
Apr 16, 1746 - Battle of Culloden. The Jacobite rebellion is crushed, most of the Highlanders slain, and Charlie forced to flee for his life.
Jun 28-29, 1746 - Aided by Flora MacDonald, and dressed as her maidservant, Charles flees from North Uist to Skye in the Hebrides.
Sep 20, 1746 - Charles finally escapes to France
FOUND IN: US(NE)
REFERENCES (2 citations):
Linscott, pp. 262-263, "Over the Water to Charlie" (1 short text, 1 tune, with one verse of this and two of the "Charlie" verses of "Weevily Wheat")
DT CHARLOVER* CHARLOV2*
Roud #729
Notes: Roud lumps this (and several other Bonnie Prince Charlie songs) with the "Weevily Wheat" family. Certainly Linscott's version is really just a "Weevily Wheat" variant which has swallowed a fragment of this song. But "Weevily Wheat" is a dancetune that mentions "Charlie" (not necessarily Charles Edward Stuart) incidentally, while this is a sure Jacobite song. As such, I separate them.
Just how much this piece owes to Burns is unknown to me; he surely had a hand in it, but it's interesting to note that there is a verse out there which he did not publish. - RBW


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Subject: RE: Origins: Weevily Wheat
From: Richie
Date: 17 Dec 06 - 11:09 PM

Hi Q,

Are all the versions you posted from Randolph?

"Comments and a version from Vance Randolph, Ozark Folksongs, vol. 3, no. 520."

This implies one version. Just wanted to make sure. Version C has no attribution.

Thanks,

Richie


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Subject: RE: Origins: Weevily Wheat
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 17 Dec 06 - 11:59 PM

All three from Randolph, I was only going to do one, then added the other two. There are six, but the other three don't add anything new. This play party song has picked up a lot along the way.
Here's another, from Missouri, 1911.

WEEVILY WHEAT

1.
Come, honey, my love, and trip with me
In the morning early,
Heart and hand, we'll take our stand;
'Tis true I love you dearly.
Chorus:
Oh, I won't have none of your weevily wheat,
And I won't have none of your barley,
But I must have some of the best of wheat
To bake a cake for Charley.
2.
For Charley He's a nice young man,
Charley he's a dandy;
Charley loves to kiss the girls
Because it comes so handy.
3.
It's over the river to see the gay widow,
It's over the river to Charley,
It's over the river to feed my sheep
And measure up the barley.
4.
If you love me like I love you,
We have no time to tarry,
We'll keep the old folks fixing round
For you and i to marry.

"In the above song, all the stanzas after the first were sung to the tune of the chorus."
Printed with score.
Mrs. L. D. Ames, The Missouri Play-Party, JAFL 1911, vol. 24, No. 93, pp. 295-315, (302-303).

Mrs. Ames says these play-parties were really dances. "The players did not dance, however, to the music of instruments, but kept time with various steps to their own singing. But they were not called dances: they were called simply parties. The better class of people in the country did not believe in dancing. Regular dances, where the music was furnished by a "fiddler," were held, for the most part, only in the homes of the rough element." .... The better class ranked dancing, in the moral scale, along with gambling and fishing on Sunday. It was not good form, and was tabooed on grounds of respectability." He could dance to the time of his own singing, however, and not be condemned and subject to 'reconversion' in church the following Sunday.

It should be added that kisses mentioned in the songs were never carried out. Her comments apply to a large area, west to Texas and north to the Dakotas.

Mrs Ames also comments that tunes were frequently familiar airs borrowed to suit the dancers' needs. "Changes were never 'called off' and the method of playing depended somewhat upon the whim of individual leaders."


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Subject: RE: Origins: Weevily Wheat
From: Richie
Date: 18 Dec 06 - 07:00 AM

Nice versions Q, good info on the play-party songs.

I know Sharp collected several versions which I have somewhere. Anyone have any versions of "Higher Up the Cherry Tree"?

Richie


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Subject: RE: Origins: Weevily Wheat
From: Richie
Date: 18 Dec 06 - 07:16 AM

Here are the related songs info from Folk Index:

Higher Up the Cherry Tree [Sh 268]
Rt - Yonder Comes a Young Man
1. Gentry, Jane. Sharp & Karpeles / English Folk Songs from the Southern Appalachians II, Oxford, Bk (1932/1917), p377/# 268 [1917/07/27]

Yonder Comes a Young Man
Rt - Higher Up the Cherry Tree
2. Griffin, Mrs. G. A.. Morris, Alton C. / Folksongs of Florida, Univ. Florida, Bk (1950), p141/# 70 [1934-39]

Yonder Comes My Pretty Little Girl
Rt - Roving Gambler
1. Sandburg, Carl / American Songbag, Harcourt Brace Jovan..., Sof (1955/1928), p313

Yonder Comes My True Love
1. Thede, Marion (ed.) / The Fiddle Book, Oak, Bk (1967), p 27b [1930s] (Yander Comes My True Love)


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Subject: RE: Origins: Weevily Wheat
From: Richie
Date: 18 Dec 06 - 07:24 AM

This was posted somewhere else. Interesting version. Seems like the one verse is 'Black chicken' (rather than 'back chicken')

THE NEXT BIG RIVER^^
From: Uncle_DaveO - PM
Date: 03 Jul 00 - 06:12 PM

The Next Big River

Cho:
The next big river I'm bound to cross,
The next big river I'm bound to cross,
Next big river I'm bound to cross,
Oh, ladies, fare thee well!


How old are you, my pretty little miss?
How old are you, my honey?
She answered me, with a "Tee-haw-haw,
I'll be sixteen next Sunday."

Cho: The next big river etc

Sugar grows on a white oak tree
The branches flow in brandy
The world is full of five-dollar bills
The girls are sweeter than candy!

Cho: The next big river etc

I miss my gal, my pretty little gal,
The gal I left behind me!
If ever I hit that trail again,
I'll keep my gal behind me.

Cho:
Next big meetin' I'll jine the band
Next big meetin' I'll jine the band
Next big meetin' I'll jine the band
Oh, ladies, fare thee well!

Over the river to feed the sheep
We'll waltz 'em like a pigeon
We'll make 'em dance the weevily wheat
And scatter their religion

Cho:

Oh, rare back, chicken, and crow for day!
Rare back, chicken, and crow for day!
Rare back, chicken, and crow for day!
Oh, ladies, fare thee well!

The higher up the cherry tree,
The riper grow the cherries!
The more ya hug and kiss the girls,
The quicker they will marry!

Cho:
Oh, we're goin' to the party, don't you wanta come along?
Goin' to the party, don't you wanta come along?
Goin' to the party, don't you wanta come along?
We'll dance till the break of day!

Sung by Tony Kraber, Mercury Label, early 50s. No copyright notice or date.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Weevily Wheat
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 18 Dec 06 - 02:38 PM

Gee whilikers! Just shows how stanzas from any song that fits the meter (and some that don't) are added by performers and callers to fill out the dance.

Rear (pronounced r'ar) back, chicken is correct. In dance calls, this means stretch back (bend back, head up, arms up), imitating a horse rearing, before you go forward in the next move. Rare is one pronunciation of r'ar, but 'rare' is a mistake by the collector- should be r'ar.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Weevily Wheat
From: Richie
Date: 18 Dec 06 - 09:28 PM

From Kuntz:

YANDER COMES MY TRUE LOVE. Old‑Time, Song/piece. USA. A Major. Standard. One part. Described by Thede as a "Yankee love song."

***

Yander comes my true love
O how do you know her
I know her by her walk and I know her by her talk
And her shoe strings flappin' on the floor.   (Thede)

***

Thede (The Fiddle Book), 1967; pg. 27.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Weevily Wheat
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 18 Dec 06 - 10:04 PM

Listen to "Pretty Girl Don't Pay Me No Mind." Seems to have the line 'Yander comes my pretty little girl.' Can't understand them.
American Memory.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Weevily Wheat
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 18 Dec 06 - 11:03 PM

Not related, but 'yander comes' reminded me of the Civil War parody:

Yonder comes a dead-broke soldier,
With empty pockets, across the moor;
Mem'ries of the past steal o'er him,
As he tumbles at the door.
etc.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Weevily Wheat
From: Richie
Date: 19 Dec 06 - 07:31 AM

CHARLIE'S SWEET- A
From EFFSA Cecil Sharp
Sung by Mrs. Laura V. Donald
Dewy Va. June 10, 1918

As I come over we trip together,
It's in the morning early.
Heart and hand I give to thee,
So true I love thee dearly.

I won't have none of your weavil wheat,
And I won't have none of your barley.
Give to me the good old wheat,
To bake a cake for Charlie.

Charlie he's a nice young man,
Charlie he's a dandy.
Charlie he's the very one
That sold his daddy's brandy.

I've got a sweet little wife,
A wife of my own choosing.
Hug her neat and kiss her sweet,
And no more go a-courting.


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